Diamond Bus Cuts Fares For Blackheath Bus Users

[Steveminor]

Redditch was a surprise to me as well especially after the fight First put up to push Rotala out of Worcester. Kidderminster I believe the returns weren't really good enough for First so they had been looking to off load it for a while.
I think market entry is becoming a virtual impossibility for new start ups now with all the requirements from aqps & hp's the returns just wouldn't justify the outlay for newcomers, unless you look at rural areas.
To be honest I think there is a political push to try & reregulate the buses to some degree thinking this will solve all the problems in the industry. For what it's worth everyone is missing a big big disruptor to the market, with the decline of the high street passenger numbers WILL decline. We are living in a more I.t based society with less people going out to shops or even going to what we would regard normal office based work. With that in mind no amount of gadgets wifi leather seats etc is going to increase passenger numbers to the levels politicians want as there aren't as many people actually travelling.
I also think the national concession pass has also had a detrimental effect on bus services as reimbursement rates are so poor that you could fill a bus & not get enough reimbursement to break even. The national transport token scheme was better in my opinion, pensioners got a set amount of tokens each month to use on ANY public transport (which they could save up to get more money each month) & the operator would simply cash them in for the equivalent cash value (minus an admin fee) this made more rural services actually cost effective to operate.

[richardjones210368]

Redditch was a surprise to me as well especially after the fight First put up to push Rotala out of Worcester. Kidderminster I believe the returns weren't really good enough for First so they had been looking to off load it for a while.
I think market entry is becoming a virtual impossibility for new start ups now with all the requirements from aqps & hp's the returns just wouldn't justify the outlay for newcomers, unless you look at rural areas.
To be honest I think there is a political push to try & reregulate the buses to some degree thinking this will solve all the problems in the industry. For what it's worth everyone is missing a big big disruptor to the market, with the decline of the high street passenger numbers WILL decline. We are living in a more I.t based society with less people going out to shops or even going to what we would regard normal office based work. With that in mind no amount of gadgets wifi leather seats etc is going to increase passenger numbers to the levels politicians want as there aren't as many people actually travelling.
I also think the national concession pass has also had a detrimental effect on bus services as reimbursement rates are so poor that you could fill a bus & not get enough reimbursement to break even. The national transport token scheme was better in my opinion, pensioners got a set amount of tokens each month to use on ANY public transport (which they could save up to get more money each month) & the operator would simply cash them in for the equivalent cash value (minus an admin fee) this made more rural services actually cost effective to operate.

I am.not a tokens fan the free bus pass which we forget wasnt Prescotts idea in Brum we have had since 1974 got my mum and dad off the road and they made full.use of it and to me it gets bums on seats off peak if they had to pay they would have got the car out so i think the industry should see it as a loss leader I do think there is a reimbursment problem rurally as is bus funding in the shires but we are heading I agree into tighter regulation the newly.elected Prime Minister has already indicated he is going to build on The Buses Act for the Metro Mayors powers with Enhanced Partnerships and QEP as the basis as the way forward and in my opinion not franchising!

[MW]

I also think the national concession pass has also had a detrimental effect on bus services as reimbursement rates are so poor that you could fill a bus & not get enough reimbursement to break even. The national transport token scheme was better in my opinion, pensioners got a set amount of tokens each month to use on ANY public transport (which they could save up to get more money each month) & the operator would simply cash them in for the equivalent cash value (minus an admin fee) this made more rural services actually cost effective to operate.

In terms of revenue with concessionary passes, how much is each pass worth on average in the West Midlands?

[richardjones210368]

In terms of revenue with concessionary passes, how much is each pass worth on average in the West Midlands?

In  2018 - 2019 in terms of concessionery bus pass holders for WMCA there were 440000 cardholders who made 54million journeys with the average reinbursment to the operator of aprox 0.96p per journey based on the cost of the scheme of £52millon.

[Steveminor]

I know some operators are getting considerably less than 96p, with one only getting 67p per pass.

[richardjones210368]

I know some operators are getting considerably less than 96p, with one only getting 67p per pass.

There is a set formula on the GOV UK website that takes in operator, fleet size, average service operations, bsog therefore it can vary from 60p to 99p. Diamond stopped taking WMT Travelcards for 50p because it reduced its average reinbursment.

[Simon Dunn]

Diamond is a group company of Rotala which is a PLC listed in a sub group of the LSE, it has share holders and less regulation than a PLC the size of NX.

Rotala does not pay a living wage, has been party to numerous public enquires and their vehicle maintenance has come under question a number of times. It has an ageing fleet of multiple operator owned vehicles in various previous operator paint jobs. If you can't get the brand right I worry what other corners are cut.

Enjoy your cheap ticket on your cheap bus driven by underpaid Drivers.

Within your comments there are a lot factual inaccuracies.  Diamond have only ever had one PI for maintenance.  This was after the First Redditch and Kidderminster acquisition.  Today Diamond are rated as a Green/Green Operator by DVSA with all statistics lower than the National average. 

In this last year with the fleet investment, the average fleet age has come down.  I do not think any operator has in percentage terms invested more.  We continue to work our work through repainting the vehicles.

Drivers wages - we are looking to change the way our drivers are paid, more towards the NX/First break structure an in doing so offered a 6% rate increase.  We are waiting on UNITE sign off.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Diamond bus is a very interesting case for me, the business has so much potential but I dont feel it's ever realised its potential. It seems to have grown too big too quickly ,& its maintenance slipped as it tried to keep up with the large influx of vehicles at such a pace.
There has been a lot of investment in the business of late with new vehicles new livery etc  unfortunately it has gotten a poor reputation & it will take a lot to turn that round.

Steve,

As you know as an Operator, and member of the Bus Alliance Board you are not supposed to comment on other operators. 

Regardless of your perception on our reputation our DVSA rating is Green/Green and our reliability the last time measured by DVSA was at 92% 

At 92% we are higher than the market standard in both the West Midlands and TfL area (around 80-85%)

If only Claribels were judged like Diamond on reliability. 


Simon

[Steveminor]

Simon

My comments are my own personal opinion & are not derogatory so O dont see your problem. I am allowed to have an opinion & voice that opinion if I so wish as are you.
In my personal opinion if you keep up this rate of investment in Rotala your reputation with the travelling public will grow & they will have confidence in your product more than the larger groups. Some of the tabloids dont help though.

Regarding Claribels performance our kpi's for reliability have not dropped below 99% in my tenure at the company & a recent api for reliabity was at 99.7%.

[Simon Dunn]

Simon

My comments are my own personal opinion & are not derogatory so O dont see your problem. I am allowed to have an opinion & voice that opinion if I so wish as are you.
In my personal opinion if you keep up this rate of investment in Rotala your reputation with the travelling public will grow & they will have confidence in your product more than the larger groups. Some of the tabloids dont help though.

Regarding Claribels performance our kpi's for reliability have not dropped below 99% in my tenure at the company & a recent api for reliabity was at 99.7%.

Steve,

Your comments are verging on slander and are factually incorrect.  You say our "maintenance has slipped".  This is derogatory about Diamond Bus and I would love to understand where the source of this comment is.     

Our last PI was around Bus service reliability operating within the TC window of tolerance.  I would imagine your 99% score is for services operating and not within the window of tolerance.  I was recently told that TfWM compliancy was at its highest rate for all operators around 99%


Simon

[Steveminor]

Simon I was talking about window of tolerance.
Maintenance is in my opinion not just about the mechanics of a bus & whether its go or not. Its cleanliness heating livery etc. Factual at one time you wouldn't see a diamond bus out of livery then with your purchase of other operators this slipped. Also with Royale & Signature brands then interior refurbs the interiors were basically spotless, from my own observations this isnt the same now so yes that has slipped. Your buses all used to be toasty warm I never caught a Diamond bus that was cold & yes from my own observations that has slipped.
As I said you are investing now obviously to try & get back to those standards. But you cant call anything slanderous when they are actually Factual or are you denying that your fleet used to be virtually perfect & that you're trying to get back to that level because even your companies comments in some press have said you're not where you want to be but you're investing to try & be the best.
As I said at one time you WERE the best.

[Trident 4194]

Simon I was talking about window of tolerance.
Maintenance is in my opinion not just about the mechanics of a bus & whether its go or not. Its cleanliness heating livery etc. Factual at one time you wouldn't see a diamond bus out of livery then with your purchase of other operators this slipped. Also with Royale & Signature brands then interior refurbs the interiors were basically spotless, from my own observations this isnt the same now so yes that has slipped. Your buses all used to be toasty warm I never caught a Diamond bus that was cold & yes from my own observations that has slipped.
As I said you are investing now obviously to try & get back to those standards. But you cant call anything slanderous when they are actually Factual or are you denying that your fleet used to be virtually perfect & that you're trying to get back to that level because even your companies comments in some press have said you're not where you want to be but you're investing to try & be the best.
As I said at one time you WERE the best.

Lack of Heating and leaky roofs are two problems i identify with diamond. They have improved again as of late, buses don't seem to be in limp mode anymore. Drivers often wrapped up in hats and scarfs because of how cold they are on some buses. Had 30809 before Christmas the handle bars were like touching ice. Ridiculously cold. I love the mellor additions.

[BK63 YWP]

Lack of Heating and leaky roofs are two problems i identify with diamond. They have improved again as of late, buses don't seem to be in limp mode anymore. Drivers often wrapped up in hats and scarfs because of how cold they are on some buses. Had 30809 before Christmas the handle bars were like touching ice. Ridiculously cold. I love the mellor additions.

Streetlites are toasty on the 226

[Simon Dunn]

Simon I was talking about window of tolerance.
Maintenance is in my opinion not just about the mechanics of a bus & whether its go or not. Its cleanliness heating livery etc. Factual at one time you wouldn't see a diamond bus out of livery then with your purchase of other operators this slipped. Also with Royale & Signature brands then interior refurbs the interiors were basically spotless, from my own observations this isnt the same now so yes that has slipped. Your buses all used to be toasty warm I never caught a Diamond bus that was cold & yes from my own observations that has slipped.
As I said you are investing now obviously to try & get back to those standards. But you cant call anything slanderous when they are actually Factual or are you denying that your fleet used to be virtually perfect & that you're trying to get back to that level because even your companies comments in some press have said you're not where you want to be but you're investing to try & be the best.
As I said at one time you WERE the best.

Steve,

I accept that standards can always be better, and I have accepted many times on this forum that our presentation is work in progress. 

With regards to your own window of tolerance claim - I don't believe you.  I certainly don't believe this is accurate for the whole of your employment.  You have quite publicly said previously that if services run 10 minutes late - you don't operate them as either way under TfWM contractual rules you don't get paid. 


Simon

[Steveminor]

Simon

Whether you believe me or not to be honest I dont really care.

But you have just agreed with the very thing I was saying about Diamond buses & as I said you're investing in your fleet so quite why your back is up I dont know & as I said just Frankly I dont care.