Q. How are the public - who may not have used a bus for a while - supposed to know if a road on a bus route is a hail and ride section?
There seems to be no way of finding out!
I live on a hail & ride section of Stagecoach 169. It's been that since the 669 started back in the 1990s. I have been dropped off on my road a few times, in both directions, since Stagecoach took over - even though it is not shown as a stop on the TfWM or Stagecoach websites.
I'm not sure I'll ask TfWM to clarify. I don't want them to announce that buses won't stop on my road any more!
Quote from: Justin Tyme on January 30, 2023, 10:11:06 PMThere seems to be no way of finding out!
Think this is bound to put people especially first time users off using buses and a good point. The worry of whether or not the bus will actually stop when you flag it down, or want to get off because the service is "hail and ride".
And on the other hand there are physical bus stops in other locations where services have been removed that have been unused for years, and with recent changes there should be a few more of these around. Ideally these should be redeployed elsewhere in more useful locations.
Thks for the replies.
I think it is just TfWM cost cutting but it does long term harm to getting people onto buses.
Completely messes up the idea to get people out of cars.
There are some roads in my area where this happens.
Is there a way to get TfWM HQ in Birmingham to stop this non sense?
Another Q. How does the bus driver know a road is hale and ride?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on January 31, 2023, 05:37:47 PMAnother Q. How does the bus driver know a road is hale and ride?
Because they should know the route they are driving.
To answer the other question. In the days of yore, where there were printed timetables, the timetables would list the route. Within this route description, it would note "these x roads are 'hail and ride'. Wait in a place where it is safe for the bus to pull over and put out a clear hand signal when the bus approaches".
As they don't print routes in the timetables any more, it is a bit harder for them to communicate that the road is hail and ride.
Quote from: Tony on January 31, 2023, 05:49:27 PMBecause they should know the route they are driving.
Agree but how did they get informed when they were route learning? Is there a document somewhere or does it show up on the bus ticket machine?
Quote from: Justin Tyme on January 30, 2023, 10:11:06 PMThere seems to be no way of finding out!
I live on a hail & ride section of Stagecoach 169. It's been that since the 669 started back in the 1990s. I have been dropped off on my road a few times, in both directions, since Stagecoach took over - even though it is not shown as a stop on the TfWM or Stagecoach websites.
I'm not sure I'll ask TfWM to clarify. I don't want them to announce that buses won't stop on my road any more!
The 169 uses Westridge Road in Billesley, which is a short walk through an alley by me to get to. The route map/timetable shows two stops, one at the junction with Brook Lane, the other at the junction with Dene Hollow (which is the closest bus stop to my home).
Yet there are no physical stop poles on this road, so to the uninitiated, one might assume that no bus services use that road, or perhaps because of the hourly frequency, if ever anyone saw a bus, they might have assumed it was just on a diversion. Admittedly I've not tried to catch the 169 yet, but then I never bothered with the 69 either when Diamond ran it.
Perhaps some of this BSIP funding could have gone towards installing some bus stop poles on these 'hail and ride' sections, even if it was just on one side of the road, with the flag showing 'And Opposite'. Can't cost that much surely!
If TfWM want to 'improve' these services, and encourage people to use them, "awareness" is a good start. (And having the buses turn up when they're supposed to, ie not missing journeys out, also helps too!)
I think one of us will have to ask TfWM to publicise the hail-and-ride sections.
However, I would wait until TfWM have updated the fixed bus stops and departure lists. Most, if not all, along the 169 route still refer to the former 69 at present.
Quote from: Stu on January 31, 2023, 07:11:00 PMThe 169 uses Westridge Road in Billesley, which is a short walk through an alley by me to get to. The route map/timetable shows two stops, one at the junction with Brook Lane, the other at the junction with Dene Hollow (which is the closest bus stop to my home).
Yet there are no physical stop poles on this road, so to the uninitiated, one might assume that no bus services use that road, or perhaps because of the hourly frequency, if ever anyone saw a bus, they might have assumed it was just on a diversion. Admittedly I've not tried to catch the 169 yet, but then I never bothered with the 69 either when Diamond ran it.
Perhaps some of this BSIP funding could have gone towards installing some bus stop poles on these 'hail and ride' sections, even if it was just on one side of the road, with the flag showing 'And Opposite'. Can't cost that much surely!
If TfWM want to 'improve' these services, and encourage people to use them, "awareness" is a good start. (And having the buses turn up when they're supposed to, ie not missing journeys out, also helps too!)
That's not the idea of Hail and ride! Putting stops up means the buses will only stop there and opposite in the way you mean. It should also be noted that stop poles have to have planning permission and can't simply be put up at random. Perhaps the solution is to put some sort of sign up stating that buses operate Hail and ride along that road.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on February 01, 2023, 11:20:40 AMThat's not the idea of Hail and ride! Putting stops up means the buses will only stop there and opposite in the way you mean. It should also be noted that stop poles have to have planning permission and can't simply be put up at random. Perhaps the solution is to put some sort of sign up stating that buses operate Hail and ride along that road.
But won't the hail and ride signs need planning permission as well? :laugh:
IMO TfWM should do the job properly and put proper stops in so there is no confusion for anyone.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on February 02, 2023, 11:08:35 AMBut won't the hail and ride signs need planning permission as well? :laugh:
IMO TfWM should do the job properly and put proper stops in so there is no confusion for anyone.
Of course. My point is that putting up stops even on one side defeats the whole idea of Hail and ride.
The main problem is on both sides. Nowhere is stating (a) what roads the bus travels on unless you look at a map and (b) what to do if there are no bus stops on the road.
Looking at a timetable from the 90s: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195515952518?hash=item2d85a8ad86:g:Pl0AAOSwGnpeKiH8
Under the route description, it states "HAIL AND RIDE, except where conventional bus stops are located". In other maps it stated which roads are hail and ride.
If they printed this information on the timetables both digitally and in paper form ( the 169 doesn't: https://tis-kml-stagecoach.s3.amazonaws.com/PdfTimetables/XLAO169.pdf ) then people would know.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on February 01, 2023, 11:20:40 AMThat's not the idea of Hail and ride! Putting stops up means the buses will only stop there and opposite in the way you mean. It should also be noted that stop poles have to have planning permission and can't simply be put up at random. Perhaps the solution is to put some sort of sign up stating that buses operate Hail and ride along that road.
There are a lot of 'hail and ride' route sections of bus routes that ended up having permanent stops installed.
The 169 timetables make no mention of being 'hail and ride' anyway, and there are 'fixed' stops listed at those points.
As I said, if BSIP funding is being provided to 'improve' this and other services, then the installation of stop poles is a relatively low cost, and if it attracts more people to use the bus service then it is of benefit.
Oh I agree, the installation of permanent bus stops should help increase the number of passengers. As you say, it would indicate to potential users that a bus service runs along that street.
Noticed today some physical bus stops are currently now in place in the Handsworth Wood area the 54, on what were at one time hail and ride section on that route.
Including one at Hamstead Hall Road and Cooppers Lane in both directions. These don't appear to have been in place at the time of the most recent google streetview May 2022 pictures. So likely have been put up in recent weeks/months.
Presumably there will be a move towards more physical stops and less of these hail and ride sections in the coming months. Which if it helps to advertise the service, and thus increase passenger services is a good thing.