Diamond Bus have announced from January 2nd 2020 hard working Blackheath Bus Users will benefit from a Sandwell & Dudley Day Product at just £2.85 with low priced 7 & 28 days tickets also avaliable. This builds on the excellent service Diamond Bus Ltd provides to Blackheath Bus Users and builds on its experience of the last 33 years. The link also provides details of Diamond Buses other fare products within the West Midlands.
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/fares-revisions-midlands/
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 27, 2019, 02:59:44 PM
Diamond Bus have announced from January 2nd 2020 hard working Blackheath Bus Users will benefit from a Sandwell & Dudley Day Product at just £2.85 with low priced 7 & 28 days tickets also avaliable. This builds on the excellent service Diamond Bus Ltd provides to Blackheath Bus Users and builds on its experience of the last 33 years. The link also provides details of Diamond Buses other fare products within the West Midlands.
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/fares-revisions-midlands/
It's for the whole West Midlands not just Blackheath.
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 27, 2019, 04:37:03 PM
It's for the whole West Midlands not just Blackheath.
The ticket I am refering to in my post is for use within Sandwell & Dudley ONLY the town of Blackheath falls partly within Sandwell & partly within Dudley I am sure other residents of the two boroughs will take advantage of it but I am at a loss how does this ticket be of benefit to the whole of The West Midlands? You Explain As I Don't Follow?
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 27, 2019, 04:42:00 PM
The ticket I am refering to in my post is for use within Sandwell & ONLY the town of Blackheath falls partly within Sandwell & partly within Dudley I am sure other residents of the two boroughs will take advantage of it but I am at a loss how does this ticket be of benefit to the whole of The West Midlands? You Explain As I Don't Follow?
Sorry I didn't see that part. Might need to buy some glasses :D
Quote from: Busboy105 on December 27, 2019, 05:36:44 PM
Sorry I didn't see that part. Might need to buy some glasses :D
Ok no.probs Cheers
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 27, 2019, 04:42:00 PM
The ticket I am refering to in my post is for use within Sandwell & Dudley ONLY the town of Blackheath falls partly within Sandwell & partly within Dudley I am sure other residents of the two boroughs will take advantage of it but I am at a loss how does this ticket be of benefit to the whole of The West Midlands? You Explain As I Don't Follow?
Blackheath isn't Dudley? Nor is Rowley Regis. It falls fully in Sandwell. It's a bit of an oddball place like Halesowen......
Quote from: richie on December 27, 2019, 08:11:33 PM
Blackheath isn't Dudley? Nor is Rowley Regis. It falls fully in Sandwell. It's a bit of an oddball place like Halesowen......
Having lived in Blackheath 51 years you will find the parish church falls under Dudley MBC in Long Lane as does the side of Gorsty Hill I grew up on as for Rowley Regis it hasnt exisited since 1974. Vicarage Rd, New John St & Beech Ave are in Dudley but Half of Halesowen St & half of Gorsty Hill is in Sandwell the shops of Blackheath are in Sandwell but the Parish Church is in Dudley so then how do you work out all of Blackheath is in Sandwell when St Pauls The Parish Church for Blackheath falls under Dudley MBC ?
Parish of Blackheath... the church is in Halesowen. Blackheath is in Sandwell.
Back to topic, I hope you enjoy your cut price diamond ticket but personally they couldn't pay me enough to ride in one of their buses!
Also as an open advocate as local jobs perhaps you should consider the living wage NXWM pay to thousands of people in the West Midlands. Your view on a bus route does not make the operator useless as in your view. You think the 13A is brill, it is the same operator.
Quote from: richie on December 27, 2019, 08:44:51 PM
Parish of Blackheath... the church is in Halesowen. Blackheath is in Sandwell.
Back to topic, I hope you enjoy your cut price diamond ticket but personally they couldn't pay me enough to ride in one of their buses!
Also as an open advocate as local jobs perhaps you should consider the living wage NXWM pay to thousands of people in the West Midlands. Your view on a bus route does not make the operator useless as in your view. You think the 13A is brill, it is the same operator.
Ok Richie I respect your views on Diamond Bus just as a Sandwell resident now I respect one of its biggest employers the said Diamond Bus whose corporate hq's are in Sandwell and are quoted on the AIM unlike Sandwells other bus company which is a PLC and only interested in the dividends of its shareholders. I think you will find the council ward of Blackheath falls in Sandwell but the actual town falls half between the boroughs of Sandwell & Dudley a town is based on its historical parish boundrys not the whims of politicans and thats not my idea its Henry VIII and going on the old bird on the telly on Wednesday at 3pm I am pretty sure that still applies otherwise I would not have lived in Blackheath in Dudley MBC on Gorsty Hill & crossed the road into Sandwell MBC to Highfields School would I? Part of Blackheath is in Sandwell & part of it is in Dudley & that is a fact & whilst I have no complaints against the 13A I certainly would not call it or its operator "brill"!
Blackheath IS in Sandwell? Since when has Blackheath not been in Sandwell, it comes under Rowley after all which is a part of Sandwell...
Quote from: Jack on December 27, 2019, 09:24:53 PM
Blackheath IS in Sandwell? Since when has Blackheath not been in Sandwell, it comes under Rowley after all which is a part of Sandwell...
Wrong
@Jack only part of Blackheath is in Sandwell the other part is in Dudley everyone makes that mistake.The council ward of Blackheath has only been part of part of Sandwell since 1974 the town itself is split over two metroplitan boroughs and before 1974 it was half in Staffordshire & half Worcestershire you are mixing the current council ward up with the towns actual parish of St Pauls boundrys which actually define it as a town & part of it is in Sandwell the other part in Dudley while Rowley is a completly different place where I was critisend at St Giles while Rowley Regis hasnt exisited at all since 1974!
Diamond is a group company of Rotala which is a PLC listed in a sub group of the LSE, it has share holders and less regulation than a PLC the size of NX.
Rotala does not pay a living wage, has been party to numerous public enquires and their vehicle maintenance has come under question a number of times. It has an ageing fleet of multiple operator owned vehicles in various previous operator paint jobs. If you can't get the brand right I worry what other corners are cut.
Enjoy your cheap ticket on your cheap bus driven by underpaid Drivers.
Diamond bus is a very interesting case for me, the business has so much potential but I dont feel it's ever realised its potential. It seems to have grown too big too quickly ,& its maintenance slipped as it tried to keep up with the large influx of vehicles at such a pace.
There has been a lot of investment in the business of late with new vehicles new livery etc unfortunately it has gotten a poor reputation & it will take a lot to turn that round.
Quote from: richie on December 27, 2019, 09:54:03 PM
Diamond is a group company of Rotala which is a PLC listed in a sub group of the LSE, it has share holders and less regulation than a PLC the size of NX.
Rotala does not pay a living wage, has been party to numerous public enquires and their vehicle maintenance has come under question a number of times. It has an ageing fleet of multiple operator owned vehicles in various previous operator paint jobs. If you can't get the brand right I worry what other corners are cut.
Enjoy your cheap ticket on your cheap bus driven by underpaid Drivers.
Yes Ritchie as I said Diamond Bus is lisited in the AIM - Aliternative Investment Market as you also quite rightly also say as Rotala PLC & is a sub group of the LSE I am a fully qualified accountant I understand how the City works but it is kind of you to qualify matters for others. As far as I am aware Rotala PLC has met all its statutory regulartory requirements unless you can advise otherwise & thank you also for your good wishes about Diamonds excellent new range of cut priced tickets I am sure many people in Blackheath will take advantage of them from 2nd Jan 2020 I personally use an Nbus ticket on Swift to take advantage of the first rate service operated by Diamond Bus Ltd and other operators when required.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 27, 2019, 10:05:57 PM
Diamond bus is a very interesting case for me, the business has so much potential but I dont feel it's ever realised its potential. It seems to have grown too big too quickly ,& its maintenance slipped as it tried to keep up with the large influx of vehicles at such a pace.
There has been a lot of investment in the business of late with new vehicles new livery etc unfortunately it has gotten a poor reputation & it will take a lot to turn that round.
Fair points
@Steveminor I have followed the company for 33 years and it has had its ups and down the trouble is like your company its operating in an oligopoly market with huge barriers of entry its current net returns on its Balance Sheet arent bad at all & I was very impressed on the level of capital it raised from the city to fund its expansion and fully agree Diamond Bus is very intersting case to follow lets face it who ever thought they would buyout First Midland Red in Redditch & Kidderminster well not when I worked at MRW anyway.
Redditch was a surprise to me as well especially after the fight First put up to push Rotala out of Worcester. Kidderminster I believe the returns weren't really good enough for First so they had been looking to off load it for a while.
I think market entry is becoming a virtual impossibility for new start ups now with all the requirements from aqps & hp's the returns just wouldn't justify the outlay for newcomers, unless you look at rural areas.
To be honest I think there is a political push to try & reregulate the buses to some degree thinking this will solve all the problems in the industry. For what it's worth everyone is missing a big big disruptor to the market, with the decline of the high street passenger numbers WILL decline. We are living in a more I.t based society with less people going out to shops or even going to what we would regard normal office based work. With that in mind no amount of gadgets wifi leather seats etc is going to increase passenger numbers to the levels politicians want as there aren't as many people actually travelling.
I also think the national concession pass has also had a detrimental effect on bus services as reimbursement rates are so poor that you could fill a bus & not get enough reimbursement to break even. The national transport token scheme was better in my opinion, pensioners got a set amount of tokens each month to use on ANY public transport (which they could save up to get more money each month) & the operator would simply cash them in for the equivalent cash value (minus an admin fee) this made more rural services actually cost effective to operate.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 27, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
Redditch was a surprise to me as well especially after the fight First put up to push Rotala out of Worcester. Kidderminster I believe the returns weren't really good enough for First so they had been looking to off load it for a while.
I think market entry is becoming a virtual impossibility for new start ups now with all the requirements from aqps & hp's the returns just wouldn't justify the outlay for newcomers, unless you look at rural areas.
To be honest I think there is a political push to try & reregulate the buses to some degree thinking this will solve all the problems in the industry. For what it's worth everyone is missing a big big disruptor to the market, with the decline of the high street passenger numbers WILL decline. We are living in a more I.t based society with less people going out to shops or even going to what we would regard normal office based work. With that in mind no amount of gadgets wifi leather seats etc is going to increase passenger numbers to the levels politicians want as there aren't as many people actually travelling.
I also think the national concession pass has also had a detrimental effect on bus services as reimbursement rates are so poor that you could fill a bus & not get enough reimbursement to break even. The national transport token scheme was better in my opinion, pensioners got a set amount of tokens each month to use on ANY public transport (which they could save up to get more money each month) & the operator would simply cash them in for the equivalent cash value (minus an admin fee) this made more rural services actually cost effective to operate.
I am.not a tokens fan the free bus pass which we forget wasnt Prescotts idea in Brum we have had since 1974 got my mum and dad off the road and they made full.use of it and to me it gets bums on seats off peak if they had to pay they would have got the car out so i think the industry should see it as a loss leader I do think there is a reimbursment problem rurally as is bus funding in the shires but we are heading I agree into tighter regulation the newly.elected Prime Minister has already indicated he is going to build on The Buses Act for the Metro Mayors powers with Enhanced Partnerships and QEP as the basis as the way forward and in my opinion not franchising!
Quote from: Steveminor on December 27, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
I also think the national concession pass has also had a detrimental effect on bus services as reimbursement rates are so poor that you could fill a bus & not get enough reimbursement to break even. The national transport token scheme was better in my opinion, pensioners got a set amount of tokens each month to use on ANY public transport (which they could save up to get more money each month) & the operator would simply cash them in for the equivalent cash value (minus an admin fee) this made more rural services actually cost effective to operate.
In terms of revenue with concessionary passes, how much is each pass worth on average in the West Midlands?
Quote from: MW on December 28, 2019, 02:12:19 AM
In terms of revenue with concessionary passes, how much is each pass worth on average in the West Midlands?
In 2018 - 2019 in terms of concessionery bus pass holders for WMCA there were 440000 cardholders who made 54million journeys with the average reinbursment to the operator of aprox 0.96p per journey based on the cost of the scheme of £52millon.
I know some operators are getting considerably less than 96p, with one only getting 67p per pass.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 28, 2019, 07:43:48 AM
I know some operators are getting considerably less than 96p, with one only getting 67p per pass.
There is a set formula on the GOV UK website that takes in operator, fleet size, average service operations, bsog therefore it can vary from 60p to 99p. Diamond stopped taking WMT Travelcards for 50p because it reduced its average reinbursment.
Quote from: richie on December 27, 2019, 09:54:03 PM
Diamond is a group company of Rotala which is a PLC listed in a sub group of the LSE, it has share holders and less regulation than a PLC the size of NX.
Rotala does not pay a living wage, has been party to numerous public enquires and their vehicle maintenance has come under question a number of times. It has an ageing fleet of multiple operator owned vehicles in various previous operator paint jobs. If you can't get the brand right I worry what other corners are cut.
Enjoy your cheap ticket on your cheap bus driven by underpaid Drivers.
Within your comments there are a lot factual inaccuracies. Diamond have only ever had one PI for maintenance. This was after the First Redditch and Kidderminster acquisition. Today Diamond are rated as a Green/Green Operator by DVSA with all statistics lower than the National average.
In this last year with the fleet investment, the average fleet age has come down. I do not think any operator has in percentage terms invested more. We continue to work our work through repainting the vehicles.
Drivers wages - we are looking to change the way our drivers are paid, more towards the NX/First break structure an in doing so offered a 6% rate increase. We are waiting on UNITE sign off.
Simon
Quote from: Steveminor on December 27, 2019, 10:05:57 PM
Diamond bus is a very interesting case for me, the business has so much potential but I dont feel it's ever realised its potential. It seems to have grown too big too quickly ,& its maintenance slipped as it tried to keep up with the large influx of vehicles at such a pace.
There has been a lot of investment in the business of late with new vehicles new livery etc unfortunately it has gotten a poor reputation & it will take a lot to turn that round.
Steve,
As you know as an Operator, and member of the Bus Alliance Board you are not supposed to comment on other operators.
Regardless of your perception on our reputation our DVSA rating is Green/Green and our reliability the last time measured by DVSA was at 92%
At 92% we are higher than the market standard in both the West Midlands and TfL area (around 80-85%)
If only Claribels were judged like Diamond on reliability.
Simon
Simon
My comments are my own personal opinion & are not derogatory so O dont see your problem. I am allowed to have an opinion & voice that opinion if I so wish as are you.
In my personal opinion if you keep up this rate of investment in Rotala your reputation with the travelling public will grow & they will have confidence in your product more than the larger groups. Some of the tabloids dont help though.
Regarding Claribels performance our kpi's for reliability have not dropped below 99% in my tenure at the company & a recent api for reliabity was at 99.7%.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 28, 2019, 09:55:15 AM
Simon
My comments are my own personal opinion & are not derogatory so O dont see your problem. I am allowed to have an opinion & voice that opinion if I so wish as are you.
In my personal opinion if you keep up this rate of investment in Rotala your reputation with the travelling public will grow & they will have confidence in your product more than the larger groups. Some of the tabloids dont help though.
Regarding Claribels performance our kpi's for reliability have not dropped below 99% in my tenure at the company & a recent api for reliabity was at 99.7%.
Steve,
Your comments are verging on slander and are factually incorrect. You say our "maintenance has slipped". This is derogatory about Diamond Bus and I would love to understand where the source of this comment is.
Our last PI was around Bus service reliability operating within the TC window of tolerance. I would imagine your 99% score is for services operating and not within the window of tolerance. I was recently told that TfWM compliancy was at its highest rate for all operators around 99%
Simon
Simon I was talking about window of tolerance.
Maintenance is in my opinion not just about the mechanics of a bus & whether its go or not. Its cleanliness heating livery etc. Factual at one time you wouldn't see a diamond bus out of livery then with your purchase of other operators this slipped. Also with Royale & Signature brands then interior refurbs the interiors were basically spotless, from my own observations this isnt the same now so yes that has slipped. Your buses all used to be toasty warm I never caught a Diamond bus that was cold & yes from my own observations that has slipped.
As I said you are investing now obviously to try & get back to those standards. But you cant call anything slanderous when they are actually Factual or are you denying that your fleet used to be virtually perfect & that you're trying to get back to that level because even your companies comments in some press have said you're not where you want to be but you're investing to try & be the best.
As I said at one time you WERE the best.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 28, 2019, 11:06:17 AM
Simon I was talking about window of tolerance.
Maintenance is in my opinion not just about the mechanics of a bus & whether its go or not. Its cleanliness heating livery etc. Factual at one time you wouldn't see a diamond bus out of livery then with your purchase of other operators this slipped. Also with Royale & Signature brands then interior refurbs the interiors were basically spotless, from my own observations this isnt the same now so yes that has slipped. Your buses all used to be toasty warm I never caught a Diamond bus that was cold & yes from my own observations that has slipped.
As I said you are investing now obviously to try & get back to those standards. But you cant call anything slanderous when they are actually Factual or are you denying that your fleet used to be virtually perfect & that you're trying to get back to that level because even your companies comments in some press have said you're not where you want to be but you're investing to try & be the best.
As I said at one time you WERE the best.
Lack of Heating and leaky roofs are two problems i identify with diamond. They have improved again as of late, buses don't seem to be in limp mode anymore. Drivers often wrapped up in hats and scarfs because of how cold they are on some buses. Had 30809 before Christmas the handle bars were like touching ice. Ridiculously cold. I love the mellor additions.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on December 28, 2019, 11:16:06 AM
Lack of Heating and leaky roofs are two problems i identify with diamond. They have improved again as of late, buses don't seem to be in limp mode anymore. Drivers often wrapped up in hats and scarfs because of how cold they are on some buses. Had 30809 before Christmas the handle bars were like touching ice. Ridiculously cold. I love the mellor additions.
Streetlites are toasty on the 226
Quote from: Steveminor on December 28, 2019, 11:06:17 AM
Simon I was talking about window of tolerance.
Maintenance is in my opinion not just about the mechanics of a bus & whether its go or not. Its cleanliness heating livery etc. Factual at one time you wouldn't see a diamond bus out of livery then with your purchase of other operators this slipped. Also with Royale & Signature brands then interior refurbs the interiors were basically spotless, from my own observations this isnt the same now so yes that has slipped. Your buses all used to be toasty warm I never caught a Diamond bus that was cold & yes from my own observations that has slipped.
As I said you are investing now obviously to try & get back to those standards. But you cant call anything slanderous when they are actually Factual or are you denying that your fleet used to be virtually perfect & that you're trying to get back to that level because even your companies comments in some press have said you're not where you want to be but you're investing to try & be the best.
As I said at one time you WERE the best.
Steve,
I accept that standards can always be better, and I have accepted many times on this forum that our presentation is work in progress.
With regards to your own window of tolerance claim - I don't believe you. I certainly don't believe this is accurate for the whole of your employment. You have quite publicly said previously that if services run 10 minutes late - you don't operate them as either way under TfWM contractual rules you don't get paid.
Simon
Simon
Whether you believe me or not to be honest I dont really care.
But you have just agreed with the very thing I was saying about Diamond buses & as I said you're investing in your fleet so quite why your back is up I dont know & as I said just Frankly I dont care.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 28, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
Simon
Whether you believe me or not to be honest I dont really care.
But you have just agreed with the very thing I was saying about Diamond buses & as I said you're investing in your fleet so quite why your back is up I dont know & as I said just Frankly I dont care.
Steve
That's refreshing - I thought I might have hurt your feelings!
I have never disagreed that our presentation could be better. I disagree with anyone who says that we operate vehicles, that are unfit for service in line with the DVSA categorisation of defects.
Simon
Simon
Thought it was the other way around lol because not even my ex wife can hurt my feelings lol.
To be clear though I was never saying anything about pg9 defects just that standards had slipped from where they were. That as I pointed out was due most probably to the speed that Rotala has been growing.
I still dont believe that Diamond has ever fully realised it's full potential you are quite a force in the black country & a match for nxwm & it was looking that you were on the verge of Cracking Birmingham with the 97 37 & 17 as well as the 50 & 16, but then it contracted, probably due to nx dominance but with the will & money with Diamonds size I honestly think you could have broken into the Birmingham market more..
Anyway have a good new year.
Quote from: Steveminor on December 28, 2019, 05:36:46 PM
Simon
Thought it was the other way around lol because not even my ex wife can hurt my feelings lol.
To be clear though I was never saying anything about pg9 defects just that standards had slipped from where they were. That as I pointed out was due most probably to the speed that Rotala has been growing.
I still dont believe that Diamond has ever fully realised it's full potential you are quite a force in the black country & a match for nxwm & it was looking that you were on the verge of Cracking Birmingham with the 97 37 & 17 as well as the 50 & 16, but then it contracted, probably due to nx dominance but with the will & money with Diamonds size I honestly think you could have broken into the Birmingham market more..
Anyway have a good new year.
Well whatever anyone thinks of Diamond Bus Limited I have used the Diamond 4H today to do my lane swiming and cannot find any fault in the operations of Simon Dunns Diamond Bus we in Blackheath are greatfull for the professional operation they provide us and as this thread was created for this I am sure the good folk of Blackheath will enjoy and use the new low fares they are introducing on the 2nd January and will find them most welcome.
Quote from: richardjones210368 on December 28, 2019, 09:40:20 PM
Well whatever anyone thinks of Diamond Bus Limited I have used the Diamond 4H today to do my lane swiming and cannot find any fault in the operations of Simon Dunns Diamond Bus we in Blackheath are greatfull for the professional operation they provide us and as this thread was created for this I am sure the good folk of Blackheath will enjoy and use the new low fares they are introducing on the 2nd January and will find them most welcome.
You're speaking for the entirety of Blackheath now ? (Or just the opinions of the voices in your head)
Perhaps Diamond will run a competitive service for the X8 to Birmingham for you ???
Quote from: pndriver on December 29, 2019, 06:08:00 PM
You're speaking for the entirety of Blackheath now ? (Or just the opinions of the voices in your head)
Perhaps Diamond will run a competitive service for the X8 to Birmingham for you ???
Very few people in Blackheath do not know me and why would Diamond Bus want to run an X8 they only operate on routes where they can offer a quality service and a value for money service whats the point of a Diamond Bus service from Blackheath to Birmingham when most use West Midlands Railway you really do not understand the ecconomics of a bus company do you perhaps that is why you are a Bus Driver & I am an Accountant!
Well having lived just of new John Street since 1993 I do not know you!
Quote from: midlandred2003 on December 29, 2019, 07:32:48 PM
Well having lived just of new John Street since 1993 I do not know you!
How odd you were obviously never a regular on the 610 later the 236 when it ran up New John St & Beach Ave or Malt Mills 231 today then!