Morning all,
I know this topic has been covered a lot - and i know that there is only a limited amount of resources. So i don't really have the answers. I just want to share with you my experiences and drastic measures that i'm now having to take in terms of my daily bus journey to work.
My daily morning commute is the 55 from Kingshurst to Nechells (Just past Saltley Gate). This is a daily weekday journey i've been making for over 10 years. During that time i've seen various changes of vehicle allocation & routing - even changes in the bus depot that operates the route. The biggest change though for me is increase in patronage along the Washwood Heath Road.
The huge number of people trying to board in the morning rush hour, coupled with the reduction in bus services that operate along this corridor (loss of route 70 and route 72 never replaced) has now resulted in large amounts of passengers (15-20) standing on many single deck services.
The majority of these people that board at these stops are students, that all seem to have bulky rucksacks/backpacks on their backs with no intention of removing them, which just adds to the problem. The other major issue is that all standing passengers want to stand at the very front of the bus, within 2-3 feet of the driver, rather than spreading themselves equally along the aisle. This means that it is becoming impossible to fight my way through the bus to disembark at my stop, with a situation last week where i actually missed my stop because the driver could not see that i was trying to get through the masses of people in order to get off. When mentioning these issues to drivers, they point to notices on vehicles conveying passenger numbers regarding safe standing etc. In this often over-zealous health & safety world that we live in, how can these overcrowding issues be acceptable?
On 2 occasions within the last 10 days i've been forced to take the most drastic measure possible, by leaving the bus through the emergency exit at the rear. I don't condone this, but i really have no alternative to leaving a ridiculously overcrowded bus.
Drivers should be more forceful in getting passengers to move down the bus, so that those who are already on board are able to get off.
Quote from: markcf83 on November 16, 2018, 12:09:46 PM
Drivers should be more forceful in getting passengers to move down the bus, so that those who are already on board are able to get off.
I've been on pleanty of 11's where there's no more room for passengers, but the drivers don't seem to have that much control over overcrowding, the passengers don't listen and won't get of or move down when the drivers ask, what else do you expect them to do.
I regularly have to force and shove to get if an 11C at the Swan in the AM peak through crowds gathered on the stairs and bottom deck, eg this morning on 4294.
The 72 was replaced by the 55/94, few ever used it to Drews Lane, likely why it was never replaced.
The only thing that they can do is not stop or stop at a distance from where the passengers are waiting to unload only.
So glad after 20 years in the past I will never use a bus on that corridor again, even when I come home. Uber all the way if I don't want to drive . In their defence I used the x12 once but walk takes away the benefit
The issue here is they've taken buses away but haven't compensated by increasing the frequency on the remaining routes
Unfortunately the X12 hasn't taken all the Chelmsley Wood / Castle Brom to city traffic so the 94 has a fair load already when it gets to Washwood Heath
Similar problems elsewhere... 52 replaced by 952 with no improvement to frequency of 33 or 51.
98 replaced by X20 leaving the 63 to try to cope between Selly Oak and Longbridge.
This has been the case for years in Weoley Castle, with the X64, the 29 which was messed about with repeatedly, and now the ☓21. But unless you live on one of NX's favourite routes they don't care.
Quote from: Kevin on November 16, 2018, 01:49:38 PM
The issue here is they've taken buses away but haven't compensated by increasing the frequency on the remaining routes
Unfortunately the X12 hasn't taken all the Chelmsley Wood / Castle Brom to city traffic so the 94 has a fair load already when it gets to Washwood Heath
The X12 and 94 are very different routes and serve different areas throughout the route, it was never going to take all of the passengers from Chelmsley/Castle Brom areas to the City Centre.
eg - the X12 doesn't serve the area where Morrisons is on the Chester Road.
To be fair I imagine a lot of these routes must run next to empty in the off peak hours and to make them profitable, squash people on like peas in a pod at rush. Same on the tubes.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 16, 2018, 05:29:49 PM
To be fair I imagine a lot of these routes must run next to empty in the off peak hours and to make them protisble squash people on like peas in a pod at rush. Same on the tubes.
The 11, 94 and 55 are usually relatively busy for most of the day and always carry decent loads.
If that's the case no excuse then.
Quote from: MK on November 16, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
The other major issue is that all standing passengers want to stand at the very front of the bus, within 2-3 feet of the driver, rather than spreading themselves equally along the aisle. This means that it is becoming impossible to fight my way through the bus to disembark at my stop, with a situation last week where i actually missed my stop because the driver could not see that i was trying to get through the masses of people in order to get off. When mentioning these issues to drivers, they point to notices on vehicles conveying passenger numbers regarding safe standing etc.
I agree completely, and I've encountered similar myself, this isn't restricted to the Washwood Heath Road corridor.
Just this evening, I fought myself onto a crowded 2 on the Stratford Road in Sparkbrook. Despite the large crowd standing in the gangway, I managed to get to the staircase and half the seats upstairs were empty!
Some people are just so anti-social that they really don't want to sit next to another fellow human being, so will leave seats empty and will then stand usually in the most awkward part of the bus. The thing then is that it only takes a couple of people to do this, then the next few passengers that get on end up standing there too, because they falsely believe there is nowhere to sit.
Claribels 94s are also full at rush hour especially from city centre in the evening.
On a different note the X12 can be slower than the 94 sometimes to Castle Bromwich.
Quote from: MK on November 16, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
Morning all,
I know this topic has been covered a lot - and i know that there is only a limited amount of resources. So i don't really have the answers. I just want to share with you my experiences and drastic measures that i'm now having to take in terms of my daily bus journey to work.
My daily morning commute is the 55 from Kingshurst to Nechells (Just past Saltley Gate). This is a daily weekday journey i've been making for over 10 years. During that time i've seen various changes of vehicle allocation & routing - even changes in the bus depot that operates the route. The biggest change though for me is increase in patronage along the Washwood Heath Road.
The huge number of people trying to board in the morning rush hour, coupled with the reduction in bus services that operate along this corridor (loss of route 70 and route 72 never replaced) has now resulted in large amounts of passengers (15-20) standing on many single deck services.
The majority of these people that board at these stops are students, that all seem to have bulky rucksacks/backpacks on their backs with no intention of removing them, which just adds to the problem. The other major issue is that all standing passengers want to stand at the very front of the bus, within 2-3 feet of the driver, rather than spreading themselves equally along the aisle. This means that it is becoming impossible to fight my way through the bus to disembark at my stop, with a situation last week where i actually missed my stop because the driver could not see that i was trying to get through the masses of people in order to get off. When mentioning these issues to drivers, they point to notices on vehicles conveying passenger numbers regarding safe standing etc. In this often over-zealous health & safety world that we live in, how can these overcrowding issues be acceptable?
On 2 occasions within the last 10 days i've been forced to take the most drastic measure possible, by leaving the bus through the emergency exit at the rear. I don't condone this, but i really have no alternative to leaving a ridiculously overcrowded bus.
Could frequent 94Es between Fox & Goose and Birmingham alleviate the overcrowding? Or the 55 generally an overcrowded route?
Quote from: B.C Driver on November 16, 2018, 03:26:01 PM
Similar problems elsewhere... 52 replaced by 952 with no improvement to frequency of 33 or 51.
98 replaced by X20 leaving the 63 to try to cope between Selly Oak and Longbridge.
You can add the 6 to that. The 5 was rerouted, X20 & 31 curtailed, leaving the 6 to carry the burden between College Road and Birmingham, on a regular frequency, but with mostly single deckers
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 16, 2018, 07:42:14 PM
You can add the 6 to that. The 5 was rerouted, X20 & 31 curtailed, leaving the 6 to carry the burden between College Road and Birmingham, on a regular frequency, but with mostly single deckers
Even at peak times, the X20 carried few passengers due to its limited-stop nature, so its loss has had no major impact in my opinion.
The 5 now carries the passengers who would have previously caught the 2 as far as Showell Green Lane, while the rerouting of the 2 has eased the overcrowding of the 3 for passengers heading for Stoney Lane. (Apart from when the unfortunate single deck appears on those routes)
A number of double decks continue to be used on the 4, 4A and 6, however it does get frustrating to see rammed full single-decks on those routes closely followed by half-empty double-decks.
In a perfect world, with buses running as scheduled and no traffic delays, the timetabling arrangements probably work for the Stratford Road corridor, but it only needs a few minutes delay for everything to go off-kilter, which sees passengers boarding the first bus that turns up in the city centre, even if they are only going as far as Sparkbrook. I will gladly fight my way onto a rammed 2 or 3, because I know the bus will be almost empty after a few more stops; I don't see why I should give up and wait for the next one just because I'm travelling further along the route.
Quote from: Stu on November 16, 2018, 08:32:31 PM
Even at peak times, the X20 carried few passengers due to its limited-stop nature, so its loss has had no major impact in my opinion.
The 5 now carries the passengers who would have previously caught the 2 as far as Showell Green Lane, while the rerouting of the 2 has eased the overcrowding of the 3 for passengers heading for Stoney Lane. (Apart from when the unfortunate single deck appears on those routes)
A number of double decks continue to be used on the 4, 4A and 6, however it does get frustrating to see rammed full single-decks on those routes closely followed by half-empty double-decks.
In a perfect world, with buses running as scheduled and no traffic delays, the timetabling arrangements probably work for the Stratford Road corridor, but it only needs a few minutes delay for everything to go off-kilter, which sees passengers boarding the first bus that turns up in the city centre, even if they are only going as far as Sparkbrook. I will gladly fight my way onto a rammed 2 or 3, because I know the bus will be almost empty after a few more stops; I don't see why I should give up and wait for the next one just because I'm travelling further along the route.
I thought as much, I just tried to add more weight to my argument ;D.
Would you say the 6 is allocated a suitable amount of deckers? I see the route everyday, and rarely see deckers
I'm glad the Birchfield Road has been picked up here, since the 52/52A went back to the 952, the 33 and 51 constantly are full. The 51 (heading towards city) is usually half full before it even gets to Birchfield Road. No frequency increase that left the routes to be full all time.
Quote from: Stu on November 16, 2018, 08:32:31 PM
A number of double decks continue to be used on the 4, 4A and 6, however it does get frustrating to see rammed full single-decks on those routes closely followed by half-empty double-decks.
The 4 is really struggling between Solihull and Acocks Green, and I've regularly been on buses at 6:00 PM where there is no room to get on, and people have to wait for 30 minutes for the next bus. And then I see a double decker going towards Solihull nearly empty...
Beginning to sound like these reviews are really driving up profits at least
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 17, 2018, 05:41:33 PM
Beginning to sound like these reviews are really driving up profits at least
Some places have certainly benefited from improved services and frequencies, others not so much.
A few examples:
Bromford - now have regular double deckers fast to the City Centre, on the X12, which always seems well used, ontop of that there's also the X70.
Chelmsley to Solihull via Airport - Has seen a big frequency increase, from every 30 (i'm sure the 966 was every 30 minutes) to every 20 minutes over the 966.
Birmingham Uni/QE to Birmingham City Centre - It has been said by some that theses services are unreliable which would cause problems at the outlying areas of the routes (Eg Woodgate), but in terms of the frequency over the past 6 years, this section of the route between Birmingham City Centre and the QE has gone from a every 20 (?) minute 636 using B6LE (midi buses), to now where when i'm in the City Centre there is an X20/X21/X22 every few minutes and the X20/X22 are now platinum E400 MMC (double deckers).
Coventry Road - X1/X2 - There are many more fast buses along the Coventry Road now, than if you were to go back 10 years.
80/A - Now operates at double the frequency it used to a few years ago.
Quote from: 2206 on November 17, 2018, 05:53:45 PM
Some places have benefitted certainly benefited from improved services and frequencies, others not so much.
A few examples:
Bromford - now have regular double deckers fast to the City Centre, on the X12, which always seems well used, ontop of that there's also the X70.
Chelmsley to Solihull via Airport - Has seen a big frequency increase, from every 30 (i'm sure the 966 was every 30 minutes) to every 20 minutes over the 966.
Birmingham Uni/QE to Birmingham - It has been said by some that theses services are unreliable which would cause problems at the outlying areas of the routes (Eg Woodgate), but in terms of the frequency over the past 6 years, this section of the route between Birmingham and the QE it has gone from a every 20 (?) minute 636 using B6LE (midi buses), to now where when i'm in the City Centre there is an X20/X21/X22 every few minutes and the X20/X22 are now platinum E400 MMC (double deckers).
Coventry Road - X1/X2 - There are many more fast buses along the Coventry Road now, than if you were to go back 10 years.
80/A - Now operates at double the frequency it used to a few years ago.
Focusing on only the positives I see. 99 used to be every 20 minutes now 19 is every 30 mins. 48 had no frequency upgrade to compensate this.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 17, 2018, 07:05:26 PM
Focusing on only the positives I see. 99 used to be every 20 minutes now 19 is every 30 mins. 48 had no frequency upgrade to compensate this.
Extending the 48 increased the former 84 frequency between the QE and Hawkesley so they get double the buses there all day. However, the 48 does now seem on track to cover every part of the West Midlands the route is so long! An extension from Northfield to London is probably on the cards!
I agree with the 99 though, whilst the 19 goes further outbound than the 99 did to Dudley, I think NXWM missed a trick not running it to Merry Hill instead as would have replaced the 004 too.
Positive for Walsall - Birmingham limited stop
Service 951 cut down to peak time only in 2005.
Service X51 started September 2007 just basic 20 minutes frequency daytime. 951 still running peaks.
Saturday service introduced in 2008 and running peaks replacing 951.
Service X51 now running every 10 minutes with early evening journeys and a Sunday service.
Despite being an increased 8 minutes peak time frequency this route can get severely overcrowded.
For the Washwood Heath Road i'd like to see:
55 - as current route, every 10mins
93 - Birmingham to Chelmsley Wood via Kingshurst (as 94 to Morrison's, then Chester Road, Kingshurst Estate, Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road), every 10 mins
94 - as current route, every 10 mins
I'd also add 70, Birmingham to Castle Bromwich Morrisons (as 94 to Drews Lane, then as X70 to Parkfield Estate, Water Orton Road, green Lane, hurst lane North to Morrisons) every 30 mins.
In turn I would accelerate X70 by operating along Bromford Road (currently unserved, between Bromford and Hunters Moon) and directly along Water Orton Road (avoiding Parkfield Estate) to Water Orton.
Quote from: CBBUser on November 19, 2018, 10:35:33 PM
For the Washwood Heath Road i'd like to see:
55 - as current route, every 10mins
93 - Birmingham to Chelmsley Wood via Kingshurst (as 94 to Morrison's, then Chester Road, Kingshurst Estate, Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road), every 10 mins
94 - as current route, every 10 mins
I'd also add 70, Birmingham to Castle Bromwich Morrisons (as 94 to Drews Lane, then as X70 to Parkfield Estate, Water Orton Road, green Lane, hurst lane North to Morrisons) every 30 mins.
In turn I would accelerate X70 by operating along Bromford Road (currently unserved, between Bromford and Hunters Moon) and directly along Water Orton Road (avoiding Parkfield Estate) to Water Orton.
So you would increase the PVR for routes 55, X70 and 94 from around
30 buses to your new 55, 70, X70, 93 and 94 which would be a PVR of around
37. That's an increase of around 20%! , a big increase in running costs, wages, fuel etc and you would need an increase in passengers of over 20% to make it viable. Not realistic is it ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on November 19, 2018, 10:53:48 PM
So you would increase the PVR for routes 55, X70 and 94 from around 30 buses to your new 55, 70, X70, 93 and 94 which would be a PVR of around 37. That's an increase of around 20%! , a big increase in running costs, wages, fuel etc and you would need an increase in passengers of over 20% to make it viable. Not realistic is it ?
The 70 service - I can't see there being enough passengers along Drews Lane and Parkfield Estate to make such a service viable, the rest of the route would be covered by other services - along the Washwood Heath Road - the Washwood Heath Road services and in Bromford the X12.
There's a reason NX took the 72 of Drew Lane, that is that it was underused, without replacing it and there are alternative services at each end of Drew Lane - 55/94 and X12/X70.
Quote from: CBBUser on November 19, 2018, 10:35:33 PM
For the Washwood Heath Road i'd like to see:
55 - as current route, every 10mins
93 - Birmingham to Chelmsley Wood via Kingshurst (as 94 to Morrison's, then Chester Road, Kingshurst Estate, Cooks Lane and Chelmsley Road), every 10 mins
94 - as current route, every 10 mins
I'd also add 70, Birmingham to Castle Bromwich Morrisons (as 94 to Drews Lane, then as X70 to Parkfield Estate, Water Orton Road, green Lane, hurst lane North to Morrisons) every 30 mins.
In turn I would accelerate X70 by operating along Bromford Road (currently unserved, between Bromford and Hunters Moon) and directly along Water Orton Road (avoiding Parkfield Estate) to Water Orton.
I do remember them trying to 93a which went to c wood, did most of that missing out Cooks lane, didn't last long from memory.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 20, 2018, 06:21:08 AM
I do remember them trying to 93a which went to c wood, did most of that missing out Cooks lane, didn't last long from memory.
I can't ever remember a 93A. Maybe a 94A or the later incarnation of the 95? (I think the previous 95 and also the 90A that replaced it went only as far as Castle Bromwich)
Quote from: Gareth on November 20, 2018, 10:30:09 AM
I can't ever remember a 93A. Maybe a 94A or the later incarnation of the 95? (I think the previous 95 and also the 90A that replaced it went only as far as Castle Bromwich)
There was definitely a 93 a , like I say didn't last long. It was the area when you had central twm spin off also doing a 25 from erdington to cwood via shard end and even the Walsall 377 going to cwood before the 25 . Very hazy but remember bits and pieces from the 90s
Quote from: B.C Driver on November 16, 2018, 03:26:01 PM
Similar problems elsewhere... 52 replaced by 952 with no improvement to frequency of 33 or 51.
98 replaced by X20 leaving the 63 to try to cope between Selly Oak and Longbridge.
it's horrible, but it's not as bad as before the x20 came in. During Rush hour, maximum you get is all seats taken. Very rarely you get a standing load.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on November 20, 2018, 10:53:31 AM
There was definitely a 93 a , like I say didn't last long. It was the area when you had central twm spin off also doing a 25 from erdington to cwood via shard end and even the Walsall 377 going to cwood before the 25 . Very hazy but remember bits and pieces from the 90s
Never a 93a as far as I remember. Never more than 1 variant of the 93 at any tjme
Quote from: mrboshell on January 06, 2019, 08:35:59 PM
it's horrible, but it's not as bad as before the x20 came in. During Rush hour, maximum you get is all seats taken. Very rarely you get a standing load.
If as you say, the maximum you get Is all seats taken with no overcrowding, then that would suggest its coping fine to me?
I wouldn't really say its horrible, I can't think of many routes where you wouldn't get a bus with all seats taken during the rush hour.
Quote from: Tony on January 06, 2019, 08:40:39 PM
Never a 93a as far as I remember. Never more than 1 variant of the 93 at any tjme
When Your Bus ran a 92Y from Jewellery Quarter to Shard End via City and Yorks Wood WMT re-routed the 92 away from York's Wood via Lea Ford Road to Chelmsley Wood and was reduced to shopping hours only, also the the 93A was introduced to run to Chelmsley Wood (not serving Kingshurst Way) also running shopping hours only, the 93 continued as normal at all other times. The 92 and 93 reverted to there normal routes when the 92Y was withdrawn. I don't think this arrangement lasted very long.
There was also a 95 that originally ran to Park Hall School via the 590 route. It was then changed to operate to Lanchester Way, Smiths Wood via Water Orion Rd, Green Lane, Windward Way, Arran Way then Auckland Drive.
I remember driving this one day from City and I never carried anyone all the way through. I was stuck behind a 93, 94 and 590.
After that it was withdrawn.
26 was extended to Kingshurst for awhile if anyone remembers that.
Tony I remember the 377 going to C Wood
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 06, 2019, 10:02:10 PM
When Your Bus ran a 92Y from Jewellery Quarter to Shard End via City and Yorks Wood WMT re-routed the 92 away from York's Wood via Lea Ford Road to Chelmsley Wood and was reduced to shopping hours only, also the the 93A was introduced to run to Chelmsley Wood (not serving Kingshurst Way) also running shopping hours only, the 93 continued as normal at all other times. The 92 and 93 reverted to there normal routes when the 92Y was withdrawn. I don't think this arrangement lasted very long.
Agreed
Quote from: Brummie45 on January 07, 2019, 05:07:40 AM
There was also a 95 that originally ran to Park Hall School via the 590 route. It was then changed to operate to Lanchester Way, Smiths Wood via Water Orion Rd, Green Lane, Windward Way, Arran Way then Auckland Drive.
I remember driving this one day from City and I never carried anyone all the way through. I was stuck behind a 93, 94 and 590.
After that it was withdrawn.
26 was extended to Kingshurst for awhile if anyone remembers that.
Tony I remember the 377 going to C Wood
Agreed remember all this makes me feel old. No mobile phones then and the area used to get new buses at the same time as everybody else.
Quote from: Brummie45 on January 07, 2019, 05:07:40 AM
26 was extended to Kingshurst for awhile if anyone remembers that.
Yep terminated at the same place as the 54 did. Turned right whereas the 55 turned left at the mini island
Is it even worse now with the road works the overcrowding On the 94/55. Still always seem empty when I see them in the hodge hill area
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 18, 2019, 11:16:04 AM
Is it even worse now with the road works the overcrowding On the 94/55. Still always seem empty when I see them in the hodge hill area
Presumably you don't see them during busy times then and presumablyyou don't even use these routes - some journeys during the day certainly can be busy and well loaded, all day weekends and at peak times, usually when I see them they leave the City Centre full and can held full as far as the Fox and Goose.
You can hardley tell how busy a route is from seeing the odd journey at quiet times.
If they weren't busy, then I doubt NX would be operating them at a high every 4 minute frequency between Fox & Goose and City Centre.
I don't ever see one completely empty either.
1 of the PB staff has mentioned to me of possible use of a PB bus for a morning peak hour 55 trip into Birmingham before it goes onto the 38.
Any thoughts or knowledge of this, anyone?
A double decker maybe
Looking at new timetables look like they have been adjusted to improve reliability from 8/7 mins to 8/9 mins. Good luck using this corridor