Just out of interest this. I've always toyed with the idea of setting up a bus/coach company. It'll probably never happen, but I just wanted to know what people think of this, in terms of would it be viable in the West Midlands. I look around and smaller operators being swallow up by larger companies, such as Diamond.
Is this not a market worth competiting in? (I.e. are the margins THAT low, in reference to the death of Central Buses & Hanson's).
On the other hand, the lower quality smaller operators are still around (for now) such as the Social/DTS/Sunny group of companies and I'm sure there's one in Wolverhampton.
I just wanted to know what people on here think.
Quote from: MW on June 29, 2018, 09:01:58 PM
Just out of interest this. I've always toyed with the idea of setting up a bus/coach company. It'll probably never happen, but I just wanted to know what people think of this, in terms of would it be viable in the West Midlands. I look around and smaller operators being swallow up by larger companies, such as Diamond.
Is this not a market worth competiting in? (I.e. are the margins THAT low, in reference to the death of Central Buses & Hanson's).
On the other hand, the lower quality smaller operators are still around (for now) such as the Social/DTS/Sunny group of companies and I'm sure there's one in Wolverhampton.
I just wanted to know what people on here think.
There's still Banga, Travel Express and Select Bus Services who run services in and around Wolverhampton.
Quote from: StourValley98 on June 29, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
There's still Banga, Travel Express and Select Bus Services who run services in and around Wolverhampton.
Plus Thandi in Walsall as well as Claribels in Birmingham and Solihull.
Quote from: MW on June 29, 2018, 09:01:58 PM
Just out of interest this. I've always toyed with the idea of setting up a bus/coach company. It'll probably never happen, but I just wanted to know what people think of this, in terms of would it be viable in the West Midlands. I look around and smaller operators being swallow up by larger companies, such as Diamond.
Is this not a market worth competiting in? (I.e. are the margins THAT low, in reference to the death of Central Buses & Hanson's).
On the other hand, the lower quality smaller operators are still around (for now) such as the Social/DTS/Sunny group of companies and I'm sure there's one in Wolverhampton.
I just wanted to know what people on here think.
To be honest though to set up a business and get to the stage central was and then sell it is quite an achievement. In my eyes that is huge success. Bus patronage has definitely seen a decline and wilts all theses new stupid rules about emissions you need a fair bit of capital to start up if you want to expand your market- buying newish buses
Central and Hansons were from a different time, I wouldn't be convinced they'd do well if started up these days. Interesting to note (not sure about Hansons) but Central were going in the days when Diamond were just as small and look at them now
I'd always been of the opinion that if someone were to set up a new company then they should start with something unique or worthwhile, rather than just pick a busy route and follow NX or cherry pick subsidised routes and carry fresh air around. Like maybe following a route but running beyond where the current goes to provide newer links, or maybe just take a section of a busy perhaps unreliable route and make a thing out of not being caught in the traffic further down. Completely starting a whole new route from scratch would perhaps be a bit too far fetched but even then I'd see potential
Just my opinion, someone who knows sod all about business
Quote from: Kevin on June 30, 2018, 09:12:57 AM
I'd always been of the opinion that if someone were to set up a new company then they should start with something unique or worthwhile, rather than just pick a busy route and follow NX or cherry pick subsidised routes and carry fresh air around. Like maybe following a route but running beyond where the current goes to provide newer links, or maybe just take a section of a busy perhaps unreliable route and make a thing out of not being caught in the traffic further down. Completely starting a whole new route from scratch would perhaps be a bit too far fetched but even then I'd see potential
Just my opinion, someone who knows sod all about business
I would tend to agree with you. But any new operator intending to start up with a brand new route would need to do a lot of research beforehand in order to ensure that that route would be viable. And then a lot of marketing and promotion to make potential passengers aware of your new route.
If anyone was to just look at a map, make up what they think would be a nice route, and then hope that passengers start using it, you would not have a business that would last very long.
On the other hand, I do think there are plenty of opportunities for new operators to 'compete' on existing routes. It still amazes me how much dead mileage the DTS/Social/Sunny group does to run services in Solihull and Chelmsley Wood from Smethwick, it must be worthwhile for them.
I agree with what you say about 'doing something different' with an existing route. For example I've read comments elsewhere complaining about the forthcoming changes to the 37 meaning a reduced frequency between Acocks Green and Solihull. Could there be an opportunity for someone to introduce a '4E'? Could potentially run a reliable half-hourly service using one bus?
I've also read - as well as experienced for myself - complaints about the 17 service. When the buses get stuck in Small Heath and city centre traffic, there are large gaps in service at the other end. Someone might like to try a 17E service between Tile Cross and Yardley Yew Tree, or potentially run it down to Swan Island to connect with Coventry Road services. I obviously don't know how viable this service would be, as the loadings I have seen towards the Tile Cross end of the route have always been quite light.
But they are just two examples I can think of where something different is done rather than just running alongside high frequency NX routes and hoping for the best.
Quote from: Stu on June 30, 2018, 02:42:22 PM
I would tend to agree with you. But any new operator intending to start up with a brand new route would need to do a lot of research beforehand in order to ensure that that route would be viable. And then a lot of marketing and promotion to make potential passengers aware of your new route.
If anyone was to just look at a map, make up what they think would be a nice route, and then hope that passengers start using it, you would not have a business that would last very long.
...
Was more going on if it were a local to set up a service, I for example wouldn't consider setting up something in East Brum (without as you say a hell of a lot of research) - but in and around my own community would be different
Quote from: Kevin on June 30, 2018, 02:58:17 PM
Was more going on if it were a local to set up a service, I for example wouldn't consider setting up something in East Brum (without as you say a hell of a lot of research) - but in and around my own community would be different
I agree that there are opportunities about.
One that springs to mind is the Hagley Road between Hayley Green and Halesowen. Since the 142 was diverted to save time, Hagley Road is served by 5 buses an hour heading from Hayley Green to Halesowen on the 4H and 192 but only 1 bus an hour going in the opposite direction.
It struck me that there must be passengers who would chose a direct link back rather than do the Hayley Green loop first to return home.
It all comes down to risk ultimately. You might have an amount of passengers wanting a service from say Hayley Green to Halesowen, but you'd need enough for it to actually be profitable.
I've always thought that there's a market in Redditch. It's interesting in Redditch, as the price of the fares is cheap but the quality of service is abysmal to reflect the saying "you get what you pay for." I wonder if there's a market for a quality operator down that way.
The counter arguement to that is, look at Central and Hanson's. They were both quality operators and they've been swallowed in by a low cost, no frills operator who seem to be thriving.
Interesting.
I was always found Tame Valley an interesting one ex disgruntled West Midlands Travel people got investment. Created a whole nextwork of competing bus on exisiting corridors and WMPTE tendered work then got swallowed up .
north birmingham busways banga petes travel all ex nx bus inspectors set up after leaving nxbus not sure an
about travel express
Quote from: Solo1 on January 06, 2019, 05:03:20 PM
north birmingham busways banga petes travel all ex nx bus inspectors set up after leaving nxbus not sure an
about travel express
North Birmingham and Pete's were not ex NXbus inspectors. Both were set up before NX ran buses and the people were not Inspectors
Quote from: Tony on January 06, 2019, 05:07:28 PM
North Birmingham and Pete's were not ex NXbus inspectors. Both were set up before NX ran buses and the people were not Inspectors
i thought the 5 from North birmingham busways was wmt inspectors or just above driver level what was pete Jones job at wmt
Wasn't there some ex WM people that went to Arriva Wednesfield?
If so, you would have thought they would have a fair idea what worked & what didn't, but obviously it ultimately didn't!