Just hypothetically,
What would happen if I just bought a bus and advertised a route locally and started running it, ignoring all DVSA/TC's. What can they actually do in this scenario? If I'm not in contract with them, surely they can't do anything?
I've never worked in the bus industry, and I haven't looked at the law relating to bus operation recently, but I've no doubt the result would be one or a few court appearances.
The law requires that everyone planning to use a vehicle as a PSV must obtain an Operator's licence, and that every local bus service must registered with the appropriate Traffic Commissioner(s). Failing to do either would, therefore, be breaking the law.
My guess is that the Traffic Commissioner would probably issue a summons to attend and hear the case or cases first - they have the powers to impose penalties for non-compliance, especially if you have ignored them! They or DVSA also have the power to impound vehicles as well. No doubt the police or a higher court also have the power to act.
I expect several readers with more knowledge than me can be more precise.
Quote from: MW on March 19, 2016, 09:11:03 PM
Just hypothetically,
What would happen if I just bought a bus and advertised a route locally and started running it, ignoring all DVSA/TC's. What can they actually do in this scenario? If I'm not in contract with them, surely they can't do anything?
You would more than likely eventually find that DVSA with the aid of the law would impound it, potentially with criminal charges to follow. Such a course of action is more common than you may think in the haulage industry where it's easy to run a white truck with no identifying marks and no O-licence disc, but the authorities usually catch up with the parties concerned - eventually.
Regarding the TC point: Commissioners only have the power to penalise operators with an O-licence and drivers, and if this hypothetical operation did not have one there is no power for the TC to invoke a PI. He or she could, however, require to see the driver(s) at a driver conduct hearing(s), with potentially significant consequences for their ability to hold or use a PCV licence. The TCs, to my understanding, don't have powers to summon anybody as a court does, but a failure to turn up at a PI or DCH without an excuse is likely to result in imposition of the heaviest possible sanction, ie O-licence revocation or a major curtailment of a driver's ability to use his or her vocational driving licence.
Quote from: barry619 on March 19, 2016, 10:33:48 PM
You would more than likely eventually find that DVSA with the aid of the law would impound it, potentially with criminal charges to follow. Such a course of action is more common than you may think in the haulage industry where it's easy to run a white truck with no identifying marks and no O-licence disc, but the authorities usually catch up with the parties concerned - eventually.
Regarding the TC point: Commissioners only have the power to penalise operators with an O-licence and drivers, and if this hypothetical operation did not have one there is no power for the TC to invoke a PI. He or she could, however, require to see the driver(s) at a driver conduct hearing(s), with potentially significant consequences for their ability to hold or use a PCV licence. The TCs, to my understanding, don't have powers to summon anybody as a court does, but a failure to turn up at a PI or DCH without an excuse is likely to result in imposition of the heaviest possible sanction, ie O-licence revocation or a major curtailment of a driver's ability to use his or her vocational driving licence.
Yeah but if they don't know the names of any drivers, how can they do anything to the licence? With regards to impounding the vehicle, surely they can't. They'll be trespassing. With regards to the law (legislation), as long as you don't give in and ignore every single rule, you cannot be penalised, as you weren't in the system in the first place?
From what I've read and understand, basically they can't do jack shit surely. Give me a fine that I'm not going to pay? I'm not planning on doing this lol, I'm just interested to see how the DVSA/TC enforce this false authority that they seem the have.
The owner would also be running without insurance as any claim made for an accident would be rejected by the insurers, as the vehicle had not been used legally. Also, imagine the claims then made against the operator from any passengers injured in an accident. It would not just be a case of fines, but numerous personal legal claims which would more than likely take every penny and asset the operator had.
Quote from: MW on March 19, 2016, 11:54:17 PM
Yeah but if they don't know the names of any drivers, how can they do anything to the licence? With regards to impounding the vehicle, surely they can't. They'll be trespassing. With regards to the law (legislation), as long as you don't give in and ignore every single rule, you cannot be penalised, as you weren't in the system in the first place?
From what I've read and understand, basically they can't do jack shit surely. Give me a fine that I'm not going to pay? I'm not planning on doing this lol, I'm just interested to see how the DVSA/TC enforce this false authority that they seem the have.
I think you will find that the vehicle could be impounded. It would be safe while it was parked in your yard, but the second it came out on the road it could be stopped by DVSA/police and impounded under several laws including no insurance as mentioned above
Quote from: MW on March 19, 2016, 11:54:17 PM
Yeah but if they don't know the names of any drivers, how can they do anything to the licence? With regards to impounding the vehicle, surely they can't. They'll be trespassing. With regards to the law (legislation), as long as you don't give in and ignore every single rule, you cannot be penalised, as you weren't in the system in the first place?
From what I've read and understand, basically they can't do jack shit surely. Give me a fine that I'm not going to pay? I'm not planning on doing this lol, I'm just interested to see how the DVSA/TC enforce this false authority that they seem the have.
If they have the Police with them (and they quite likely would have given that it would be a criminal matter, as already explained), there's identifying the driver sorted, unless he or she wanted to make things even worse for themselves by going 'no comment'.
As for impounding, you will find that they can, and in haulage circles in particular, have done so on many occasions. I seem to remember that a rogue HGV operator actually had several of his tractor units impounded and removed from the security of his yard to a secure VOSA compound in a major operation some years ago.
I don't think you understand the degree of authority DVSA have, particularly when the Police are involved. They certainly can do 'jack shit' and a lot more, as demonstrated by the number of people who have found themselves in jail for systematic fraud, and failure to observe laws, relating to road transport. Google 'UK North' and you will most likely find an example of it.
Quote from: barry619 on March 20, 2016, 11:24:54 AM
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I don't think you understand the degree of authority DVSA have, particularly when the Police are involved. They certainly can do 'jack shit' and a lot more, as demonstrated by the number of people who have found themselves in jail for systematic fraud, and failure to observe laws, relating to road transport. Google 'UK North' and you will most likely find an example of it.
Oh he understands the degree of authority, he just refuses to believe any authority as real
Thank you for all your comments.