As some on here maybe aware since September changes in Redditch the service has gotten worse not better. This is in part to the confusing 47/48 route, confusing due to the fact there is a 47 short and 48 short that is only apparent if the display is programmed with the route. Secondly the 47/48 cover near enough the whole town, yes its not a city but it's a large town and we suffer from traffic problems from time to time. The idea is a good idea but in practice it needed the 55H and 56H left as it was coupled with the 47/48.
Diamond also need to improve reliability of the fleet in Redditch and the driver knowledge as people are getting feed up with drivers not knowing where they are going.
Yes the petition sounds a little extreme but when you don't see a bus for 1hr 30 mins have to send a son to first school on his own in a taxi so you can get to work it doesn't sound so extreme. Asda know in all there stores in the West Midlands where Redditch staff are training that Diamond Redditch isn't great. I have been late to work because of Diamond luckily Asda have been ok with it so far, people attending interviews and Magic have been late due to Diamond and Asda have not had a go at those people they have said get here as quickly as you can.
Asdas been sending them to dudley to train too
Quote from: Chris on October 08, 2015, 10:50:21 PM
Asdas been sending them to dudley to train too
I know we have been taking over a lot of stores lol. Bromsgrove, Halesowen, Great Bridge and a few others. I must say we are having fun working with our colleagues across our sister stores whilst training.
And how do you envisage a petition would actually get Rotala out of Redditch - a business which they own?
Quote from: StourportSam on October 10, 2015, 07:57:42 PM
And how do you envisage a petition would actually get Rotala out of Redditch - a business which they own?
I was simply saying there is a group of people trying to get one together.
If I'm honest Diamond West Midlands is bad at keeping to timetables. The colleagues at Halesowen Asda avoid Diamond like the plague. The time keeping at Redditch is very poor.
Quote from: tank90 on October 08, 2015, 11:23:24 PM
I know we have been taking over a lot of stores lol. Bromsgrove, Halesowen, Great Bridge and a few others. I must say we are having fun working with our colleagues across our sister stores whilst training.
OOh maybe might see you aha
Only work over the water at Shirley but might be transferring to Redditch
@tank90 I have to rely on diamond for part my commute to work and if I had a fiver for every time the 226 of there's ran late, I'd be able to retire at the grand old age of 24!
Quote from: vinh1000 on October 10, 2015, 09:57:41 PM
OOh maybe might see you aha
Only work over the water at Shirley but might be transferring to Redditch
Cool :)
What department do you work in?
Quote from: the trainbasher on October 10, 2015, 10:08:45 PM
@tank90 I have to rely on diamond for part my commute to work and if I had a fiver for every time the 226 of there's ran late, I'd be able to retire at the grand old age of 24!
Snap, I'm now going with a friend to to town rather than getting the bus.
P.S. If anyone else would like to know about me working at Asda please PM me so as not to clog up this post.
Diamond in the news again in Redditch. Really doesn't look good for them with all this bad publicity.
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/latest-proposal-improve-diamond-buses-lose-licence/
Redditch people used to complain about First but they never were threatened with anything like this. What the hell has happened over the last few years to end up like this???
My opinion is Diamond were better off in competition, not having the monopoly. Sounds daft but I think they may have bitten off more than they can chew there.
I don't understand why Redditch has so many on-going issues, the operation is half the size of Tividale. I don't see how Diamond could have bitten off more than they can chew, it should be good bus territory having the potential to generate good margins
Quote from: Winston on January 08, 2016, 09:16:13 PM
I don't understand why Redditch has so many on-going issues, the operation is half the size of Tividale. I don't see how Diamond could have bitten off more than they can chew, it should be good bus territory having the potential to generate good margins
Historically it has been good bus territory but that all changed when Petes Travel then Diamond moved in and both companies started working on minimising overheads. No investment at all in order to keep costs low. This unfortunately has not changed under Diamond, as even though all the First Lances etc have gone, most were replaced by Darts which are well over 10 years old. Redditch could be a great opportunity for someone, but it needs a huge investment of new buses - not the odd couple of B7s bought secondhand. That is going to cost anyone a lot of money, hence why I think First went. Even for 40 vehicles, you would be talking £6million +. The only two companies that could really make it work, having the finance to do it, would be NXWM (who I think would be best suited) or Stagecoach. Unfortunately, with the situation now, so many people have given up on the bus there in the last 10 years, it may not even be worth it.
Quote from: j789 on January 08, 2016, 09:26:46 PM
Historically it has been good bus territory but that all changed when Petes Travel then Diamond moved in and both companies started working on minimising overheads. No investment at all in order to keep costs low. This unfortunately has not changed under Diamond, as even though all the First Lances etc have gone, most were replaced by Darts which are well over 10 years old. Redditch could be a great opportunity for someone, but it needs a huge investment of new buses - not the odd couple of B7s bought secondhand. That is going to cost anyone a lot of money, hence why I think First went. Even for 40 vehicles, you would be talking £6million +. The only two companies that could really make it work, having the finance to do it, would be NXWM (who I think would be best suited) or Stagecoach. Unfortunately, with the situation now, so many people have given up on the bus there in the last 10 years, it may not even be worth it.
Yes but there are ways of getting customers back on buses with stuff like free wifi, comfy seating and power points but again this would cost a lots of money. But I still really do think First Bus did the wrong thing selling Redditch they didn't give it enough time to turn it around and left the people of Redditch and Kidderminster with a rotting away bus service which is slowly dying. Today the service in the 2 areas is much like a rotting tree and even more so since Whittle Bus went and I am beginning to wonder if it can be saved at all has the rot gone to deep?? :( :'(
I know it is hard to understand my sympathy but if you lived in Kidderminster or Redditch area you would understand why...
Quote from: j789 on January 08, 2016, 08:56:16 PM
Diamond in the news again in Redditch. Really doesn't look good for them with all this bad publicity.
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/latest-proposal-improve-diamond-buses-lose-licence/
What I find surprising/amusing about the article is the image of one of the newest vehicles in the fleet, combined with the quote from Worcestershire County Council Labour leader Peter McDonald (Rubery, North Ward), ......... "They cannot go on using old buses that really are not fit for purpose and leave people stranded," .........
A very poor choice of photographs for the article.
And I'm starting there in a few weeks lol
Quote from: j789 on January 08, 2016, 09:26:46 PM
Historically it has been good bus territory but that all changed when Petes Travel then Diamond moved in and both companies started working on minimising overheads. No investment at all in order to keep costs low. This unfortunately has not changed under Diamond, as even though all the First Lances etc have gone, most were replaced by Darts which are well over 10 years old. Redditch could be a great opportunity for someone, but it needs a huge investment of new buses - not the odd couple of B7s bought secondhand. That is going to cost anyone a lot of money, hence why I think First went. Even for 40 vehicles, you would be talking £6million +. The only two companies that could really make it work, having the finance to do it, would be NXWM (who I think would be best suited) or Stagecoach. Unfortunately, with the situation now, so many people have given up on the bus there in the last 10 years, it may not even be worth it.
The Diamond fleets at both Redditch & Kidderminster are far more modern under Rotala compared with First. Rotala are a smaller group compared with First and don't earn the profits margins of large groups. That said they did buy 5 new DF Streetlites in 2013, have added additional DF new & used examples plus drafted in a number of WF examples & there are a further 8 new DF Streetlites due in Feb this year.
I don't think any other group would come in & replace the majority of the fleet with new, there are always ways to grow passenger numbers, the first issue to address is being consistant & providing a reliable service.
NXWM had the opportunity to buy RH & KR but didn't conclude for whatever reason
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2016, 10:26:50 PM
And I'm starting there in a few weeks lol
Diamond Redditch is definitely screwed now :P
Quote from: Reece on January 08, 2016, 10:07:10 PM
Yes but there are ways of getting customers back on buses with stuff like free wifi, comfy seating and power points but again this would cost a lots of money. But I still really do think First Bus did the wrong thing selling Redditch they didn't give it enough time to turn it around and left the people of Redditch and Kidderminster with a rotting away bus service which is slowly dying. Today the service in the 2 areas is much like a rotting tree and even more so since Whittle Bus went and I am beginning to wonder if it can be saved at all has the rot gone to deep?? :( :'(
I know it is hard to understand my sympathy but if you lived in Kidderminster or Redditch area you would understand why...
I don't give a flying trout if the bus has wifi power points, I just want to get to work on time and not need to get a taxi! I want to be able to get to the hospital or town at the time or near to the time on the timetable. I can't, to get to my place of work (ASDA Redditch) I get a taxi £3.60 ago where I could get a day ticket for £1.90 but be late and get the sack. I can't turn up an hour before just to be on time for work.
Nobody in Redditch wants the latest fad on a bus they want one that turns up that understands english knows where its going has the right number displayed on time doesn't speed doesn't break down and doesn't fall apart or catch fire. Its not to much to ask, yes Midland Red West/First had there problems they at least kept the network simple and didn't keep changing every 6 months just to try something. 47 48 is the worst thing that has happened in Redditch the 55 and 56 where better as you could go the other way round and get to where you wanted at a reasonable time. And having routes interworked that are long distance isn't working, 62 67 64 70 47 48 55 should not be interworked. 67 should be stand alone as should the 47 48 55 the 70 and 64 should be interworking 62 stand alone.
Quote from: Winston on January 08, 2016, 10:37:04 PM
Diamond Redditch is definitely screwed now :P
@Winston Probably, I ain't got a clue on how to get about in Redditch. I'll know bits of the Signature and 146 routes
Quote from: Winston on January 08, 2016, 10:37:04 PM
The Diamond fleets at both Redditch & Kidderminster are far more modern under Rotala compared with First. Rotala are a smaller group compared with First and don't earn the profits margins of large groups. That said they did buy 5 new DF Streetlites in 2013, have added additional DF new & used examples plus drafted in a number of WF examples & there are a further 8 new DF Streetlites due in Feb this year.
I don't think any other group would come in & replace the majority of the fleet with new, there are always ways to grow passenger numbers, the first issue to address is being consistant & providing a reliable service.
NXWM had the opportunity to buy RH & KR but didn't conclude for whatever reason
Diamond Redditch is definitely screwed now :P
But the problems still exist, which suggests two things. Either they have been very unlucky with bus reliability, driver shortages etc or bad management in not having the necessary back ups in place. As you said earlier in your post, the fleet is a lot smaller than their west mids one so they must have spare buses available. my issue with them is that as the only operator now they have a responsibility to run a good service without excuses. If they cannot maintain a reliable fleet and workforce then surely their is only one outcome anyway.
Quote from: MW on January 08, 2016, 10:26:50 PM
And I'm starting there in a few weeks lol
I'll see you around then!
Quote from: MW on January 09, 2016, 03:52:41 AM
@Winston
Probably, I ain't got a clue on how to get about in Redditch. I'll know bits of the Signature and 146 routes
@MW sounds like you're going to have fun for a bit learning all the new routes. It will be interesting to see if your take on things matches what the local Redditch papers say
If you read some of the comments on social media, I'm sure loads of people would be saying the same about NX in the West Midlands ('old buses', never run on time etc)! 8)
Quote from: Stu on January 09, 2016, 11:28:02 AM
If you read some of the comments on social media, I'm sure loads of people would be saying the same about NX in the West Midlands ('old buses', never run on time etc)! 8)
does not seam that long ago people in Redditch and Kidderminster where saying exactly the same thing about First Bus , It May be just me but in the last couple of months services in general seam to be better than they where earlier in 2015, and with all the road works over the area covered by Kidderminster depot is good.
Quote from: Winston on January 09, 2016, 09:36:11 AM
@MW sounds like you're going to have fun for a bit learning all the new routes. It will be interesting to see if your take on things matches what the local Redditch papers say
Yeah I'll see how it goes. I've pretty much been offered my job back at NXWM, but I'm gonna give this a chance first.
I'm really looking forward to the various types of vehicles though, wasn't much variety at AG. The enthusiast in me chose Redditch over Tividale purely because the types of vehicle lol. Both same distance from me aswell pretty much.
Quote from: MW on January 09, 2016, 05:10:30 PM
Yeah I'll see how it goes. I've pretty much been offered my job back at NXWM, but I'm gonna give this a chance first.
I'm really looking forward to the various types of vehicles though, wasn't much variety at AG. The enthusiast in me chose Redditch over Tividale purely because the types of vehicle lol. Both same distance from me aswell pretty much.
Shame you didn't go for tividale, would have seen you no doubt
Quote from: MW on January 09, 2016, 05:10:30 PM
Yeah I'll see how it goes. I've pretty much been offered my job back at NXWM, but I'm gonna give this a chance first.
I'm really looking forward to the various types of vehicles though, wasn't much variety at AG. The enthusiast in me chose Redditch over Tividale purely because the types of vehicle lol. Both same distance from me aswell pretty much.
@MW be warned; it's a nightmare to get your car out of depot of a night of you finish late! Especially in the week! I'm quite enjoying it her tbf, although I'm only a casual driver :D
The trouble in Redditch doesn't really surprise me - the Signature services have gone downhill this year and more so since Redditch took them over. Still high level of breakdowns and poor reliability - wouldn't surprise me if NXWM and Johnsons made a dent in the Signature contract work in the future.
Good luck MW there - glad that NX seemed to have provided an avenue back to them but hope you do well at Diamond. At NX my personal fav for variety is Yardley Wood (400s, 400MMCs, Scanias, Tridents, Presidents).
Quote from: Liberator9 on January 10, 2016, 03:23:09 AM
The trouble in Redditch doesn't really surprise me - the Signature services have gone downhill this year and more so since Redditch took them over. Still high level of breakdowns and poor reliability - wouldn't surprise me if NXWM and Johnsons made a dent in the Signature contract work in the future.
Good luck MW there - glad that NX seemed to have provided an avenue back to them but hope you do well at Diamond. At NX my personal fav for variety is Yardley Wood (400s, 400MMCs, Scanias, Tridents, Presidents).
Yeah, maybe NXWM will try and get Diamond out of Solihull in the future. I don't know, but what I do know is AG/YW are at full capacity near enough, so it'd mean shuffling around. I'm thinking of when/if I go back, should I go to YW, hmmm...
Quote from: Matt.N0056 on January 09, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
@MW be warned; it's a nightmare to get your car out of depot of a night of you finish late! Especially in the week! I'm quite enjoying it her tbf, although I'm only a casual driver :D
Haha, I'm sure I'll figure something out.
So it looks like Diamond is about to get it's licence revoked.
P.s, I've already left, it's a s***hole and ran by idiots. First hand witness here.
Also, Johnsons are strongly rumoured to be coming into Redditch more.
Quote from: MW on January 14, 2016, 05:16:03 AM
So it looks like Diamond is about to get it's licence revoked.
P.s, I've already left, it's a s***hole and ran by idiots. First hand witness here.
Also, Johnsons are strongly rumoured to be coming into Redditch more.
@MW - are you going by this recent article?
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/latest-proposal-improve-diamond-buses-lose-licence/
How long did you give it?
Johnson's have been rumoured to be increasing it's presense in RH for ages
Quote from: Winston on January 14, 2016, 09:47:00 AM
@MW - are you going by this recent article?
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/latest-proposal-improve-diamond-buses-lose-licence/
How long did you give it?
Johnson's have been rumoured to be increasing it's presense in RH for ages
Two days. I've left. Pathetic company to be honest. Pathetic state of vehicles. Every single vehicle I came across had some sort of fault. Serious faults like engines constantly cutting out (multiple vehicles this fault was), when in service and moving that is, resulting in no power steering, limited brakes etc. Forget the tedious faults at NXWM that are essentially meaningless, I'm talking real faults. Engine management lights on and running in limp mode in one case, and simply constantly resetting the bus. One bus, on the 247, every couple of minutes, the gearbox would simply shut down. Imagine your on a NSL road and it literally loses gears, nothing works. Slowly coming to a stop and you either had to wait for it, which was purely random and pot luck, or switch it off and on again. Buses with the whole fronts with filler. Buses running with loose wheel nuts (yes that is correct). Buses with leaks, still in service. And I haven't started on the 12-14 hour days every single driver was having. Minimum a driver's duty was 12 hours. Like what the hell. The drivers I was training with, some of them would come in a 6am and finish at approx 9pm. Now I'm sure that contravenes the RTA somewhere. I know why there's such a big problem in Redditch now. It's fully a cowboy operation there in Redditch. Whether Tividale is as bad, I don't know. But yeah, every single bus I went on had some sort of fault, and was usually an array of faults. Also, the VCR's weren't big enough to record the faults, I know this sounds like an exaggeration, but no. They're short of approx 35 drivers at Redditch, and going down more with these hours. It's been this bad for approx 3-4 months according to the drivers. According to many of the staff including management, it's due to stupid things like accounts not being paid for parts companies, thus meaning parts not delivered to garage, and buses not being repaired. This sounds like BS, but who knows. Apparently Rotala really doesn't like spending money. It's insane how from a 3rd party view, prior to trying Diamond out, things don't look bad, but when you start, bloody hell. I was overlooking a hell of a lot and tried to remain optimistic, when one of the managers decided to randomly have a go at me. He was clearly in a bad mood already and tried to make me stay more than my hours to which I politely declined, and then he got a little personal, to which I told them to do one basically.
Nah just speaking to some Johnsons drivers at Redditch Bus Station. They reckon Johnsons management is/was waiting for the verdict, and then swooping into Redditch, according to a drivers meeting at Johnsons. Johnsons has allegedly purchased a quantity of vehicles already, specifically for Redditch. This is a rumour and not confirmed. I doubt it's true personally.
I'm going on what has been floating about in the garage earlier this week. Diamond's deadline to sorting itself out is today (14/01/2016), so I'm sure we'll hear what the council have to say. It was given 6 weeks, 6 weeks ago apparently. They can't really revoke the licence though, unless there's a backup ready and waiting. Johnsons is also apparently in talks with Worcestershire Council in taking on the many of Diamonds routes.
I do hope they get there licence revoked and a more proper company swoops in. I fully agree with all of the complaints you see on various social media websites now as well. Honestly I believe that there aren't enough complaints online than there should be. Before I would take them which a pinch of salt but now I've seen for myself. Utter disgrace of a company in my opinion. Other drivers are hoping for Stagecoach to take over due to their pay rate lol.
one question all these firms that people would like to move in to Worcestershire
they had a chance to buy the operations when first put them up for sale there must
have been some big reason that they did not then buy them then?
something just been on BBC H&W News about diamond, and WCC
it seamed like they where talking about the same thing that is in link
posted by Mw yesterday
and people who are on facebook take a look at this page
First Bus in Bristol are Completely and Utterly Useless
a facebook group
Quote from: Cedric on January 14, 2016, 11:12:35 AM
one question all these firms that people would like to move in to Worcestershire
they had a chance to buy the operations when first put them up for sale there must
have been some big reason that they did not then buy them then?
something just been on BBC H&W News about diamond, and WCC
it seamed like they where talking about the same thing that is in link
posted by Mw yesterday
and people who are on facebook take a look at this page
First Bus in Bristol are Completely and Utterly Useless
a facebook group
Yes but First wouldn't sell the fleet that should have been at both Redditch and Kidderminster. First wanted shot of the 10 Presidents the non DDA darts and the Lances and only 3 E300s and not the 5 Alx 400s, 3 darts that went to WR and HR now in the potteries and the rest of the E300s from Redditch. if a company had wanted to buy these the price would have gone up sharply, Rotala were the only ones prepared to buy at the price they got. If they hadn't Whittle maybe still around and First might be still in Redditch.
Quote from: tank90 on January 14, 2016, 06:21:37 PM
Yes but First wouldn't sell the fleet that should have been at both Redditch and Kidderminster..
They would, Simon told us that, but First's valuation was higher than Rotala's so Rotala chose not to take them
Quote from: Tony on January 14, 2016, 06:28:10 PM
They would, Simon told us that, but First's valuation was higher than Rotala's so Rotala chose not to take them
Diamond clearly don't know what a good bus is then. Compared to their many darts, the E300s are far superior buses which actually seem to be getting more reliable with age. Worcester's fleet improved greatly with the influx of the E300s when Redditch was sold and the fleet has got better and better since then with the new arrivals.
Another point to make is that there are very few ex First drivers left with Diamond (most seem to have left or moved back to first/ Astons or similar) now which probably suggests what sort of conditions drivers are subjected too. Bad times indeed.
Quote from: Tony on January 14, 2016, 06:28:10 PM
They would, Simon told us that, but First's valuation was higher than Rotala's so Rotala chose not to take them
Yes and the cost of what Rotala bought over stretched them. As I have said before they bought FMR RH & KR they always had the best buses the Volvos they used to be looked after well.
It would explain why NX Stagecoach and Johnsons did not want to put a bid in as First didn't want to budge on how much the 5 Alx 400 5/6 Darts VX54/05 and the 10 or more E300s. Diamond have bitten off well more than they can chew and it now shows and in a way its sad.
Not all the RH/KR drivers went across those that did stay either stayed for a few weeks and moved to WR or Whittle Johnsons Stagecoach. Drivers don't stay to long in Redditch or Kiddy
Quote from: tank90 on January 14, 2016, 10:45:30 PM
Yes and the cost of what Rotala bought over stretched them. As I have said before they bought FMR RH & KR they always had the best buses the Volvos they used to be looked after well.
It would explain why NX Stagecoach and Johnsons did not want to put a bid in as First didn't want to budge on how much the 5 Alx 400 5/6 Darts VX54/05 and the 10 or more E300s. Diamond have bitten off well more than they can chew and it now shows and in a way its sad.
Not all the RH/KR drivers went across those that did stay either stayed for a few weeks and moved to WR or Whittle Johnsons Stagecoach. Drivers don't stay to long in Redditchor Kiddy
There are still a few exFirst drivers left at Kiddy.
Quote from: Reece on January 14, 2016, 11:14:00 PM
There are still a few exFirst drivers left at Kiddy.
The amount of ex First driver across the two garages are very very low. A lot have left, granted there are a few tho.
Most First drivers moved to Worcester or Johnsons as far as I know. Handful left at Redditch. Many drivers at Redditch are actually ex Long Acre and Tividale.
Meanwhile BBC Hereford and Worcester are out on the Diamond Buses today in Kidderminster and Redditch.
https://www.facebook.com/bbcherefordandworcester/posts/1007167892688952 (https://www.facebook.com/bbcherefordandworcester/posts/1007167892688952)
Diamond have got until the end of Feb to improve services:
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/diamond-bus-improve-services-lose-licence/
Quote from: MW on January 14, 2016, 10:24:01 AM
Two days. I've left. Pathetic company to be honest. Pathetic state of vehicles. Every single vehicle I came across had some sort of fault. Serious faults like engines constantly cutting out (multiple vehicles this fault was), when in service and moving that is, resulting in no power steering, limited brakes etc. Forget the tedious faults at NXWM that are essentially meaningless, I'm talking real faults. Engine management lights on and running in limp mode in one case, and simply constantly resetting the bus. One bus, on the 247, every couple of minutes, the gearbox would simply shut down. Imagine your on a NSL road and it literally loses gears, nothing works. Slowly coming to a stop and you either had to wait for it, which was purely random and pot luck, or switch it off and on again. Buses with the whole fronts with filler. Buses running with loose wheel nuts (yes that is correct). Buses with leaks, still in service. And I haven't started on the 12-14 hour days every single driver was having. Minimum a driver's duty was 12 hours. Like what the hell. The drivers I was training with, some of them would come in a 6am and finish at approx 9pm. Now I'm sure that contravenes the RTA somewhere. I know why there's such a big problem in Redditch now. It's fully a cowboy operation there in Redditch. Whether Tividale is as bad, I don't know. But yeah, every single bus I went on had some sort of fault, and was usually an array of faults. Also, the VCR's weren't big enough to record the faults, I know this sounds like an exaggeration, but no. They're short of approx 35 drivers at Redditch, and going down more with these hours. It's been this bad for approx 3-4 months according to the drivers. According to many of the staff including management, it's due to stupid things like accounts not being paid for parts companies, thus meaning parts not delivered to garage, and buses not being repaired. This sounds like BS, but who knows. Apparently Rotala really doesn't like spending money. It's insane how from a 3rd party view, prior to trying Diamond out, things don't look bad, but when you start, bloody hell. I was overlooking a hell of a lot and tried to remain optimistic, when one of the managers decided to randomly have a go at me. He was clearly in a bad mood already and tried to make me stay more than my hours to which I politely declined, and then he got a little personal, to which I told them to do one basically.
Nah just speaking to some Johnsons drivers at Redditch Bus Station. They reckon Johnsons management is/was waiting for the verdict, and then swooping into Redditch, according to a drivers meeting at Johnsons. Johnsons has allegedly purchased a quantity of vehicles already, specifically for Redditch. This is a rumour and not confirmed. I doubt it's true personally.
I'm going on what has been floating about in the garage earlier this week. Diamond's deadline to sorting itself out is today (14/01/2016), so I'm sure we'll hear what the council have to say. It was given 6 weeks, 6 weeks ago apparently. They can't really revoke the licence though, unless there's a backup ready and waiting. Johnsons is also apparently in talks with Worcestershire Council in taking on the many of Diamonds routes.
I do hope they get there licence revoked and a more proper company swoops in. I fully agree with all of the complaints you see on various social media websites now as well. Honestly I believe that there aren't enough complaints online than there should be. Before I would take them which a pinch of salt but now I've seen for myself. Utter disgrace of a company in my opinion. Other drivers are hoping for Stagecoach to take over due to their pay rate lol.
Best thing Ive read all day
@MW well what can I say its a bit like Abellio London really.
Quote from: Winston on January 15, 2016, 10:51:59 AM
Diamond have got until the end of Feb to improve services:
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/diamond-bus-improve-services-lose-licence/
What any motormouths on the local council might suggest should happen is irrelevant, because contrary to what Coun Lunn would appear to think it's not actually him and his Labour buddies that decide whether O-Licences are revoked or not. Nor is it for him to issue ultimatums to that effect.
Nick Jones is judge, jury and executioner and anyone who thinks six weeks is enough for it to be dealt with has no knowledge of how TCs or the Public Inquiry process works, and know-nothings on local councils should keep their beaks out of things that they don't know anything about.
Quote from: barry619 on January 18, 2016, 08:35:53 AM
What any motormouths on the local council might suggest should happen is irrelevant, because contrary to what Coun Lunn would appear to think it's not actually him and his Labour buddies that decide whether O-Licences are revoked or not. Nor is it for him to issue ultimatums to that effect.
Nick Jones is judge, jury and executioner and anyone who thinks six weeks is enough for it to be dealt with has no knowledge of how TCs or the Public Inquiry process works, and know-nothings on local councils should keep their beaks out of things that they don't know anything about.
The councillors have received complaints from local people and have a responsibility to act, there would be an outcry if they did nothing.
The impression I got from the article is that after the meeting the councillors have given Diamond 6 weeks before they write to the TC and recommend taking the licence off them.
Quote from: StourportSam on January 19, 2016, 08:46:37 PM
The councillors have received complaints from local people and have a responsibility to act, there would be an outcry if they did nothing.
The impression I got from the article is that after the meeting the councillors have given Diamond 6 weeks before they write to the TC and recommend taking the licence off them.
But there is the problem. Local councillors, who from my experience of them very often know nothing about anything bar feathering their own nests, are in no position to be passing recommendations to the TC that licences should be revoked. All TCs, including Nick Jones, are very highly-qualified and well-educated people who know transport law inside out and back to front. Anyone who thinks that they can suggest to them what to do will be given short shrift, as well they should be.
The other thing is that licences cannot just be revoked on a whim. There needs to be hard, clear evidence of major wrongdoing for a revocation at a first hearing - and stuff like 'well, Mrs Jones at 3 Acacia Avenue told me that the 1030hrs service 10 didn't turn up a week last Tuesday' won't fall into that category.
Quote from: barry619 on January 20, 2016, 03:59:08 PM
But there is the problem. Local councillors, who from my experience of them very often know nothing about anything bar feathering their own nests, are in no position to be passing recommendations to the TC that licences should be revoked. All TCs, including Nick Jones, are very highly-qualified and well-educated people who know transport law inside out and back to front. Anyone who thinks that they can suggest to them what to do will be given short shrift, as well they should be.
The other thing is that licences cannot just be revoked on a whim. There needs to be hard, clear evidence of major wrongdoing for a revocation at a first hearing - and stuff like 'well, Mrs Jones at 3 Acacia Avenue told me that the 1030hrs service 10 didn't turn up a week last Tuesday' won't fall into that category.
But that is my point. Even if it is pointless and fruitless, the local councillors have a responsibility to write to the TC and voice the concerns of local residents.
I have no knowledge of goings on in Redditch, but from what I have seen posted on here, in local news and statements by Diamond themselves there are far more problems than the so and so service not turning up etc.
Personally, I would say Diamond are screwed.
Bus condition wise - I have had 3 Versas lately, fairly new buses coming in at 4 years old.. They were YJ61CHH, YJ61CHK and YJ12GUD. YJ61CHH is fine, it may sound like a combine harvester, but truthfully it is fine, it goes nicely and no warning lights. Howeverm YJ61CHK is the slowest bus I have ever had, I done an 82 on it and for the WHOLE journey the bus was beeping with warnings, not to mention about 6 warning lights on the dashboard, and also.. not to mention the amazing top speed of 15mph (Video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBraGzMQbFs - Bus is in Limp road, NOT roadworthy)
Then there was YJ12GUD, the Hybrid (Or Sh**ebrid) - ABS warning light, and you could feel it, with the bus juddering VERY bad to a stop, in my opinion, dangerous and CERTAINLY not roadworthy.
Diamond said they are making an improvement; clearly not if buses in a state like YJ61CHK/YJ12GUD are in.
Quote from: StourportSam on January 20, 2016, 04:07:22 PM
But that is my point. Even if it is pointless and fruitless, the local councillors have a responsibility to write to the TC and voice the concerns of local residents.
I have no knowledge of goings on in Redditch, but from what I have seen posted on here, in local news and statements by Diamond themselves there are far more problems than the so and so service not turning up etc.
Well, that's strange. Two posts ago your point was that councillors should be passing recommendations on to the TC's office. Now it's that they should be raising their constituents' concerns with it, which they are perfectly entitled to do. Bit of a difference between the two, though.
I'd also hope that those alleging that Rotala is running unroadworthy vehicles have something to back up their position(s) too... If not it may pay to keep such suggestions away from a place where identification of the poster(s) is not difficult!
Quote from: barry619 on January 20, 2016, 09:06:22 PM
Well, that's strange. Two posts ago your point was that councillors should be passing recommendations on to the TC's office. Now it's that they should be raising their constituents' concerns with it, which they are perfectly entitled to do. Bit of a difference between the two, though.
I'd also hope that those alleging that Rotala is running unroadworthy vehicles have something to back up their position(s) too... If not it may pay to keep such suggestions away from a place where identification of the poster(s) is not difficult!
No difference, councillors are voicing their constituents' concerns by writing to the TC and recommending the licence being reviewed or whatever based on the resident's concerns. Whether the TC does or not is up to them but the councillors have done their job by voicing concerns and presenting a possible solution to those responsible for such decisions, the TC.
This is all a guesswork anyway, we don't KNOW what the councillors are actually doing, the above is just what I assumed they were doing as that's the logical thing to do.
Quote from: bensweeney14 on January 20, 2016, 08:43:22 PM
Personally, I would say Diamond are screwed.
Bus condition wise - I have had 3 Versas lately, fairly new buses coming in at 4 years old.. They were YJ61CHH, YJ61CHK and YJ12GUD. YJ61CHH is fine, it may sound like a combine harvester, but truthfully it is fine, it goes nicely and no warning lights. Howeverm YJ61CHK is the slowest bus I have ever had, I done an 82 on it and for the WHOLE journey the bus was beeping with warnings, not to mention about 6 warning lights on the dashboard, and also.. not to mention the amazing top speed of 15mph (Video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBraGzMQbFs - Bus is in Limp road, NOT roadworthy)
Then there was YJ12GUD, the Hybrid (Or Sh**ebrid) - ABS warning light, and you could feel it, with the bus juddering VERY bad to a stop, in my opinion, dangerous and CERTAINLY not roadworthy.
Diamond said they are making an improvement; clearly not if buses in a state like YJ61CHK/YJ12GUD are in.
@bensweeney14 Glad I'm not the only one who finds the Versas shocking half the time. There's been loose wheels, suspension at the front not raising up causing it to judder, the low air pressure warnings, and the engines sounding like they're on death's door. The Solo SRs ain't much better - MFY cooling fan, MFZ slow as hell, having to use the manual gear settings to get the revs up to get up hills, however MFV and MFX are fine - although MFV is only due to the 'new' engine its got considering it spent most of 2015 OOU.
They've always been tempermental buses - one of the SRs when a year old had engine issues which took ages to resolve. I honestly hope the Streetlites on order replace this lot on the Signatures, although I'd much rather be seeing some Volvo B8s coming in considering Volvo are durable. I've always compared the ageing of the Solo SRs to the couple of months older NX Scanias at YW - the Scanias are still pretty much the same as when new - seats and paint are due a refurb but mechanically doing well and ride wise still the same as when delivered I've found!
Quote from: Liberator9 on January 21, 2016, 05:29:50 PM
@bensweeney14
Glad I'm not the only one who finds the Versas shocking half the time. There's been loose wheels, suspension at the front not raising up causing it to judder, the low air pressure warnings, and the engines sounding like they're on death's door. The Solo SRs ain't much better - MFY cooling fan, MFZ slow as hell, having to use the manual gear settings to get the revs up to get up hills, however MFV and MFX are fine - although MFV is only due to the 'new' engine its got considering it spent most of 2015 OOU.
They've always been tempermental buses - one of the SRs when a year old had engine issues which took ages to resolve. I honestly hope the Streetlites on order replace this lot on the Signatures, although I'd much rather be seeing some Volvo B8s coming in considering Volvo are durable. I've always compared the ageing of the Solo SRs to the couple of months older NX Scanias at YW - the Scanias are still pretty much the same as when new - seats and paint are due a refurb but mechanically doing well and ride wise still the same as when delivered I've found!
The 8 x Streetlites due soon are for the 57/58 not Signature
Quote from: bensweeney14 on January 20, 2016, 08:43:22 PM
Personally, I would say Diamond are screwed.
Bus condition wise - I have had 3 Versas lately, fairly new buses coming in at 4 years old.. They were YJ61CHH, YJ61CHK and YJ12GUD. YJ61CHH is fine, it may sound like a combine harvester, but truthfully it is fine, it goes nicely and no warning lights. Howeverm YJ61CHK is the slowest bus I have ever had, I done an 82 on it and for the WHOLE journey the bus was beeping with warnings, not to mention about 6 warning lights on the dashboard, and also.. not to mention the amazing top speed of 15mph (Video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBraGzMQbFs - Bus is in Limp road, NOT roadworthy)
Then there was YJ12GUD, the Hybrid (Or Sh**ebrid) - ABS warning light, and you could feel it, with the bus juddering VERY bad to a stop, in my opinion, dangerous and CERTAINLY not roadworthy.
Diamond said they are making an improvement; clearly not if buses in a state like YJ61CHK/YJ12GUD are in.
Ive seen buses today Darts mainly at the rear with black oil marks, driver say Diamond dont fix things properly and that drivers keep telling VOSA who ever they are.
Quote from: Tomf1993 on January 29, 2016, 06:22:14 PMVOSA who ever they are.
Quote from: gov.uk websiteHistory of VOSA
VOSA was an executive agency, sponsored by the Department for Transport.
It existed from 3 April 2003 to 31 March 2014.
VOSA merged with the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) to create DVSA.
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/redditch-woman-fail-apprenticeship-thanks-diamond-bus/
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/keep-eyes-redditch-buses-us/
Quote from: Winston on February 08, 2016, 12:15:54 AM
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/redditch-woman-fail-apprenticeship-thanks-diamond-bus/
Quote from: Redditch Standard
He also said that the introduction of eight new buses for the town had been delayed to carry out modifications so they could accommodate five spaces for pushchairs instead of just one, specifically for Redditch
Everything you need to know about Redditch right there....
Quote from: Kevin on February 08, 2016, 07:46:12 AM
Everything you need to know about Redditch right there....
LOL, and the rest.
Quote from: Kevin on February 08, 2016, 07:46:12 AM
Everything you need to know about Redditch right there....
Standing room only then ;)
Seriously? Who in their right mind would value the custom of pushchairs more than passengers needing a seat. Fold the pushchair, get on. Simple logic.
Quote from: Winston on February 08, 2016, 12:15:54 AM
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/redditch-woman-fail-apprenticeship-thanks-diamond-bus/
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/keep-eyes-redditch-buses-us/
That paper really has it in for Diamond.
Quote from: StourportSam on February 08, 2016, 09:35:02 AM
That paper really has it in for Diamond.
Glad that's become the general consensus, exaggerated, desperate nonsense to try to sell a flagging local paper and desperate Labour councillors determined to cause trouble for a Conservative-run WCC to make political hay!!
Slightly related note...
I notice in the Metro today there's an advert for a Service Advisor role at Diamond, with mention of dealing with complaints...
Why do see the words "in at the deep end" come clearly into mind?
some people are happy with diamond in Redditch
https://www.facebook.com/diamondbuses/?fref=nf
https://www.facebook.com/diamondbuses/?fref=nf
Funny how Simon Dunn, no longer posts on this forum.
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 08, 2016, 09:53:02 AM
Glad that's become the general consensus, exaggerated, desperate nonsense to try to sell a flagging local paper and desperate Labour councillors determined to cause trouble for a Conservative-run WCC to make political hay!!
If you ask me, Diamond should look to make a complaint about the malicious and misleading nature of some of the articles that paper has been spouting over the past year or so.
No, they are correct, we even has a ex Diamond driver on here who has told us many stories, which add up to so many that Ive heard from other drivers.
They need to fix up.
Quote from: Tomf1993 on February 08, 2016, 02:00:01 PM
Funny how Simon Dunn, no longer posts on this forum.
he his proberly to busy with his work , what we have to remember it is his work . It's funny how Redditch people just seam to have started complaining about the services in the last year , when diamond have been going for a long time there know it's only 3 years on there own but they where in Redditch for a long time before
I don't know about Redditch, never been their so don't know, Im on about Tividale Walsall routes, Ive told Simon my concerns and suggestions.
To whoever is defending Diamond,
go to Redditch yourself, spend the day there, and travel on various vehicles.
Trust me, it's as bad as the press makes it out to be. (which is rare I know)
Edit: does anyone want a poor paying inspectors job at Diamond? http://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Diamond-Bus-Company/jobs/Traffic-Office-Inspector-efe9df2519b5bff7?q=Bus+Driver
I would apply for that but they want people who have bus licence to cover trips etc
Quote from: Tomf1993 on February 08, 2016, 02:00:01 PM
Funny how Simon Dunn, no longer posts on this forum.
He does, if asked a question on the Q+A thread.
Quote from: MW on February 08, 2016, 02:25:32 PM
To whoever is defending Diamond,
go to Redditch yourself, spend the day there, and travel on various vehicles.
Trust me, it's as bad as the press makes it out to be. (which is rare I know)
I get a taste of Redditch vehicles and drivers on a Sunday when said depot operates the 3/X3 in Kidderminster - can't say I've ever noticed any problems as a passenger.
I'm not defending Diamond in Redditch - I have no experience at all of their Redditch operations - but I was pointing out how persistent and misleading the headlines seem to be in the Redditch Standard.
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 08, 2016, 09:53:02 AM
Glad that's become the general consensus, exaggerated, desperate nonsense to try to sell a flagging local paper and desperate Labour councillors determined to cause trouble for a Conservative-run WCC to make political hay!!
Not selling it for me with poor sentences like this...
"Diamond Buses can't
her get to work on time."
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/redditch-woman-fail-apprenticeship-thanks-diamond-bus/
Quote from: Adam 404 on February 08, 2016, 04:58:51 PM
Not selling it for me with poor sentences like this...
"Diamond Buses can't her get to work on time."
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/redditch-woman-fail-apprenticeship-thanks-diamond-bus/
Not wanting to defend Diamond either, but if she knows that she can't rely on the bus she wants to get her to work on time, why not try to catch an earlier bus instead?
A couple of years ago I used to be able to get a 37 at around 8:30am from Acocks Green and I could be in work in Sparkbrook ready for 9am. Over time, that wasn't happening, with the increasing levels of traffic congestion. So you know what I did? Instead of moaning to NX and the papers, I started getting an earlier bus, around 8:15am. OK granted, I'm my own boss now so I can't get myself into trouble for being late, but it's a matter of self-discipline. :)
Quote from: Stu on February 08, 2016, 06:32:50 PM
Not wanting to defend Diamond either, but if she knows that she can't rely on the bus she wants to get her to work on time, why not try to catch an earlier bus instead?
A couple of years ago I used to be able to get a 37 at around 8:30am from Acocks Green and I could be in work in Sparkbrook ready for 9am. Over time, that wasn't happening, with the increasing levels of traffic congestion. So you know what I did? Instead of moaning to NX and the papers, I started getting an earlier bus, around 8:15am. OK granted, I'm my own boss now so I can't get myself into trouble for being late, but it's a matter of self-discipline. :)
If you read it she has and it has still been late.
Quote from: StourportSam on February 08, 2016, 04:23:43 PM
I get a taste of Redditch vehicles and drivers on a Sunday when said depot operates the 3/X3 in Kidderminster - can't say I've ever noticed any problems as a passenger.
I'm not defending Diamond in Redditch - I have no experience at all of their Redditch operations - but I was pointing out how persistent and misleading the headlines seem to be in the Redditch Standard.
You are basing your view of the Redditch garage on a Sunday for the rest of the week........ Ok well Sunday buses are good in the town it might be because they don't have as many routes and interworkings which means it is reliable. The rest of the week it can be a case of stand by a bus stop and hope for the best. I very very rarely catch a bus to work, I live and work in Redditch and work for Asda, because when I have I have been late even getting out for an 1hr before I need to. The many interworkings make the routes unreliable because it simply doesn't work.
Most media outlets jump on to a story and run with it but to say they have been hounding Diamond is a bit unfair. Rotala knew what they needed to do when they bought the garage in 2013 or when ever it was, and they didn't have enough buses and drivers at that time either. So in a way this has been slowly brewing since then, queue drivers leaving and you get what has happened. Diamond were very good when they had competition they were better and stood out as a very good operator and I have to say used them over First as they were on time and the drivers were very helpful. But now they have lost that USP and they need to sort it.
20833 - 51 - Driver verbally abusing Elderly lady for being too slow getting on the bus
Quote from: jc on February 18, 2016, 10:55:13 AM
20833 - 51 - Driver verbally abusing Elderly lady for being too slow getting on the bus
Doesn't surprise me as some of the drivers can be very rude even if you are polite to them.
Quote from: jc on February 18, 2016, 10:55:13 AM
20833 - 51 - Driver verbally abusing Elderly lady for being too slow getting on the bus
Haha, what's he say?
Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 18, 2016, 03:10:42 PM
Haha, what's he say?
Serious question,
Sorry but what is funny about That?
Quote from: WN on February 18, 2016, 03:51:29 PM
Serious question,
Sorry but what is funny about That?
@2206 @WN The fact that a driver is telling passengers to hurry up whilst driving a solo.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 18, 2016, 06:20:14 PM
@2206 @WN
The fact that a driver is telling passengers to hurry up whilst driving a solo.
No. It is not funny. It is unprofessional to tell a paying passenger to hurry up.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 18, 2016, 06:20:14 PM
@2206 @WN
The fact that a driver is telling passengers to hurry up whilst driving a solo.
You wouldn't be saying that if it was your Nan or Gran would you?!?!!
Quote from: tank90 on February 18, 2016, 07:33:41 PM
You wouldn't be saying that if it was your Nan or Gran would you?!?!!
Plus the fact we do not know what the driver said. For all we know he could of been saying ''Hurry the f**k up you daft old bint'' Wouldn't be funny then either.
over in Kidderminster they wait for people to sit down before moving off, and drivers are nice and polite
and over the last few months things are on time (with in 5 mins) which is good condsidering all the roadworks
and road closures going on . the 3/x3 is the one that is the one the gets held up the most by the works .
I think the posts yesterday in this Redditch thread have got a bit daft side.
take a look at this I have just seen on diamonds site and there face book page
https://www.facebook.com/diamondbuses/posts/10154655419512178
take a look at post 1497 in the rotala q&a thread to see some more happigns in Redditch
Still making the headlines.....
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/child-fares-50-per-cent-diamond-hikes-prices/
http://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news/problems-diamond-buses-see-council-take-services-off-firm/
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2016, 01:23:02 PM
Still making the headlines.....
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/child-fares-50-per-cent-diamond-hikes-prices/
http://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news/problems-diamond-buses-see-council-take-services-off-firm/
Both very, very misleading as per usual.
Are people for real needing extra hours to afford a 30p increase per day? I do not honestly believe that is the case.
No mention on their part of fares to Studley decreasing or fares available through PayZone/App being cheaper now.
Also no mention on their part of fares being about the cheapest in the whole of the UK at the same time when significant investment is going in.
I'm sure the residents of Tunnel Hill and the outskirts of Evesham, plus Romsley will remind Redditch's residents of the reality of what First was/is like, they're all about to find out they're left without buses!
Is there really nothing more interesting to report on in Redditch than Diamond Buses?
Quote from: Winston on February 27, 2016, 01:23:02 PM
Still making the headlines.....
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/child-fares-50-per-cent-diamond-hikes-prices/
http://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news/problems-diamond-buses-see-council-take-services-off-firm/
I do love the smell of BS in the morning. £2.20 day tickets and everyone cries wolf. What sort of place is this?
Quote from: Ashley 60171 on February 28, 2016, 10:21:06 AM
I do love the smell of BS in the morning. £2.20 day tickets and everyone cries wolf. What sort of place is this?
God help them if they were round here. Double the price they'd try and get NX, Arriva, Diamond and any other operator ran out of the midlands.
More Redditch based buses breaking down yesterday..
YJ12GUD and YJ10MFZ both with Bonnet's up in Solihull yesterday...
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 27, 2016, 01:58:40 PM
I'm sure the residents of Tunnel Hill and the outskirts of Evesham, plus Romsley will remind Redditch's residents of the reality of what First was/is like, they're all about to find out they're left without buses!
Is there really nothing more interesting to report on in Redditch than Diamond Buses?
Sorry I think you are very misleading with that statement - the changes that are happening in Worcester are to do with routes that clearly cannot support a commercial service at current levels, at least First have tried with these services. If a route doesn't pay, it will inevitably get cut - yes it is unfortunate for passengers but clearly not enough of them actually use the bus in the first place. My own view is that First doesn't take enough risks with new routes but ultimately, its not my money at stake.
First were far from great in Redditch but the problems mainly came BECAUSE of the competition from Diamond meaning investment wasn't made as there wasn't the profit margin to justify it. Diamond now have a monopoly and NO COMPETITION yet still have created the situation they have now, and things clearly are no better overall.
As for saying significant investment has been made, that is a joke, yes a few new buses have come in but how many clapped out Darts are still around the area? I see the Darts come into Worcester regularly and passenger comments in this area are not complimentary towards that company even with only a few services in the city. They have had 3 years to get their act together yet these problems still exist.
The fact is if any large operator moved into Redditch, Diamond would be gone within months - however, it doesn't seem like anyone else thinks the area is worth a punt so passengers will just have to have accept the current situation and learn to love Diamond, or walk!
Quote from: j789 on February 28, 2016, 03:34:07 PM
Sorry I think you are very misleading with that statement - the changes that are happening in Worcester are to do with routes that clearly cannot support a commercial service at current levels, at least First have tried with these services. If a route doesn't pay, it will inevitably get cut - yes it is unfortunate for passengers but clearly not enough of them actually use the bus in the first place. My own view is that First doesn't take enough risks with new routes but ultimately, its not my money at stake.
First were far from great in Redditch but the problems mainly came BECAUSE of the competition from Diamond meaning investment wasn't made as there wasn't the profit margin to justify it. Diamond now have a monopoly and NO COMPETITION yet still have created the situation they have now, and things clearly are no better overall.
As for saying significant investment has been made, that is a joke, yes a few new buses have come in but how many clapped out Darts are still around the area? I see the Darts come into Worcester regularly and passenger comments in this area are not complimentary towards that company even with only a few services in the city. They have had 3 years to get their act together yet these problems still exist.
The fact is if any large operator moved into Redditch, Diamond would be gone within months - however, it doesn't seem like anyone else thinks the area is worth a punt so passengers will just have to have accept the current situation and learn to love Diamond, or walk!
Several million pounds is a large investment.
Many of the older Darts have been or are being withdrawn. The oldest bus will be 2001 soon across the Diamond Fleet, once movements are complete as reported on this forum. First have a lot of 2003 Solos running about - some of which look very tired.
It could be argued First have a near monopoly in Worcester and still are not able to make it work hence the cuts... I suppose something has to pay for all those new buses!
Quote from: StourportSam on February 28, 2016, 04:05:52 PM
Several million pounds is a large investment.
Many of the older Darts have been or are being withdrawn. The oldest bus will be 2001 soon across the Diamond Fleet, once movements are complete as reported on this forum. First have a lot of 2003 Solos running about - some of which look very tired.
It could be argued First have a near monopoly in Worcester and still are not able to make it work hence the cuts... I suppose something has to pay for all those new buses!
I'd struggle to name an area in Worcestershire Diamond have left completely cut off since taking over, services have generally been expanded and enhanced plus simplified. Generally I think the upcoming Worcester changes are generally positive in massively simplifying an overly complex network. However, they won't be especially popular. The fleet age at Redditch will be lower than that at Worcester with proportionally greater investment being put in by Rotala than by First.
The First Midland Red rot set in far before Rotala even came into existence, ground was lost in Kidderminster to Whittle's who in turn diverted resources out of Shropshire into Kidderminster.
Look back to 1997/8, Shropshire work shut and lost, not to Diamond, then virtually all of the WM work/Digbeth was lost, not to Diamond. They lost the viable Bromsgrove work, not to Diamond. Evesham work was cut and the depot shut, not to Diamond. Then Hereford has since been shut, Diamond nowhere to be seen.
It's wrong to link FMR's problems with Diamond, it's only one of the garages that was lost due to Diamond action. Digbeth/Hereford/Evesham/Kidderminster had little/no Diamond presence.
Diamond spotted what looked like a struggling FMR by 2008 and jumped into Redditch, who can blame them. I think it's lucky for First that bus station issues restricted competition in Worcester so Diamond couldn't make a success of it.
Looking at the FMR Redditch/Kidderminster fleets, there were P plate Darts, Lances, Olympians, CityBuses all well past their best. Kidderminster's newest bus was 8 years old at the time of the sale and only three of them, it'll have 7 year old full size single deck buses soon, quite a turnaround with a larger PVR. Redditch's fleet is significantly newer than under First as well!!
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 28, 2016, 04:23:36 PM
I'd struggle to name an area in Worcestershire Diamond have left completely cut off since taking over, services have generally been expanded and enhanced plus simplified. Generally I think the upcoming Worcester changes are generally positive in massively simplifying an overly complex network. However, they won't be especially popular. The fleet age at Redditch will be lower than that at Worcester with proportionally greater investment being put in by Rotala than by First.
The First Midland Red rot set in far before Rotala even came into existence, ground was lost in Kidderminster to Whittle's who in turn diverted resources out of Shropshire into Kidderminster.
Look back to 1997/8, Shropshire work shut and lost, not to Diamond, then virtually all of the WM work/Digbeth was lost, not to Diamond. They lost the viable Bromsgrove work, not to Diamond. Evesham work was cut and the depot shut, not to Diamond. Then Hereford has since been shut, Diamond nowhere to be seen.
It's wrong to link FMR's problems with Diamond, it's only one of the garages that was lost due to Diamond action. Digbeth/Hereford/Evesham/Kidderminster had little/no Diamond presence.
Diamond spotted what looked like a struggling FMR by 2008 and jumped into Redditch, who can blame them. I think it's lucky for First that bus station issues restricted competition in Worcester so Diamond couldn't make a success of it.
Looking at the FMR Redditch/Kidderminster fleets, there were P plate Darts, Lances, Olympians, CityBuses all well past their best. Kidderminster's newest bus was 8 years old at the time of the sale and only three of them, it'll have 7 year old full size single deck buses soon, quite a turnaround with a larger PVR. Redditch's fleet is significantly newer than under First as well!!
Whilst you make some comments I agree with, I do think some of your viewpoints are incorrect. Worcester and Redditch were the two jewels in Midland Red West - Hereford was never massively profitable because it was opened up to competition very early on as one of the trial areas before deregulation so competition was always an issue. Kidderminster likewise is not a massively profitable area and your are correct, when Whittle moved in it made it even less so. However, as I said the 2 big areas were Redditch and Worcester. Worcester has been protected and thes ervice level has Improved generally - never before did Malvern have a bus link every 10 minutes, The 35 has been massively increased too over recent years. Less the longer cross county routes have gone which is a shame from a driver's point of view as well as passengers, but the routes in Worcester that have been changed have gone because of lack of use. Worcester council has always seemed very anti - bus and investment has not been made.
To compare the fleets is misleading to, as Worcester is double the size of Redditch garage. also, the new vehicles that have come in to Worcester have reduced the age of the fleet. Most importantly though, the older buses First have like the Enviro 300s are far superior (and clearly have been well maintained over the years) to equivalent Diamond buses (Darts/ Volvos etc). The 58 reg Volvos do not look in good condition at all, yet are 4 years newer than Worcester's Enviros, so comparing fleet ages is not always an accurate reflection of the quality of a fleet.
Another point I would disagree on is that Bus Station issues were not the problem wioth Diamond in Worcester, it was their failure to operate contracted services reliably (how must lost milage must there have been travelling to Redditch (or Droitwich when that was open)- why did the council remove the services and give them back to First and LMS? Also, as a driver who experienced their antics first hand, I maintain that the travelling public of Worcester got off lucky when Diamond moved out.
I am not anti - Diamond (despite my concerns about them) but I will stand up for my employer when incorrect information is stated. Worcester has its fair share of moaners in passenger terms but I guarantee any passenger who has experienced the current situations in Worcester and Redditch would chose First every time.
Worcester is a larger depot, if you compare percentage of vehicles replaced as a proportion of fleet strength, Diamond's 8 StreetLites is proportionally more than First's recent StreetLites and StreetDecks as a proportion of the fleet. I agree Worcester city has a good network, although with higher fares to match and services that run nowhere near as late as might be expected.
It's worth also remembering that Redditch was far closer to the size of Worcester garage before First cut back and Pete's therefore spotted an opportunity. Plus the fact First vacated a ready to use bus depot!
I do agree fleet age isn't everything and the E300's are still very nice buses. Some of the ones put into Potteries have never been repainted since new which you wouldn't find on similar aged Diamond buses.
Bus station issues were a huge issue for Diamond which prevented them from operating some of the routes they actually wanted to operate that would have performed better. Coincidence that the 35 stand was too busy and a cheap ticket was made available on the service so Diamond were left to compete on the likes of the 31.
I believe it was Diamond who chucked in most of the WCC "country" tendered routes due to loadings being lower than anticipated, not the other way around.
As it was, Diamond trialled bargain bus fares for Worcester, later services with 100% lowfloor buses at a time when First were still running Lance Verdes.
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 28, 2016, 05:24:18 PM
Worcester is a larger depot, if you compare percentage of vehicles replaced as a proportion of fleet strength, Diamond's 8 StreetLites is proportionally more than First's recent StreetLites and StreetDecks as a proportion of the fleet. I agree Worcester city has a good network, although with higher fares to match and services that run nowhere near as late as might be expected.
It's worth also remembering that Redditch was far closer to the size of Worcester garage before First cut back and Pete's therefore spotted an opportunity. Plus the fact First vacated a ready to use bus depot!
I do agree fleet age isn't everything and the E300's are still very nice buses. Some of the ones put into Potteries have never been repainted since new which you wouldn't find on similar aged Diamond buses.
Bus station issues were a huge issue for Diamond which prevented them from operating some of the routes they actually wanted to operate that would have performed better. Coincidence that the 35 stand was too busy and a cheap ticket was made available on the service so Diamond were left to compete on the likes of the 31.
I believe it was Diamond who chucked in most of the WCC "country" tendered routes due to loadings being lower than anticipated, not the other way around.
As it was, Diamond trialled bargain bus fares for Worcester, later services with 100% lowfloor buses at a time when First were still running Lance Verdes.
A couple of points, Diamond didn't compete on the 31, they ran the subsidised 31A/C services until they were given back to first. Also, the question about the 35 stand - have you seen the stand in Crowngate? Even now you often get buses unable to get to the stand because there is a 33/34 on the stand behind and another 35 on the stand. Having extra buses there would have been dangerous. Seeing the way the 30 stand got congested with 3 or 4 buses was ridiculous. Thye one thing that First did in Worcester which didn't happen in Redditch was they fought back against Diamond and it was Diamond who retreated. Diamond came in initially with very low fares on the 30, and got a lot of custom but as soon as First dropped those fares the vast majority of passengers came back to First. I know because I was driving the route, passengers would let the Diamond go past and get First and it was obvious that there was no money to be made for them on that route. Diamond also cocked up the 144 route, running various versions including the whole length route which lasted about 2 weeks - hardly passenger friendly.
As for the Country tenders being chucked in, the council paid a set subsidy no matter how many passengers they carried so that should not be an issue. perhaps the issue was that they were not allowed to charge an additional 50p for First passes on the evening services, which they initially tried to do.
The obsession with bargain fares is somewhat odd, do think cheap fares = lots of investment and new buses because I certainly don't. Cheap = cutting corners. The adult fares in Worcester are not particularly expensive, particularly if day tickets/ returns are used (child fares are I agree on the high side though).
The thing with Redditch though is if you take away the Matchborough routes, the rest of the routes are not particularly busy so no wonder First had to cut routes as it was not viable to run 60 or 70 buses in Redditch.
The Henwick Park/Monarch Drive part of the 31 was commercial though, Diamond really tried to attract students onto that service with the later evening journeys. I still think Worcester could support some later buses, it's a very nice city indeed with good evening activities for people to do with a resident student population. Diamond's attempt to do that must at least be applauded.
I agree about the busy-ness and also unsuitability of Crowngate. The fact remains though that in owning the bus station, First did have a competitive weapon they could use to potentially block competing services they didn't want launching on the grounds the stands were too busy. They could never do this in Redditch and were never given the same notice of competitor's advance plans as was necessary in Worcester in order to book the slots. That undoubtedly gave First a competitive advantage and a chance to respond before Diamond's launch.
I think Diamond's main problem was the lack of network, in Redditch they build up, with the supported routes, 51/55/56/57/58/70 pretty much all of the town routes, in Worcester they could never have the same presence to get custom.
The 144 did seem to go wrong for Diamond, I totally agree, 64 becomes 144, extended to Worcester at peaks for commuter journeys (I'd expect majority would catch the train anyway), then shortened to Rubery. All in all, Go West Midlands' 64 seemed busier.
The cheap fares thing really is interesting though. First Worcester's fares are probably industry average for a small city, Diamond Redditch's and even Kidderminster are amongst the cheapest in the industry. My preferred approach is keep costs as low as possible with fares as low as possible to attract real modal shift and keep usage higher. Ie more people paying less money as opposed to less people paying more money. I'd say Stagecoach have been more ruthless with costings than First and until the post 2012 First management kept fares generally lower which has ensured longer term viability as opposed to shorter term higher profitability (look at First's margins in the early noughties) vs Stagecoach but the tide has now turned in favour of Stagecoach's longer term approach.
Generally speaking though fares look like this:
Redditch Day: £2.20
Worcester Day: £4.00
Redditch Week: £8.50 or £8.00 on app/PayZone
Worcester Week: £13.00
Redditch Month: £31.00 or £30.00 on app/PayZone
Worcester Month: (no specific ticket bizarrely) Worcester Plus £47.50
I'm playing devil's advocate in places, I really do think First Worcester are a very good operator and Worcester and Redditch are very different places to compare.
Fares of course take into account demand/local wages/service provision but I'm sure Diamond Redditch could have a load more shiny new buses if it was charging comparable fares to Worcester, I reckon always better to keep fares as low as possible, that's the real thing passengers are most conscious about.
I agree with a lot of the points you make there DiamondDart but I think the issue with low fares in Redditch is a consequence of the competition and something that Diamond could not really change now without a massive loss of patronage. I would think Diamond would have similar fares in Redditch to First's in Worcester if they were viable, but after years of low fares (£1 singles/ day tickets etc) they couldn't just hike the fare by 300%. I believe that if Diamond stick around for a few more years there, the fares will slowly edge up towards First's fares. If you take the 57/58 out of the equation, there cannot be a huge profit on other routes charging those fares. I have no idea how much Redditch contributes to Rotala each year but if I was a shareholder I would want the company maximising profits wherever possible and I think Redditch would be an obvious target for fare hikes. I just can't see those fares staying low in the long term unless another competitor moves in.
I think £4 for a city day ticket is acceptable and the Wyvern day ticket represents good value overall but I do acknowledge some single fares are expensive. However, from a driver's point of view the situation is much simpler now than perhaps 15 years ago when each route had many fare stages with different fares to each. You definitely required a fare table in those days!!!
Night services just do not seem to work in Worcester, I think perhaps the city is just a bit too small to have viable services but perhaps with the expansion of the uni, there will be scope in the future.
Quote from: j789 on February 28, 2016, 09:02:23 PM
I agree with a lot of the points you make there DiamondDart but I think the issue with low fares in Redditch is a consequence of the competition and something that Diamond could not really change now without a massive loss of patronage. I would think Diamond would have similar fares in Redditch to First's in Worcester if they were viable, but after years of low fares (£1 singles/ day tickets etc) they couldn't just hike the fare by 300%. I believe that if Diamond stick around for a few more years there, the fares will slowly edge up towards First's fares. If you take the 57/58 out of the equation, there cannot be a huge profit on other routes charging those fares. I have no idea how much Redditch contributes to Rotala each year but if I was a shareholder I would want the company maximising profits wherever possible and I think Redditch would be an obvious target for fare hikes. I just can't see those fares staying low in the long term unless another competitor moves in.
I think £4 for a city day ticket is acceptable and the Wyvern day ticket represents good value overall but I do acknowledge some single fares are expensive. However, from a driver's point of view the situation is much simpler now than perhaps 15 years ago when each route had many fare stages with different fares to each. You definitely required a fare table in those days!!!
Night services just do not seem to work in Worcester, I think perhaps the city is just a bit too small to have viable services but perhaps with the expansion of the uni, there will be scope in the future.
I totally agree, a result of initially the Pete's Travel competition then Diamond under Go Ahead and Rotala. I think those low fares over the past 10 years mean people are simply not used to paying a lot for the bus so any hike will be unpopular as fares didn't rise at all for the best part of 10 years. It's also quite a price sensitive customer base vs Worcester, generally speaking of course. Saying that, how many people that would have bought a car/travelled less have been kept on the bus simply because it's just such good value in Redditch and that can only be seen as a good thing.
The Wyvern ticket is good value although the network it can be used on is reduced, unfortunately single fares across the country seem proportionally more expensive but I think rewarding loyalty is important, plus of course the impact of Concessionary Travel which forces non season tickets up to ensure remuneration at a viable amount. First have pushed season tickets across the board, with the "Still buying singles?" strapline in some areas.
The FMR fares did seem to get incredibly complicated, there were numerous ReddiTicket's available, 6/7 combinations in all wasn't it, plus Shuttle Cards and the like! I think generally passengers prefer simplicity ie a local ticket and a ticket for the whole company for travelling further afield, and that's what First/Diamond offer.
I reckon in particular the 144 Centro area fares are incredibly good value!
It's a pity about the night services, Worcester is a really nice city that does have more evening leisure activities, unlike Kidderminster, and it's safer, unlike Redditch. I really do think that a promoted 31 to the University and maybe combined cross city 30/35 night service could work well
Quote from: DiamondDart on February 28, 2016, 09:16:22 PM
I totally agree, a result of initially the Pete's Travel competition then Diamond under Go Ahead and Rotala. I think those low fares over the past 10 years mean people are simply not used to paying a lot for the bus so any hike will be unpopular as fares didn't rise at all for the best part of 10 years. It's also quite a price sensitive customer base vs Worcester, generally speaking of course. Saying that, how many people that would have bought a car/travelled less have been kept on the bus simply because it's just such good value in Redditch and that can only be seen as a good thing.
It's a pity about the night services, Worcester is a really nice city that does have more evening leisure activities, unlike Kidderminster, and it's safer, unlike Redditch. I really do think that a promoted 31 to the University and maybe combined cross city 30/35 night service could work well
Your first point about attracting car users with low fares is a good one which is why I am so disappointed with the way Diamond has handled the situation there. It had a great chance to attract lots of new passengers with good value travel, but all this negative publicity, especially over the last year, must surely mean that any potential new passengers will see this and just not bother with the bus. They should have really pushed the low fares but equally ensured they had the structure in place to keep things reliable at all times which sadly has resulted in problems in Redditch. it is clear that some of the publicity isn't deserved but there have been too many instances where standards have not been kept. I hope they can sort it out, it would be good for Worcestershire as a whole to have a better bus network, and perhaps the new investment will begin this process.
As for the night bus, the problem with the 31 is that even if there was a need from students, due to the long uni holidays the route would become not viable during those times and I think would lead to much confusion if it was a term time only route. The 30/35 might be more likely but I don't think there would be many drivers willing to drive night services, its hard enough getting full numbers to drive daytime services!
The tone of the articles appear to be getting more positive:
http://redditchstandard.co.uk/news/redditch-mp-meets-diamond-bus-following-schoolgirls-complaint/
Extract from article:
The operations director said Diamond is also on the lookout for more Redditch-based drivers and a DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency) inspection of the fleet found Diamond's engineering standards to be satisfactory.