Drove passed three Preston Bus Tridents parked up in a lay by on the eastbound A5 at Cannock yesterday afternoon. Drivers appeared to be taking a break. They were all "V" plates. Anyone know if they were heading for anywhere around here?
Could it be either Long Acre, Tividale or for a out of the box answer Redditch (if Redditch for further services)
Quote from: trainbasher on March 08, 2013, 10:48:58 AM
Could it be either Long Acre, Tividale or for a out of the box answer Redditch (if Redditch for further services)
I suspect you're right, as they could well be part of the 10 x Trident/Presidents that Rotala are currently advertising for sale
Thanks Guys
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 10:53:36 AM
Quote from: trainbasher on March 08, 2013, 10:48:58 AM
Could it be either Long Acre, Tividale or for a out of the box answer Redditch (if Redditch for further services)
I suspect you're right, as they could well be part of the 10 x Trident/Presidents that Rotala are currently advertising for sale
What? Rotala are in no postion to sell thoose buses, transfer the preisdents to the 4/H/M and the tridents can go on town routes
The 4/4M/4H don't really need double deckers as the service is every 6 minutes anyway they just need newer single deckers a better choice would be either the 002 or the 301 who operate every 15 minutes and every 10 minutes respectively. None of black diamond's services really need double deckers as most of the commercial ones are frequent enough that single deckers cope with the capacity they have to deal with.
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 10:53:36 AM
Quote from: trainbasher on March 08, 2013, 10:48:58 AM
Could it be either Long Acre, Tividale or for a out of the box answer Redditch (if Redditch for further services)
I suspect you're right, as they could well be part of the 10 x Trident/Presidents that Rotala are currently advertising for sale
I would think those are the 10 current;y at Redditch, none were marked on the fleetlist sent to me as due repaint
In that case, do we know what is happening to these preston tridents? Possibly coming into west midlands fleet or sold on, as was the plan. Personally, I think ex lothian tridents at redditch would be nice
On the topic of preston bus, they plan to relocate from deepdale road according to this month's buses and also buses says on the topic of the hybrids "four similar buses originally for wessex connect are coming here instead" Looks like preston will have even more hybrids then hopefully meaning rotala could cascade some decent used stock to redditch
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
In that case, do we know what is happening to these preston tridents? Possibly coming into west midlands fleet or sold on, as was the plan. Personally, I think ex lothian tridents at redditch would be nice
The ex Lothian Tridents are probably in much better condition than the ex First London ones.
Makes you wonder what Rotala/Diamond are planning to use in Redditch with the 3 x Enviro 300's & possibly all 10 x Trident Plaxton being for sale, that will be most if not all of the ex First larger capacity vehicles going with the Lances also due for withdrawal.
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
In that case, do we know what is happening to these preston tridents? Possibly coming into west midlands fleet or sold on, as was the plan. Personally, I think ex lothian tridents at redditch would be nice
The ex Lothian Tridents are probably in much better condition than the ex First London ones.
Makes you wonder what Rotala/Diamond are planning to use in Redditch with the 3 x Enviro 300's & possibly all 10 x Trident Plaxton being for sale, that will be most if not all of the ex First larger capacity vehicles going with the Lances also due for withdrawal.
Anything from Lothian you're right Winston will be in good nick as they look after their buses-will ex london tridents that have since been battered around by first all over the place match up? Rotala are really going to have a bus shortage if all this is sold
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Again I agree. Particularly the solos-darts are quite good but why on earth did they buy these solos. As has been pointed out before-solos are for tendered routes, not routes that need full size single decks. Yes, some may have 33 seats but they are minibuses, at the end of the day
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 07:58:57 PM
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Again I agree. Particularly the solos-darts are quite good but why on earth did they buy these solos. As has been pointed out before-solos are for tendered routes, not routes that need full size single decks. Yes, some may have 33 seats but they are minibuses, at the end of the day
It's made me cringe this week seeing the solos in Kidderminster! I seem to remember First trying them in 2011/12 and not being very popular at all...
Quote from: StourportSam on March 08, 2013, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 07:58:57 PM
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Again I agree. Particularly the solos-darts are quite good but why on earth did they buy these solos. As has been pointed out before-solos are for tendered routes, not routes that need full size single decks. Yes, some may have 33 seats but they are minibuses, at the end of the day
It's made me cringe this week seeing the solos in Kidderminster! I seem to remember First trying them in 2011/12 and not being very popular at all...
Why on earth are rotala doing it??? If you have popular routes, put bigger buses on and make them more popular dont hamper their success by using small buses and driving people away
Having said that, a solo could be OK on the 3 between Stourport and Kidderminster now that Whittle have taken all the passengers! :D
Quote from: StourportSam on March 08, 2013, 08:32:13 PM
Having said that, a solo could be OK on the 3 between Stourport and Kidderminster now that Whittle have taken all the passengers! :D
the solos you refered to that first tried in 20011/12 where only 21 seaters and the slimline version , diamond and whittles are about the same in to number of seats provided as whittles only mpd darts mostly , on the 3 , whittles do use a bigger bus on the 192 which goes a slightly different route to the 3 and x3 If diamond cut the birchen coppice housing estate out the would get more passengers , as the two companies services run at the same time give or take a couple of mins , first always used a lance on this route
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 07:57:18 PM
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
In that case, do we know what is happening to these preston tridents? Possibly coming into west midlands fleet or sold on, as was the plan. Personally, I think ex lothian tridents at redditch would be nice
The ex Lothian Tridents are probably in much better condition than the ex First London ones.
Makes you wonder what Rotala/Diamond are planning to use in Redditch with the 3 x Enviro 300's & possibly all 10 x Trident Plaxton being for sale, that will be most if not all of the ex First larger capacity vehicles going with the Lances also due for withdrawal.
Anything from Lothian you're right Winston will be in good nick as they look after their buses-will ex london tridents that have since been battered around by first all over the place match up? Rotala are really going to have a bus shortage if all this is sold
They must be planning on replacing the Redditch Tridents with something, there have already been a number of complaints about overcrowding in Redditch posted on Diamonds Facebook page, some of the Pvr will be reduced by First de-registering their 57/58 without Diamond upping the frequency of their existing 57/58 services (unless I missed it?).
I thought I read somewhere that the refurb job/removal of centre doors done on those ex First London Tridents wasn't as good a quality as what First Rotherham unit are churning out
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Unless Rotala have some new full size single deckers on order we don't know about or are planning on ordering some in the near future, I'm inclined to agree, if they are intending to run a fleet of second hand Darts & Solos in RH & KR with 12 x B7RLE , I think they are asking for trouble, in Redditch someone may seize the opportunity to start up a competing operation so Rotala will be back to square on and Whittle's will up the anti in Kidderminster
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: StourportSam on March 08, 2013, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 07:58:57 PM
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Again I agree. Particularly the solos-darts are quite good but why on earth did they buy these solos. As has been pointed out before-solos are for tendered routes, not routes that need full size single decks. Yes, some may have 33 seats but they are minibuses, at the end of the day
It's made me cringe this week seeing the solos in Kidderminster! I seem to remember First trying them in 2011/12 and not being very popular at all...
Why on earth are rotala doing it??? If you have popular routes, put bigger buses on and make them more popular dont hamper their success by using small buses and driving people away
Pass, the Diamond operation just doesn't compare to their Wessex & Preston operations. how long before a KR Solo appears on the X3?
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 09:44:00 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: StourportSam on March 08, 2013, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 07:58:57 PM
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Again I agree. Particularly the solos-darts are quite good but why on earth did they buy these solos. As has been pointed out before-solos are for tendered routes, not routes that need full size single decks. Yes, some may have 33 seats but they are minibuses, at the end of the day
It's made me cringe this week seeing the solos in Kidderminster! I seem to remember First trying them in 2011/12 and not being very popular at all...
Why on earth are rotala doing it??? If you have popular routes, put bigger buses on and make them more popular dont hamper their success by using small buses and driving people away
Pass, the Diamond operation just doesn't compare to their Wessex & Preston operations. how long before a KR Solo appears on the X3?
well they already use them on the 303,
Are Diamond making a pretty crap first impression then?
Quote from: bob on March 08, 2013, 09:49:53 PM
Are Diamond making a pretty crap first impression then?
I would say that diamond have a slight mountain to climb. The basics are there: drivers, buses, successful routes and a solid customer base. However, improvements are needed: new buses-maybe rotala could wait to see if the mmc makea fuss. If not, sell the church road depot and long acre for redevelopment and then use the proceeds to buy new buses for the business. In the meantime, buying good second hand mid life darts and centros would seem to be a good idea. Apart from that, strategies to grow the business are required and thats pretty much it I would say
Diamond need a Dunn in Charge thats why Wessex and Preston have investment, or someone who is as strong as a Dunn and I don't think the Head of Diamond is. I mean the new livery is a joke it looks like a 2 year olds approach to a fleet colour or Biros attempt. Ok the blue is fair enough but if the had imposed the Signature swish on top it would have broken up the blue. Then if you have Diamnd in a white on the front with each area having there own colour diamond shaped O ie Black having a black one Worcestershire Red and birmingham Blue you keep the brands they ve worked so hard to build. Why there Marketing team have failed to see this is beyond me, Ok my marketing has come from Alex Polizzi on BBC 2 but you can work it out with out getting her flash friends involved, its not Rocket Science at the end of the day.
I know its hard to run a team but, when we look at Wessex with Wessex RED and Royal Bath and Preston Buses Livery compaird to Diamond new Livery it looks a complete shambles, but then you look at Diamond Signature and you think what the why the * are you messing around with solid Blue for.
I thought Diamond seemed an operation in decline... but now theyve gone and expanded
Diamond may be waiting to get the all clear from the mmc or whatever its called before making an investment. When rotala brought ludlows there 3 newest buses were sold straight away being the 3 omnicity's other buses followed including the 2 scania flolines which where great buses to travel on and could hold a high capacity of passengers but were sold to midland classic. I think diamond maybe getting rid of the 3 enviro 300 and presidents to try and reduce the number of vehicle types being used and standardise the fleet. At the moment the 8 hybrid versa's seem a waste on the 16 with blue diamond that service these days could easily cope with solo's or mpd's therefore moving the hybrids to Redditch or Kidderminster to improve the fleet or even back to Tividale and use them on the 4/4H/4M. I think it would be good if Rotala could acquire some more centro's from some dealers as they operate quite a few already and seem reliable, high capacity buses.
Quote from: bewminster on March 08, 2013, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: StourportSam on March 08, 2013, 08:32:13 PM
Having said that, a solo could be OK on the 3 between Stourport and Kidderminster now that Whittle have taken all the passengers! :D
the solos you refered to that first tried in 20011/12 where only 21 seaters and the slimline version , diamond and whittles are about the same in to number of seats provided as whittles only mpd darts mostly , on the 3 , whittles do use a bigger bus on the 192 which goes a slightly different route to the 3 and x3 If diamond cut the birchen coppice housing estate out the would get more passengers , as the two companies services run at the same time give or take a couple of mins , first always used a lance on this route
Living in Areley Kings I would say that I see more use by Whittles of the larger darts, Enviro 200s and the Mercedes V428 DNB than the Mini Pointer Darts, which seem to be used on the 3 when there's nothing else, mainly Saturdays? For example today they had the above Mercedes, a YX03 dart and an Enviro 200. The 192 sees MPDs as well though! Yes First always used a Lance which in my view was (apart from someone having to fold down a buggy every time I was on one) the best vehicle for the service, especially the X3. Enviro 300s were even better on Sundays!
Arguably, if Birchen Coppice were cut out then revenue would be lost? For the extra 3/4 minutes or so it takes?
Quote from: bob on March 08, 2013, 09:49:53 PM
Are Diamond making a pretty crap first impression then?
I don't think they've got off to a great start judging by some of the Facebook comments, they've suffered with ticketing problems particularly with ex First staff, missing buses, buses turning up 20 mins late and when they turn up they're packed, if the all full size single deckers & double deckers are going this will only exaggerate the capacity problems. Hopefully they are only teething troubles and things should start to improve over the coming weeks.... Diamond have an opportunity in Redditch to make some good money, they have a virtual monopoly over all the main town services, its good bus operating territory, if they run a good quality operation & invest in the fleet, there is no reason it shouldn't prove to be a good purchase.
One worrying thing, I've just noticed Diamond are advertising for drivers in Redditch, surely there should be an excess? as they shouldn't require all the ex First drivers due to some services duplications being removed
http://www.diamondbuses.com/news/DriverJobOpportunities-RedditchPlymouthRoad_77.html
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 07:41:22 PM
I hate to say it but #i dont think Rotala have any idea what they have got them selves into with buying Redditch and Kidderminster. I say that as they seem to think Darts are better than 3 enviro 300's which is bonkers.
Unless Rotala have some new full size single deckers on order we don't know about or are planning on ordering some in the near future, I'm inclined to agree, if they are intending to run a fleet of second hand Darts & Solos in RH & KR with 12 x B7RLE , I think they are asking for trouble, in Redditch someone may seize the opportunity to start up a competing operation so Rotala will be back to square on and Whittle's will up the anti in Kidderminster
If NX were ever serious about the Worcestershire area now would be a good time to consider competing with diamond
Quote from: Peter123 on March 08, 2013, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: bob on March 08, 2013, 09:49:53 PM
Are Diamond making a pretty crap first impression then?
I would say that diamond have a slight mountain to climb. The basics are there: drivers, buses, successful routes and a solid customer base. However, improvements are needed: new buses-maybe rotala could wait to see if the mmc makea fuss. If not, sell the church road depot and long acre for redevelopment and then use the proceeds to buy new buses for the business. In the meantime, buying good second hand mid life darts and centros would seem to be a good idea. Apart from that, strategies to grow the business are required and thats pretty much it I would say
Peter123, I agree. However, Rotala don't own Church Road depot its only leased. If they do decide to vacate Church Road and don't 'climb the mountain', its potentially leaves the door open for a new entrant to step-up in the town operating from a purpose built depot. Rotala will then be in the same position First were in with competition on its main / high frequency profitable routes....
Rotala are genuinely quiet on news of any new buses I remember when the mcv evolutions were brought in there was hardly any knowledge on the order then all of a sudden on the monday 10 brand new purple mcv evolutions for the 404E and the same for the 16. I would think they will invest it's just the case of getting it passed and cleared. In terms of sales diamond advertised to sell all there cadets none were sold and all have been taken off the market.
Quote from: tank90 on March 08, 2013, 10:01:10 PM
Diamond need a Dunn in Charge thats why Wessex and Preston have investment, or someone who is as strong as a Dunn and I don't think the Head of Diamond is. I mean the new livery is a joke it looks like a 2 year olds approach to a fleet colour or Biros attempt. Ok the blue is fair enough but if the had imposed the Signature swish on top it would have broken up the blue. Then if you have Diamnd in a white on the front with each area having there own colour diamond shaped O ie Black having a black one Worcestershire Red and birmingham Blue you keep the brands they ve worked so hard to build. Why there Marketing team have failed to see this is beyond me, Ok my marketing has come from Alex Polizzi on BBC 2 but you can work it out with out getting her flash friends involved, its not Rocket Science at the end of the day.
I know its hard to run a team but, when we look at Wessex with Wessex RED and Royal Bath and Preston Buses Livery compaird to Diamond new Livery it looks a complete shambles, but then you look at Diamond Signature and you think what the why the * are you messing around with solid Blue for.
Tank90,
Diamond had a Dunn in charge, Scott Dunn for a number of years, his has since left & took a couple of key people with him..... He setup his own bus business in Nottingham/Derbyshire trading as Yourbus whilst being MD of Diamond initially with 52 reg Dart SLF's, Rotala have since bought his cast off Darts. Have you seen how quickly he has expanded Yourbus in little over 3 years? He has amassed a fleet of 100+ buses & coaches, he is now the biggest contractor to NX with a fleet 55 x Caetano Levantes (43 of them brand new), the majority of buses now entering the fleet are brand new. He has standardized on Mercedes Citaro's for full size single deckers, along with a number of brand new Wright Streetlites, his latest venture has seen him buy 12 brand new Citaros branded as Citylink at a 10 min frequency against Trent's red Arrow between Nottingham & Derby, that is a bold move...... Yourbus has also benefited by the collapse of Premier and has gained the Nottingham Uni shuttles along with the ex Premier buses
It begs the question why he left Diamond in the first place, his proved he knows his stuff with Yourbus, maybe his hands were tied at Diamond due to lack of finance for investment?
http://www.facebook.com/yourbus?ref=ts&fref=ts
Quote from: bob on March 08, 2013, 10:45:52 PM
I thought Diamond seemed an operation in decline... but now theyve gone and expanded
I still think the WM Diamond business is in decline, they are loosing Centro tenders, NEC & possibly NX contracts? and giving up commercial route left right & centre. Steve Minor said the 97 was a profitable route so why give it up? Most say it went down hill when Blue Diamond started allocated Solos
Rotala have only expanded through taking on extra debt with RBS
Quote from: Ash on March 08, 2013, 11:40:54 PM
Rotala are genuinely quiet on news of any new buses I remember when the mcv evolutions were brought in there was hardly any knowledge on the order then all of a sudden on the monday 10 brand new purple mcv evolutions for the 404E and the same for the 16. I would think they will invest it's just the case of getting it passed and cleared. In terms of sales diamond advertised to sell all there cadets none were sold and all have been taken off the market.
Rotala need to realise that they need to 'speculate to accumulate' with the Diamond business particularly in the WM region, Rotala have proven that they can fund the purchase of new vehicles with plenty of intakes at both Wessex & Preston as & when necessary. With NX now investing heavily in new vehicles & refreshing the existing fleet, this will be yet another competitive advantage NX have over Diamond.
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
Rotala have only expanded through taking on extra debt with RBS
Two organisations well suited to one another.
Quote from: richie on March 08, 2013, 11:32:30 PM
If NX were ever serious about the Worcestershire area now would be a good time to consider competing with diamond
Richie, I'm not so sure they ever were, I think it may have been more of a case that First approached NX rather than the other way around. NX could have quite easily outbid Rotala if they were that keen, £1.5 million is a drop in the ocean for NX. NX would have been better to buy the larger First business and squeeze out Red Diamond, rather than considering setting up now.
I would think Worcester would be of interest to NX if ever came on the market......?
Quote from: Winston on March 09, 2013, 12:05:48 AM
Quote from: Ash on March 08, 2013, 11:40:54 PM
Rotala are genuinely quiet on news of any new buses I remember when the mcv evolutions were brought in there was hardly any knowledge on the order then all of a sudden on the monday 10 brand new purple mcv evolutions for the 404E and the same for the 16. I would think they will invest it's just the case of getting it passed and cleared. In terms of sales diamond advertised to sell all there cadets none were sold and all have been taken off the market.
Rotala need to realise that they need to 'speculate to accumulate' with the Diamond business particularly in the WM region, Rotala have proven that they can fund the purchase of new vehicles with plenty of intakes at both Wessex & Preston as & when necessary. With NX now investing heavily in new vehicles & refreshing the existing fleet, this will be yet another competitive advantage NX have over Diamond. With the investment of NX in new vehicles on a lot of services its still the first bus that turns up get the passengers for example diamond's 16 has 12 reg versa's but people still get GRS's darts. Also the investment NX
It will be interesting to see where the signature buses end up now some services have been or could be lost. If you look at the diamond fleetlist it's not that bad, the problem is they have too many mpd and solo's which have been cascaded from Wessex. Surely they make a decent enough profit out of their black diamond commercial services for them to have some sort of upgrade the cadets are OK but there 12 years old now and the 55 one they acquired seems to be the most unreliable out the lot of them. With the investment of NX in new vehicles on a lot of services its still the first bus that turns up get the passengers for example diamond's 16 has 12 reg versa's but people still get GRS's darts. Also the investment NX have made in West Bromwich none of the services the enviro200 have been for complete with diamond both the 40 42/3 still see's the mercs and b6le's.
NX did have a good sniff at Redditch, it could have been Kidder that put them off and not being able to buy Worcester and Hereford.
I have sent a message to Diamond saying I think it would be unwise to sell off the Enviro 300's and 10 DDs, because at the end of the day a E300 is a longer heavy weight Dart (all new E200s E300s E400s and E500 have the same cab layout and other features that are the same according to ADL) and the Presidents are again useful too. What would make sense is for Redditch to have the ex Preston Presidents to get rid of the two K reg DDs (even tho they are slightly more comfortable than a E300 going from Redditch to Evesham and back (I had a e300 out and City Kreg coming back in to Redditch)) this would then standardise more of the fleet. I would then put the 3 e300s at Kidder for the 3 and X3 the 3 54 reg ex FMR darts on the 303 newer Diamond full length darts shared between both Redditch and Kidder. As for the solos the 60/63 50/64 in Redditch could use them. But then again looking at the Redditch Standard this evenong there is more change on the way from Diamond. route changes are afoot or something that was hinted to me by the same spokeswomen when i had a breif chat with her, Signature and Royal brands are going to merge and all the buses currently in both brands are staying in the Diamond fleet.
The other problem is Rotala have gone to the same school of thinking as Calmac ferries, buying new ferries or rotala case buses in small or single units which make things slightly more expensive. Because Im sure Rotala and Yourbus could have both gone to Merc and said can we buy a batch of say 60 buses and would have had it cheaper than Yourbus going to buy 12 and Preston going to buy how ever many. And as for the MVCs well Rotala should never of bought them they should have looked at Centros or long E200's but then again that would have been a wee bit to simple.
So this would mean all the buses in the signature branding and the 8 royale centros would merge to create another brand maybe with the leather hybrids.
Quote from: richie on March 09, 2013, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
Rotala have only expanded through taking on extra debt with RBS
Two organisations well suited to one another.
Now, now Richie...
Quote from: Winston on March 09, 2013, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: richie on March 09, 2013, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
Rotala have only expanded through taking on extra debt with RBS
Two organisations well suited to one another.
Now, now Richie...
There's alot worse operators than diamond/rotala. At least diamond provide some sort of competition as well as genuinely lower fares.
Quote from: tank90 on March 09, 2013, 12:58:37 AM
NX did have a good sniff at Redditch, it could have been Kidder that put them off and not being able to buy Worcester and Hereford.
I have sent a message to Diamond saying I think it would be unwise to sell off the Enviro 300's and 10 DDs, because at the end of the day a E300 is a longer heavy weight Dart (all new E200s E300s E400s and E500 have the same cab layout and other features that are the same according to ADL) and the Presidents are again useful too. What would make sense is for Redditch to have the ex Preston Presidents to get rid of the two K reg DDs (even tho they are slightly more comfortable than a E300 going from Redditch to Evesham and back (I had a e300 out and City Kreg coming back in to Redditch)) this would then standardise more of the fleet. I would then put the 3 e300s at Kidder for the 3 and X3 the 3 54 reg ex FMR darts on the 303 newer Diamond full length darts shared between both Redditch and Kidder. As for the solos the 60/63 50/64 in Redditch could use them. But then again looking at the Redditch Standard this evenong there is more change on the way from Diamond. route changes are afoot or something that was hinted to me by the same spokeswomen when i had a breif chat with her, Signature and Royal brands are going to merge and all the buses currently in both brands are staying in the Diamond fleet.
The other problem is Rotala have gone to the same school of thinking as Calmac ferries, buying new ferries or rotala case buses in small or single units which make things slightly more expensive. Because Im sure Rotala and Yourbus could have both gone to Merc and said can we buy a batch of say 60 buses and would have had it cheaper than Yourbus going to buy 12 and Preston going to buy how ever many. And as for the MVCs well Rotala should never of bought them they should have looked at Centros or long E200's but then again that would have been a wee bit to simple.
Did NX though? Or was it all rumour.... If KR was the problem, they could have bought & quickly sold it on to Whittle's or simply closed it down.
Rotala & Yourbus are completely seperate businesses, the only link is the Dunn Family. Can't see Rotala buying Citaro's in any quantitiy
The MCV's were a stock built batch that were built some time ago & nobody else wanted, hence they were going cheap. Need I say more.......
With black diamond not sure on the 4/4H/4M PVR could be 15/16 with diamond and the 301 is 6 so these for me would be the two key services that operate 7 days a week and 6 evenings (301) 7 evenings (7) that need to see some sort of investment so around 25 new buses, then put the cadets on the 226/40/42/43 along with the 52 reg darts from yourbus then I would sell all the red and white diamond darts and any older black diamond darts off or at least send some to redditch to provide extra capacity on the services that need it there.
Quote from: Winston on March 09, 2013, 01:16:00 AM
Quote from: tank90 on March 09, 2013, 12:58:37 AM
NX did have a good sniff at Redditch, it could have been Kidder that put them off and not being able to buy Worcester and Hereford.
I have sent a message to Diamond saying I think it would be unwise to sell off the Enviro 300's and 10 DDs, because at the end of the day a E300 is a longer heavy weight Dart (all new E200s E300s E400s and E500 have the same cab layout and other features that are the same according to ADL) and the Presidents are again useful too. What would make sense is for Redditch to have the ex Preston Presidents to get rid of the two K reg DDs (even tho they are slightly more comfortable than a E300 going from Redditch to Evesham and back (I had a e300 out and City Kreg coming back in to Redditch)) this would then standardise more of the fleet. I would then put the 3 e300s at Kidder for the 3 and X3 the 3 54 reg ex FMR darts on the 303 newer Diamond full length darts shared between both Redditch and Kidder. As for the solos the 60/63 50/64 in Redditch could use them. But then again looking at the Redditch Standard this evenong there is more change on the way from Diamond. route changes are afoot or something that was hinted to me by the same spokeswomen when i had a breif chat with her, Signature and Royal brands are going to merge and all the buses currently in both brands are staying in the Diamond fleet.
The other problem is Rotala have gone to the same school of thinking as Calmac ferries, buying new ferries or rotala case buses in small or single units which make things slightly more expensive. Because Im sure Rotala and Yourbus could have both gone to Merc and said can we buy a batch of say 60 buses and would have had it cheaper than Yourbus going to buy 12 and Preston going to buy how ever many. And as for the MVCs well Rotala should never of bought them they should have looked at Centros or long E200's but then again that would have been a wee bit to simple.
Did NX though? Or was it all rumour.... If KR was the problem, they could have bought & quickly sold it on to Whittle's or simply closed it down.
Rotala & Yourbus are completely seperate businesses, the only link is the Dunn Family. Can't see Rotala buying Citaro's in any quantitiy
The MCV's were a stock built batch that were built some time ago & nobody else wanted, hence they were going cheap. Need I say more.......
Well I was told that in good faith by a driver.
Yes Rotala and Yourbus are both seperate but it doesnt stop small compnaies buying stock together to drive down the price tho.
And that would explain alot about the MCVs then.
Quote from: Ash on March 09, 2013, 01:13:28 AM
Quote from: Winston on March 09, 2013, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: richie on March 09, 2013, 12:06:04 AM
Quote from: Winston on March 08, 2013, 11:58:18 PM
Rotala have only expanded through taking on extra debt with RBS
Two organisations well suited to one another.
Now, now Richie...
There's alot worse operators than diamond/rotala. At least diamond provide some sort of competition as well as genuinely lower fares.
Rotala's Wessex & Preston operations seem pretty high quality/well run, but I would guess even those businesses aren't earning fantastic profit margins. Preston Bus were loss making when first acquired from Stagecoach. Rotala group turnover was £56.1 million at the year end result (up to 30th Nov 2012), while pre tax profit was under £2.1 Million, a margin of 3.7%, the bigger bus group want minimum of 10% margin. Rotala should really be earning more around the £5-6 million profit mark. Rotala do carry quite high levels of debt for a small group & have recently increased it further to purchase Wessex's Avonmouth depot & First's KR & RH business. Its high levels of debt that are currently causing First Group at lot of their problems.....
The only good thing I can say about those mcv evolutions were that they were powerful buses with excellent route branding for the 16 and 404E apart from that they were poor. Shame they went as they were new but I would rather travel on a black diamond cadet more room for the passenger.
Quote from: Ash on March 09, 2013, 01:08:11 AM
So this would mean all the buses in the signature branding and the 8 royale centros would merge to create another brand maybe with the leather hybrids.
And be shipped out of Tividale and more tat in its place as mentioned Diamond in the WM are losing out left right and centre may as well send the good stuff to where the money is made Wessex and Preston.
The problem with the royale diamond centro's and the signature buses is that they have these names on the head rests of the seats not that it would make much difference if they wanted to change the name on the exterior of the bus. I hope they don't move out of the West Midlands especially the citaro's as they are brilliant buses.
I agree but diamond have just stopped caring hope they do not go as well.
In regards to Solos on the X3 ... Its happened at least twice this week and this gives me reason to believe the 17:50 service from Redditch is booked to be a Solo.
Redditch lost a lot of First Drivers who simply haven't wanted to work for Diamond, over the years they have heard stories etc etc from the Diamond drivers and several have either moved to Worcester or another bus company.
On a positive note, Diamond have had an inspector in Redditch Bus Station all week and yesterday there were at least 3 Diamond staff around to help customers! This is more than First ever gave. Timetables on every stand in the Bus Station are now in the standard Diamond styling.
Quote from: jc on March 09, 2013, 11:54:56 PM
In regards to Solos on the X3 ... Its happened at least twice this week and this gives me reason to believe the 17:50 service from Redditch is booked to be a Solo.
Redditch lost a lot of First Drivers who simply haven't wanted to work for Diamond, over the years they have heard stories etc etc from the Diamond drivers and several have either moved to Worcester or another bus company.
On a positive note, Diamond have had an inspector in Redditch Bus Station all week and yesterday there were at least 3 Diamond staff around to help customers! This is more than First ever gave. Timetables on every stand in the Bus Station are now in the standard Diamond styling.
And leaflets in most buses, havent read one but have seen them.
Quote from: Discodave on March 09, 2013, 08:28:29 PM
I agree but diamond have just stopped caring hope they do not go as well.
They also appear to have stopped trying as well....
Quote from: Winston on March 10, 2013, 12:31:40 AM
Quote from: Discodave on March 09, 2013, 08:28:29 PM
I agree but diamond have just stopped caring hope they do not go as well.
They also appear to have stopped trying as well....
I agree partially with these comments and agree that certain aspects of the services/businesses need to change.
For example if diamond are offering cheaper return tickets compared to NXWM on the 4/4H/4M/16/40/50/301/401E and on the 226 not sure how much Hansons return is but I would be shouting about them, simple marketing advertise the return tickets on the bus as most services seem to see the same buses on each day. It's taking enough time but create one brand if it's diamond in the blue livery then stick by it but it has taken them several years to decide which colour to go for. Newer buses are being brought in gradually but large full sized darts are getting replaced with solo's and MPD's which is Ok for centro funded services but not for the 4 and 301. In terms of politeness I have found diamond drivers generally quite pleasant although like every company there's the ones that don't know what thank you is or any amenities of which the service goes past i.e schools, places of interest, hospitals etc. I was a big fan of the brands created nifty fifty, black country connection and shame most have now gone but I doubt even before Mr Dunn started Yourbus that we would have ended up with a diamond looking like trent barton.
I must admit to being no fan of Diamond but thank God they are no TrentBarton.
I cannot believe I can be the only person to loathe the black livery.........looks like a fleet of hearses,choose ONE livery (almost anything other than black) and stick with it.
From an operational point of view,could it be that Diamond would be better off consolidating in North Worcestershire and gradually withdrawing from Birmingham,Wolverhampton and Walsall.Surely,now Arriva have appeared on the scene it will be even more difficult to compete in these areas.
I could imagine a Diamond Bus Company with a compact area of Dudley,Stourbridge Kidderminster,Redditch etc being a more marketable and viable proposition than the present "try to serve everywhere" approach.
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 01:48:06 AM
Quote from: Winston on March 10, 2013, 12:31:40 AM
Quote from: Discodave on March 09, 2013, 08:28:29 PM
I agree but diamond have just stopped caring hope they do not go as well.
They also appear to have stopped trying as well....
I agree partially with these comments and agree that certain aspects of the services/businesses need to change.
For example if diamond are offering cheaper return tickets compared to NXWM on the 4/4H/4M/16/40/50/301/401E and on the 226 not sure how much Hansons return is but I would be shouting about them, simple marketing advertise the return tickets on the bus as most services seem to see the same buses on each day. It's taking enough time but create one brand if it's diamond in the blue livery then stick by it but it has taken them several years to decide which colour to go for. Newer buses are being brought in gradually but large full sized darts are getting replaced with solo's and MPD's which is Ok for centro funded services but not for the 4 and 301. In terms of politeness I have found diamond drivers generally quite pleasant although like every company there's the ones that don't know what thank you is or any amenities of which the service goes past i.e schools, places of interest, hospitals etc. I was a big fan of the brands created nifty fifty, black country connection and shame most have now gone but I doubt even before Mr Dunn started Yourbus that we would have ended up with a diamond looking like trent barton.
Ash,
The day returns are only targeted / benefit cash paying passengers, the majority of regular travellers/commuters will buy a bus pass which works out cheaper daily, more often than not it will be an NXWM pass. The guy responsible for the marketing & designing the various brands also left Diamond around the same time. I suspect Scott Dunn's hands were tied by Rotala HQ
Quote from: arrifirststage on March 10, 2013, 10:40:22 AM
I must admit to being no fan of Diamond but thank God they are no TrentBarton.
I cannot believe I can be the only person to loathe the black livery.........looks like a fleet of hearses,choose ONE livery (almost anything other than black) and stick with it.
From an operational point of view,could it be that Diamond would be better off consolidating in North Worcestershire and gradually withdrawing from Birmingham,Wolverhampton and Walsall.Surely,now Arriva have appeared on the scene it will be even more difficult to compete in these areas.
I could imagine a Diamond Bus Company with a compact area of Dudley,Stourbridge Kidderminster,Redditch etc being a more marketable and viable proposition than the present "try to serve everywhere" approach.
I agree with you there are quite a few people who love to go to Stourbridge , Merry hill, and Dudley , I know whittles do
a Stourbridge service but that is via Norton, there are people in Blakedown Hagley who love a service to those places
also the people from Kidderminster would love a direct service to Birmingham. and limited evening an sunday services
it don't matter what happens in the first few weeks of the Redditch and Kidderminster takeover whilst everyone is trying to get things set up. Its understandable. People need to realise that there is bound to be a few teething problems whilst it is being sorted out but the end product when those teething problems are sorted out, diamond could end up being a force to be reckoned with, that being a good thing.
Quote from: trainbasher on March 10, 2013, 12:07:23 PM
it don't matter what happens in the first few weeks of the Redditch and Kidderminster takeover whilst everyone is trying to get things set up. Its understandable. People need to realise that there is bound to be a few teething problems whilst it is being sorted out but the end product when those teething problems are sorted out, diamond could end up being a force to be reckoned with, that being a good thing.
A voice of reason. I have a 50/50 view of diamond they are good on some services like the 301/4 and most in west brom but vehicle allocations on good paying routes is dire and the fleet replacements they have had have gone elsewhere and replaced by small solos which are basically crap except on tendered routes. I hope Diamond do well in there new areas and yes give them a chance I have seen too many slagging them off on their FB page moments after they very first started. Maybe in about 3-6 months then a view of how things are going would be fairer then say a year a better picture of hows things are could be said. With regards to Arrivas takeover more of a view is given as they have failed with chase so now trying a second time you would expect them to have learned but only time will tell.
Quote from: trainbasher on March 10, 2013, 12:07:23 PM
it don't matter what happens in the first few weeks of the Redditch and Kidderminster takeover whilst everyone is trying to get things set up. Its understandable. People need to realise that there is bound to be a few teething problems whilst it is being sorted out but the end product when those teething problems are sorted out, diamond could end up being a force to be reckoned with, that being a good thing.
I realise what you are saying. I was only suggesting some things which I thought where missing bus wise in the Kidderminster area and where diamond might jump in before anyone else does ,
Quote from: bewminster on March 10, 2013, 12:04:30 PM
people from Kidderminster would love a direct service to Birmingham. and limited evening an sunday services
Yes please!
Quote from: arrifirststage on March 10, 2013, 10:40:22 AM
I must admit to being no fan of Diamond but thank God they are no TrentBarton.
I cannot believe I can be the only person to loathe the black livery.........looks like a fleet of hearses,choose ONE livery (almost anything other than black) and stick with it.
From an operational point of view,could it be that Diamond would be better off consolidating in North Worcestershire and gradually withdrawing from Birmingham,Wolverhampton and Walsall.Surely,now Arriva have appeared on the scene it will be even more difficult to compete in these areas.
I could imagine a Diamond Bus Company with a compact area of Dudley,Stourbridge Kidderminster,Redditch etc being a more marketable and viable proposition than the present "try to serve everywhere" approach.
Now arriva are on the scene? Is that a joke? If NXWM haven't pushed them off the 4,56 corridor,16,50 etc.If a monopoly operator can't kick off them, then how on earth a bus operator with a few Walsall services, and midland buyer, most of which is subsided, gonna do it?
Quote from: StourportSam on March 10, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: bewminster on March 10, 2013, 12:04:30 PM
people from Kidderminster would love a direct service to Birmingham. and limited evening an sunday services
Yes please!
Wouldn't people prefer to catch the train I'm guessing it would be quicker, i don't live in Kidderminster so wouldn't know.
Quote from: arrifirststage on March 10, 2013, 10:40:22 AM
I must admit to being no fan of Diamond but thank God they are no TrentBarton.
I cannot believe I can be the only person to loathe the black livery.........looks like a fleet of hearses,choose ONE livery (almost anything other than black) and stick with it.
From an operational point of view,could it be that Diamond would be better off consolidating in North Worcestershire and gradually withdrawing from Birmingham,Wolverhampton and Walsall.Surely,now Arriva have appeared on the scene it will be even more difficult to compete in these areas.
I could imagine a Diamond Bus Company with a compact area of Dudley,Stourbridge Kidderminster,Redditch etc being a more marketable and viable proposition than the present "try to serve everywhere" approach.
Diamond are not going to leave Walsall especially as the 4 and 301 operate there two key services for black diamond probably the two of the busiest services in red/black/blue diamond. Don't forget services like the 401E/4/40/42/43 to name a few have been operated by diamond predecessors for around 15-20 years and in some cases even more.
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 01:48:06 AM
Quote from: Winston on March 10, 2013, 12:31:40 AM
Quote from: Discodave on March 09, 2013, 08:28:29 PM
I agree but diamond have just stopped caring hope they do not go as well.
They also appear to have stopped trying as well....
I agree partially with these comments and agree that certain aspects of the services/businesses need to change.
For example if diamond are offering cheaper return tickets compared to NXWM on the 4/4H/4M/16/40/50/301/401E and on the 226 not sure how much Hansons return is but I would be shouting about them, simple marketing advertise the return tickets on the bus as most services seem to see the same buses on each day. It's taking enough time but create one brand if it's diamond in the blue livery then stick by it but it has taken them several years to decide which colour to go for. Newer buses are being brought in gradually but large full sized darts are getting replaced with solo's and MPD's which is Ok for centro funded services but not for the 4 and 301. In terms of politeness I have found diamond drivers generally quite pleasant although like every company there's the ones that don't know what thank you is or any amenities of which the service goes past i.e schools, places of interest, hospitals etc. I was a big fan of the brands created nifty fifty, black country connection and shame most have now gone but I doubt even before Mr Dunn started Yourbus that we would have ended up with a diamond looking like trent barton.
Hanson's 226 returns £2.20 and diamond is £2.50 neither advertise the fact, Hanson's used to. I have once bought a Hanson's return ticket and was great I once bought the diamond equivalent and the red wreck drove past me 10 mins early on an evening sponsored journey hence an expensive single journey 8 mins up the road.
At £2.20 surely not that much profit can be made out of the return ticket especially as its around an hour from Dudley to Merry Hill on the 226. With the same 4 darts on the diamond 226 daily and some needed for the evening service they must be getting some high mileage on them.
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: StourportSam on March 10, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: bewminster on March 10, 2013, 12:04:30 PM
people from Kidderminster would love a direct service to Birmingham. and limited evening an sunday services
Yes please!
Wouldn't people prefer to catch the train I'm guessing it would be quicker, i don't live in Kidderminster so wouldn't know.
the train is quicker if you want to go to the city centre, but if you want to get anywhere along the A456 hagley onwards like there is only the bus. and also if you do not live near Kidderminster rail station you have to get the bus to the station.
i would rather go by bus anytime than train
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 06:02:18 PM
Wouldn't people prefer to catch the train I'm guessing it would be quicker, i don't live in Kidderminster so wouldn't know.
Yes I would say the train is more comfortable, punctual, a lot quicker, etc. etc. I was referring to Sunday and evening services which in my view are needed in Wyre Forest, as before 2011 cuts.
The 192 used to run to Birmingham but was withdrawn and now is operated by Whittle from Stourport to Halesowen via Kidderminster and Hagley. Perhaps when it ran to Birmingham it was a loss maker??
I don't live in Kidderminster either but in Stourport which doesn't even have trains!
I think the problem i'm guessing was that the Halesowen to Birmingham section was covered by the 9 and guess that due to competing with NXWM very little custom came to the 192. It's going to take a while for diamond to settle in but I would think changes will occur and you never know a service like this may be introduced.
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 07:03:57 PM
I think the problem i'm guessing was that the Halesowen to Birmingham section was covered by the 9 and guess that due to competing with NXWM very little custom came to the 192. It's going to take a while for diamond to settle in but I would think changes will occur and you never know a service like this may be introduced.
when the 192 ran through to Birmingham fair enough at certain parts of the day the was not much custom, but there where
people from the wyre forest area that got on an off at bearwood, five ways and various or places along the hagley road
and people used to get on and off at these stops in or out of the city if the 192 got there before a 9
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
At £2.20 surely not that much profit can be made out of the return ticket especially as its around an hour from Dudley to Merry Hill on the 226. With the same 4 darts on the diamond 226 daily and some needed for the evening service they must be getting some high mileage on them.
Probably four of the worst buses in the fleet, with bodged interior repairs consisting of filler, glue,masking tape on the roof, missing grab bars on the 2 02 plates, and metal plates covering any broken bit of the ceiling, I'd say due for withdrawal soon, by any decent companies standards
Quote from: bususer12 on March 10, 2013, 10:54:12 PM
Quote from: Ash on March 10, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
At £2.20 surely not that much profit can be made out of the return ticket especially as its around an hour from Dudley to Merry Hill on the 226. With the same 4 darts on the diamond 226 daily and some needed for the evening service they must be getting some high mileage on them.
Probably four of the worst buses in the fleet, with bodged interior repairs consisting of filler, glue,masking tape on the roof, missing grab bars on the 2 02 plates, and metal plates covering any broken bit of the ceiling, I'd say due for withdrawal soon, by any decent companies standards
There's two midi 05 reg darts parked up at Tividale and quite a few V reg darts ex touchwood connection not sure the state of which these buses are on but surely some could be used to replace the darts that are in a bad condition like the ones on the 226.