Vivarail DMUs from District line D stock

[JoNi]

Vivarail have gone public their proposals to reuse components from London Underground on the hyperlink below

www.vivarail.co.uk/

[The Real 4778]

Vivarail have gone public their proposals to reuse components from London Underground on the hyperlink below

www.vivarail.co.uk/

When you say 'components,' we're referring to what are basically complete trains.  With some major components exchanged, replaced and modified.

[Bryan]

An interesting idea. I can imagine the DMUs could be a cheap and tempting alternative for companies presently operating Pacer units, as well as a potential improvement for passengers.

[JoNi]

The advantage they have is that D stock is passed for travelling on Network Rail lines due to it running to Richmond on the District Line.

[The Real 4778]

The advantage they have is that D stock is passed for travelling on Network Rail lines due to it running to Richmond on the District Line.

I would be surprised if that gives it nationwide network clearance.  The NYMR's Class 25 is passed to work between Grosmont and Whitby but that's its lot. 

I expect a vast amount of route acceptance work would be necessary before you can let D78s mix it with the big boys on the East and West Coast Main Lines, South Wales Main Line or indeed anywhere where ten and eleven coach trains are bearing down on you at 110+ MPH.

[tank90]

The advantage they have is that D stock is passed for travelling on Network Rail lines due to it running to Richmond on the District Line.

I would be surprised if that gives it nationwide network clearance.  The NYMR's Class 25 is passed to work between Grosmont and Whitby but that's its lot. 

I expect a vast amount of route acceptance work would be necessary before you can let D78s mix it with the big boys on the East and West Coast Main Lines, South Wales Main Line or indeed anywhere where ten and eleven coach trains are bearing down on you at 110+ MPH.

In fairness the Pacers and Class 150's/153's do it in Devon Cornwall and Bristol so why couldn't the D78 DEMU's?
As Viva are saying they can do 3/4 car sets they are going to be the same as 1 150 and a 153 or two 150's. It would help to even double up the 150's and return some 153s to 155s or which ever class they were split from.
Personally I think it's a great idea as we throw away to much and if like the d stock can be reused it should be. Yes new stock should be bought but this low cost solution will help in the short term ie for 20 years but we shouldn't say oh it shouldn't be done you can't mix high speed trains with slower ones, well you can that's what the down and up slow loops are for or some stations are four tracks wide or more so expresses or fast trains can over take stoppers or locals.

Dan.

[The Real 4778]

In fairness the Pacers and Class 150's/153's do it in Devon Cornwall and Bristol so why couldn't the D78 DEMU's?

As Viva are saying they can do 3/4 car sets they are going to be the same as 1 150 and a 153 or two 150's. It would help to even double up the 150's and return some 153s to 155s or which ever class they were split from.

Personally I think it's a great idea as we throw away to much and if like the d stock can be reused it should be.

Yes new stock should be bought but this low cost solution will help in the short term ie for 20 years but we shouldn't say oh it shouldn't be done you can't mix high speed trains with slower ones, well you can that's what the down and up slow loops are for or some stations are four tracks wide or more so expresses or fast trains can over take stoppers or locals.

Dan.

The 14X and 15X units have grandfather rights to operate on the network mixing it with HSTs, freights and the like.  D-stock does not have the same rights.  They will have to be route cleared and accepted to run anywhere they don't currently.  It is the ultimate responsibility of the Engineering Director of the TOC that this condition is met.

You ignore the fact that D78 stock is actually older than the stock it's proposed to replace, so in effect we're throwing away something newer, and there is huge resistance to London's cast-offs in the stakeholders that comprise Rail North. 

If D78s were able to last another 20 years I'd be interested to know how many Ford Transit engines they'd get through in that time!

I am well aware of four track sections and the mixed traffic railway.  Sadly accidents happen, which is why we saw Pacer 142008 destroyed at Hartford by 87027, Turbo 165115 obliterated by an HST at Ladbroke Grove, and a Mk4 DVT at Great Heck by a Class 66.  I would not wish to dial a D78 into one of these situations.

[Tony]

In fairness the Pacers and Class 150's/153's do it in Devon Cornwall and Bristol so why couldn't the D78 DEMU's?

As Viva are saying they can do 3/4 car sets they are going to be the same as 1 150 and a 153 or two 150's. It would help to even double up the 150's and return some 153s to 155s or which ever class they were split from.

Personally I think it's a great idea as we throw away to much and if like the d stock can be reused it should be.

Yes new stock should be bought but this low cost solution will help in the short term ie for 20 years but we shouldn't say oh it shouldn't be done you can't mix high speed trains with slower ones, well you can that's what the down and up slow loops are for or some stations are four tracks wide or more so expresses or fast trains can over take stoppers or locals.

Dan.

The 14X and 15X units have grandfather rights to operate on the network mixing it with HSTs, freights and the like.  D-stock does not have the same rights.  They will have to be route cleared and accepted to run anywhere they don't currently.  It is the ultimate responsibility of the Engineering Director of the TOC that this condition is met.

You ignore the fact that D78 stock is actually older than the stock it's proposed to replace, so in effect we're throwing away something newer, and there is huge resistance to London's cast-offs in the stakeholders that comprise Rail North. 

If D78s were able to last another 20 years I'd be interested to know how many Ford Transit engines they'd get through in that time!

I am well aware of four track sections and the mixed traffic railway.  Sadly accidents happen, which is why we saw Pacer 142008 destroyed at Hartford by 87027, Turbo 165115 obliterated by an HST at Ladbroke Grove, and a Mk4 DVT at Great Heck by a Class 66.  I would not wish to dial a D78 into one of these situations.

The age comparison of the D78s compared to the pacers is a bit unfair as almost everything below the solebar on the D78s is only about 10 years old. The only other thing that is being reused is the aluminium bodyshell which is fairly irrelevant as it has no rot and with a coat of paint on the outside and a completely new interior will come across as brand new anyway.

Network rail have said they will not need to do a new 'initial acceptance' I believe the individual cars are smaller than a class 156 so once the dynamic envelope has been checked I would imagine they will be cleared to run anywhere a 156 runs. The only things that actually need certifying are all the modification. I see they expect the first one to possibly be in service by December this year

[Tony]

Now a BMU

http://vivarail.co.uk/first-sight-vivarails-brand-new-battery-powered-test-train/

[mikestone]

Rather strange definition of brand new - I bet the writer of that press release wouldn't be too pleased if he bought a "brand new" car and found out it was ten years old with a new engine.