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In 1964, Midland Red Route X12 was Birmingham-Burton-Derby and 112 was Birmingham-Sutton Coldfield-Burton. 

At the same time most of 100-117 were variations of routes to or via Sutton Coldfield. The 110 to Tamworth, the 112 to Burton and the 116 to Tamworth (but via Curdworth and Kingsbury). Separately numbered 198 went to Tamworth but via Curdworth and Fazeley. 

WMPTE rationalised the ex Midland Red (Sutton Coldfield garage) and ex BCT (Miller Street garage) routes (a key route of Miller Street's was the 64 - Birmingham to the Yenton (City Boundary) via Erdington prior to that. 66 was Birmingham to Pype Hayes (City Boundary) via Tyburn Road at that time). 

The single grey colour saves a few hundred pounds over the two tone grey. As a trial a WN E400 was painted allover in the lighter grey, and an AG B7RLE was painted in the darker grey. Comments were made on social media about the WN one, but it appears initially no-one actually noticed the B7RLE. Both vehicles were taken to Digbeth Coach station for managers to look at along with the first ever two tone grey repaint. The colours were checked on the two tone bus to see if either tone had faded more than the other from the original spec and i was then decided all repaints would be in the darker grey

Thanks @Tony for the clarification. I suppose one advantage of having a slightly different livery variation on repaints is (presuming new deliveries of electric buses continue in two tone grey) it distinguishes the two. Having said that, and from the photos on this site it's sometimes, dependent on lighting conditions, difficult to differentiate the two tones of grey anyway!

I tend to agree with others that watering down the livery to one colour is a slightly retrograde step. And particularly when compared with some other operators around the country, using two colours and more complex graphics. I guess one has to work within the finance available and it's a balancing act. I must say although I like some of Ray Stenning's work, I'm not a massive fan of the current iterations of either Stagecoach or Arriva - although I guess they're distinctive and easily recognisable.

Will the application of one colour repaints increase the speed and throughput at the paint shop?

If I'm anything to go by, the only thought I've had is, why have occasional repaints appeared in one or other of the two tones of grey rather than the whole two tone livery? 

It's a slightly odd thing but not essential to get an answer though! Back in the 70s there were several occasional peculiar variations of fleet number location and livery application, but it transpired these were usually cock ups in the various paint shops (eg Walsall). 

As for 'I want a bus, I don't care about the colour' - the major groups are very conscious about image and brand, as are train operating companies and most commercial firms whatever their industry. In the bus industry this is so much so that many have employed commercial graphic designers at some expense to assist them. So I think it's quite wrong to assume this is not an important subject! 

I'm sure passengers do care, but of course there's little they can do about it. Some buses are less rattly and have far more refined and quiet engines and transmissions (and this can reflect the make of the bus as well). The journey can be so much better as a result.

Motor car manufacturers have spent large amounts making cars sound, especially to their occupants in certain ways - eg Minis with mild transmission whine, reminiscent of a classic Mini, similarly with a Mazda MX5 to sound like an MG Midget/MGB transmission. My own VW car has 'piped' engine sound when in race mode, to sound reminiscent of a Subaru or 5 cylinder VAG engine.

The reason electric and hydrogen vehicles make these sounds below 15 mph is the danger of pedestrians being caught out by them - this didn't used to be the case years ago, and for instance, a Toyota Prius taxi driving around a car park might suddenly and silently appear whilst a pedestrian is crossing an aisle, with serious injury potential to the pedestrian.

That said, these modern electric vehicles do have different sounds - I recall walking along and hearing what I thought was a Morrison electric milk float* coming up behind me - I was astonished when what passed by was an electric Mini.

(* only the older folk such as @Tony @Wumpty  @winston @windy miller on the forum will understand this, although there are a few such vehicles at Wythall. For the benefit of the younger generation like @Jack, @Wba_lad, they were absolutely everywhere in the 1950s, 60 and 70)!!

Back in the day, buses used to have their underside steam cleaned and then sprayed with a silver paint - presumably protective in some way. The Tyburn Road unit was right next to the road with full length glazing so you could see a bus at a time in there being dealt with. 

However back then, if you bought a new car you'd be expecting it to rust right through within five years unless it was treated with Waxoil or similar in the steel sections like doors and sub frames. Totally different from modern vehicle construction and protection. 

Is 170 double deckers enough to replace all deckers at YW and PB? In this current new batch.

Can see Walsall lurking in the corner eyeing up deckers

@Tony has only mentioned all PB's diesel double deckers being replaced - there are 99 currently (by my reckoning - which may or may not be accurate!! ) 🤣

Close, I've got the first of the honorary ALF passes

@Wumpty, my ALF permit arrived this morning - I paid the extra and got a nationwide one (although only England - doesn't cover Scotland, Wales or N Ireland). It also has exceptions - apparently travel on bus routes operated by the agricultural community (aka farm hands, run from  operating centres referred to as farms) are not included..... 😀😀🤣 

My understanding was that only vehicles expected to still be in service for another five years (from 2023) would get the grey repaint.

That takes us up to 2028. NX have set themselves a target of having a 100% zero emission fleet by 2030.

With the Eclipse 2 B7RLEs getting the grey treatment, that tells me the single decks will be the last to be replaced.

The earliest E400s won't last until 2028 I would imagine, though they've still got another few years left in them.

I thought the 4881 onwards vehicles were planned to get a refurb whereas the earlier E400s just a repaint (hence the 4830-4842 and 4763-4776 repaints). 

So whinge at tfwm and the contractors tgen

Indeed - it will be interesting to see their response. But did they insist on everyone involved keeping it secret (or to quote you - keeping advance info 'on a need to know basis')? 

LikLike I said organised by tfwm  with contractors having a big say on who was on there land/building site
Doubt museums will hold private events as they need the money to survive and pay for costly restorations and keep buses on the road in good condition
Oh and yes my son is a driver at pn

I guess it was down to TfWM etc, but it still seems a pity to make it 'exclusive' to the extent of the apparent secrecy in advance. 

Before veg start moaning they couldn't go it was a private event organised by tfwm with the contractors who are now in charge of the land/building site

Wasn't the Bishop available for this after all? 😀

Love the pictures in the newspaper and plenty of veg got in them @karl724223!!

Nice to see a D9 in the pics 👍

It's worth reflecting that many of the people involved with the museums and preserved buses here would have been referred to as 'veg' in yesteryear or its equivalent of the time, in the way some people are now - in my view it's a pity it was felt necessary to keep this event private - let's hope we don't get any repetition of 'private' heritage events - operating in private as well as public areas - I think the heritage movement need all the help they can get rather than operating as some sort of exclusive elite!!

Some say, that @karl724223 wants 2102 as it has ejector seats fitted for unruly passengers, and that the heritage livery is a distraction from the actual carbon fibre panels that he fitted for the body shop.

All we know, is that it's not The Stig, but it IS @karl724223  The Stig's bus driving cousin

I think I just may have sussed this - Sunday is both the closure date for Dudley bus station - and of course, it's the sabbath. I was wondering whether @karl724223 requires 2102 as the last bus ever to use the soon to be ex Dudley Bus Station photo shoot, combined with some sort of religious dedication of the heritage fleet bus 😵�💫👍😉

Or maybe it's just a mundane staff bus duty......

AG never get new buses? All those Scanias in 2010, all those B7RLES in 2012, 50 E200s in 2015 didn't happen then?

Similarly WB didn't get 33 brand new E400s in one go, then batches if E200s then the Platinums for the Dudley Road

True re the Platinums at WB for the 87, but although AG had the E200MMCs in 2015, that is getting on for 8 yrs ago, so that is possibly the observation. Similar for WA with their Platinums, and similar for WN? I guess AG's E400MMCs were relatively new when they received them but the 4636 batch of Geminis at AG are some of the oldest buses in the fleet now. 

....... Sit in the stalker seat

I think you drivers should campaign for the fitment of 'soundproof vanity screens' on buses like the 6789  avoid being overheard ordering your takeaway for collection at end of shift 🤣😀

Whilst the combined frequency over common sections of the route hasn't changed drastically, since TfWM recast the timetable to rationalise Diamond & NXWM services, the Diamond Pvr has dropped by -5 & IIRC NXWM's was similar at -5 or -6, so the 4 / 4H & 4M now see's at least 10 buses less.

The 4H has has seen the biggest reduction in frequency, down from 7 bph to 3 bph. Also Diamond now follow the NX route around Hayley Green / Hasbury, whereas Diamond 4H route which served all of the Hagley Road, part of this is no longer served by the 4H.

Thus gaps in services & bunching of buses is now far more noticeable.

Thank you @winston - that's quite a significant reduction - in the scenario that Diamond does not operate that's even more significant.

I know TfWM's aim was to eliminate wasteful competition (in terms of resources, which could be allocated elsewhere to overcome shortages), given the tendency for passenger numbers to continue to increase towards pre-Covid levels in many areas, it would appear TfWM may need to reconsider the timetable to try and iron out some of the problems. If the timetable stays as now, then discussion with Sandwell BC and NXWM to try and find a solution at the Parkway bridge in Bromford Lane, along with NXWM biting the bullet re dead bus journeys to/from Walsall garage via Bridgeman St (which they would need to relatively soon anyway even if they plan to operate zero emission single deckers at some stage) then the problems could be alleviated by changing to double deckers - and given NXWM has/will shortly have more than enough double deckers to eliminate the non Euro 6s, then either giving Walsall some electrics or cascading other Euro 6 double deckers there if only Birmingham is allowed to receive new EVs, could happen if solutions could be found.

The difficulties of going EV in terms of infrastructure are obvious, and particularly where the garage situation is fluctuating in Birmingham - however unless there are things we don't know, then Walsall, Wolverhampton and Pensnett surely would be reasonable candidates for phased introduction of EVs along with Birmingham garages like PB, YW etc?

I guess in an ideal world hydrogen would happen at Walsall but the technology and infrastructure support appears several years behind EV so unless NXWM is willing to wait with zero emission at Walsall (with no guarantee hydrogen becomes more than marginally reliable for the foreseeable) then implementing some EV would appear essential.