National Express West Midlands is investing £150 million in 300 UK-made electric zero emission buses, for delivery by the end of December 2024. The buses will be deployed across the West Midlands.
https://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/media/news-releases/2023/national-express-west-midlands-invests-record-150-million-in-300-uk-made-electric-zero-emission-buses/
Can NX spec them Autonomous, that will save the issue of no drivers....
Quote from: Tony on January 26, 2023, 05:46:11 PMNational Express West Midlands is investing £150 million in 300 UK-made electric zero emission buses, for delivery by the end of December 2024. The buses will be deployed across the West Midlands.
https://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/media/news-releases/2023/national-express-west-midlands-invests-record-150-million-in-300-uk-made-electric-zero-emission-buses/
Replace as many single deckers as possible ....... please !
QuoteReplace as many single deckers as possible ....... please !
A lot of these 300 'deckers will replace Scanias. The order is now more than 600 vehicles (130 for Coventry, 170 added on announced at Conservative party conference and this 300 + Sprint vehicles) and a large number of Scanias are in the 600 oldest buses in the fleet.
Quote from: Tony on January 26, 2023, 05:46:11 PMNational Express West Midlands is investing £150 million in 300 UK-made electric zero emission buses, for delivery by the end of December 2024. The buses will be deployed across the West Midlands.
https://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/media/news-releases/2023/national-express-west-midlands-invests-record-150-million-in-300-uk-made-electric-zero-emission-buses/
I don't suppose there's any indication yet on who will be supplying these? (ADL or Wrightbus?)
Also in that press release I found the following paragraph interesting:
QuoteA further 124 electric or hydrogen powered buses, including 24 articulated vehicles for the Sprint route on the A34 and A45, will be delivered next year through the Zero-Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) fund.
My emphasis in bold, as previous announcements have always indicated that this order of buses, including those for the Sprint routes, would be hydrogen fuelled, so is there perhaps some 'rolling back' on the hydrogen ambition now?
If 300 new buses can be delivered by the end of next year, that would see off most of the older fleet. There could also be opportunity to 'shrink' the single-deck fleet size, I wonder if NX would be open to the possibility of selling off some 'mid-life' vehicles such as the Wright Eclipse 2 B7RLEs.
Quote from: Tony on January 26, 2023, 07:04:37 PMA lot of these 300 'deckers will replace Scanias. The order is now more than 600 vehicles (130 for Coventry, 170 added on announced at Conservative party conference and this 300 + Sprint vehicles) and a large number of Scanias are in the 600 oldest buses in the fleet.
Nothing against the Scania OmniLinks but this is music to my ears! :laugh:
QuoteI don't suppose there's any indication yet on who will be supplying these? (ADL or Wrightbus?)
If 300 new buses can be delivered by the end of next year, that would see off most of the older fleet. There could also be opportunity to 'shrink' the single-deck fleet size, I wonder if NX would be open to the possibility of selling off some 'mid-life' vehicles such as the Wright Eclipse 2 B7RLEs.
I was told today it is a mix of ADL & Wrights.
It's 600, not 300 (including the 130 for Coventry) hence the statement about 40% of the fleet
Going to be interesting to see what model's are chosen
QuoteGoing to be interesting to see what model's are chosen
I've put a mix of Wrights and ADL so not too much working out needed.
Quote from: Tony on January 26, 2023, 07:12:02 PMI was told today it is a mix of ADL & Wrights.
It's 600, not 300 (including the 130 for Coventry) hence the statement about 40% of the fleet
Good to finally see the return of dual sourcing from 2 manufacturers again for large scale orders. Will also be good to see the return of Wrightbus vehicles in decent quantities.
This is outstanding would be nice too see maybe a step back to mecedes as the recent evaluation of the citaro seems to have gone down a treat... maybe for single deck routes such as the Bournville route (I wanna say the 27 but not from that side of town) and potentially the 4 series on the Blackheath to Walsall corridor.
Can see a very interesting few months ahead.
Quote from: Stu on January 26, 2023, 07:07:50 PMI don't suppose there's any indication yet on who will be supplying these? (ADL or Wrightbus?)
Also in that press release I found the following paragraph interesting:My emphasis in bold, as previous announcements have always indicated that this order of buses, including those for the Sprint routes, would be hydrogen fuelled, so is there perhaps some 'rolling back' on the hydrogen ambition now?
If 300 new buses can be delivered by the end of next year, that would see off most of the older fleet. There could also be opportunity to 'shrink' the single-deck fleet size, I wonder if NX would be open to the possibility of selling off some 'mid-life' vehicles such as the Wright Eclipse 2 B7RLEs.
At the bottom of the article, it says a further 100 electric-or-hydrogen powered buses and 24 articulated buses are due by the end of 2024 through the ZEBRA funding. I don't think those are included in the above figures.
Quote from: that articleA further 124 electric or hydrogen powered buses, including 24 articulated vehicles for the Sprint route on the A34 and A45, will be delivered next year through the Zero-Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) fund. This is in addition to the investment by private bus operators as they renew their fleets for the zero-emission future.
Quote from: ellspurs on January 26, 2023, 07:52:57 PMAt the bottom of the article, it says a further 100 electric-or-hydrogen powered buses and 24 articulated buses are due by the end of 2024 through the ZEBRA funding. I don't think those are included in the above figures.
Yes, I know that, hence why I quoted that bit.
I was curious about the choice of "electric or hydrogen" wording, as previous announcements had intimated that particular order would have been all hydrogen vehicles.
Despite the 'pilot scheme' ending in September last year, NX still don't seem to be able to deploy all 20 hydrogen buses in service together, so I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up abandoning this 'project' if they felt that electric buses were the better long-term investment. It would of course mean handing those 20 vehicles back to Birmingham City Council and letting them figure out what to do with them.
Sorry, I managed to not see that part of your reply.
This would probably see off all the remaining Geminis and ALX400s. Hopefully NX have also gone for Electroliners + Hydroliners.
QuoteI've put a mix of Wrights and ADL so not too much working out needed.
Any possibility of E200EVs?
I'm assuming all these new electrics will significantly reduce NXWM's operating costs going forward in addition to their green creditials?
Interesting to see that the 124 Hydrogen's may now be either Electric or Hydrogen, can't believe the original 20 x Hydrogen DD's still can't all be in service together from WA.
Good to hear that the proportion of single deckers in the fleet will be reduced.
Do we know what the problem is still why we cant get all 20 out?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 26, 2023, 07:01:54 PMReplace as many single deckers as possible ....... please !
Yeah can't wait for lower frequencies but as long as it's got two decks :rolleyes:
This huge investment is good news.
I see NX's Tom Stables is quoted as saying " These clean, green UK double decker buses are popular with customers ..." This comment seems to refer to the existing electrics in the fleet, but does it mean that all 300 will be double decks?
Also, interesting to see no mention of Zenobe.
Quote from: WalsallBuses2007 on January 26, 2023, 08:54:43 PMDo we know what the problem is still why we cant get all 20 out?
Had the day off & came back from Birmingham on one.
Very quiet aren't they?
Quote from: Straightlines on January 26, 2023, 09:08:23 PMYeah can't wait for lower frequencies but as long as it's got two decks :rolleyes:
Much better for passengers than being shoe horned on to single deckers....
Quote from: winston on January 26, 2023, 09:16:52 PMMuch better for passengers than being shoe horned on to single deckers....
No shoe horning if you get the frequencies right!
Quote from: Straightlines on January 26, 2023, 09:19:42 PMNo shoe horning if you get the frequencies right!
You need the drivers first, before you worry about getting the frequencies right!
Plus some single deck routes are during the day, but struggle to cope at Peak times, where DD's would be more appropriate....
Quote from: winston on January 26, 2023, 09:22:36 PMYou need the drivers first, before you worry about getting the frequencies right!
Plus some single deck routes are during the day, but struggle to cope at Peak times, where DD's would be more appropriate....
The driver point is arbitrary, you only have to look at more successful bus networks in Europe and how many double deckers they have!
QuoteYou need the drivers first, before you worry about getting the frequencies right!
Plus some single deck routes are during the day, but struggle to cope at Peak times, where DD's would be more appropriate....
8A/8C is a great example but cannot have deckers
Quote from: BBS on January 26, 2023, 09:54:07 PM8A/8C is a great example but cannot have deckers
I can remember the Inner Circle having Metrobuses on it, from about thirty years ago. What's the difference in the route between then and now?
Quote from: Straightlines on January 26, 2023, 09:27:46 PMThe driver point is arbitrary, you only have to look at more successful bus networks in Europe and how many double deckers they have!
A lot of those European ops have fleets of Artics in lieu of double deckers, artics aren't suited to UK operations!
QuoteI can remember the Inner Circle having Metrobuses on it, from about thirty years ago. What's the difference in the route between then and now?
Bridge in Sparkbrook now has a lower height restriction
Quote from: Tony on January 26, 2023, 10:16:47 PMBridge in Sparkbrook now has a lower height restriction
Aren't those E400 EVs allowed under that bridge and likewise the Sutton Line E400 MMCs currently at Perry Barr? So one day could have deckers again perhaps.
The height restrictions the same as the one the 5 goes under at Hall Green I think, which sees E400 MMC daily?
I thought the sprint buses was due this year & if BC get the new buses this year will the sprint start this year & then replace the deckers on the sprint with the new bendibuses
QuoteI thought the sprint buses was due this year & if BC get the new buses this year will the sprint start this year & then replace the deckers on the sprint with the new bendibuses
BC won't get new buses this year as stated before you're not going to put the expensive infrastructure in a garage due to close
Quote from: Tony on January 27, 2023, 07:11:14 AMBC won't get new buses this year as stated before you're not going to put the expensive infrastructure in a garage due to close
Yardley Wood and Perry Barr more likely then
I'm pleased to read 'All British'. The current delivery are ADL-bodied BYDs, with those BYD chassis made in China. ADL is developing its own battery electric chassis. I think the Wright Electroliner is already all British.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 27, 2023, 07:42:41 AMYardley Wood and Perry Barr more likely then
The press release mentions 'across the West Midlands', so not necessarily just Birmingham garages.
Tony has stated that the intention is to replace the Scanias, but then again there may not be like-for-like replacements, and cascades could see some Scania OmniLinks at certain garages get E200s or B7RLEs as replacements for example.
QuoteThe press release mentions 'across the West Midlands', so not necessarily just Birmingham garages.
Tony has stated that the intention is to replace the Scanias, but then again there may not be like-for-like replacements, and cascades could see some Scania OmniLinks at certain garages get E200s or B7RLEs as replacements for example.
Most likely replacing WB, WN, WA, AG, YW old tridents and Geminis
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 27, 2023, 07:42:41 AMYardley Wood and Perry Barr more likely then
Perry barr i hope tbh too many omnilinks end up on busy double deck services at peak times lol
Just list all the garages and you will never be wrong :rolleyes:
Quote from: BBS on January 27, 2023, 03:34:06 PMMost likely replacing WB, WN, WA, AG, YW old tridents and Geminis
Well yeah that is what is already happening with the arrival of the EVs into Coventry.
Don't forget that before the end of next year, some of the earliest OmniLink examples will have reached 17 years old.
Quote from: EK40 on January 27, 2023, 03:42:47 PMPerry barr i hope tbh too many omnilinks end up on busy double deck services at peak times lol
Same issue over at YW, especially on the 2 and 3 services.
It's been known for some time that the overall NX fleet has more single decks than actually needed, so there's some crumb of comfort knowing this imbalance will be redressed by the end of next year.
Surely the infrastructure as to be in place for electric and hydrogen buses to charge up.
Quote from: Ginger66 on January 29, 2023, 12:51:29 PMSurely the infrastructure as to be in place for electric and hydrogen buses to charge up.
And your point is?
I'm sure the people placing these orders know that.
Will West Bromwich get electric buses ? Is the garaged planned to be moved ?
Quote from: Jack6101 on January 29, 2023, 04:19:32 PMWill West Bromwich get electric buses ? Is the garaged planned to be moved ?
I'm pretty sure there was some comment here before about WB garage having some work done to upgrade the mains power supply to facilitate future installation of EV charging stations, but I may be mistaken, happy to be corrected.
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2023, 02:33:43 PMAnd your point is?
I'm sure the people placing these orders know that.
How's route 51 going? 😜
Quote from: Gareth on January 29, 2023, 06:48:17 PMHow's route 51 going? 😜
The infrastructure is there. It's the possibility of a large increase in Hydrogen costs, and the driver shortage that is meaning only 6 are used each day at the moment
Which is cheaper to run electric or hydrogen
Quote from: Solo1 on January 29, 2023, 09:55:27 PMWhich is cheaper to run electric or hydrogen over desil
Well if it's hydrogen we're screwed If they can't afford to run more than 6 buses a day.
With 600 electrics in service by end of next year, I'd imagine they're cheaper.
Quote from: Gareth on January 29, 2023, 10:12:19 PMWell if it's electric, we're screwed with 600 of the things coming by next year If they can't afford to run more than 6 hydrogen buses a day.
I don't see the link
If Hydrogen goes up to £40 per kilo which there's worries it might it makes the Buses extremely expensive to run. Whereas electricity at 10p per k/w is much cheaper than diesel
Anyone read Nx's Facebook page today?
A 'regular contributer' has had his say over the hydrogens.
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2023, 10:16:43 PMI don't see the link
If Hydrogen goes up to £40 per kilo which there's worries it might it makes the Buses extremely expensive to run. Whereas electricity at 10p per k/w is much cheaper than diesel
Presumably,this increasing cost will impact future sales and interest from other operators?
Quote from: Tony on January 29, 2023, 08:50:59 PMThe infrastructure is there. It's the possibility of a large increase in Hydrogen costs, and the driver shortage that is meaning only 6 are used each day at the moment
Will AG get Electrics or Hydrogens at all ?
Im interested to see how they cope with 11A/11C which reminds me, are they keeping it as it is on 11A/11C or are they going to reconnect the full route ?
with so many buses now using City Road . Dudley Road, is it not time to make a small change to the 11A/11C (city rd, portland rd, gillott rd, selwyn rd, city rd then normal line of route) just an idea
QuoteWill AG get Electrics or Hydrogens at all ?
Im interested to see how they cope with 11A/11C which reminds me, are they keeping it as it is on 11A/11C or are they going to reconnect the full route ?
with so many buses now using City Road . Dudley Road, is it not time to make a small change to the 11A/11C (city rd, portland rd, gillott rd, selwyn rd, city rd then normal line of route) just an idea
4/4A needs the upgrade most imo
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on February 02, 2023, 09:47:20 PMWill AG get Electrics or Hydrogens at all ?
Im interested to see how they cope with 11A/11C which reminds me, are they keeping it as it is on 11A/11C or are they going to reconnect the full route ?
with so many buses now using City Road . Dudley Road, is it not time to make a small change to the 11A/11C (city rd, portland rd, gillott rd, selwyn rd, city rd then normal line of route) just an idea
AG will be electric, hydrogens can't be kept inside buildings.
Quote from: filbus1 on February 03, 2023, 08:56:50 AMAG will be electric, hydrogens can't be kept inside buildings.
So if the hydrogen buses need repair how do they fix them outside
Quote from: filbus1 on February 03, 2023, 08:56:50 AMAG will be electric, hydrogens can't be kept inside buildings.
Hydrogens can be parked inside in a garage with the correct ventilation which a lot of older garage have to let the diesel fumes out.
Quote from: SUNDAY.BASH on February 02, 2023, 09:47:20 PMWill AG get Electrics or Hydrogens at all ?
Im interested to see how they cope with 11A/11C which reminds me, are they keeping it as it is on 11A/11C or are they going to reconnect the full route ?
with so many buses now using City Road . Dudley Road, is it not time to make a small change to the 11A/11C (city rd, portland rd, gillott rd, selwyn rd, city rd then normal line of route) just an idea
The whole fleet will be zero emission within a few years, so even if a garage doesn't get anything new this time, it's only a matter of time.
Quote from: BBS on February 03, 2023, 12:38:44 AM4/4A needs the upgrade most imo
i never suggested AG or the 11A / 11C needed an upgrade, i merely stated a fact that i would be interested to see how the Electrics or Hydrogens would cope with life on there
Quotei never suggested AG or the 11A / 11C needed an upgrade, i merely stated a fact that i would be interested to see how the Electrics or Hydrogens would cope with life on there
AG generally does need a upgrade, they have loads of non euro 6 buses which seem to slowly be leaving the fleet
Quote from: BBS on February 03, 2023, 08:07:05 PMAG generally does need a upgrade, they have loads of non euro 6 buses which seem to slowly be leaving the fleet
The non-EU6 vehicles will need to be gone by May this year, so I'm pretty sure there's already a plan to deal with those few remaining at AG as well as other garages.