Did I read correctly the engineers might be going on strike as they as upset about the drivers pay rise in relation to theres.
Yes you did lets hope nx can get cover fast in case it happens
https://www-birminghammail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/bus-chaos-threat-nearly-200-25747801.amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16710214570009&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.birminghammail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmidlands-news%2Fbus-chaos-threat-nearly-200-25747801
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on December 14, 2022, 01:32:40 PMYes you did lets hope nx can get cover fast in case it happens
https://www-birminghammail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/bus-chaos-threat-nearly-200-25747801.amp?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16710214570009&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.birminghammail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmidlands-news%2Fbus-chaos-threat-nearly-200-25747801
Things not going too well for NXWM at the moment...
Shared the details to my sister, so if you hear an 'explosion' in Wednesfield, she's read my text!
It's not like the engineers are paid a pittance. I just checked the careers part of the National Express group website.
Bus drivers start on £11.80 per hour, rising to £14.80 depending on experience or time served.
Engineering technicians can earn between £16.50 - £22.50 per hour dependent on experience.
In my opinion, a 10.1% pay increase is not to be sniffed at, and the engineers have to appreciate that the drivers are being offered a 14% increase in order to stop them leaving the company, and to attract more drivers to fill the current shortfall and then retain them.
It must also be pointed out that at this point in time, although union members have voted in favour of strike action, it hasn't been formalised yet, so this is just very much at the 'threat' stage, and may not actually happen.
Seems childish to me, only got 2% pay increase this year.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on December 14, 2022, 07:47:18 PMSeems childish to me, only got 2% pay increase this year.
I only got 2.5% where I work. Plus £750 cost if living bonus to help me out.
Quote from: Stu on December 14, 2022, 07:25:25 PMIt's not like the engineers are paid a pittance. I just checked the careers part of the National Express group website.
Bus drivers start on £11.80 per hour, rising to £14.80 depending on experience or time served.
Engineering technicians can earn between £16.50 - £22.50 per hour dependent on experience.
In my opinion, a 10.1% pay increase is not to be sniffed at, and the engineers have to appreciate that the drivers are being offered a 14% increase in order to stop them leaving the company, and to attract more drivers to fill the current shortfall and then retain them.
It must also be pointed out that at this point in time, although union members have voted in favour of strike action, it hasn't been formalised yet, so this is just very much at the 'threat' stage, and may not actually happen.
Well worded.
Also bear in mind drivers and engineers are two different kinds of job. Drivers are out there dealing with the public, traffic, road users etc
Quote from: Stu on December 14, 2022, 07:25:25 PMIt's not like the engineers are paid a pittance. I just checked the careers part of the National Express group website.
Bus drivers start on £11.80 per hour, rising to £14.80 depending on experience or time served.
Engineering technicians can earn between £16.50 - £22.50 per hour dependent on experience.
In my opinion, a 10.1% pay increase is not to be sniffed at, and the engineers have to appreciate that the drivers are being offered a 14% increase in order to stop them leaving the company, and to attract more drivers to fill the current shortfall and then retain them.
It must also be pointed out that at this point in time, although union members have voted in favour of strike action, it hasn't been formalised yet, so this is just very much at the 'threat' stage, and may not actually happen.
And you don't think engineers might look to leave the company? Vocational engineers are highly sought after at the moment, even more so than drivers.
I'm not gonna comment on the proposed pay package, or the motivations behind striking, because I don't feel like it's my place
I just hope both parties come to an agreement so that passenger services aren't affected
Drivers not been offered 14% wrong info being given out
Quote from: karl724223 on December 15, 2022, 08:55:10 PMDrivers not been offered 14% wrong info being given out
Higher than that then !?
Quote from: metrocity on December 15, 2022, 09:05:30 PMHigher than that then !?
not commenting on that as drivers wage negotiations are still ongoing
wish i knew who the sources are, drivers pay talks UNITE rejected 14% in the papers ,15% from other sources blah blah, we driver,s haven't heard a bean from UNITE
Drivers have rejected NX final so called pay offer by a whopping 95% , now down to NX to improve the offer or we strike
Quote from: 2900 on January 14, 2023, 06:39:13 AMDrivers have rejected NX final so called pay offer by a whopping 95% , now down to NX to improve the offer or we strike
Thought it was the garage staff not the drivers that wasn't happy with the pay?
Quote from: PB50 on January 14, 2023, 09:45:11 AMThought it was the garage staff not the drivers that wasn't happy with the pay?
Its both now !
Quote from: metrocity on January 14, 2023, 09:48:46 AMIts both now !
Oh I see. Express and Star are saying they have been offered a 14% increase which obviously the drivers are not happy about. Do we know what % the drivers want to avoid strike action?
Quote from: PB50 on January 14, 2023, 01:35:35 PMOh I see. Express and Star are saying they have been offered a 14% increase which obviously the drivers are not happy about. Do we know what % the drivers want to avoid strike action?
Based on Last year and if you go back a few years before that the % just keeps going up.
Quote from: 2900 on January 14, 2023, 06:39:13 AMDrivers have rejected NX final so called pay offer by a whopping 95% , now down to NX to improve the offer or we strike
That will be something to look forward too if both NX drivers & engineers are potentially striking, along with all the other strikers....
I understand yesterday in Dudley there were 17 NX buses parked up with no drivers....
Offered 14% and not accepted seems a tad greedy to me, if that offer is true .
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 14, 2023, 03:10:29 PMOffered 14% and not accepted seems a tad greedy to me, if that offer is true .
That's unions for you!
14% seems reasonable to me, but the unions will always try and push for more.
Wage increases mean that overall operating costs will also go up, this at the same time as bus operators are expected to keep their fares frozen until 2025, while passenger numbers are not increasing in the numbers required.
The end result? Either fares will have to go up, or more services will have to be cut back, and drivers made redundant, in order to minimise potential losses.
Its a vicious circle - wages may go up, but wages are a cost to any business, and if their operating costs increase, then the price of their good/services offered also increases.
Arriva Telford are recruiting... in Solihull
Slightly misleading headline but Integrated Solutions (agency) are approaching bus drivers (NX/LandFlight and even Stagecoach lol) in Solihull today promising a net pay of £1100 a week over 5 days and up to £170 in fuel costs and accommodation if necessary. First time I've seen a firm/agency trying to poach drivers in person.
It's for Arriva Telford.
Quote from: MW on January 14, 2023, 04:33:30 PMArriva Telford are recruiting... in Solihull
Slightly misleading headline but Integrated Solutions (agency) are approaching bus drivers (NX/LandFlight and even Stagecoach lol) in Solihull today promising a net pay of £1100 a week over 5 days and up to £170 in fuel costs and accommodation if necessary. First time I've seen a firm/agency trying to poach drivers in person.
It's for Arriva Telford.
Is there not rules about doing that?
Arriva Driver recruitment website rates:
https://arrivabusjobs.co.uk/search-careers/?job_id=R-023971_1671325444 Arriva Amwythig/Croesoswallt, £12.00/hour.
https://arrivabusjobs.co.uk/search-careers/?job_id=R-023128_1672448488 Arriva Thurmaston £13.70/hour for experienced drivers.
They are lower than the rates on offer on the NX recruitment site:
https://careers.nationalexpress.com/search/1883 NX "Black Country" £14.40/hour for experienced drivers.
https://careers.nationalexpress.com/search/1879 NX Coventry £14.90/hour for experienced drivers.
Integrated Solutions seem to be a company from the south. Bit weird for them to be recruiting for Arriva Telford. The wages they're quoting for London bus jobs don't get anywhere near what has been quoted above.
https://www.intsolutions.co.uk/jobs/
Quote from: Stu on January 14, 2023, 04:30:11 PMThat's unions for you!
14% seems reasonable to me, but the unions will always try and push for more.
Wage increases mean that overall operating costs will also go up, this at the same time as bus operators are expected to keep their fares frozen until 2025, while passenger numbers are not increasing in the numbers required.
The end result? Either fares will have to go up, or more services will have to be cut back, and drivers made redundant, in order to minimise potential losses.
Its a vicious circle - wages may go up, but wages are a cost to any business, and if their operating costs increase, then the price of their good/services offered also increases.
Agree what you are saying, if bus drivers do strike it could lead to areas been isolated as passengers cannot commute to visit friends and it will also have an effect on local towns who are also coming out of the pandemic and need financial that much needed boost.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 14, 2023, 03:10:29 PMOffered 14% and not accepted seems a tad greedy to me, if that offer is true .
There could be more to do with it than just the rate. Conditions, promise of no redundancies beyond 2023 etc
Quote from: ellspurs on January 14, 2023, 05:05:41 PMArriva Driver recruitment website rates:
They are lower than the rates on offer on the NX recruitment site:
https://careers.nationalexpress.com/search/1883 NX "Black Country" £14.40/hour for experienced drivers.
https://careers.nationalexpress.com/search/1879 NX Coventry £14.90/hour for experienced drivers.
Why are Coventry garage drivers paid more than the rest of the company? Things like this don't help when there's unrest about wages within a company.
Quote from: Gareth on January 14, 2023, 07:10:32 PMWhy are Coventry garage drivers paid more than the rest of the company? Things like this don't help when there's unrest about wages within a company.
Wasn't there different conditions for the ex Midland Red garages back in the mists of time?
Quote from: Westy on January 14, 2023, 07:22:53 PMWasn't there different conditions for the ex Midland Red garages back in the mists of time?
Coventry wasn't midland red. And both Coventry transport and midland red are going back almost 50 years.
Quote from: Gareth on January 14, 2023, 07:10:32 PMWhy are Coventry garage drivers paid more than the rest of the company? Things like this don't help when there's unrest about wages within a company.
Coventry had the worst driver shortages next to Walsall garage.
Quote from: winston on January 14, 2023, 09:51:12 PMCoventry had the worst driver shortages next to Walsall garage.
Doesn't really answer why there's such a big pay difference. Walsall drivers may now argue they should be on £14.80 because they're short of drivers too? No wonder staff aren't happy.
Quote from: Gareth on January 14, 2023, 09:27:27 PMCoventry wasn't midland red. And both Coventry transport and midland red are going back almost 50 years.
Unfortunately, 50 years in the past is where many unions still think we are - let's still have the same perks of the job from then but massively increase wages too to a financially unsustainable level.
I've experienced many different daft working practices left over from past times, eg 4 out of 5 day working on (Mon to Fri) never having to work weekends for 'grandad' drivers who had been there a while. No wonder new drivers never stuck around long as they were always given the sh*t rotas and duties. Unions never kicked up a fuss about the unfairness of that though (surprise surprise!)
As for the different wages at different garages, a lot of factors come into play snd it is not as simple as just comparing like for like. Also that rate is for experienced drivers, the starting rate for new drivers is likely to be the same at any garage.
To be fair to NX, if the rumoured 14% offer is true, that puts the experienced driver rate at well over £16 per hour. I'd be a little worried if I was another of the local operators having to compete with rates like that in today's market.
Quote from: j789 on January 15, 2023, 12:46:17 AMTo be fair to NX, if the rumoured 14% offer is true, that puts the experienced driver rate at well over £16 per hour. I'd be a little worried if I was another of the local operators having to compete with rates like that in today's market.
The reality is, the other operators are largely focused on TfWM contracts. Ultimately, the increased costs fall on the tax payer in this sector.
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 08:40:03 AMThe reality is, the other operators are largely focused on TfWM contracts. Ultimately, the increased costs fall on the tax payer in this sector.
TO STOP ALL THE GUESS WORK THE OFFER WHICH WAS REJECTED BY 95% OF UNION MEMBERS IS £15.57 TOP RATE
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 08:40:03 AMThe reality is, the other operators are largely focused on TfWM contracts. Ultimately, the increased costs fall on the tax payer in this sector.
There's too much greed out there and it seems union bosses like Mike Lynch care more about causing disruption rather than the public that rely on services to get to work, get to hospital appointments or visit friends and family.
I think another member summoned it up "Fares will go up" "Services cut back" and in the end you will see train or bus companies folding as they can't afford to run services if passengers are priced off the buses.
If the strikes do go ahead it will have an effect not only workers can't get to work but also for schools as not all pupils go to local schools.
Quote from: 2900 on January 15, 2023, 09:02:38 AMFolks don't believe everything you read in the press, 14% pay rise is based on what top drivers were getting Jan 2022 since then new TERMS AND CONDITIONS have been passed through which IMO does'nt benefit any driver whos been with NX more than 5 years, drivers basic pay cut from 38 hrs to 36 hrs 15 to 37 hrs 15 NX number cruncher's readjusted The hourly rate ETC ETC, the 7 hrs 36 average duty payment is gone, from when new terms finally start end of Jan early Feb, its now what i call PAY AS YOU GO DUTIES Mon to Sat and Sundays is now 7 hrs 15 average duty payment, many of us long serving drivers feel CONNED by the new terms and conditions, we rejected this style of duties last April but NX with very clever use of wording and i kept saying a STING is coming and it has big time.
we don,t even have an overtime rate, NX DID introduce an enhanced pay from Nov 21 during driver shortage to encourage drivers to do overtime etc but that is now withdrawn now. For me now no incentive to do so now.
Basically drivers been here only a few years got FAST TRACKED TO TOP RATE AND SAW HEADLINES OF £14.40
WHAT MAKES ME LAUGH IS <redacted for privacy> WAS PART OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS TALKS, THE MAN WAS SPARED A JAIL SENTENCE AT HIS PREVIOUS EMPLOYER GWR FOR FRAUDULENT EXSPENSES CLAIMS GOOGLE IT AND NX HEAD HUNTED HIM, REALLY WE GONNA TRUST THIS MAN YEAH RITE
ON SUNDAYS WITH THE NEW STYLE 7 HRS 15 DUTIES I AM £3 a duty worse off may not sound like a lot but that is what its costs me to keep warm in winter at McDONALDS during breaks cause NX have so far refused a restroom only been 20 years
Quote from: Ginger66 on January 15, 2023, 09:14:47 AMThere's too much greed out there and it seems union bosses like Mike Lynch care more about causing disruption rather than the public that rely on services to get to work, get to hospital appointments or visit friends and family.
I think another member summoned it up "Fares will go up" "Services cut back" and in the end you will see train or bus companies folding as they can't afford to run services if passengers are priced off the buses.
If the strikes do go ahead it will have an effect not only workers can't get to work but also for schools as not all pupils go to local schools.
Are Bus Drivers greedy really , NX HAS A MASSIVE STAFF RETENTION PROBLEM and when these new terms and conditions kick in only going to get worse , Last 18 months many left for the waggons and love it.
Quote from: 2900 on January 15, 2023, 09:25:20 AMAre Bus Drivers greedy really , NX HAS A MASSIVE STAFF RETENTION PROBLEM and when these new terms and conditions kick in only going to get worse , Last 18 months many left for the waggons and love it.
I said union bosses. 14% is a good offer.
Where I work we only had a 2.5% pay rise.
Quote from: Gareth on January 14, 2023, 07:10:32 PMWhy are Coventry garage drivers paid more than the rest of the company? Things like this don't help when there's unrest about wages within a company.
Perhaps because it's closer to London?! Seriously I think it's down to Coventry having joined WMPTE later despite the passage of time. Can't think of anything else that might factor into the disparity.
Looks like its definitely on the cards now...
National Express bus drivers' strike vote almost unanimous after pay offer rejectedhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2023/01/15/national-express-bus-drivers-strike-vote-almost-unanimous-after-pay-offer-rejected/QuoteUnite the Union has written to its members, following the ballot on Thursday and Friday, telling them that 95.7 per cent rejected the company's final offer and were in favour of strike action (https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/dudley/2023/01/13/bus-drivers-in-west-midlands-to-strike-in-row-over-pay/).
QuoteThere's too much greed out there and it seems union bosses like Mike Lynch care more about causing disruption
Plenty of greed out there. Last I heard, the NX CEO was on £575k, but feel free to blame Mick & the Drivers.
You said you got a ONLY got a 2.5% increase. Ah, the politics of envy. Perhaps you should've joined a union with a decent leader?
Quote from: Isle of Stroma on January 15, 2023, 10:44:11 AMPlenty of greed out there. Last I heard, the NX CEO was on £575k, but feel free to blame Mick & the Drivers.
You said you got a ONLY got a 2.5% increase. Ah, the politics of envy. Perhaps you should've joined a union with a decent leader?
Wouldn't say it's envy, more like just cracking on and getting on with it and if the jobs that bad then get a better one.
Quote from: Ginger66 on January 15, 2023, 09:41:40 AMI said union bosses. 14% is a good offer.
Where I work we only had a 2.5% pay rise.
its not 14% NX playing with numbers its more like 6/8%, by back dating NX come up with 14%
Quote from: Rachvince53 on January 15, 2023, 09:48:34 AMPerhaps because it's closer to London?! Seriously I think it's down to Coventry having joined WMPTE later despite the passage of time. Can't think of anything else that might factor into the disparity.
NX Coventry garage on 50p an hour more than there NXWM GARAGE counterparts, you have Stagecoach down there might have something to do with it.
An all out strike is unlikely at least at first. In all likelihood, an overtime ban would most likely be the first action in my opinion.
The "greed" is not with bus drivers in Coventry or engineers in Walsall. It is with the city spivs in the square mile and the right wing zealot politicians who have stoked the fire of double digit inflation, rising food and energy prices and caused millions of families up and down the country worried about how they are going to make ends meet. It was not that long ago we were considering public transport employees as key workers and were clapping for them.
It also worth remembering that bus drivers were on the front line in the pandemic and some in London died in the early period where there were no masks or mitigations.
The 14% rise is I presume based on negotiations between UNITE and NXWM management. What we do not know is the starting positions on both sides. It is well known that in pay negotiations employer and unions start from a position which is poles apart, but in the end through negotiation and engagement a compromise is reached. If both sides head into a protracted dispute with hot-headedness the outcome will not be good.
People are turning away from the railways to the car on their driveway because of the continual unreliability whether there is a strike or not. A lot of bus users do not have that choice, but could end up making fewer journeys or trading down in terms of not buying passes, or moving to the parasites like Uber rather than using a bus. Some wise heads on both sides, rather than hot heads are needed.
Quote from: 2900 on January 15, 2023, 10:59:41 AMNX Coventry garage on 50p an hour more than there NXWM GARAGE counterparts, you have Stagecoach down there might have something to do with it.
It may do, but Stagecoach are not known for being brilliant payers and as we've seen with the tendering shambles in Birmingham they are now turning to agencies to recruit drivers rather than employing them directly. As anyone who has had to rely on agency work in any sector will tell you, it is a very insecure existence where you could lose you job very quickly.
Coventry I seem to recall were on strike at the time of deregulation in 1986 over redundancies there and changes to terms? I could imagine there being some difference in pay between WMPTE/WMT the
Northern/Southern Division and East/Coventry historically but not so much because of competition with Midland Red South but with other employers in the area after workers like Plessey, Jaguar, Alvis and Peugeot-Talbot. All now long gone of course.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on January 15, 2023, 11:35:20 AMIt may do, but Stagecoach are not known for being brilliant payers
They pay far more than NXWM for new starters!
Quote from: Straightlines on January 15, 2023, 11:42:31 AMThey pay far more than NXWM for new starters!
The agency or Stagecoach?
Stagecoach weren't known for being good payers in the North of England and there has been strife up there over the years.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on January 15, 2023, 11:58:18 AMThe agency or Stagecoach?
Stagecoach weren't known for being good payers in the North of England and there has been strife up there over the years.
Stagecoach, as per your comment and we aren't in the North of England.
You can find the relevant vacancies and pay rates on the respective operator sites if you are interested!
Quote from: Straightlines on January 15, 2023, 11:42:31 AMThey pay far more than NXWM for new starters!
Perhaps to start with but as was mentioned previously it seems new drivers are being fast tracked in to top rate (understandably in the current market).
It's not so long ago that the starting rate was around £10 an hour, now after a year or so if they are on £14+ then that's a 40% increase over a very short period of time. Whilst I sympathise with experienced drivers (I have been there in these disputes with First in previous years), they can't expect the same level of pay rise as new starters.
The one common complaint from older drivers has always been how poor the starting rates were when they started (and why so many newbies leave so early on in their careers) so actually increasing pay rates quickly for these people is a good thing. It's a shame though it seems to be a case of 'them v us' (newbies v experienced) rather than accepting it is for the greater good of the whole driving profession to have higher starting wages.
I am in no way saying experienced drivers don't deserve a decent pay rise, they do and if the current offer is £15.57 then I'm sure there is leeway to get that to £16 and hopefully that would be a happy compromise on both sides. Strikes don't benefit anyone so hopefully common sense prevails here.
https://stagecoach.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External/details/Bus---PCV-Driver---Rugby-Depot_JR2809?locations=337b73ce2a8d0101fa6a4bd1fba90000
Quick check on Stagecoach's site for Rugby drivers indicates an annualised salary of £28,500 which, at 39 hours a week, works out to around £14.06/hour.
The use of "annualised" here may mean they pay the same rate per month over the year and you work a set number of hours per year, but I think only my old work place used to do that.
Quote from: j789 on January 15, 2023, 12:20:58 PMPerhaps to start with but as was mentioned previously it seems new drivers are being fast tracked in to top rate (understandably in the current market).
It's not so long ago that the starting rate was around £10 an hour, now after a year or so if they are on £14+ then that's a 40% increase over a very short period of time. Whilst I sympathise with experienced drivers (I have been there in these disputes with First in previous years), they can't expect the same level of pay rise as new starters.
The one common complaint from older drivers has always been how poor the starting rates were when they started (and why so many newbies leave so early on in their careers) so actually increasing pay rates quickly for these people is a good thing. It's a shame though it seems to be a case of 'them v us' (newbies v experienced) rather than accepting it is for the greater good of the whole driving profession to have higher starting wages.
I am in no way saying experienced drivers don't deserve a decent pay rise, they do and if the current offer is £15.57 then I'm sure there is leeway to get that to £16 and hopefully that would be a happy compromise on both sides. Strikes don't benefit anyone so hopefully common sense prevails here.
Your presumption that the issue revolves solely around the hourly rate on offer is wrong
I've posted before, but just so the non bus drivers understand what drivers mean by playing with numbers. They all do it. (Except Kevs & LandFlight as far as I'm aware).
NX proposed rate
£16 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £120. NX only pay 7.5 hours (driving time) and not the whole shift. Effectively £12 per hour.
NX current starter rate
£11.80 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £88.50. As above, NX pay 7.5 hours. Effectively £8.85 per hour.
Stagecoach (Nuneaton)
£14 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £120.40. Stagecoach deduct 1hr 20 for your break, so 8.6 hours. Effectively £12.04 per hour.
Kevs
£11.50 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £115. No nonsense or trickery. They pay per hour you're at work. Effectively £11.50 per hour.
Diamond
£11.50 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £97.75. Diamond deduct up to 1hr 30 hours. Based on 8.5 hours, effectively £9.78 per hour.
LandFlight
£10.35 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £103.50. No nonsense or trickery. They pay per hour you're at work. Effectively £10.35 per hour.
Figures are correct as far as I'm aware. Subject to corrections if anybody states different.
Each company then has its own conditions and management such as faulty vehicles in service / no heating / unsociable hours / passengers you'd like to punch in the face or generally bullsh*t management.
Kevs & landflight paid break Time??
Quote from: pb2012 on January 15, 2023, 04:06:42 PMKevs & landflight paid break Time??
Yes. Straight through.
Lots of NX / Diamond drivers seem to look down on Kevs / LandFlight pay wise but the majority of the time they are the same or pay more.
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 04:09:06 PMYes. Straight through.
Lots of NX / Diamond drivers seem to look down on Kevs / LandFlight pay wise but the majority of the time they are the same or pay more.
Yes but that is an overly simplistic generalisation of the situation. Drivers at those smaller companies have significantly less opportunity for overtime driving. Those operators offer their drivers set working hours, no lates or Sundays, etc which is obviously a good thing if you have a family BUT... the nature of being a small company running a few routes means the opportunity for regular overtime to top up wages is just not there.
So yes paid breaks etc sound nice but if your limited to a 40 hour week at the higher £11.50 level then that's all you can earn with them (unless you can get p/t work with another operator which gets very messy with driving hour regs). This works out about weekly £450 pre tax, not a very good salary in this day and age even if you are getting a good work life balance. Obviously, this suits some drivers who don't care about earning as much as possible (or those older drivers wanting less hassle and an easier driving life) which is why smaller operators will mostly always be able to recruit the few drivers they need.
With larger operators, overtime is one of the perks and allows drivers to earn more than £450 a week should they wish too. Additionally, overtime can be worked in addition to a set shift on the same day. I've never worked for NXWM but have friends who do who have highlighted this to me. That set shift rate is true but if drivers choose to work additional overtime on that day after their shift ends, they get paid for those hours as well. Therefore, the pay comparison shown previously is not really accurate as it doesn't take into account the fact that drivers can earn more than that per day if they choose to do overtime.
Also, the set shift rate is paid even if you only work a 6 hour shift, quite a few 'early' shifts are less than the current 7 hours 36 mins so over the week it evens out even if you have to do a few longer shifts.
I've always thought this system of set shift pay is odd as the companies I have worked for paid actual hours worked minus up to 1hour 30 min break. Overall though, I don't think either system has any massive advantages over the other.
I'm not going to reply to most of that because it's complete and utter nonsense.
To put it simply, NX base their wages on a 38 hour week, except it's not 38 hours. It's around 50 hours including breaks.
Let me break it down further for you.
Based on NX starter rate:
£11.80 x 38 (hours) = £448.40
Now let's compare like for like with say LandFlight:
£10.35 x 50 (hours) = £517.50
You are already £69.10 per week better off at LandFlight.
Let's say you needed the overtime and you worked 7 days flat at either operator:
7 days at NX:
£11.80 x 53 (hours (2 extra 7.5 days added) = £625.40
7 days at LandFlight:
£10.35 x 70 (hours) = £724.50
Your nonsense about lack of overtime is exactly that; nonsense.
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 07:25:27 PMI'm not going to reply to most of that because it's complete and utter nonsense.
To put it simply, NX base their wages on a 38 hour week, except it's not 38 hours. It's around 50 hours including breaks.
Let me break it down further for you.
Based on NX starter rate:
£11.80 x 38 (hours) = £448.40
Now let's compare like for like with say LandFlight:
£10.35 x 50 (hours) = £517.50
You are already £69.10 per week better off at LandFlight.
Let's say you needed the overtime and you worked 7 days flat at either operator:
7 days at NX:
£11.80 x 53 (hours (2 extra 7.5 days added) = £625.40
7 days at LandFlight:
£10.35 x 70 (hours) = £724.50
Your nonsense about lack of overtime is exactly that; nonsense.
I agree with you
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 07:25:27 PMI'm not going to reply to most of that because it's complete and utter nonsense.
To put it simply, NX base their wages on a 38 hour week, except it's not 38 hours. It's around 50 hours including breaks.
Let me break it down further for you.
Based on NX starter rate:
£11.80 x 38 (hours) = £448.40
Now let's compare like for like with say LandFlight:
£10.35 x 50 (hours) = £517.50
You are already £69.10 per week better off at LandFlight.
Let's say you needed the overtime and you worked 7 days flat at either operator:
7 days at NX:
£11.80 x 53 (hours (2 extra 7.5 days added) = £625.40
7 days at LandFlight:
£10.35 x 70 (hours) = £724.50
Your nonsense about lack of overtime is exactly that; nonsense.
Well you clearly didn't understand the point I made!!! 🤦 It must be Sunday!
The clear FACT(!!) is that there is little opportunity for overtime at smaller operators (read my above post, it is basic common sense, smaller operator = less
routes and less work, they usually aren't 7 day a week/ 18 hour a day operators like the bigger companies) so the actual opportunities to work 7 days flat at a smaller company are not likely at all - your example at Landflight is pretty ridiculous as if a company that small is offering that amount of overtime regularly, they won't be lasting much longer as they clearly don't have sufficient drivers for the small amount of work they have.
Whereas, larger companies, if drivers choose to they will get overtime pretty much EVERY WEEK. The opportunity is always there. You can't just multiply the smaller company's higher wage to prove a point as the overtime in that scenario is not the reality.
You may be a Landflight driver as I seem to remember you've been through a fair number of companies working so you will have a better idea than me if you are but you can't be quoting 70 hour Landflight weeks as a comparison when such things (should!) be near on impossible unless they really do have a driver shortage too.
Just to add another point to address the drivel above...
I apologise for the delay in replying. I was busy driving for a small operator who offers no evening or Sunday work.
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/slvl-yx22ohd?date=2023-01-15#journeys/368151926
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 07:45:53 PMJust to add another point to address the drivel above...
I apologise for the delay in replying. I was busy driving for a small operator who offers no evening or Sunday work.
https://bustimes.org/vehicles/slvl-yx22ohd?date=2023-01-15#journeys/368151926
So I'm guessing if your point is valid all 20 or so (whatever small number of drivers it is) of your companies drivers have been working today to get their '70 hours' in? Ridiculous. You can't compare NXWM with a small operator running 5 or 6 routes, it's like comparing chalk and cheese.
Quote from: j789 on January 15, 2023, 07:48:33 PMSo I'm guessing if your point is valid all 20 or so (whatever small number of drivers it is) of your companies drivers have been working today to get their '70 hours' in. Ridiculous.
Were all First Worcester drivers out driving today?
Nonsense again.
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 07:51:03 PMWere all First Worcester drivers out driving today?
Nonsense again.
I'm not comparing Worcester though, it's a tiny garage in the First business. You look at the business in Leeds, Sheffield, Bristol, etc the % of drivers who can work a Sunday as overtime will be far higher than what your company can offer. Just like with NXWM. That is a fact, not 'drivel'.
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2023/01/15/national-express-bus-drivers-strike-vote-almost-unanimous-after-pay-offer-rejected/
Quote from: j789 on January 15, 2023, 07:53:57 PMI'm not comparing Worcester though, it's a tiny garage in the First business. You look at the business in Leeds, Sheffield, Bristol, etc the % of drivers who can work a Sunday as overtime will be far higher than what your company can offer. Just like with NXWM. That is a fact, not 'drivel'.
The lights are on, but there's nobody at home.
Quote from: MW on January 15, 2023, 08:31:50 PMThe lights are on, but there's nobody at home.
You literally don't see basic facts and then throw abuse at others for pointing them out! You are the one trying to compare a tiny operator running a few subsidised routes with an operator 50 or more times the size. You seem to think that you can apply the same logic to a small company as a large one and you really can't see the difference between the two it seems.
Diamond is now 12.50 on Sundays and after 8pm on other days
One message has been deleted from this thread. I won't allow the naming of employees when being 'slagged off' who don't have the right to reply.
NX engineers are finishing voting Wednesday this week on whether to strike too:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/january/3-000-west-midlands-national-express-bus-drivers-prepare-for-strike-ballot/
Quote from: winston on January 17, 2023, 02:01:54 PMNX engineers are finishing voting Wednesday this week on whether to strike too:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/january/3-000-west-midlands-national-express-bus-drivers-prepare-for-strike-ballot/
Strike action confirmed
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/january/west-midland-s-national-express-engineers-to-strike-over-pay/ (https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/january/west-midland-s-national-express-engineers-to-strike-over-pay/)
What's wrong with 10% wow some people.
Do we know what form any industrial action will take?
Overtime ban, which might mean cancellation of certain late night journeys?
No buses on Saturdays, like the last major strike in the 1990s?
Or all out, with everyone to fend for themselves?
Quote from: Westy on January 19, 2023, 09:39:04 PMDo we know what form any industrial action will take?
Overtime ban, which might mean cancellation of certain late night journeys?
No buses on Saturdays, like the last major strike in the 1990s?
Or all out, with everyone to fend for themselves?
I would imagine it would start with an overtime ban or possibly like the Royal Mail and others striking all out on selected days.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 19, 2023, 09:03:24 PMWhat's wrong with 10% wow some people.
It's a tough one because 10% sounds good but it doesn't quite meet the 12-13% inflation levels of recent times so is a real terms pay cut.
I don't like the 'company greed' rhetoric from the Unite spokesman on there though making out it is 100% down to the employees they made a multi million pound profit (sadly it's a typical union argument though), I think he may find that the massive investment in new vehicles and infrastructure by NXWM in recent years has also played a significant part too.
However, if a better offer of say 12% was offered by NX I really think that would be the halfway house needed to resolve this and prevent anyone 'losing face' over it.
Anyonr know if Diamond and other local operators have offered similar rises?
Quote from: j789 on January 19, 2023, 09:48:13 PMIt's a tough one because 10% sounds good but it doesn't quite meet the 12-13% inflation levels of recent times so is a real terms pay cut.
The vast majority of workers will not be getting inflation matching pay rises, yet they won't be striking. These percentage payrises are not realistic & inflation is expected to start falling once interest rate hikes kick in.
Quote from: winston on January 19, 2023, 10:49:37 PMThe vast majority of workers will not be getting inflation matching pay rises, yet they won't be striking. These percentage payrises are not realistic & inflation is expected to start falling once interest rate hikes kick in.
That is true but I think with the current driver shortages added on top of inflation, there really is no alternative to a substantial increase in this case. Other industries have less pressure on available staff so I doubt they will get anything like this %.
It's the train drivers that take the P in my opinion with their arguments for more pay not bus drivers, telling everyone they can't afford to live on £45000 without an inflation busting pay rise. Bus drivers deserve a decent pay rise across the board, rather than the usual 50p an hour or so a year rise that is the norm.
Will be curious if these get public sympathy, not feeling any myself.
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 20, 2023, 04:27:48 AMWill be curious if these get public sympathy, not feeling any myself.
NX employees not looking for public sympathy, they want a fair deal, people banging on about 10% for engineers any one seen the actual full deal on the table. From a drivers point view point view its a job most people won't or cant't do, people look down there noses at bus driving jobs like its beneath them.
currently and this is fact we are paid 38 hrs, new terms and conditions 36/37hrs , black country duty compass currently 8.45 new T&Cs 8.30, brum garages 9hrs 30 even worse, with the compass at 42 hrs i calculate drivers lose £57.60p a week, monthly £230.40, £2764.12 yearly very sobering figures. when i factor in my compass on top rate i earn £12.72 on 8.45 compass even worse on a split duty £9 an hour, NXWM got there new T&Cs through banging the drum we will pay you every minute you work, any break over 70 minutes we will pay, we all saw from a mile away those dutys will vanish etc etc losing our paid breaks had a very negative harm to the duties, union at fault in my eyes for not putting up a fight to defend them
NX have very clever lawyers and number cruncher's
Quote from: j789 on January 19, 2023, 09:48:13 PMIt's a tough one because 10% sounds good but it doesn't quite meet the 12-13% inflation levels of recent times so is a real terms pay cut.
I don't like the 'company greed' rhetoric from the Unite spokesman on there though making out it is 100% down to the employees they made a multi million pound profit (sadly it's a typical union argument though), I think he may find that the massive investment in new vehicles and infrastructure by NXWM in recent years has also played a significant part too.
However, if a better offer of say 12% was offered by NX I really think that would be the halfway house needed to resolve this and prevent anyone 'losing face' over it.
Anyonr know if Diamond and other local operators have offered similar rises?
without drivers there is no company period, they bang on about new vehicle investment well its part of the business, buses get old they replace them standard oh wow big deal, i use drive around 25 year old Metrobuses no problem did'nt bother me.
Coventrys great electric plan oh wow, NX Instead of writing cheques every month for leasing diesel buses they will write cheques to zenobe instead who will provide fairy dust too
If the strikes do go ahead it could be workers that hard it hit. As it could cost me £45 a day for taxis to get from Wednesbury to Edgbaston if you do that 3 times a week you are looking at almost £150 just for travel.
Quote from: Ginger66 on January 20, 2023, 12:28:59 PMIf the strikes do go ahead it could be workers that hard it hit. As it could cost me £45 a day for taxis to get from Wednesbury to Edgbaston if you do that 3 times a week you are looking at almost £150 just for travel.
Metro ?
It'll interesting to see, with the recent changes, how many of us have a viable non NX alternative?
I'll have to use the Diamond 326 both ways, as there's no non Nx alternative between Walsall and Willenhall, since Thandi went, even though Diamond are on the 31 / 32 between Bloxwich and Walsall.
(And change my hours slightly as well, as the first 326 from Bloxwich is 715am, but if that doesn't show, as it hasn't done in the past, causing me to go via Walsall instead, I'd have to wait for the 745am instead, which would mean a 830 to 430 shift instead!)
During the bus strikes of the early 90s, I was working for Midland Choice and we'd registered emergency routes to cover WMT's missing services. We covered the 319, 374 and registered a Walsall - Bloxwich - Lower Farm as 272. Many other Bentley services were covered by Stevensons and Dudley by the Thandi group of companies. Even back then, there were still plenty of services running (and we made an absolute killing!)
Quote from: Wumpty on January 20, 2023, 01:59:06 PMDuring the bus strikes of the early 90s, I was working for Midland Choice and we'd registered emergency routes to cover WMT's missing services. We covered the 319, 374 and registered a Walsall - Bloxwich - Lower Farm as 272. Many other Bentley services were covered by Stevensons and Dudley by the Thandi group of companies. Even back then, there were still plenty of services running (and we made an absolute killing!)
I remember, but would the resources be there this time round though?
Quote from: Westy on January 20, 2023, 01:33:11 PMIt'll interesting to see, with the recent changes, how many of us have a viable non NX alternative?
I'll have to use the Diamond 326 both ways, as there's no non Nx alternative between Walsall and Willenhall, since Thandi went, even though Diamond are on the 31 / 32 between Bloxwich and Walsall.
(And change my hours slightly as well, as the first 326 from Bloxwich is 715am, but if that doesn't show, as it hasn't done in the past, causing me to go via Walsall instead, I'd have to wait for the 745am instead, which would mean a 830 to 430 shift instead!)
Not many probably and if the strike action is the same days as WMR aren't operating even less will have an alternative so will have even more of an impact.
On the fox and goose - city corridor we just have national express now, as diamond finished a few weeks ago.
I was driving for bham coach co at the time was the only bus on 6 to Solihull,very busy.
Quote from: Westy on January 20, 2023, 01:33:11 PMIt'll interesting to see, with the recent changes, how many of us have a viable non NX alternative?
If there were no NX buses running at all, my only other options are to walk to/from work (just over an hour), or get the train from Yardley Wood to Small Heath. But I'm just looking at the train timetable and its ridiculous now, I'm sure there used to be a train every twenty minutes between those two stations, now its hourly!
I'd probably end up working from home on those days, there's no way I'm paying for a taxi especially as they'll be taking full advantage by hiking their prices up.
Quote from: winston on January 19, 2023, 10:49:37 PMThe vast majority of workers will not be getting inflation matching pay rises, yet they won't be striking. These percentage payrises are not realistic & inflation is expected to start falling once interest rate hikes kick in.
Worth remembering that interest rate rise will impact on take home pay as well. People are going to be paying more on mortgages thanks to the disastrous Truss budget and if you rent privately as many younger workers now have to, landlords will up rents to cover the interest rate rises on their properties.
Also worth noting that the unhappy workers at the current time are all in public service sectors like public transport, the health sector and local/national government. All the ones that were expected to keep going during the pandemic with key workers expected to keep going.
Workers at Jaguar Land Rover, who of course are the biggest private sector in the West Midlands also have workers represented by UNITE. Workers most recent pay deal from last summer is 12.2%.
JLR 2022 Pay Deal (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/jaguar-land-rover-workers-12-24540883)
I'd have thought that would have come into the mix in any pay negotiations at NX or indeed for the nurses and other public service workers with an observation from the TU side that any offer less than that is an insult to those who'd served between 2020 and 2022. JLR of course shut down in lockdown. NXWM were business as usual.
Quote from: 2900 on January 20, 2023, 10:53:26 AMwithout drivers there is no company period, they bang on about new vehicle investment well its part of the business, buses get old they replace them standard oh wow big deal, i use drive around 25 year old Metrobuses no problem did'nt bother me.
Coventrys great electric plan oh wow, NX Instead of writing cheques every month for leasing diesel buses they will write cheques to zenobe instead who will provide fairy dust too
Indeed, but that is also the case if there are no passengers.
Passengers want decent buses and quality and you only have to look how bad the decline has been in operations using knackered buses that Chaserider.
Quote from: Westy on January 20, 2023, 01:33:11 PMIt'll interesting to see, with the recent changes, how many of us have a viable non NX alternative?
The answer is very few. Perhaps Andy Street is expecting Stagecoach to magic up a few hundred buses and drivers for the main corridor routes. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
For regular West Midlands bus users reliant on NXWM, with exceptions there is none. Even the alternatives may be useless depending on the timing of any strike, given some of the alternatives only operate at limited times. For an example Sutton-Birmingham commuters have the option of Cross City (if it is running) or the Arriva 110. However the 110 is not as frequent as the NX offering and finishes earlier.
Quote from: 2900 on January 20, 2023, 10:53:26 AMwithout drivers there is no company period, they bang on about new vehicle investment well its part of the business, buses get old they replace them standard oh wow big deal, i use drive around 25 year old Metrobuses no problem did'nt bother me.
Coventrys great electric plan oh wow, NX Instead of writing cheques every month for leasing diesel buses they will write cheques to zenobe instead who will provide fairy dust too.
Drivers are the number most important resource a transport company has of course. But let's not pretend that the unions would accept a big pay rise but then accept drivers having to sit in clapped out sheds all day with no heating, etc. They want nice comfy vehicles to drive so unions would kick up a fuss if there was no new vehicle investment so it is important.
Investment in vehicles AND staff needs to occur in tandem, no one can deny that NX have done a good job on the vehicle investment side in recent years, now hopefully their employees will benefit too as they deserve it (as all bus drivers do).
It would be interesting to know how the smaller companies deal with unions - I know of some in the past who didn't recognise them so driver rights were non existent pretty much at those companies. Hopefully this isn't the case any longer at any local companies.
And as for the Metros, an absolute credit to WMT/TWM engineering staff to keep them in good Nick for so long. Keep hearing in other threads in Cannock fairly modern Streetlites and others seem to break down every few days, no price can be put on having the 'right' staff in those roles.
Quote from: Stu on January 20, 2023, 04:41:05 PMIf there were no NX buses running at all, my only other options are to walk to/from work (just over an hour), or get the train from Yardley Wood to Small Heath. But I'm just looking at the train timetable and its ridiculous now, I'm sure there used to be a train every twenty minutes between those two stations, now its hourly!
I'd probably end up working from home on those days, there's no way I'm paying for a taxi especially as they'll be taking full advantage by hiking their prices up.
Last time I walked from Willenhall back home to Bloxwich/Leamore, it was a Christmas after work afternoon down the nearest pub(The now demolished Waterglade in Willenhall!), so I was a bit squiffy, let's say.
I had a 'mad idea' to walk home, so followed the 326 route, as far as Lane Head Bridge, then cut through Short Heath past the shops, up to what was Frank F Harrison school, then went in the Tandy shop that was attached to their head office at the time, then carried on home from there!
The whole walk took me about a hour & half istr, about 30 odd years ago!
Quote from: j789 on January 20, 2023, 05:36:22 PMDrivers are the number most important resource a transport company has of course. But let's not pretend that the unions would accept a big pay rise but then accept drivers having to sit in clapped out sheds all day with no heating, etc. They want nice comfy vehicles to drive so unions would kick up a fuss if there was no new vehicle investment so it is important.
Investment in vehicles AND staff needs to occur in tandem, no one can deny that NX have done a good job on the vehicle investment side in recent years, now hopefully their employees will benefit too as they deserve it (as all bus drivers do).
It would be interesting to know how the smaller companies deal with unions - I know of some in the past who didn't recognise them so driver rights were non existent pretty much at those companies. Hopefully this isn't the case any longer at any local companies.
And as for the Metros, an absolute credit to WMT/TWM engineering staff to keep them in good Nick for so long. Keep hearing in other threads in Cannock fairly modern Streetlites and others seem to break down every few days, no price can be put on having the 'right' staff in those roles.
Yes, drivers (as the cab is their workstation) and passengers now expect better. The days of operators getting away with keeping superannuated Routemasters and Metrobuses every day have gone.
Pre-dreg of course the planned service life of a bus was 12-15 years. Think we are moving back to that.
Quote from: Stu on January 20, 2023, 04:41:05 PMIf there were no NX buses running at all, my only other options are to walk to/from work (just over an hour), or get the train from Yardley Wood to Small Heath. But I'm just looking at the train timetable and its ridiculous now, I'm sure there used to be a train every twenty minutes between those two stations, now its hourly!
I'd probably end up working from home on those days, there's no way I'm paying for a taxi especially as they'll be taking full advantage by hiking their prices up.
Snap it would take nearly hour from where I am in Wednesbury to walk to the metro stop at great western street and if I went to local train stop it would take about 20 minutes and then if there are train strikes.
I would not like to walk in the dark and especially if it's been snowing and icey it would take me longer to walk
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on January 20, 2023, 05:17:15 PMFor regular West Midlands bus users reliant on NXWM, with exceptions there is none. Even the alternatives may be useless depending on the timing of any strike, given some of the alternatives only operate at limited times.
Actually there is one other option available to me, I could get the Stagecoach 169 to Kings Heath, and then a Diamond 50 to Highgate (ten minute walk from the Merrymaid to work!)
But as that option involves a) Stagecoach and b) Streetlites, it would probably not be a viable one! :laugh:
Quote from: j789 on January 20, 2023, 05:36:22 PMDrivers are the number most important resource a transport company has of course. But let's not pretend that the unions would accept a big pay rise but then accept drivers having to sit in clapped out sheds all day with no heating, etc. They want nice comfy vehicles to drive so unions would kick up a fuss if there was no new vehicle investment so it is important.
Investment in vehicles AND staff needs to occur in tandem, no one can deny that NX have done a good job on the vehicle investment side in recent years, now hopefully their employees will benefit too as they deserve it (as all bus drivers do).
It would be interesting to know how the smaller companies deal with unions - I know of some in the past who didn't recognise them so driver rights were non existent pretty much at those companies. Hopefully this isn't the case any longer at any local companies.
And as for the Metros, an absolute credit to WMT/TWM engineering staff to keep them in good Nick for so long. Keep hearing in other threads in Cannock fairly modern Streetlites and others seem to break down every few days, no price can be put on having the 'right' staff in those roles.
I don't think you can compare a Metrobus with a Streetlite. You can fix a Metrobus with a spanner rather than a computer !
QuoteI don't think you can compare a Metrobus with a Streetlite. You can fix a Metrobus with a spanner rather than a computer !
Wolverhampton's three StreetLites very rarely break down. It is a rare day one will leave the garage and not complete the duty, only problem with them is it normally takes longer to get spares for them when needed than an E200.
Quote from: metrocity on January 20, 2023, 07:21:52 PMI don't think you can compare a Metrobus with a Streetlite. You can fix a Metrobus with a spanner rather than a computer !
Perhaps but also having an exemplary maintenance schedule in place should mean all vehicles operated should be reliable, no matter the complexities of their mechanical infrastructure.
First has plenty of Streetlites getting on for 9 years old now yet they are some of the most reliable vehicles in the fleet still. If you have good maintenance standards (and amazing engineering staff like the ones I've been fortunate to work alongside with) then you gain the benefits of that.
It seems not all companies place as much importance on maintenance though and it certainly shows.
Quote from: metrocity on January 20, 2023, 07:21:52 PMI don't think you can compare a Metrobus with a Streetlite. You can fix a Metrobus with a spanner rather than a computer !
.....and what's more a Metrobus sounds brilliant......
Quote from: Westy on January 20, 2023, 01:33:11 PMIt'll interesting to see, with the recent changes, how many of us have a viable non NX alternative?
Some people, myself included, are fortunate to have their car as an alternative.
Like a lot of people, particularly those who work in the city centre, I choose to take the bus to work rather than drive, for a number of reasons. Parking costs in the city are extortionate, the bus will typically get you closer to your place of work, journey times for shorter commutes and with bus priority measures can be similar, and frequent short trips are not always suited to all modern cars. Then there are the environmental considerations.
Unfortunately, the current situation in the bus industry turns into a vicious circle where people can use their car as an alternative. Bus driver shortages, and the consequent reductions in frequencies and missing buses, result in people resorting to using their car. Strike action will only compound this further. Some passengers will be lost for good, bus company revenue decreases, cost pressures in the current environment worsen, and companies can't afford to pay what their drivers demand. And so the cycle continues.
I do however have some sympathy for bus drivers. Rates of pay in the industry are poor, for a job dealing with the general public (and with that, some of the dregs of society) with extremely unsociable hours.
Nobody has mentioned using a bicycle granted on a bad weather day its not very appealing really is it.
Any way i doubt drivers will get to strike NXWM will put something on the table. i personally just for hell of it want to experience a strike a picket line etc something i can tick off me bucket list. I bet there's folks thinking how irresponsible and you know what folks life carry's on regardless we,ve had trams,trains, ambulances missing for months and yet we still manage one way or another. i now walk from W.B garage to Oldbury relief point, great for mental health.
Quote from: 2900 on January 21, 2023, 09:59:39 AMNobody has mentioned using a bicycle granted on a bad weather day its not very appealing really is it.
I'm pretty sure if strike action is called, TfWM will be pushing cycling again.
Quote from: 2900 on January 21, 2023, 09:59:39 AMi personally just for hell of it want to experience a strike a picket line etc something i can tick off me bucket list.
If you're going to do it do it properly. Donkey jacket with PVC panels, fire lit inside a big metal oil drum, hand-held placards, the works.
QuoteIf you're going to do it do it properly. Donkey jacket with PVC panels, fire lit inside a big metal oil drum, hand-held placards, the works.
Brings back memories of the fire brigade strikes - i remenber seeing them when i was younger.
:smiley:
Rumour going round first week in February when strike action will take place. Anyone else heard that?
Quote from: PB50 on January 21, 2023, 07:03:17 PMRumour going round first week in February when strike action will take place. Anyone else heard that?
Seems a bit too soon, I thought the unions had to give some good advance notice of strike action?
14 days notice is required that industrial action will take place and the duration.
Therefore beginning of February is plausible.
If they deliberately target same days as trains suspect public sympathy with diminish
Quote from: monkeyjoe on January 21, 2023, 08:14:13 PMIf they deliberately target same days as trains suspect public sympathy with diminish
There is no guarantee any strike will have an impact on service delivery
QuoteIf they deliberately target same days as trains suspect public sympathy with diminish
Speak for yourself there. There is (much) blame to be laid, but not at the workers feet.
Quote from: Isle of Stroma on January 22, 2023, 01:14:36 AMSpeak for yourself there. There is (much) blame to be laid, but not at the workers feet.
Management is partially to blame, if you look at automonus delivery.
Look at supermarkets getting rid of checkouts forcing customers to scan there own shopping thus taking people's jobs, the same with banks the more of us do online banking this will force banks to close.
If we taking automonus delivery in the public transport sector, with the rise of e-ticket/mobile tickets we have already seen it with NX who closed there travel shops, and we know Mike Lynch does not want's this not to happen on the railway. With the rise of contactless payments it will only be time before NXWM will need less people counting the cash vaults doing the booking keeping at the end of each day.
Strikes can be good but it has an impact on other sectors such as when the strikes happened before Christmas it had an effect on the hospitality sector who are try to recover from COVID.
Not all sectors have recovered from the pandemic. Bosses need to be honest and say this is what we can afford to offer in terms of a pay rise.
Quote from: 979 on January 15, 2023, 08:08:30 PMhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2023/01/15/national-express-bus-drivers-strike-vote-almost-unanimous-after-pay-offer-rejected/
When will the strike ballot close?
For those dependent on buses to get around, especially those relying on them to get to and from work or education, it would be useful to know when the ballot closes and when the first industrial action is likely to be, so they can plan ahead and start putting in place alternatives like lifts to work if need be.
So on the express and Star site today it says they going to ballot for strike action next week so probably later on in the month the strikes will start to happen if they agree to it.
The article says NX made xxxx amount profit and they have the money to do pay rises
But surely the profits reflect the whole NX group and each division/company i.e. Rhine-Munster Express would be given a budget for ie 2023/24 for new vehicles and wages ect.
The ballot for strike action will open on February 8 and closes on March 1. Any strikes would be likely to begin later in March. (According to Birmingham Live/Mail)
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/more-3000-national-express-west-26127358 (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/more-3000-national-express-west-26127358)
Quote from: Ginger66 on February 01, 2023, 12:23:31 PMThe article says NX made xxxx amount profit and they have the money to do pay rises
But surely the profits reflect the whole NX group and each division/company i.e. Rhine-Munster Express would be given a budget for ie 2023/24 for new vehicles and wages ect.
Therefore WMT would be given a set amount like the other companies under NX Group umbrella WMT could ask the parent company for extra if needed but the big bosses could say (1) yes, (2) no, (3) put fare up to cover cost, (4) reduce workforce
NXWM only have themselves to blame its years of pent up frustration coming to the surface, lack of restrooms, ever worsening duties, WB garage duties took a massive nose dive in mid noughties when our paid breaks were signed away by incompetent union chairpersons, the members were't even consulted.
i personally would take being paid the compass at £14.40 and time quarter overtime rate.
If NXWM agreed to pay the compass i bet splits would disappear and the breaks would be around the 40 minute mark.
From Nov 23 the basic week will shorten again to 35 hrs 30 minimum, i,ve seen the new draft duties based on new 36 hr 15 week they look no different to 7.36 duties, like i say the number boffins to clever.
What are the plans for the buses if the strikes go ahead.
I know when the metro went out on strike it was late start up and very early finishing will something like this happen or will it be like the railway blocks of 48hr strikes.
Quote from: Ginger66 on February 26, 2023, 09:16:33 AMWhat are the plans for the buses if the strikes go ahead.
I know when the metro went out on strike it was late start up and very early finishing will something like this happen or will it be like the railway blocks of 48hr strikes.
Could we see drivers and buses from other companies being brought in
What other available drivers?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on February 26, 2023, 10:10:38 AMCould we see drivers and buses from other companies being brought in
And where are those drivers going to come from, baring in mind they're part of the same union?
Quote from: Rachvince53 on February 27, 2023, 12:46:29 PMAnd where are those drivers going to come from, baring in mind they're part of the same union?
I remember the strikes of the early 90s. We made an absolute killing at Midland Choice - would TC allow emergency registrations to cover routes like we did ?
If NX were to go on strike are there even enough drivers left around all the other companies to put on services? Everyone is cutting back citing lack of drivers.
Surely the operators own services, plus the TfWm services must take priority?
TBH , I'd be very surprised with the current driver situation as it is, if anything 'extra' was put on?
(Didn't we get 'strike breakers' on a previous one, so you might get a defiant Nx driver, but how that'll go down with the rest is another thing.
I seem to recall, when WMPTE had strikes in the 80's, I remember reading something about a driver having his glasses taken off him, so he couldn't drive the bus!)
Get ready
96% in favour of strike action
Quote from: Steveminor on March 01, 2023, 08:54:52 PM96% in favour of strike action
Is this across all staff, drivers, engineering and admin?
How many abstained from voting?
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 02, 2023, 06:07:11 AMIs this across all staff, drivers, engineering and admin?
How many abstained from voting?
Drivers and the rest of the info you don't need to know
Commencing 16th March
Quote from: 979 on March 02, 2023, 02:05:08 PMCommencing 16th March
For odd days or continuous days ?
Quote from: 979 on March 02, 2023, 02:05:08 PMCommencing 16th March
Any idea when it will be made official?
Quote from: 979 on March 02, 2023, 02:05:08 PMCommencing 16th March
16th March is the same day as the WMR strike to. So few trains as well as buses running in the West Midlands that day to.
https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/travel-information/journey-planning/service-disruption/industrial-action
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 02, 2023, 02:18:31 PMAny idea when it will be made official?
Looks official to me...
Continuous strike action from Thursday 16th March:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/entire-west-midlands-bus-network-to-shut-as-over-3-300-national-express-staff-strike-over-pay/
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/west-midlands-bus-drivers-announce-26371582
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/birmingham/2023/03/02/entire-west-midlands-bus-network-to-shut-down-after-drivers-vote-in-favour-of-industrial-action/
According to E&S National Express' operating profits, released today, have more than doubled compared to the previous year.
Profits that where released in 2022 would have covered the period 2020/2021 when we was in lockdown these figures would/should be 2021/22 after all restrictions lifted
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 02, 2023, 04:04:14 PMAccording to E&S National Express' operating profits, released today, have more than doubled compared to the previous year.
Profits that where released in 2022 would have covered the period 2020/2021 when we was in lockdown these figures would/should be 2021/22 after all restrictions lifted
That's correct, what's your point? Most of that profit comes from the US & Spanish Operations.
Quote from: winston on March 02, 2023, 02:32:51 PMLooks official to me...
Continuous strike action from Thursday 16th March:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/entire-west-midlands-bus-network-to-shut-as-over-3-300-national-express-staff-strike-over-pay/
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/west-midlands-bus-drivers-announce-26371582
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/birmingham/2023/03/02/entire-west-midlands-bus-network-to-shut-down-after-drivers-vote-in-favour-of-industrial-action/
Noticed that the Express and Star makes the incorrect statement that ALL bus services will not operate from 16th March 2023. In fact while the majority won't run, those operated by Diamond etc will be unaffected.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 02, 2023, 05:09:40 PMNoticed that the Express and Star makes the incorrect statement that ALL bus services will not operate from 16th March 2023. In fact while the majority won't run, those operated by Diamond etc will be unaffected.
Taken from the Unite statement. Actually not all drivers at NX are union members so there may be some NX services running as well
Quote from: Tony on March 02, 2023, 06:29:10 PMTaken from the Unite statement. Actually not all drivers at NX are union members so there may be some NX services running as well
I was going to enquire about that, I would assume that not all drivers are union members, but a large majority would be.
Even so, on the strike days, it would be a very limited thread-bare service level, and the few buses running would be very busy and crowded.
Probably a good time for anyone to consider using holiday allowance and have the day off work instead. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Stu on March 02, 2023, 07:22:17 PMI was going to enquire about that, I would assume that not all drivers are union members, but a large majority would be.
Even so, on the strike days, it would be a very limited thread-bare service level, and the few buses running would be very busy and crowded.
Probably a good time for anyone to consider using holiday allowance and have the day off work instead. :rolleyes:
I thought it was going to be continuous, not odd days here & there, like the trains?
Quote from: Westy on March 02, 2023, 07:32:38 PMI thought it was going to be continuous, not odd days here & there, like the trains?
Well its not clear yet exactly what form the strike action will take, the Unite The Union statement mentions both 'all out' and 'continuous' strike action.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 02, 2023, 06:07:11 AMIs this across all staff, drivers, engineering and admin?
How many abstained from voting?
2173 voted for, 96 against
Quote from: Tony on March 02, 2023, 06:29:10 PMTaken from the Unite statement. Actually not all drivers at NX are union members so there may be some NX services running as well
That's assuming the striking drivers allow buses to leave depots driven by non union members...
It won't be much use to anyone who doesn't have a smart phone / use trackers to see what's running etc
Quote from: Stu on March 02, 2023, 07:22:17 PMI was going to enquire about that, I would assume that not all drivers are union members, but a large majority would be.
Even so, on the strike days, it would be a very limited thread-bare service level, and the few buses running would be very busy and crowded.
Probably a good time for anyone to consider using holiday allowance and have the day off work instead. :rolleyes:
The impact of strike action is also reduced to an extent these days, as quite a bit of the working population is fortunate enough to be able to work from home. Not good, however, for kids who have to use the bus to get to school.
Quote from: Mike K on March 02, 2023, 07:54:30 PMThe impact of strike action is also reduced to an extent these days, as quite a bit of the working population is fortunate enough to be able to work from home. Not good, however, for kids who have to use the bus to get to school.
nationwide teacher strikes that day aswell so those kids wont be going to school regardless tbh
Quote from: EK40 on March 02, 2023, 07:57:47 PMnationwide teacher strikes that day aswell so those kids wont be going to school regardless tbh
Good point. I should really know that having kids aged 13 and 15 😂
Quote from: Mike K on March 02, 2023, 08:09:41 PMGood point. I should really know that having kids aged 13 and 15 😂
Some might open partially on strike days though I think.
And it depends how long it goes on for to if its continuous
Quote from: winston on March 02, 2023, 07:50:33 PMThat's assuming the striking drivers allow buses to leave depots driven by non union members...
It won't be much use to anyone who doesn't have a smart phone / use trackers to see what's running etc
I'm no expert on this obviously, but surely unless the other union(s) say 'We won't cross the picket line, out of sympathy ', Unite members wouldn't be able to do that?
(Who are the other 'bus driving ' unions by the way?)
What is continuous strike action? Does that mean the strike will start on 16th and carry on until an agreement is met?
Quote from: Gareth on March 02, 2023, 08:55:32 PMWhat is continuous strike action? Does that mean the strike will start on 16th and carry on until an agreement is met?
I think so if its the case could TFWM pull contracts from nxbus and gave them to other companies
Quote from: Westy on March 02, 2023, 08:54:33 PMI'm no expert on this obviously, but surely unless the other union(s) say 'We won't cross the picket line, out of sympathy ', Unite members wouldn't be able to do that?
(Who are the other 'bus driving ' unions by the way?)
TSSA and possibly RMT.
My understanding is that what would in effect be sympathy strikes are illegal. Certainly when I worked in education my colleagues were not permitted to stop me (as a member of another union) crossing the picket line into school - they actually waved at me!
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 02, 2023, 09:32:19 PMI think so if its the case could TFWM pull contracts from nxbus and gave them to other companies
Ridiculous comment. You honestly think there is a big surplus of drivers available for these other companies to do this? Look at the issues the whole industry faces currently, there just aren't enough good drivers.
Do you think those striking drivers are going to suddenly decide to just quit and go to another company where the long term job and wage conditions will in no way match what the drivers are currently fighting for at NX?
You think Stagecoach or similar are going to just manic up some new drivers when they themselves can't run their current full quota of routes.
This whole situation is a mess and hopefully common sense from all sides will come through and some sort of compromise reached in the next 2 weeks.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 02, 2023, 09:50:23 PMTSSA and possibly RMT.
My understanding is that what would in effect be sympathy strikes are illegal. Certainly when I worked in education my colleagues were not permitted to stop me (as a member of another union) crossing the picket line into school - they actually waved at me!
RMT obviously heard of, but not TSSA.
Thought as much about the 'sympathy strikes'!
Quote from: j789 on March 02, 2023, 09:55:38 PMRidiculous comment. You honestly think there is a big surplus of drivers available for these other companies to do this? Look at the issues the whole industry faces currently, there just aren't enough good drivers.
Do you think those striking drivers are going to suddenly decide to just quit and go to another company where the long term job and wage conditions will in no way match what the drivers are currently fighting for at NX?
You think Stagecoach or similar are going to just manic up some new drivers when they themselves can't run their current full quota of routes.
This whole situation is a mess and hopefully common sense from all sides will come through and some sort of compromise reached in the next 2 weeks.
See who 'blinks first'!
Quote from: Westy on March 02, 2023, 08:54:33 PMI'm no expert on this obviously, but surely unless the other union(s) say 'We won't cross the picket line, out of sympathy ', Unite members wouldn't be able to do that?
(Who are the other 'bus driving ' unions by the way?)
Tony said some drivers aren't members of any union & therefore could still be working on strike days.
Would you really want to be the only NX bus on say the Soho rd or through Alum Rock plus get the grief from your colleagues for breaking a picket line
Quote from: Steveminor on March 03, 2023, 07:38:23 AMWould you really want to be the only NX bus on say the Soho rd or through Alum Rock plus get the grief from your colleagues for breaking a picket line
I certainly wouldn't want to be in that situation. Perhaps time to take some leave?
Quote from: Westy on March 02, 2023, 09:58:36 PMRMT obviously heard of, but not TSSA.
Thought as much about the 'sympathy strikes'!
Transport Salieried Staff Association. Based in London but with regional offices. Members work in various transport industries. As you say, not as well known as RMT.
Quote from: Gareth on March 02, 2023, 08:55:32 PMWhat is continuous strike action? Does that mean the strike will start on 16th and carry on until an agreement is met?
Continuous strike action is when two or more strike days occur consecutively, with no working days in between.
All-out strike action is exactly that - all members of Unions balloted who declare strike action will strike and not work during the period that strike action occurs. There are some very extreme cases where this may not apply.
Quote from: winston on March 02, 2023, 07:50:33 PMThat's assuming the striking drivers allow buses to leave depots driven by non union members...
It won't be much use to anyone who doesn't have a smart phone / use trackers to see what's running etc
Good point
@winston - it is worth mentioning that (and I'm sure due consideration will be given to) not impeding buses leaving/entering the garages where the public highway meets private property. Back in the 90s, Walsall garage occupied all land that immediately bordered Bloxwich Road, meaning pickets stood in the mouth of the WA entrance, thus impeding buses, though no one physically stopped buses leaving driven by non-Union members.
It gets complicated now as that access is used by several businesses so |I'm assuming any picket line would have to occupy either the mouth to the actual garage where it joins the rest of the estate to Bloxwich Road, or stand on the footpath on Bloxwich Road but not attempt to stop buses as it has multiple commercial uses.
Quote from: Steveminor on March 03, 2023, 07:38:23 AMWould you really want to be the only NX bus on say the Soho rd or through Alum Rock
Arriva 110 between Birmingham and Good Hope these will probably be hit hard to with no NX X4. Or diamond 16a/50.
Can imagine most buses that are running in the West Mids that day are going to be overcrowded.
Quote from: winston on March 02, 2023, 10:46:25 PMTony said some drivers aren't members of any union & therefore could still be working on strike days.
It would be interesting to see where non striking staff would fill the gaps?
Take Walsall for instance, if Diamond cover the 31/32, would Nx non striking drivers cover the 51 for example, depending on whether Perry Barr covers anything else on that stretch to Brum from PB shops to the City Centre?
Obviously I'm not asking how many non union drivers there are per depot, but there must be a plan somewhere?
Would drivers for NEAT be drafted in to run services to keep the West Midlands moving
Can non union drivers not work as there won't be any engineers to attend breakdowns will there ?
Can see Diamond 4/4H been extra busy on strike days
Quote from: Bus127us on March 03, 2023, 12:58:15 PMCan non union drivers not work as there won't be any engineers to attend breakdowns will there ?
That is a good point.
You could say the buses are unsafe to drive, if there's no breakdown cover!
Quote from: Westy on March 03, 2023, 01:29:41 PMThat is a good point.
You could say the buses are unsafe to drive, if there's no breakdown cover!
Nonsense, not a good point at all.
Quote from: Westy on March 03, 2023, 01:29:41 PMThat is a good point.
You could say the buses are unsafe to drive, if there's no breakdown cover!
And it's not all engineers, so there will be cover, and many breakdowns are just fetched in by RS anyway
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 03, 2023, 12:26:04 PMWould drivers for NEAT be drafted in to run services to keep the West Midlands moving
No. Drivers will not be drafted in from elsewhere. That hasn't happened when other bus companies go on strike (eg Ariiva North West) and won't happen here.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 03, 2023, 03:31:55 PMNo. Drivers will not be drafted in from elsewhere. That hasn't happened when other bus companies go on strike (eg Ariiva North West) and won't happen here.
Stagecoach generally bring other staff in to cover strikes
Quote from: Tony on March 03, 2023, 02:08:43 PMAnd it's not all engineers, so there will be cover, and many breakdowns are just fetched in by RS anyway
Fair enough.
We are learning as we go along!
@Tony will you be driving?
Quote from: Steveminor on March 03, 2023, 05:49:50 PM@Tony will you be driving?
No, staff have been told they haven't got to. I've got plenty of empty bus driving to do getting these electrics into service
With drivers strikeing will nx refund taxis trains other forms of transport that people may be required to use during the strikes to get to work, health care, education in place's only nx buses operate?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 06:01:56 PMWith drivers strikeing will nx refund taxis trains other forms of transport that people may be required to use during the strikes to get to work, health care, education in place's only nx buses operate?
Of course they won't.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 06:01:56 PMWith drivers strikeing will nx refund taxis trains other forms of transport that people may be required to use during the strikes to get to work, health care, education in place's only nx buses operate?
They don't refund for their already ongoing non operation / unreliability!
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 06:01:56 PMWith drivers strikeing will nx refund taxis trains other forms of transport that people may be required to use during the strikes to get to work, health care, education in place's only nx buses operate?
Is that a serious question ?
Quote from: monkeyjoe on March 03, 2023, 07:23:22 PMIs that a serious question ?
Well yes when 1/2 of coventry is solely serviced by national express and no other company how else are people who cant drive ment to get to places?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 07:34:45 PMWell yes when 1/2 of coventry is solely serviced by national express and no other company how else are people who cant drive ment to get to places?
Like everyone else, you either don't go to places, or you have to find and pay for alternate arrangements.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 06:01:56 PMWith drivers strikeing will nx refund taxis trains other forms of transport that people may be required to use during the strikes to get to work, health care, education in place's only nx buses operate?
Why should they? It is not NX's fault that bus services won't be operating, its the unions and their members.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 07:34:45 PMWell yes when 1/2 of coventry is solely serviced by national express and no other company how else are people who cant drive ment to get to places?
I already know what TfWM will come out with, they'll be 'encouraging' people to "walk or cycle instead".
Iv read they maybe on strike till june if true cant TFWM put out emergency tenders to cover most routes that nx run?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 08:14:26 PMIv read they maybe on strike till june if true cant TFWM put out emergency tenders to cover most routes that nx run?
and who do you expect to drive them?
@Tony this question has probably already been asked so I pre-apologise if it has but does this strike effect NEAT and Coach divisions or is it JUST West Midlands division of the company
Quote from: hlliwmai on March 03, 2023, 08:25:36 PM@Tony this question has probably already been asked so I pre-apologise if it has but does this strike effect NEAT and Coach divisions or is it JUST West Midlands division of the company
It's just NXC and NXWM, i.e West Midlands Travel Ltd
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 07:34:45 PMWell yes when 1/2 of coventry is solely serviced by national express and no other company how else are people who cant drive ment to get to places?
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/on-demand-buses-in-the-west-midlands/
Quote from: D10 on March 03, 2023, 08:31:59 PMIt's just NXC and NXWM, i.e West Midlands Travel Ltd
West Midlands Travel Ltd also operate various NX liveried coaches & also NETS coaches out of Aston too.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 03, 2023, 07:34:45 PMWell yes when 1/2 of coventry is solely serviced by national express and no other company how else are people who cant drive ment to get to places?
That's kind of the point. Workers aren't happy with their conditions, they withdraw their labour
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
One to bookmark I suppose?
Quote from: Westy on March 05, 2023, 10:29:06 AMhttps://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
One to bookmark I suppose?
Wonder what a "limited network" would look like. It could also mean there will be no late night and early morning journeys, operating 7AM - 7PM only maybe?
Quote from: 2206 on March 05, 2023, 11:51:10 AMWonder what a "limited network" would look like. It could also mean there will be no late night and early morning journeys, operating 7AM - 7PM only maybe?
Or Could it be like a new years day type of service wheres its one bus ever few hours if your lucky
Quote from: 2206 on March 05, 2023, 11:51:10 AMWonder what a "limited network" would look like.
Think back to what it was like during the first Covid lockdown.
Only this time there will be more passengers travelling!
Quote from: Stu on March 05, 2023, 12:23:39 PMThink back to what it was like during the first Covid lockdown.
Only this time there will be more passengers travelling!
.... and many of the passengers are still coughing and sneezing. Sharing their germs as the bus windows are closed as it's very cold!!!!!!!
Quote from: 2206 on March 05, 2023, 11:51:10 AMWonder what a "limited network" would look like. It could also mean there will be no late night and early morning journeys, operating 7AM - 7PM only maybe?
Only trunk routes will run in my opinion eg 79, 74, 529 but to a reduced frequency. I suppose it depends upon how many drivers are available at each garage.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 05, 2023, 01:39:48 PMOnly trunk routes will run in my opinion eg 79, 74, 529 but to a reduced frequency. I suppose it depends upon how many drivers are available at each garage.
Just wondering if the company knows how many drivers will be available so they can have updated timetables ready or will be left to the last minute and a complete mess
Quote from: 2206 on March 05, 2023, 11:51:10 AMWonder what a "limited network" would look like. It could also mean there will be no late night and early morning journeys, operating 7AM - 7PM only maybe?
probably mostly likely the most important routes with a sunday or similar limited schedule
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 05, 2023, 02:57:50 PMJust wondering if the company knows how many drivers will be available so they can have updated timetables ready or will be left to the last minute and a complete mess
Most likely a lot of the latter. It depends in part how many drivers defy their union and cross the picket lines and on how many non-striking drivers come in.
Maybe its hope more than anything, but I'm of the belief that a resolution will be found within the next two weeks and the strike action will be called off at the last minute.
A resolution hasn't been found in months of negotiations so I highly doubt one will be found in 2 weeks, both sides are poles apart
Surely TfWM routes, school services and lower frequency routes should be prioritised over the "high frequency routes"
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 05, 2023, 09:29:45 PMSurely TfWM routes, school services and lower frequency routes should be prioritised over the "high frequency routes"
Why? The ones with the most passengers should be prioritsed first I think. Especially if there is going to be a very minimal level of service in place.
Think how many passengers use the 14, 50 or the 94. Compared to say the 604. A lot of TFWM routes just go round empty all day.
In March 2020 some TFWM routes run by NX were suspended at that time due to extremely low usage and higher frequency routes prioritised at lower frequencys.
Quote from: Steveminor on March 05, 2023, 09:20:56 PMA resolution hasn't been found in months of negotiations so I highly doubt one will be found in 2 weeks, both sides are poles apart
Perhaps but negotiating and talking the talk is completely different to the reality of striking and walking the walk! It's not as simple as saying months of failed negotiations means a compromise isn't possible, it just needs a sensible offer on the table that would then need to go back to members for a vote and would ultimately delay the mid March strikes whether accepted or not.
I'd be very surprised if an updated offer was not offered in the very near future by NX, whether it would be enough for 50.1% in favour is anyone's guess though.
Quote from: Westy on March 05, 2023, 10:29:06 AMhttps://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
One to bookmark I suppose?
Diamond Service response to NX Strike | Diamond Bus (diamondbuses.com) (https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/diamond-service-response-to-nx-strike/)
Quote from: 2206 on March 05, 2023, 09:34:57 PMWhy? The ones with the most passengers should be prioritsed first I think. Especially if there is going to be a very minimal level of service in place.
Think how many passengers use the 14, 50 or the 94. Compared to say the 604. A lot of TFWM routes just go round empty all day.
In March 2020 some TFWM routes run by NX were suspended at that time due to extremely low usage and higher frequency routes prioritised at lower frequencys.
If NX cancel low-revenue services but put buses out on the 50 when Diamond are running the route then it shows where the true priorities lie. If anything, the TfWM routes should be the ones that have priority coverage as they are the routes they're being partially subsidised.
Quote from: ellspurs on March 06, 2023, 01:11:01 PMIf NX cancel low-revenue services but put buses out on the 50 when Diamond are running the route then it shows where the true priorities lie. If anything, the TfWM routes should be the ones that have priority coverage as they are the routes they're being partially subsidised.
How are all the NX passengers on the 50 going to fit on 1 little solo or streetlite. I'm sure the extra buses would be welcomed by passengers on there.
If the lightly used routes are suspended to then the subsidy could be suspended to couldn't it?
QuoteHow are all the NX passengers on the 50 going to fit on 1 little solo or streetlite. I'm sure the extra buses would be welcomed by passengers on there.
If the lightly used routes are suspended to then the subsidy could be suspended to couldn't it?
But then that leaves passengers who live on those routes stranded.
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 06, 2023, 02:10:41 PMBut then that leaves passengers who live on those routes stranded.
Whether its leaving 50 odd people stranded on the 50 because they can't all fit on the diamond bus or 5 or so people stranded on the 604.
One way or another some people are probably going be affected by strike action.
But as said thats the point of strike action staff are unhappy with the conditons so withdraw their labour and as a result disruption is inevitable.
School services will more than likely take priority over everything else. They had to be covered first when I was at NX before anything else
Quote from: John on March 06, 2023, 02:18:07 PMSchool services will more than likely take priority over everything else. They had to be covered first when I was at NX before anything else
Teachers on strike that day so kids can watch veg web all day reporting what buses they claim to have seen
Quote from: karl724223 on March 06, 2023, 05:32:29 PMTeachers on strike that day so kids can watch veg web all day reporting what buses they claim to have seen
But the strikes are continuous so won't be just that day
Just on itv news worse case scenario no buses for 12 weeks
Quote from: ellspurs on March 06, 2023, 01:11:01 PMIf NX cancel low-revenue services but put buses out on the 50 when Diamond are running the route then it shows where the true priorities lie. If anything, the TfWM routes should be the ones that have priority coverage as they are the routes they're being partially subsidised.
In your perfect world maybe but certainly not in the world of business. It makes perfect business sense to put your limited (very limited in this scenario) resources on your most profitable routes, other routes including tendered will miss out.
There may be some penalty for not fulfilling tendered services but it would still be far less than the loss of income from that bus not being on the profitable route.
Look at Stagecoach, you honestly think they prioritise their West Mids tenders over their profitable routes in Warwickshire? Driver shortage = tendered routes suffering first pretty much every time (unless the tender itself is particularly lucrative of course!).
NX is a business, they won't purposefully help a rival company by staying off a route they compete on, in the same way Diamond would prioritise the 50 over less profitable stuff if their drivers ever unionised and went on strike.
Quote from: karl724223 on March 06, 2023, 06:07:45 PMJust on itv news worse case scenario no buses for 12 weeks
Happened in Sheffield with First about 15 years ago when I worked there. Was the beginning of a slippery slope that allowed Stagecoach in after taking over Yorkshire Traction.
Hopefully NX have more sense than First did then and meet the drivers half way.
Quote from: karl724223 on March 06, 2023, 06:07:45 PMJust on itv news worse case scenario no buses for 12 weeks
12 weeks is when Unite run out of strike pay!
Quote from: j789 on March 06, 2023, 06:16:02 PMHappened in Sheffield with First about 15 years ago when I worked there. Was the beginning of a slippery slope that allowed Stagecoach in after taking over Yorkshire Traction.
Hopefully NX have more sense than First did then and meet the drivers half way.
Just read this on the website: Why can't you just pay what your employees are asking for and avoid strike action?We have made an offer, which we believe is fair and responsible. We are continuing to talk to the union and assure you that we are doing everything we can to resolve this matter.Seems like national express are sticking with there offer
Quote from: karl724223 on March 06, 2023, 06:07:45 PMJust on itv news worse case scenario no buses for 12 weeks
That's good news for Diamond & other WM independents.
Bad news for NX drivers on strike pay.
The reason why operators prioritise tenders over commercial (under normal circumstances) is because on the commercial side, it's just one bus missing. The passengers will get the next bus, particularly on routes like the 50 where the reality is, nobody would notice if one or two buses are missing. By doing this, the company does not incur any penalty with TfWM, as the tendered route is covered. Diamond employ the same tactic with the 57/58 in Redditch, where if a bus is needed elsewhere to cover a tendered service, they'll pinch the bus and/or driver and redeploy.
The scenario we have now is different. There will only be a minuscule amount of staff available to drive, therefore a minuscule amount of vehicles on the road. Common sense would be that these will be strategically utilised on where they'll return the maximum amount of revenue/passengers. Tendered services come nowhere near the amount of revenue/passengers as most Birmingham trunk routes generate.
I don't expect any tendered services to be operated, should the strike go ahead.
Will we see NXWM approach other smaller operators to cover some of their mileage, or will any other operators step in themselves to contribute to mileage lost..? It happened in Manchester a few years ago with the Go North West strikes.
Quote from: MW on March 06, 2023, 07:02:17 PMWill we see NXWM approach other smaller operators to cover some of their mileage, or will any other operators step in themselves to contribute to mileage lost..? It happened in Manchester a few years ago with the Go North West strikes.
It's an interesting thought that I had myself, however with the few operators we have now, I doubt many have enough spare buses or drivers in order to fill in on some services, plus there's the issue of registering those services and journeys in time.
Quote from: Stu on March 06, 2023, 07:08:58 PMIt's an interesting thought that I had myself, however with the few operators we have now, I doubt many have enough spare buses or drivers in order to fill in on some services, plus there's the issue of registering those services and journeys in time.
Timing isn't an issue due to the circumstances.
There's loads of operators in the Midlands, just not bus operators. Don't forget, coaches were being used too.
https://flic.kr/p/2kJaWeU
Quote from: MW on March 06, 2023, 07:18:20 PMTiming isn't an issue due to the circumstances.
There's loads of operators in the Midlands, just not bus operators. Don't forget, coaches were being used too.
https://flic.kr/p/2kJaWeU
One of the main issues is availability of Euro 6 vehicles, it would be horrendous press for TfWM to relax the rulings to allow more polluting buses into clean air zones, no matter what situation presents itself. Also, coaches are no good on stop start urban work, even the 'accessible' vehicles of modern times wouldn't deal with your average bus passenger with pushchairs, wheelchairs, shopping etc.
Also, there is a reason coach drivers choose that work, absolutely no chance would they be willing to work multiple weeks driving through the sh*tholes of Brum instead of cushy school workings or OAP tours. No chance!
Quote from: MW on March 06, 2023, 07:18:20 PMTiming isn't an issue due to the circumstances.
There's loads of operators in the Midlands, just not bus operators. Don't forget, coaches were being used too.
https://flic.kr/p/2kJaWeU
The other thing to consider when comparing GNW vs NXWM strike cover is scale i.e. GNW 200 buses vs NXWM 1400 buses
Couldn't NETS cover some of the work, like they did during COVID? Use coaches on the schools, registered as routes ran by Woods or TKF?
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 06, 2023, 09:22:51 PMCouldn't NETS cover some of the work, like they did during COVID? Use coaches on the schools, registered as routes ran by Woods or TKF?
Not sure if that would be possible in the short time frame. Would it be legal?
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 06, 2023, 09:22:51 PMCouldn't NETS cover some of the work, like they did during COVID? Use coaches on the schools, registered as routes ran by Woods or TKF?
NETS had plenty of spare coaches & drivers during Covid, they're not likely to be in the same position this time around.
'This is our best and final offer': National Express boss urges drivers to back down from strikes
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2023/03/07/national-express-boss-urges-bus-drivers-to-back-down-from-continuous-strike-action-saying-there-is-no-more-money-available/
Quote from: Stu on March 07, 2023, 07:45:17 PM'This is our best and final offer': National Express boss urges drivers to back down from strikes
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2023/03/07/national-express-boss-urges-bus-drivers-to-back-down-from-continuous-strike-action-saying-there-is-no-more-money-available/
Pity the E&S article is quoting the entire NX Group turnover & profits rather than just WMT Limited t/a NXWM figures, but then again they are being mislead by the Unite Statements.
Of the £2.8 Billion NX Group Turnover, it is broken down as follows:ALSA = £962.5 Million (34%)North America = £1048.2 Million (37%)UK = £528.3 Million (19%)German Rail = £268.5 Million (10%)The £197.3 NX Group Profit:ALSA = £103.9 MillionNorth America = £68.4 MillionUK = £25.6 Million (Which includes National Express West Midlands & Coventry, National Express Coaches, National Express Transport Solutions & National Express Accessible Transport)German Rail = £17.6 MillionThe subsidary accounts aren't on Companies House yet, but the prior year accounts show West Midlands Travel Ltd (t/a National Express West Midlands) up to 31st Dec 2021:Turnover = £279.7 MillionOperating Profit = £11.6 Million (4.1% operating profit margin)Contrary to what Unite say, NX Group shareholders have had no dividends in 3 years. In addition NX's share price has over halved post Covid from circa £3.30+ in early 2021 down to £1.41 currently.
Quote from: winston on March 07, 2023, 08:45:14 PMPity the E&S article is quoting the entire NX Group turnover & profits rather than just WMT Limited t/a NXWM figures, but then again they are being mislead by the Unite Statements.
Exactly, the media are fuelling this 'perception' among the general public that NX West Midlands should "pay their staff what they demand" because they believe that NX West Midlands is raking in millions of pounds of profit, which is fundamentally untrue.
I know they're not available yet, but I bet the NX Bus profits for 2022 are even lower, what with increased operating costs, as all other bus operators are struggling with.
Quote from: Stu on March 07, 2023, 08:54:33 PMExactly, the media are fuelling this 'perception' among the general public that NX West Midlands should "pay their staff what they demand" because they believe that NX West Midlands is raking in millions of pounds of profit, which is fundamentally untrue.
I know they're not available yet, but I bet the NX Bus profits for 2022 are even lower, what with increased operating costs, as all other bus operators are struggling with.
The price of diesel has reduced significantly in the last few months. And the cost of running EVs, the volume of which has increased significantly in the last few months also, is less than conventional buses (and should reduce even more when the 75% reduction in wholesale gas prices feeds into electricity prices).
Quote from: don on March 08, 2023, 01:38:44 AMThe price of diesel has reduced significantly in the last few months. And the cost of running EVs, the volume of which has increased significantly in the last few months also, is less than conventional buses (and should reduce even more when the 75% reduction in wholesale gas prices feeds into electricity prices).
Diesel price changes don't have any effect. All diesel to mid 2025 already had the price agreed in a process call hedging
So we now know that the strike action will continue everyday until they get a result. Hope it doesn't last too long.
Quote from: PB50 on March 08, 2023, 08:08:56 PMSo we now know that the strike action will continue everyday until they get a result. Hope it doesn't last too long
Gave them a week and there be back working
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/birmingham/2023/03/08/row-erupts-over-national-express-west-midlands-hospital-route-network-plan-ahead-of-strike-action/
Intriguing?
Quote from: Westy on March 09, 2023, 12:04:07 AMhttps://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/birmingham/2023/03/08/row-erupts-over-national-express-west-midlands-hospital-route-network-plan-ahead-of-strike-action/
Intriguing?
Cant they bring in the coach arm of national express as i know they can get coaches in at UHCW
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 09, 2023, 06:58:33 AMCant they bring in the coach arm of national express as i know they can get coaches in at UHCW
Where will the drivers come from ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 09, 2023, 08:05:42 AMWhere will the drivers come from ?
NETS as its only the west midlands bus drivers who are on strike
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 09, 2023, 09:23:04 AMNETS as its only the west midlands bus drivers who are on strike
And who drives all the contracts and National Express coaches?
hope they sort out the strike
From what I hear this morning from a bus driver there's another meeting today with unite so maybe the strike action will be resolved before it starts.
This thread with comments from 'DriverNX' give a good indication how drivers feel & what their issues are:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/
So from that thread:
Unite have refused to put the latest pay offer out to vote (which I can say I've had drivers I know say that) and NX was threatening redundancies on previous pay offers?
They're both as bad as each other.
Manley Summers (driver agency) have sent out a message specifically calling for ex NX Coventry drivers to contact them for a temporary contract commencing Monday at £18 per hour.
They've never specified that they want former drivers before, so this must be a direct response to the strikes next week.
Why have unite not put it to the members
Quote from: Solo1 on March 09, 2023, 04:51:19 PMWhy have unite not put it to the members
Good question they probably think by striking they can get a higer % offer from nx
Quote from: Solo1 on March 09, 2023, 04:51:19 PMWhy have unite not put it to the members
For the same reason the Government don't put items before Conservative Party members before Parliament (and in some cases not even before Parliament).
It's what's called representation.
Btw, it'll be difficult to rely on any bus service during a strike - Agencies or not. Remember agency workers don't get the level of paid holiday, sick pay etc etc so getting under £7 per hr more than a Costa Barista (not to demean Costa staff - it's just an example) for such a responsible job is hardly brilliant. Some of us may have views on companies trying to make a swift buck out of an industrial dispute (morally bereft etc!!!) as well.
Quote from: winston on March 09, 2023, 02:59:38 PMThis thread with comments from 'DriverNX' give a good indication how drivers feel & what their issues are:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/
Interesting read which provides some context and background to the dispute. Balanced and considered input from 'DriverNX'. Does seem that drivers consider themselves to be poorly treated by NX though. The part about the threat of redundancies is bizarre; they're unable to recruit or retain drivers so aren't in a position of strength to be using that as a bargaining tool.
Quote from: MW on March 09, 2023, 04:19:42 PMManley Summers (driver agency) have sent out a message specifically calling for ex NX Coventry drivers to contact them for a temporary contract commencing Monday at £18 per hour.
They've never specified that they want former drivers before, so this must be a direct response to the strikes next week.
Stagecoach Warwickshire planning to run services on NXC main corridors during the strikes from Nuneaton????
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 10, 2023, 09:30:17 AMStagecoach Warwickshire planning to run services on NXC main corridors during the strikes from Nuneaton????
Nuneaton can't run their own services, they have agency in covering existing work.
Quote from: winston on March 09, 2023, 02:59:38 PMThis thread with comments from 'DriverNX' give a good indication how drivers feel & what their issues are:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/
Balanced and possibly nearer the views of NX drivers.
A lot of dissatisfaction with the company for failing to deliver the changes to shifts and rotas that were promised, which if they had been adopted would have enabled drivers to have a better work-life balance and would have helped with driver retention and stopped the churn of training drivers only to lose them a few months later. No wonder so much mileage is being lost and the service so unreliable.
Dissatisfaction with UNITE too, who to be blunt have been abysmal at representing the interests of their members properly at work for years and too busy playing politics in the Labour Party (bringing us the leadership of Miliband and Corbyn). This may be why the pay and conditions across the bus industry have not kept pace with other sectors.
UNITE's intentions have been laid bare by the revelation that the latest offer from NXWM has not been put to a ballot. If so, it could be argued the ballot for industrial action was invalid and not based on the offer put and an injunction applied for at the High Court. NX need to get their skates on.
"A plague on both their houses", as a writer from Stratford-upon-Avon once said. Trouble is, it is the bus passengers and the drivers who are in the middle of this battle between a poor management and a poor union.
Quote from: Straightlines on March 10, 2023, 09:40:06 AMNuneaton can't run their own services, they have agency in covering existing work.
Same agency though???
Under Industrial Relations laws, you cannot take on agency workers specifically to cover staff taking industrial action, so it can't be NXC for the continuous strike.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 10, 2023, 09:58:27 AMSame agency though???
Under Industrial Relations laws, you cannot take on agency workers specifically to cover staff taking industrial action, so it can't be NXC for the continuous strike.
Manley Summers is recruiting ex NXC drivers for NXC. You must be able to start Monday.
So yes, it is NXC.
Quote from: MW on March 10, 2023, 10:01:48 AMManley Summers is recruiting ex NXC drivers for NXC. You must be able to start Monday.
So yes, it is NXC.
Starting work
before the strike days. Wonder how that will go down with the existing Coventry staff.
Also, what happens if the strike is called off?
Of course, NX will be paying extra too as they are paying the wages and a pretty penny to the agency. Higher costs which won't be recouped with fares as they are.
Latest Unite Statement:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/national-express-blasted-for-union-busting-bullying-to-break-coming-strike-of-midlands-bus-workers/
"NX have Billions in the bank apparently....." 🤔🤣🤣
Quote from: winston on March 10, 2023, 11:12:13 AMLatest Unite Statement:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/national-express-blasted-for-union-busting-bullying-to-break-coming-strike-of-midlands-bus-workers/
Wonder if we could get a statement from the company about the allegations made in this statement
Services running on strike days:
BC 97 X21 (City to Weoley Castle only), PB 28 (Old Oscott to Heartlands only) X4, YW 6, AG 4.
WN 59 529, PN 6. WB 5 87 (City to Oldbury only), WA 51.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
28 and X4 hourly. 97 every half hour, X21 every 40 mins. As expected late night services are also suspended.
Is there any chance that 28 could be rerouted to allow it to have a double decker platinum possibly?
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2023, 11:46:58 AMServices running on strike days:
BC 97 X21 (City to Weoley Castle only), PB 28 (Old Oscott to Heartlands only) X4, YW 6, AG 4.
WN 59 529, PN 6. WB 5 87, WA 51.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
28 and X4 hourly. 97 and X21 every half hour.
Is there any chance that 28 could be rerouted to allow it to have a double decker platinum possibly?
Wonder when cv will post theres
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2023, 11:46:58 AMServices running on strike days:
BC 97 X21 (City to Weoley Castle only), PB 28 (Old Oscott to Heartlands only) X4, YW 6, AG 4.
WN 59 529, PN 6. WB 5 87, WA 51.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
28 and X4 hourly. 97 every half hour, X21 every 40 mins. As expected late night services are also suspended.
Is there any chance that 28 could be rerouted to allow it to have a double decker platinum possibly?
As expected largely to provide transport for essential hospital workers as most I think serve major hospitals including Heartlands, QE, Good Hope, City Hospital, New Cross, Russell's Hall etc
No NX services in Wolverhampton except 529 and 59.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 10, 2023, 11:55:30 AMWonder when cv will post theres
I'm guessing that when its announced if its like WM, it will probably be focused mostly on services that serve UHCW? The 9 probably?
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2023, 01:07:30 PMI'm guessing that when its announced if its like WM, it will probably be focused mostly on services that serve UHCW? The 9 probably?
I hope that they run so staff can get to UHCW or if CCC can put on shuttles for staff
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 10, 2023, 12:57:51 PMNo NX services in Wolverhampton except 529 and 59.
Looks like I might have been right regarding Walsall.
Just a 51 running.
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2023, 11:46:58 AMServices running on strike days:
BC 97 X21 (City to Weoley Castle only), PB 28 (Old Oscott to Heartlands only) X4, YW 6, AG 4.
WN 59 529, PN 6. WB 5 87 (City to Oldbury only), WA 51.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
28 and X4 hourly. 97 every half hour, X21 every 40 mins. As expected late night services are also suspended.
Is there any chance that 28 could be rerouted to allow it to have a double decker platinum possibly?
That page has been updated again, no longer shows this information.
Quote from: Stu on March 10, 2023, 03:44:18 PMThat page has been updated again, no longer shows this information.
It's showing it for me, even when I refresh.
It's in a drop down menu.
Quote from: Stu on March 10, 2023, 03:44:18 PMThat page has been updated again, no longer shows this information.
It's still there, however no Coventry info as yet.
Quote from: MW on March 10, 2023, 03:45:16 PMIt's showing it for me, even when I refresh.
It's in a drop down menu.
Yeah, I see again now, must have been briefly 'unpublished' at the time I checked.
Quote from: 2206 on March 10, 2023, 11:46:58 AMServices running on strike days:
BC 97 X21 (City to Weoley Castle only), PB 28 (Old Oscott to Heartlands only) X4, YW 6, AG 4.
WN 59 529, PN 6. WB 5 87 (City to Oldbury only), WA 51.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
28 and X4 hourly. 97 every half hour, X21 every 40 mins. As expected late night services are also suspended.
Is there any chance that 28 could be rerouted to allow it to have a double decker platinum possibly?
Wonder if the x1 will be under coventrys operation
No because Coventry doesn't run the X1?
Quote from: Stu on March 10, 2023, 03:57:09 PMYeah, I see again now, must have been briefly 'unpublished' at the time I checked.
It has now gone. Perhaps so that the Coventry services can be added?
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 10, 2023, 04:38:12 PMIt has now gone. Perhaps so that the Coventry services can be added?
They'll go on the strike action page on the NX Coventry website.
Back again, the link stopped working.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 10, 2023, 04:41:27 PMBack again, the link stopped working.
It went on strike 😂
QuoteAs expected largely to provide transport for essential hospital workers as most I think serve major hospitals including Heartlands, QE, Good Hope, City Hospital, New Cross, Russell's Hall etc
Bit of a Chocolate Teapot solution for those changing shifts at 10pm or 6am then?
I note the token 97 service. Needn't bother on my account, I'll be walking rather than deliberately breaking Industrial action.
I note obviously NX tickets will not be able to used on other operators services, but how does this affect the Partnership routes, such as the 31 & 32, where NX tickets are accepted /issued on Diamond vehicles?
I'm assuming no change to the arrangement?
I guess I'll be ok with NBus as usual.
Quote from: Westy on March 11, 2023, 11:47:34 AMI note obviously NX tickets will not be able to used on other operators services, but how does this affect the Partnership routes, such as the 31 & 32, where NX tickets are accepted /issued on Diamond vehicles?
I'm assuming no change to the arrangement?
I guess I'll be ok with NBus as usual.
That's correct as NBus are valid on any bus (except Select) in the NBus area. I buy one because my local buses are operated by Let's Go and NX.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 11, 2023, 12:41:34 PMThat's correct as NBus are valid on any bus (except Select) in the NBus area. I buy one because my local buses are operated by Let's Go and NX.
But what about the Partnership arrangement, as that needs to be clarified?
Quote from: Westy on March 11, 2023, 01:18:18 PMBut what about the Partnership arrangement, as that needs to be clarified?
Shouldn't make any difference.
Does Diamond have any double deckers as the 16/40 are among the services operated by both NX and Diamond are going to struggle if Diamond use single deckers as I can see with the 40 route buses will be every 24 minutes mean passengers struggling in rush hour.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 11, 2023, 03:16:34 PMDoes Diamond have any double deckers as the 16/40 are among the services operated by both NX and Diamond are going to struggle if Diamond use single deckers as I can see with the 40 route buses will be every 24 minutes mean passengers struggling in rush hour.
Not unless they transfer any between divisions between now & Thursday!
All the ones from Central Buses went up North didn't they?
Quote from: Westy on March 11, 2023, 05:34:15 PMNot unless they transfer any between divisions between now & Thursday!
All the ones from Central Buses went up North didn't they?
Redditch has 5 x Deckers & there's some more on the way
Is Andy Street aware that the West Midlands bus network will grind to a halt in a few days?
He seems very quick to get his photograph next to new vehicles or like a few days ago when he triumphed Diamond's service cut reversal - but radio silence on the pending disaster !
Quote from: metrocity on March 11, 2023, 07:02:29 PMIs Andy Street aware that the West Midlands bus network will grind to a halt in a few days?
He seems very quick to get his photograph next to new vehicles or like a few days ago when he triumphed Diamond's service cut reversal - but radio silence on the pending disaster !
If its not positive news then he dont seem interested
Do you think the strike will be quickly resolved or will it take months to resolve the pay dispute.
If the strike goes for ages what options do TfWM to get passengers moving.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 11, 2023, 07:47:47 PMIf the strike goes for ages what options do TfWM to get passengers moving.
"Walk or cycle instead"
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 11, 2023, 07:47:47 PMDo you think the strike will be quickly resolved or will it take months to resolve the pay dispute.
If the strike goes for ages what options do TfWM to get passengers moving.
Could they not do emergency tenders to cover the routes would love to see uk transport have a shot only downside would be the fact that every bus needs to be euro 6
Quote from: metrocity on March 11, 2023, 07:02:29 PMIs Andy Street aware that the West Midlands bus network will grind to a halt in a few days?
He seems very quick to get his photograph next to new vehicles or like a few days ago when he triumphed Diamond's service cut reversal - but radio silence on the pending disaster !
Politicians are only interested when they can claim to take credit for something 'positive' that they have had little involvement in.
See:
https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?msg=310448
Otherwise its a case of "it's somebody else's fault".
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 11, 2023, 07:14:22 PMIf its not positive news then he dont seem interested
Ditto Eddie Hughes MP for Walsall North.
If it involves Willenhall station, then he's there in a flash!
I asked him twice on his Facebook page whether he had an opinion, being a bus driver's son, on the strike.
Silence.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 11, 2023, 08:21:42 PMCould they not do emergency tenders to cover the routes would love to see uk transport have a shot only downside would be the fact that every bus needs to be euro 6
They can't really issue tenders when they have no long how long they will need to be for, it might be over in days or heaven forbid months.
And of course there is the driver issue, where will all these driver that would be needed come from.
Quote from: D10 on March 11, 2023, 08:48:32 PMThey can't really issue tenders when they have no long how long they will need to be for, it might be over in days or heaven forbid months.
And of course there is the driver issue, where will all these driver that would be needed come from.
Cant the army be drafted in they did it with the lorry driver shortage
It's not life and death. The army are not required!
Quote from: BMJ1970 on March 11, 2023, 09:15:47 PMIt's not life and death. The army are not required!
Well half of coventry has no buses and andy street doesn't seem to care about it, nx have seem to have left thngs to the last minute and now have seemed to enter panic mode
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 11, 2023, 08:21:42 PMCould they not do emergency tenders to cover the routes would love to see uk transport have a shot only downside would be the fact that every bus needs to be euro 6
All Abellio/UK Transport buses are Euro6, but as found by Stagecoach, where do the drivers come from?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 11, 2023, 09:53:56 PMWell half of coventry has no buses and andy street doesn't seem to care about it, nx have seem to have left thngs to the last minute and now have seemed to enter panic mode
I think you'll find it's the union that has caused the delay here as the company wouldn't know if any last minute pay offer would be offered to members to be voted on or whether this initial strike was set in stone whether a new offer came in or not.
It is not realistic to expect a company in this position to plan weeks ahead for this strike as clearly they would have hoped that a compromise with their workers was reached. Maybe it still will but not looking very likely.
Also, why criticise Andy Street for this when he can't personally get involved in any industrial dispute between a private company and its employees? I'd much rather have Andy 'I love a photo' Street as mayor than Andy 'I'm about to waste all your money and will then blame someone else' Burnham!
Quote from: j789 on March 11, 2023, 10:01:16 PMI think you'll find it's the union that has caused the delay here as the company wouldn't know if any last minute pay offer would be offered to members to be voted on or whether this initial strike was set in stone whether a new offer came in or not.
It is not realistic to expect a company in this position to plan weeks ahead for this strike as clearly they would have hoped that a compromise with their workers was reached. Maybe it still will but not looking very likely.
Also, why criticise Andy Street for this when he can't personally get involved in any industrial dispute between a private company and its employees? I'd much rather have Andy 'I love a photo' Street as mayor than Andy 'I'm about to waste all your money and will then blame someone else' Burnham!
Compromise on the strike action in the first instance while negotiations are in progress such as in the first instance no services after 7pm every day, then no services before 7am, no Saturday or Sunday service then if all fails all out strike.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 12, 2023, 08:40:22 AMCompromise on the strike action in the first instance while negotiations are in progress such as in the first instance no services after 7pm every day, then no services before 7am, no Saturday or Sunday service then if all fails all out strike.
That requires common sense
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 11, 2023, 08:21:42 PMCould they not do emergency tenders to cover the routes would love to see uk transport have a shot only downside would be the fact that every bus needs to be euro 6
Would drivers from other companies and members of Unite be willing to run services instead of fellow union members? Would they be able to refuse?
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 12, 2023, 10:28:48 AMWould drivers from other companies and members of Unite be willing to run services instead of fellow union members? Would they be able to refuse?
The point of a strike is to cause the maximum amount of disruption possible. Clearly Unite are not going to encourage or allow members from other bus companies in the same union to undermine the efforts of the NX drivers! It would only be the cow boy type companies who do not recognise a union, and don't give their drivers that protection, whose drivers could possibly run such things.
And let's be honest any driver working for a company like that that doesn't protect worker rights is not going to be very high quality anyway if the only driving job they can get is with such a cowboy company.
Quote from: j789 on March 12, 2023, 10:40:59 AMThe point of a strike is to cause the maximum amount of disruption possible. Clearly Unite are not going to encourage or allow members from other bus companies in the same union to undermine the efforts of the NX drivers! It would only be the cow boy type companies who do not recognise a union, and don't give their drivers that protection, whose drivers could possibly run such things.
And let's be honest any driver working for a company like that that doesn't protect worker rights is not going to be very high quality anyway if the only driving job they can get is with such a cowboy company.
Are you being serious?
Quote from: metrocity on March 12, 2023, 10:49:14 AMAre you being serious?
Totally and as usual I'm guessing your previous company/ies didn't recognise unions hence your statement?
There is a reason why 'certain' companies don't recognise union membership and guidelines - their drivers don't have any comeback or support if they query any management decision. Easy to get away with 'dodgy' practices then.
NX/First/ Stagecoach etc drivers (whose companies have union agreements) can happily refuse to take a bus out if they feel there is a fault, not fully type trained, etc etc KNOWING THAT THEY WILL HAVE UNION SUPPORT FROM THEIR REP!
Now, you imagine that situation with a 'cowboy' company with no union reps or support, are you honestly saying that those drivers would have the same confidence to refuse what the management asked - of course they wouldn't!
No doubt you'll be sending an incoming lecture about how much your drivers loved working for your company and what high standards you had (which I am not necessarily doubting by the way) however it is a complete joke (and you should know with your experience) to say other such companies would not take advantage of drivers in this way where there is no union protection.
I am sure some drivers are decent and happy to accept this situation yet it is also VERY true that such companies also end up with those less than decent drivers who've been sacked by other companies. So yes I am being very serious Metrocity!
The above poster posting rubbish as usual I see
Quote from: MW on March 12, 2023, 11:32:20 AMThe above poster posting rubbish as usual I see
And how many companies have you been through in the West Mids - odd you didn't stay with each company very long, makes you wonder!
And also anyone please name a few examples of 'quality' companies that don't have union recognition to prove what I said is rubbish,I'll wait 👍👍👍
I'm a driver who's not a member of a union who's worked for many companies round the West Midlands, does that make me a cowboy driver then or any off the companies I've worked for anymore/less cowboys than NX.
Quote from: Lukeee on March 12, 2023, 01:05:25 PMI'm a driver who's not a member of a union who's worked for many companies round the West Midlands, does that make me a cowboy driver then or any off the companies I've worked for anymore/less cowboys than NX.
I am also in the above position.
Perhaps j789 should consider that there's no warrant for a union if your employer treats you fairly and sensibly. Perhaps the existence of having a recognised union amongst a workforce speaks volumes on the kind of employer such party works for.
Are you capable of seeing things from another point of view j789?
Quote from: Lukeee on March 12, 2023, 01:05:25 PMI'm a driver who's not a member of a union who's worked for many companies round the West Midlands, does that make me a cowboy driver then or any off the companies I've worked for anymore/less cowboys than NX.
I think the difference is if you are not in the union because you feel you are looked after well enough by your employer, or not in the union because your employer won't recognise a union even if you personally joined. It is the second that are generally the cowboys.
Quote from: j789 on March 12, 2023, 11:37:37 AMAnd also anyone please name a few examples of 'quality' companies that don't have union recognition to prove what I said is rubbish,I'll wait 👍👍👍
Can you name the operators in the West Midlands area that you feel aren't of "quality".
I sense that some members may not wish to disclose their employer.
Quote from: MW on March 12, 2023, 01:09:32 PMI am also in the above position.
Perhaps j789 should consider that there's no warrant for a union if your employer treats you fairly and sensibly. Perhaps the existence of having a recognised union amongst a workforce speaks volumes on the kind of employer such party works for.
Are you capable of seeing things from another point of view j789?
And you tell me that I speak rubbish! "There's no warrant for a union if your employer treats you fairly and sensibly" is a ridiculously short sighted view!
Being in a union gives you protection from future decisions that may be to the detriment of working conditions and wages. It also guarantees you that there is someone there to support you should you have a grievance against any other member of staff, management or otherwise. In the example you use, you have NO PROTECTION should someone suddenly take a disliking to you and decide they want you out of the job.
How can you not see that basic fact that the union protects you from that? Say you suddenly got ill and needed regular time off, having no union representation will likely mean that your employer would find a way to get rid of you quickly to save them the hassle. Being in a union gives you protection against this.
What maternity leave rights dies your company or others give female drivers - I bet it is the most basic statutory rights because, let's face it, no company is going to pay extra money to someone if they can avoid it. What about paternity leave? With the union, you can at least rely on them to ensure you have a job to go back too - the alternative without them is you have to fight yourself through the employment court for unfair dismissal. Having the union in your corner takes that hassle away.
I'm sorry if you think I don't see things from your point of view but I know plenty of drivers who have been shafted by these sort of cowboy companies because they didn't toe the line, eg purposefully blocking competitors in, running 1 minute in front of the competition, driving past concession holders to get cash fares, working too many driver hours a fortnight, etc etc. Plenty of West Mids companies did this, fortunately most have folded or gone under now.
In 95% of cases, there is something 'suspicious' when a company won't recognise a union because they know it will be far harder to get away with dodgy practices because they are under more scrutiny. I have very high standards of what I expect from fellow employees and drivers, the least I'd expect is that they have the self-desire to be protected from abuse and manipulation by being in a union.
More fool you if you think your happy little non-union existence is guaranteed for the rest of your career, find one person who takes a dislike to you and you'll be gone with no one to fight your corner. I don't understand how you can't see that.
Quote from: MW on March 12, 2023, 01:30:57 PMCan you name the operators in the West Midlands area that you feel aren't of "quality".
I sense that some members may not wish to disclose their employer.
I will name the West Mids employers that I know have union reps and recognition. NX, First, Stagecoach and Arriva.
Now, I believe Rotala also recognise unions in the garages taken over in the North West as the previous owners did and those conditions would have been 'tupe'd over. However, I do not know if the West Mids ops recognise a union. I am guessing no as if it was Unite they would likely be also supporting the industrial action by NX drivers to get bigger wages across the board for themselves too as this would cause even more disruption. I am happy to be corrected here though by any Diamond employee as they may well do.
As for any other companies, I can't see why any employee would have an issue with saying if their company had union representation or not. It adds to the debate and perhaps they can give further reasons why they don't see it as a problem to not have that representation. Otherwise, I think the silence backs up what I am saying here.
@j789 Can you just clarify something? Earlier you posted the following:
It would only be the cow boy type companies who do not recognise a union, and don't give their drivers that protection, whose drivers could possibly run such things.Do you consider the following operators as "cow boy type companies"?Johnson'sLandFlightEndeavourRidley'sKevs A simple yes or no will be sufficient.
Thanks
Quote from: MW on March 12, 2023, 02:34:02 PM@j789
Can you just clarify something? Earlier you posted the following:
It would only be the cow boy type companies who do not recognise a union, and don't give their drivers that protection, whose drivers could possibly run such things.
Do you consider the following operators as "cow boy type companies"?
Johnson's
LandFlight
Endeavour
Ridley's
Kevs
A simple yes or no will be sufficient.
Thanks
Well a 'simple yes or no' answer won't apply here obviously 🙄
Johnsons, Endeavour and Ridley's operate coaches only so they are a completely different scenario - bus and coach drivers are a completely different type of person, as you should well know. You won't get many coach drivers transferring to bus work that is for sure so you can't apply your argument here - it seems very odd you've included those coach only companies.
Johnson's reputation for quality is well known industry wide hence who can assume when they did have bus stage work their drivers would have also been held to the highest standards as they are with the coaches. It would be very interesting to know exactly how many former Johnson's drivers transferred over to Diamond with the purchase of the bus work. If it wasn't near 100% you can probably argue that shows that Johnson's were great employers and they knew the new company may not be quite the same.
Kev's seem a perfectly good operator - the fact they have never been the sort of operator that ran in competition with others on the same routes speaks volumes. Landflight is the same. However, I'd ask you at the next round of tendering, if they lost all their Solihull work to another operator, what would happen to your job? Do you have a set contract that guarantees some sort of payoff in the event of being made redundant? First certainly do this as will NX, Stagecoach, etc. What is your pension projection like? Does your company offer any sort of share save options so you can benefit with the companies success? Unions will ensure that pension money cannot be misused as they scrutinise everything - I hope your employer has an equal scrutiny of any company they use for their employees long term financial wellbeing. These sort of contracts are a safety net and prevents drivers having to move jobs to a new company every few years when tendered work changes hands. Im not sure how you can argue against that point.
The cowboy operators most of us really mean are those from the post deregulation era through the 90s and early 2000s. Thankfully most of these have gone now but it doesn't mean there are cases still around today. All I'm advocating is protecting yourself from malicious passenger and company claims. I don't get why you are unable to see the benefits of union membership purely based on this protection if nothing else.
As an aside, despite being a long term union member, I have also posted a number of times on here showing my dislike of certain union practices and I do think they should be far more willing to compromise in the current NX negotiations for everyone's sake. I am certainly not a mouthpiece for them but really am mystified by your insistence that you are somehow better off at a company with no union representation. Long term you really will not be.
If you want a simple yes or no answer, ask a simple yes or no question!
While I can't answer whether Diamond West Midlands has Union representation, it is illegal to come out in a sympathy strike j789 so Diamond drivers would not be permitted to strike in support of NX employees.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 12, 2023, 06:54:13 PMWhile I can't answer whether Diamond West Midlands has Union representation, it is illegal to come out in a sympathy strike j789 so Diamond drivers would not be permitted to strike in support of NX employees.
Generally Unite are the Union that have a recognition agreement across all our depots. There are some differences in the North West with Engineers/ Office staff/ having a different Union in place.
I believe this is the same Union as National Express. We have elected reps at all the Midlands depots and at present, all but one posts are empty.
I would like to think, as the West Midlands is the original home to our business we are close to our people.
Some of the reasons listed in this thread for being in a Union are statutory requirement. So either way, they will receive this benefit.
Union representation/ recognition is a fact of life for large bus garages.
As a new deiver currently in the latter stages of my training with NX I am actually nervous with this strike action because to be able to go to my garage on the 20th to finalise the training process and be assigned my duties I will have to cross the picket line. Now I am part of the union and having to cross the picket line to be able to do what I need to do for my career is causing me great concern because of the stigma attached to those who cross. Having been a passenger for many years I can obviously understand the point of view of the travelling public and I sympathise with all those who will be affected. I sincerely hope this dispute can be worked out by the company and the union and a happy medium ground is found for both sides because I'm itching and looking forward to carrying my first load of passengers in service, call me naive or call me stupid for getting into the company with all this going on but for me it's been a life long ambition to become a driver and I'm thrilled that I get the chance to do what I wanted to do since I was a little kid
Quote from: dw1308 on March 12, 2023, 07:58:41 PMAs a new deiver currently in the latter stages of my training with NX I am actually nervous with this strike action because to be able to go to my garage on the 20th to finalise the training process and be assigned my duties I will have to cross the picket line. Now I am part of the union and having to cross the picket line to be able to do what I need to do for my career is causing me great concern because of the stigma attached to those who cross. Having been a passenger for many years I can obviously understand the point of view of the travelling public and I sympathise with all those who will be affected. I sincerely hope this dispute can be worked out by the company and the union and a happy medium ground is found for both sides because I'm itching and looking forward to carrying my first load of passengers in service, call me naive or call me stupid for getting into the company with all this going on but for me it's been a life long ambition to become a driver and I'm thrilled that I get the chance to do what I wanted to do since I was a little kid
It's a great job 99% of the time, just don't let the 1% wear you down. As for the pickets, the union reps I have worked with have all had a decent amount of common sense and I'm sure your garage rep will be the same. There is no way that them or any of the other drivers would see a new starter like yourself, in this situation, in a bad light.
Just do your thing and focus on building up your in service confidence. You're certainly going to be thrown in the deep end as will be likely very busy with the minimal service operated, but if you come out the other side ok, as I'm sure you will, you can rest assured that you will be able to cope with anything else the job throws at you!
Quote from: Simon Dunn on March 12, 2023, 07:33:24 PMGenerally Unite are the Union that have a recognition agreement across all our depots. There are some differences in the North West with Engineers/ Office staff/ having a different Union in place.
I believe this is the same Union as National Express. We have elected reps at all the Midlands depots and at present, all but one posts are empty.
I would like to think, as the West Midlands is the original home to our business we are close to our people.
Some of the reasons listed in this thread for being in a Union are statutory requirement. So either way, they will receive this benefit.
Union representation/ recognition is a fact of life for large bus garages.
One question.
Are any double deckers coming in temporaily from elsewhere, to increase capacity on your own services?
Quote from: Westy on March 12, 2023, 09:08:50 PMOne question.
Are any double deckers coming in temporaily from elsewhere, to increase capacity on your own services?
We are not moving fleet around. We are looking to deploy more of the vehicles we have within Redditch to operate the 50. We have recently acquired 6 x double deckers for the Midlands and depending upon how long the Industrial action continues, then they could potentially pop up on other routes.
Here's a question.
Would you say the general public is now aware of the strike?
After 2 weeks off, I went back to work & I innocently asked management whether they were aware of the strike.
'Nope' was the answer & they had to Google about it.
Didn't read a paper, didn't see anything on telly.
Mentioned it to one of the warehouse guys.
He was aware of the strike, but not the actual start date or the minuta data, such as other operators were available.
Luckily I'd mocked up a notice, similar to Nx's own on bus notices, about it, for the company noticeboard!
Anyone else have the same issue?
I suppose management think the majority of the staff either drive, walk or even have taxis anyway!
Quote from: Westy on March 13, 2023, 09:43:09 AMHere's a question.
Would you say the general public is now aware of the strike?
After 2 weeks off, I went back to work & I innocently asked management whether they were aware of the strike.
'Nope' was the answer & they had to Google about it.
Didn't read a paper, didn't see anything on telly.
Mentioned it to one of the warehouse guys.
He was aware of the strike, but not the actual start date or the minuta data, such as other operators were available.
Luckily I'd mocked up a notice, similar to Nx's own on bus notices, about it, for the company noticeboard!
Anyone else have the same issue?
I suppose management think the majority of the staff either drive, walk or even have taxis anyway!
Its been really badly planned by both sides imo
By rights you'd expect notices on all the bus shelters in Walsall town about the strike action and the timetables on the 51 bus stop and 529 bus stop to give people warning about the strike but I haven't seen any yet.
Quote from: PB50 on March 13, 2023, 10:12:14 AMBy rights you'd expect notices on all the bus shelters in Walsall town about the strike action and the timetables on the 51 bus stop and 529 bus stop to give people warning about the strike but I haven't seen any yet.
This is TfWM you're talking about, I still don't think they've completed changing all the bus stop information from the 3rd of January changes which was quoted as would be fully complete by the end of Feb.
I've spoken to a number of people over the last few days who were either unaware of the strike or believed it was just for one day. It needs more publicity on all media platforms.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 13, 2023, 12:04:42 PMI've spoken to a number of people over the last few days who were either unaware of the strike or believed it was just for one day. It needs more publicity on all media platforms.
In coventry nx staff normally put posters up about charges but nothing seems to have happened and with under 72 hours left it seems there hopeimg something charges
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 13, 2023, 12:10:48 PMIn coventry nx staff normally put posters up about charges but nothing seems to have happened and with under 72 hours left it seems there hopeimg something charges
To be honest, i'm not sure how many bus stops NX serve around the WM, maybe 1000s perhaps.
To put posters up at all those stops probably takes time to do.
Though i'd imagine where possible the RTI screens will be updated to show a warning message like the ones in Birmingham City Centre were doing with the snow last Thursday? As thats probably easier to do.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/bus-strikes-full-list-dates-26456550?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target
Quote from: j789 on March 12, 2023, 08:38:18 PMIt's a great job 99% of the time, just don't let the 1% wear you down. As for the pickets, the union reps I have worked with have all had a decent amount of common sense and I'm sure your garage rep will be the same. There is no way that them or any of the other drivers would see a new starter like yourself, in this situation, in a bad light.
Just do your thing and focus on building up your in service confidence. You're certainly going to be thrown in the deep end as will be likely very busy with the minimal service operated, but if you come out the other side ok, as I'm sure you will, you can rest assured that you will be able to cope with anything else the job throws at you!
Amen to that. And good luck
@dw1308.
I see reach media have posted this
A limited 'Hospital Route Network' will run from Thursday, March 16 to Sunday, March 19. Commuters will be able to take the 9, 17 and 20A services to and from University Hospital Coventry (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/all-about/university-hospital-coventry)
Do they know something nx dont 😂🤔
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 13, 2023, 01:24:01 PMI see reach media have posted this
A limited 'Hospital Route Network' will run from Thursday, March 16 to Sunday, March 19. Commuters will be able to take the 9, 17 and 20A services to and from University Hospital Coventry (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/all-about/university-hospital-coventry)
Do they know something nx dont 😂🤔
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
Coventry have announced last Friday the services they intend to run
Why can't they offer 15% meet half wY then all will be happy
We going On strike I've not seen anything about it wow glad I read westy and his sisters posts
Quote from: Solo1 on March 13, 2023, 02:56:53 PMWhy can't they offer 15% meet half wY then all will be happy
Pmsl 😂😂 30% where's that come from Walsall way 😂😂
Quote from: karl724223 on March 13, 2023, 04:35:27 PMWe going On strike I've not seen anything about it wow glad I read westy and his sisters posts
Are you training for a second career as a comedian?
You might get more money from that, than you would earn from Nx!
Quote from: Westy on March 13, 2023, 05:00:04 PMAre you training for a second career as a comedian?
You might get more money from that, than you would earn from Nx!
Doubt it very much how much I earn
You need to get with it
@karl724223 - perhaps watch bus times etc etc - at least you're keeping up with
@Westy and sister I'm pleased to see 😂👏
Quote from: Solo1 on March 13, 2023, 02:56:53 PMWhy can't they offer 15% meet half wY then all will be happy
I think the unions bosses are living in cuckoo land thinking 11.5% is a poor offer.
NX should offer incentives like a cost of living bonus x amount for staff and if staff have 25 days annual leave increase the amount of days annual leave so they have more days annual from 25 - 30 or 28 to 32.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 13, 2023, 05:20:56 PMI think the unions bosses are living in cuckoo land thinking 11.5% is a poor offer.
NX should offer incentives like a cost of living bonus x amount for staff and if staff have 25 days annual leave increase the amount of days annual leave so they have more days annual from 25 - 30 or 28 to 32.
I already have a lot more holidays than 32
Quote from: CL on March 13, 2023, 02:03:16 PMhttps://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/service-updates/strike-action-from-16th-march-2023
Coventry have announced last Friday the services they intend to run
Correct. The 9 and 17 will run hourly from around 7am to 7pm. The 2OA is more complex with services departing Coventry either at 08, 53 or 38 depending upon the hour in the day.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 13, 2023, 05:20:56 PMI think the unions bosses are living in cuckoo land thinking 11.5% is a poor offer.
NX should offer incentives like a cost of living bonus x amount for staff and if staff have 25 days annual leave increase the amount of days annual leave so they have more days annual from 25 - 30 or 28 to 32.
The minimum legal amount of holidays is 28 (20 + 8 bank holidays) so nobody gets 25 days holiday.
It's alright for office bods to say increase the number of days holiday, the work just gets done on other days. Extra days holidays cost a lot of money because a driver taking that days holiday means you have to pay someone else to do that days work. I'm sure most drivers would prefer the huge amount a days holiday would cost to be put into the pay rise.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 13, 2023, 05:40:48 PMCorrect. The 9 and 17 will run hourly from around 7am to 7pm. The 2OA is more complex with services departing Coventry either at 08, 53 or 38 depending upon the hour in the day.
The news said it was from the 16th till the 19th 🤔
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 13, 2023, 06:32:46 PMThe news said it was from the 16th till the 19th 🤔
Either someone knows more than anyone else, or its just more poor journalism.
As its a Reach publication, more likely the latter.
Quote from: Stu on March 13, 2023, 06:40:44 PMEither someone knows more than anyone else, or its just more poor journalism.
As its a Reach publication, more likely the latter.
How do you know strike is going to end on 19th it may end on same day as it starts
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 13, 2023, 06:45:05 PMHow do you know strike is going to end on 19th it may end on same day as it starts
I don't know when the strike is going to end, nobody does.
As pointed out by the Birmingham Mail:
How long will the industrial action last?There will be continuous strikes every day until an agreement is reached. That means there is currently no end date in sight.
I'm of the opinion that something will happen in the next couple of days and the strike will be called off at the last minute. Perhaps more hope or belief rather than anything else.
However it does seem to me that someone high-up in the union ranks is determined that the strike action goes ahead.
But give it a few days, and maybe when drivers realise they will be struggling even more to get by on their strike pay from the union (which I'm sure is less than they are currently being paid by their employer), many will just go back to work, and the strike will just fizzle out.
Quote from: Stu on March 13, 2023, 06:55:15 PMI don't know when the strike is going to end, nobody does.
As pointed out by the Birmingham Mail:
How long will the industrial action last?
There will be continuous strikes every day until an agreement is reached. That means there is currently no end date in sight.
I'm of the opinion that something will happen in the next couple of days and the strike will be called off at the last minute. Perhaps more hope or belief rather than anything else.
However it does seem to me that someone high-up in the union ranks is determined that the strike action goes ahead.
But give it a few days, and maybe when drivers realise they will be struggling even more to get by on their strike pay from the union (which I'm sure is less than they are currently being paid by their employer), many will just go back to work, and the strike will just fizzle out.
I can see it being a repeat of the bin stikes of coventry last year :(
I believe strike pay os about 60-80£ a day
The strike is until an agreement is made. What journalists are saying about 16th - 19th is untrue
The strike is suspended after an improved pay offer:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike-suspended-after-improved-pay-offer/
Quote from: winston on March 13, 2023, 07:36:46 PMThe strike is suspended after an improved pay offer:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike-suspended-after-improved-pay-offer/
So if at 0001 on the 20th they say no when will the stikes start
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 13, 2023, 07:43:35 PMSo if at 0001 on the 20th they say no when will the stikes start
I think you need to re read the article
No strike Thursday they have suspended it
What does an 'all out' indefinite strike mean? Does that mean that the limited hospital services won't run either on 20th if no agreement is met?
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 13, 2023, 08:06:47 PMWhat does an 'all out' indefinite strike mean? Does that mean that the limited hospital services won't run either on 20th if no agreement is met?
Limited hospital network was probably going to be ran by the small number of drivers not striking and not in the union.
And that will probably run on the 20th if it still goes ahead.
Quote from: 2206 on March 13, 2023, 08:08:30 PMLimited hospital network was probably going to be ran by the small number of drivers not striking and not in the union.
And that will probably run on the 20th if it still goes ahead.
No strike anymore
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 13, 2023, 08:09:37 PMNo strike anymore
There may be on the 20th if the offer is rejected.
Quote from: 2206 on March 13, 2023, 08:11:09 PMThere may be on the 20th if the offer is rejected.
The thing is how and when will the public be informed?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 13, 2023, 08:13:57 PMThe thing is how and when will the public be informed?
Probably will be another article at some point in the next few days.
Quote from: winston on March 13, 2023, 07:36:46 PMThe strike is suspended after an improved pay offer:
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike-suspended-after-improved-pay-offer/
Great news, but I presume this 'improved' offer is the same one that Unite didn't put forward to their members.
The offer will hopefully be accepted and the strike action will be called off.
While Unite didn't get their 'all-out continuous' strike action they wanted, they'll still be able to paint themselves in a 'good light' in the media.
"It was us that done it!" and all that.
Quote from: Stu on March 13, 2023, 08:34:07 PMGreat news, but I presume this 'improved' offer is the same one that Unite didn't put forward to their members.
The offer will hopefully be accepted and the strike action will be called off.
While Unite didn't get their 'all-out continuous' strike action they wanted, they'll still be able to paint themselves in a 'good light' in the media.
"It was us that done it!" and all that.
To be fair if this is the solution to an agreement then so be it. If anything here, no one loses face. The drivers got an improved deal, the unions will say from threatening strikes so they like good and NX haven't had meet the full (rather ridiculous if the rumours were true) demands of the union. It's probably the best situation for all concerned and hopefully a deal is struck soon.
Now hopefully this news will be carried by the press asap to make people aware they can travel on Thursday.
Quote from: j789 on March 13, 2023, 08:50:22 PMTo be fair if this is the solution to an agreement then so be it. If anything here, no one loses face. The drivers got an improved deal, the unions will say from threatening strikes so they like good and NX haven't had meet the full (rather ridiculous if the rumours were true) demands of the union. It's probably the best situation for all concerned and hopefully a deal is struck soon.
Now hopefully this news will be carried by the press asap to make people aware they can travel on Thursday.
If there is no new offer and this actually an old offer which the drivers hadn't previously had the opportunity to vote on then its very embarrasing for the union !
Quote from: Stu on March 13, 2023, 08:34:07 PMGreat news, but I presume this 'improved' offer is the same one that Unite didn't put forward to their members.
The offer will hopefully be accepted and the strike action will be called off.
While Unite didn't get their 'all-out continuous' strike action they wanted, they'll still be able to paint themselves in a 'good light' in the media.
"It was us that done it!" and all that.
I'm not sure if it's the last offer now being put to the vote or whether it is actually an entirely new offer.
I hear it's a new offer with the first year being 14.3%
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 13, 2023, 07:43:35 PMSo if at 0001 on the 20th they say no when will the stikes start
From what Unite implies, if the increase is rejected, then the strike will start at midnight on Monday morning.
I bet the NXWM rota planners are hastily rewriting the rewritten rotas
The BBC have wrong headline https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-64945474
It's not until the third paragraph that it's clear.
Quote from: the trainbasher on March 13, 2023, 11:05:54 PMI bet the NXWM rota planners are hastily rewriting the rewritten rotas
No, everything as normal
Every body now happy they can watch veg web all day now claiming they've seen buses running in service
6104 the latest victim
Ps Monday 👍
The mayor as woken up and made a comment on his socials about the strike been suspended.
If our mayor really cared he should help facilitate talks as a businessman/politician to help resolve the issue. Come election day he might be shown the door. He needs to work for his votes and helping get strike resolved might buy him seats, there again the tram farce might be against him.
Do you think the drivers/maintenance will accept or reject the deal
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 14, 2023, 12:26:18 PMDo you think the drivers/maintenance will accept or reject the deal
Depends upon what conditions are attached to the offer and how militant the staff feel.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 14, 2023, 12:26:18 PMDo you think the drivers/maintenance will accept or reject the deal
I suspect it could get rejected, it seems like the offer has just been re-packaged I.e. higher increase in year 1 etc
Quote from: winston on March 14, 2023, 01:58:54 PMI suspect it could get rejected, it seems like the offer has just been re-packaged I.e. higher increase in year 1 etc
From what I've just heard the majority of Walsall drivers are rejecting it. It's not what they asked for so National Express need to change the offer else they will be striking come Monday.
Quote from: PB50 on March 14, 2023, 03:09:59 PMFrom what I've just heard the majority of Walsall drivers are rejecting it. It's not what they asked for so National Express need to change the offer else they will be striking come Monday.
Wonder what the other drivers think about it
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 14, 2023, 03:12:53 PMWonder what the other drivers think about it
One driver I spoke to yesterday in Wolverhampton said it wasn't just the pay but the management going back on terms and conditions agreed previously.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 14, 2023, 03:12:53 PMWonder what the other drivers think about it
Haven't heard any mention at work in the Coventry garage but who knows. You'll find out Friday when the ballot is announced
The new offer is a 3 year deal which is a NO NO given recent events, Members of UNITE want a 1 year deal back dated to pay anniversary jan 1st, The overtime rate currently in operation which started late 2021 when driver shortage started to bite, this time and quarter can be withdrawn at any time.
The new TERMS AND CONDITIONS are a joke to us older drivers.
Quote from: 2900 on March 14, 2023, 09:20:49 PMThe new offer is a 3 year deal which is a NO NO given recent events, Members of UNITE want a 1 year deal back dated to pay anniversary jan 1st, The overtime rate currently in operation which started late 2021 when driver shortage started to bite, this time and quarter can be withdrawn at any time.
The new TERMS AND CONDITIONS are a joke to us older drivers.
Sounds like its going to be a no from the drivers? :(
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 14, 2023, 09:22:35 PMSounds like its going to be a no from the drivers? :(
Turkeys voting for Christmas!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/strike-row-bus-drivers-had-26474896.amp
Quote from: PB2938 on March 15, 2023, 01:43:14 PMhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/strike-row-bus-drivers-had-26474896.amp
Surely some of the conditions could easily be resolved.with negotiations with TfWM
- TfWM needs to employ more officers these need to be deployed on routes that have high abuse, fare dodging and drug use
- Drug use comment if it's certain routes or times of the day, threaten to pull route at night if it's happening at night.
- Fare dodging up the penalty fare as a deterrent or consider bring back conductors to sell and issue tickets on buses or more inspectors.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 15, 2023, 03:56:04 PMSurely some of the conditions could easily be resolved.with negotiations with TfWM
- TfWM needs to employ more officers these need to be deployed on routes that have high abuse, fare dodging and drug use
- Drug use comment if it's certain routes or times of the day, threaten to pull route at night if it's happening at night.
- Fare dodging up the penalty fare as a deterrent or consider bring back conductors to sell and issue tickets on buses or more inspectors.
- Conductors are not going to make a comeback. Not unless you want to make every bus route in the West Midlands unviable. The majority of passengers pay their fares and are not using cash. NXWM could scrap cash as a method of payment or recruit more inspectors.
- Drugs - best way to deter that is more visible Police on the buses in hotspots and shoving the offenders into court for possession.
- Pulling the routes of a night where there is a problem on a short basis, but make it clear to the travelling public why you are doing so and the rote will only be reinstated if there is no trouble or anti-social behaviour..
Quote from: PB2938 on March 15, 2023, 01:43:14 PMhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/strike-row-bus-drivers-had-26474896.amp
I can't remember the last time I noted 'weed smoking' on a bus (and it did used to be quite prevalent).
UNITE have also showed their hand by going for an all out, continuous strike rather than other disruptive action like an overtime ban or work to rule. Drivers have got to weigh up the likelihood of getting an improved offer after UNITE revealed their tactics, Would they be going on strike for weeks losing wages, only to end up with the offer they were balloted on in the first place?
Quote from: Straightlines on March 15, 2023, 05:09:09 PMI can't remember the last time I noted 'weed smoking' on a bus (and it did used to be quite prevalent).
Faredogers, weed smokers, people begging on the bus, etc are definitely still a thing.
Plus vapes nowadays. The coloured vape sticks, the kids smoke on the lower deck as well.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 15, 2023, 05:28:56 PMUNITE have also showed their hand by going for an all out, continuous strike rather than other disruptive action like an overtime ban or work to rule. Drivers have got to weigh up the likelihood of getting an improved offer after UNITE revealed their tactics, Would they be going on strike for weeks losing wages, only to end up with the offer they were balloted on in the first place?
Agree what you are saying, this is what the RMT are doing selective dates for strikes it keeps passengers on your side.
Quote from: Straightlines on March 15, 2023, 05:09:09 PMI can't remember the last time I noted 'weed smoking' on a bus (and it did used to be quite prevalent).
I have heard drivers used to have to open the windows and drive round before going back to garage to get rid the smell of the whacky backey
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 15, 2023, 04:30:15 PM- Conductors are not going to make a comeback. Not unless you want to make every bus route in the West Midlands unviable. The majority of passengers pay their fares and are not using cash. NXWM could scrap cash as a method of payment or recruit more inspectors.
- Drugs - best way to deter that is more visible Police on the buses in hotspots and shoving the offenders into court for possession.
- Pulling the routes of a night where there is a problem on a short basis, but make it clear to the travelling public why you are doing so and the rote will only be reinstated if there is no trouble or anti-social behaviour..
Like they do with a certain route where idiot kids bud the bus I think it was the 29
Quote from: 2206 on March 15, 2023, 05:49:38 PMFaredogers, weed smokers, people begging on the bus, etc are definitely still a thing.
Plus vapes nowadays. The coloured vape sticks, the kids smoke on the lower deck as well.
I don't think Faredodgers and Weed Smokers is anywhere near as bad as it was say 10-15 years ago. It used to be rife. I can only speak from using buses in Birmingham regularly.
Quote from: Straightlines on March 15, 2023, 06:58:13 PMI don't think Faredodgers and Weed Smokers is anywhere near as bad as it was say 10-15 years ago. It used to be rife. I can only speak from using buses in Birmingham regularly.
My personal experience is that Weed and Fare dodgers are the worst they've ever been
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 15, 2023, 04:30:15 PM- Conductors are not going to make a comeback. Not unless you want to make every bus route in the West Midlands unviable. The majority of passengers pay their fares and are not using cash. NXWM could scrap cash as a method of payment or recruit more inspectors.
scrapping cash fares would not do anything to deter fare dodgers. They would still just walk on the bus without paying as they do now. The only way to really stop it would be by having some sort of contraption at the door entrance that would require a ticket or pass to be scanned before it allowed entry on to the bus.
However, the cost of implementing this on every bus would be prohibitive so is a non starter. Also, the number of fare dodgers compared to fare payers would be less than 5% of the total number. Therefore, the cost of lost revenue would still be far less than having to fund additional inspectors or other preventative measures to fully combat this.
It's a shame the police are so under equipped to deal with problem passengers and the courts so weak at actually sending a message to these scumbags by giving them a decent stretch at his majesties pleasure!
Quote from: Straightlines on March 15, 2023, 06:58:13 PMI don't think Faredodgers and Weed Smokers is anywhere near as bad as it was say 10-15 years ago. It used to be rife. I can only speak from using buses in Birmingham regularly.
Faredodgers are very common at the moment, although I haven't had many people smoke weed on the bus, I've had quite a few enter the bus with the strong smell of weed.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 15, 2023, 07:28:02 PMMy personal experience is that Weed and Fare dodgers are the worst they've ever been
Depends on route, but it is nowhere near as bad as it has been. The last two driving duties I did in December I only had one attempted fare dodge and no smokers. Trouble is when you are driving regularly you don't remember days like those you remember the days when someone has given you grief, and although that's not every day it can seem like ti.
Quote from: Tony on March 15, 2023, 07:37:27 PMDepends on route, but it is nowhere near as bad as it has been. The last two driving duties I did in December I only had one attempted fare dodge and no smokers. Trouble is when you are driving regularly you don't remember days like those you remember the days when someone has given you grief, and although that's not every day it can seem like ti.
All I remember is that in the 2000s you would regularly get smoking on buses (drugs/otherwise). Also surely the new ticket scanning system should have assisted fare dodging situation!
Quote from: Straightlines on March 15, 2023, 08:26:15 PMAll I remember is that in the 2000s you would regularly get smoking on buses (drugs/otherwise). Also surely the new ticket scanning system should have assisted fare dodging situation!
That I can personally vouch for. I had to open windows on more than one bus in different parts of Birmingham to let the smoke disperse.
Quote from: Straightlines on March 15, 2023, 08:26:15 PMAll I remember is that in the 2000s you would regularly get smoking on buses (drugs/otherwise). Also surely the new ticket scanning system should have assisted fare dodging situation!
I was on a 11A at Acocks Green Village a few weeks ago, the driver requested passenger to come back and scan a dodgy mobile ticket which they didn't scan on boarding. They then went upstairs and refused to come back down and scan it. For some people it still doesn't deter them.
Quote from: 2206 on March 15, 2023, 08:36:16 PMI was on a 11A a few weeks ago, the driver requested passenger to come back and scan dodgey mobile ticket which they didn't scan on boarding. They then went upstairs and refused to come back down and scan it.
The whole scan your qr code is rubbish and holds up buses as you have to play spin the phone to get it to scan
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 15, 2023, 08:39:33 PMThe whole scan your qr code is rubbish and holds up buses as you have to play spin the phone to get it to scan
The whole 'scan your QR code' has reduced fraudulent use of copied M-tickets down to virtually zero
I've seen a website that generates a fake NX day ticket. Has anybody come across this and are you no longer able to get away with these?
Quote from: MW on March 15, 2023, 08:48:59 PMI've seen a website that generates a fake NX day ticket. Has anybody come across this and are you no longer able to get away with these?
No. The barcode constantly changes, and the scanner can identify these fakes
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 15, 2023, 08:39:33 PMThe whole scan your qr code is rubbish and holds up buses as you have to play spin the phone to get it to scan
I don't use it myself, but the problem appears to be that some people don't understand how QR code scanners work, and that you do need to position your device in a way that the scanner can 'see' the code displayed.
The theory behind the system is good though, as it prevents people from just showing a screenshot of an M-ticket to the driver, as they could do previously.
Latest posts on here suggests UNITE have advised their members to accept the pay offer in the ballot...https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/page-2 (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/page-2)
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 15, 2023, 10:53:22 PMLatest posts on here suggests UNITE have advised their members to accept the pay offer in the ballot...https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/page-2 (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-express-west-midlands-bus-strike.244225/page-2)
I believe that is not the case as it stands
Quote from: MW on March 15, 2023, 08:48:59 PMI've seen a website that generates a fake NX day ticket. Has anybody come across this and are you no longer able to get away with these?
I have seen the ones selling fake qualifications and reported into my line manager,. So I would report to TfWM, Diamond and NX as if theft and they should be able to do something.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 15, 2023, 04:30:15 PM- Conductors are not going to make a comeback. Not unless you want to make every bus route in the West Midlands unviable. The majority of passengers pay their fares and are not using cash. NXWM could scrap cash as a method of payment or recruit more inspectors.
- Drugs - best way to deter that is more visible Police on the buses in hotspots and shoving the offenders into court for possession.
- Pulling the routes of a night where there is a problem on a short basis, but make it clear to the travelling public why you are doing so and the rote will only be reinstated if there is no trouble or anti-social behaviour..
Fair point on the conductor comment, agree could do with more inspectors these could be placed on bus stations such as Dudley, Bilston ect.
Abuse point , passengers are angry at the service level as buses not turning up and moaning about long waits. (The other day on a partnership route a 40 passengers waiting 40+ minutes) more PA announcements are needed at stations apologizing for delays. We know NX as a 10 plan to try and resolve it. The driver is the face of the company we know the delays are not directly his/her fault if there is a lengthy delay get drivers to say for the delay to your journey as it could defuse some of the anger.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 16, 2023, 06:42:55 AMAbuse point , passengers are angry at the service level as buses not turning up and moaning about long waits. (The other day on a partnership route a 40 passengers waiting 40+ minutes)
We know NX as a 10 plan to try and resolve it. The driver is the face of the company we know the delays are not directly his/her fault if there is a lengthy delay get drivers to say for the delay to your journey as it could defuse some of the anger.
You brought this up before.
https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=6191.msg299881#msg299881
There's just no need at all for this in the first place. Imagine if everyone started standing at the front moaning or "being angry". By doing this your stopping other passengers being able to get on and holding the bus up for longer making it later and the waits longer to.
As if being angry is going to make your wait shorter.
Well it was kind of inevitably....
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
Quote from: hlliwmai on March 16, 2023, 01:35:09 PMWell it was kind of inevitably....
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
So no buses 🤬
Why didn't they allow it to be voted on & how long before they can vote on the deal
Seems a good pay offer if it's what been quoted at 14% for this year and lower offers for the following two years.
Quote from: hlliwmai on March 16, 2023, 01:35:09 PMWell it was kind of inevitably....
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
Hope them and the members realise the long lasting effect this will have on their industry (and subsequently, their incomes!)
Quote from: Straightlines on March 16, 2023, 04:29:41 PMHope them and the members realise the long lasting effect this will have on their industry (and subsequently, their incomes!)
Too many don't.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 16, 2023, 03:32:41 PMSeems a good pay offer if it's what been quoted at 14% for this year and lower offers for the following two years.
It's not 14%, that's the total award for last year as well. However another issue is that terms and conditions previously agreed have been withdrawn by National Express management. As for the vote, it would seem that the ballot would not be permitted to be organised by Unite but they would still be expected to support it.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 16, 2023, 04:50:05 PMIt's not 14%, that's the total award for last year as well. However another issue is that terms and conditions previously agreed have been withdrawn by National Express management. As for the vote, it would seem that the ballot would not be permitted to be organised by Unite but they would still be expected to support it.
The offer is 14.3% for this year on top of rise in November, not including it
Quote from: Tony on March 16, 2023, 04:58:24 PMThe offer is 14.3% for this year on top of rise in November, not including it
That's not what one of the drivers told me. However I accept you may well be right.
Reading the UNITE statement, it sounds like they wanted to do a show of hands in a meeting, rather than a secret vote. Surely it is not beyond their competence to organise a 'phone or online poll, using their membership database, to determine if they are for or against the offer?
Why are they going around as if it is 1973 not 2023?
New one year deal now been offered 14.3% plus some other things
Voting Friday and Saturday results Saturday if no vote strike on Monday
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 16, 2023, 05:48:23 PMReading the UNITE statement, it sounds like they wanted to do a show of hands in a meeting, rather than a secret vote. Surely it is not beyond their competence to organise a 'phone or online poll, using their membership database, to determine if they are for or against the offer?
Why are they going around as if it is 1973 not 2023?
I have been a member of Unite and previously the TGWU for 40 years, never before have I seen such chaos where reps are slagging each other off. Misinformation being spread such as the 14% including the November rise. Different garages wanting their rep out and a vote to work while others are staunch strike.
Quote from: Tony on March 16, 2023, 05:54:52 PMI have been a member of Unite and previously the TGWU for 40 years, never before have I seen such chaos where reps are slagging each other off. Misinformation being spread such as the 14% including the November rise. Different garages wanting their rep out and a vote to work while others are staunch strike.
33 years me and totally agree very poorly handled
Quote from: karl724223 on March 16, 2023, 05:54:32 PMNew one year deal now been offered 14.3% plus some other things
Voting Friday and Saturday results Saturday if no vote strike on Monday
Except Unite cannot even get that correct. The say voting opens at 4am this morning
QuoteHope them and the members realise the long lasting effect this will have on their industry (and subsequently, their incomes!)
It's almost as if service provision, & staff recompense / morale, is at an all time high before there's been a single minute of strike action... Seriously, we've played by their rules for too long, yet using public transport gets worse by the day.
Support & solidarity to the staff who are legally (for the time being, until the nazis ban that as well) taking action in the best interests of EVERYONE involved.
unite sent email amending the time and date cock up. I dont know why they even talking about the november "rise" as it was to cover the shortened average time so drivers didnt loose out. It was promised that it wasnt part of the january talks. However this is a big mess, and it needs resolving quickly. Wonder why theres a shortage of drivers and high turnoverof staff in this industry? heres a good reason
Quote from: Isle of Stroma on March 16, 2023, 06:53:06 PMIt's almost as if service provision, & staff recompense / morale, is at an all time high before there's been a single minute of strike action... Seriously, we've played by their rules for too long, yet using public transport gets worse by the day.
Support & solidarity to the staff who are legally (for the time being, until the nazis ban that as well) taking action in the best interests of EVERYONE involved.
Are they taking action in the best interests of everyone?. As Simon has stated at Rotala not one route is currently in profit without financial support. It is similar at NX with very few routes that could stand up on their own. Drive more passengers away and more routes will go out to tender to the lowest bidder. Lowest bidder normally means the one with the lowest operating costs, so drivers turning down the current £16+ offer could easily find themselves on a much lower rate.
Quote from: Isle of Stroma on March 16, 2023, 06:53:06 PMyet using public transport gets worse by the day
You've got TfWM to thank for that one!
Most passengers will have to walk if the strike goes ahead as some Diamond routes finish early leaving passengers isolated who are trying to get to and from work.
30 starts 7:55 from West Brom with last bus departing 16:55
41 starts 6:55 from West Brom with last bus departing 17:55
Then if passengers do get a bus at a bus station those Diamonds that are running will possible run past stops leaving passengers at bus stops due to their buses been packed to the rafters.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 16, 2023, 07:07:11 PMMost passengers will have to walk if the strike goes ahead as some Diamond routes finish early leaving passengers isolated who are try to get to and from work.
30 starts 7:55 from West Brom with last bus departing 16:55
41 starts 6:55 from West Brom with last bus departing 17:55
Then if passengers do get a bus at a bus station those Diamonds that are running will possible run past stops leaving passengers at bus stops due to their buses been packed to the rafters.
To be fair, quite a few 'independent ' routes don't run all day, certainly not useful for commuting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only route running after 8pm in Walsall, will be Diamond's 31 & 32, albeit at irregular times?
Quote from: Westy on March 16, 2023, 07:21:18 PMTo be fair, quite a few 'independent ' routes don't run all day, certainly not useful for commuting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only route running after 8pm in Walsall, will be Diamond's 31 & 32, albeit at irregular times?
Note sure about Walsall but I think 45 should be running till late.
West Bromwich will be 16/42/40. With one bus on the 40 meaning a hourly service
QuoteAre they taking action in the best interests of everyone?. As Simon has stated at Rotala not one route is currently in profit without financial support. It is similar at NX with very few routes that could stand up on their own. Drive more passengers away and more routes will go out to tender to the lowest bidder. Lowest bidder normally means the one with the lowest operating costs, so drivers turning down the current £16+ offer could easily find themselves on a much lower rate.
Fresh in my thoughts are the routes I use most (mainly for work), & have mental scars from: the 97, x1 & Outer Circle (ironically, the A9 is currently the most reliable, despite being the least financially tenable?). But that's as a passenger. Service provision & staff conditions are abysmal at present, regardless of company or individual route profitability.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 16, 2023, 07:32:40 PMNote sure about Walsall but I think 45 should be running till late.
West Bromwich will be 16/42/40. With one bus on the 40 meaning a hourly service
You are correct, the 45 finishes around 1130pm.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 16, 2023, 07:07:11 PMMost passengers will have to walk if the strike goes ahead as some Diamond routes finish early leaving passengers isolated who are trying to get to and from work.
30 starts 7:55 from West Brom with last bus departing 16:55
41 starts 6:55 from West Brom with last bus departing 17:55
Then if passengers do get a bus at a bus station those Diamonds that are running will possible run past stops leaving passengers at bus stops due to their buses been packed to the rafters.
Well yes, strikes disrupt. Otherwise there's no point in a strike.
One group have now agreed a deal
"I'm pleased to tell you that our engineers have voted to accept the pay offer.
The engineering deal is a 14.3% increase in 2023 (and for engineers only, 3.5% in year two).
This is fantastic news. Thank you to everyone who has been involved in this process - I know it's been challenging at times but it's great to see that we've now resolved this issue."
I thought voting was Friday & Saturday with results announced Saturday afternoon?
Quote from: Steveminor on March 17, 2023, 08:12:21 PMI thought voting was Friday & Saturday with results announced Saturday afternoon?
That's the drivers
Quote from: Tony on March 17, 2023, 08:14:54 PMThat's the drivers
Hopefully it's a good outcome for the driver's vote.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 17, 2023, 08:20:20 PMHopefully it's a good outcome for the driver's vote.
Hopefully strike
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 17, 2023, 08:51:45 PMHopefully strike
Why? so you can ask why the other 100 buses in West Bromwich garage aren't on the road and when they will be out?
I can understand anybody backing better pay and conditions, but why would a non-employee hope for a strike?
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
So this is not true?
Thats just typical of Mr Williams not using his brain as always. Dont think of the thousands of people that wont be able to get to work or hospital as long as you can ride buses day and night to Dudley and back as you seem to post on FB 7 days a week. Do us all a favour and wake up into the real world.
From what I saw at my garage we were allowed to vote and were balloted in the manner the union were pushing for. I'm hopeful that a happy ground can be found for us drivers but also for the travelling public because I don't think it's fair for thousands of peoples lives to be almost brought to a halt because they rely on the use of busses to carry out what they need to do day to day
Quote from: dw1308 on March 18, 2023, 01:15:40 AMFrom what I saw at my garage we were allowed to vote and were balloted in the manner the union were pushing for. I'm hopeful that a happy ground can be found for us drivers but also for the travelling public because I don't think it's fair for thousands of peoples lives to be almost brought to a halt because they rely on the use of busses to carry out what they need to do day to day
Nice comment hopefully drivers see common ground and what effect it has on passengers using services.
Do we know roughly when we get the results of the ballot and when the union will make a statement?
Quote from: WalsallBuses2007 on March 18, 2023, 11:40:32 AMDo we know roughly when we get the results of the ballot and when the union will make a statement?
Not sure but the union has saidnthe stikes back on
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 18, 2023, 11:42:02 AMNot sure but the union has saidnthe stikes back on
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
That statement came out before the even voted.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 18, 2023, 11:42:02 AMNot sure but the union has saidnthe stikes back on
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midlands-bus-strike-back-on-over-national-express-union-busting/
That article was from previous voting. Think we are supposed to find out this afternoon sometime.
Given that the union aren't recommending the deal, I'll be surprised if the drivers vote for it.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 18, 2023, 01:01:29 PMGiven that the union aren't recommending the deal, I'll be surprised if the drivers vote for it.
Seems like a large number have rejected it anyway.
29.3% for the offer
70.7% have rejected it
Strikes begin Monday
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/west-midland-s-bus-strike-to-go-ahead-monday-after-latest-offer-rejected/
Why has it been rejected when engineering team have excepted it
Quote from: Solo1 on March 18, 2023, 01:50:12 PMWhy has it been rejected when engineering team have excepted it
Engineers were offered a different offer
Quote from: Dennis Dart Plaxton Pointer on March 18, 2023, 01:38:21 PM29.3% for the offer
70.7% have rejected it
Strikes begin Monday
It was obvious 😒
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 18, 2023, 01:56:48 PMIt was obvious 😒
Hopefully it will only be double deckers out on the limited network on Monday and no omnilinks so they can run to maximum capacity.
Even if that means putting the 28 on diversion via stockland green as there's a low bridge on Summer Road.
What do the drivers what then
The offer has been rejected by 70.7%
Strike action commences Monday morning
Oh no veg web day watching what buses are running
Quote from: karl724223 on March 18, 2023, 02:14:22 PMOh no veg web day watching what buses are running
Could be veg month 🤣
Quote from: 2206 on March 18, 2023, 01:57:49 PMHopefully it will only be double deckers out on the limited network on Monday and no omnilinks so they can run to maximum capacity.
Even if that means putting the 28 on diversion via stockland green as there's a low bridge on Summer Road.
Presumably Platinums then, for fuel economy, apart from the 28 !
No 'specialist ' vehicles out, like electrics & hydrogens!
Quote from: Westy on March 18, 2023, 02:36:10 PMPresumably Platinums then, for fuel economy, apart from the 28 !
No 'specialist ' vehicles out, like electrics & hydrogens!
Electric are 'specialist' and what makes you think none will be out?
Quote from: Tony on March 18, 2023, 02:44:38 PMElectric are 'specialist' and what makes you think none will be out?
Depends whether the non striking drivers are type trained I guess, but you're the expert obviously!
Quote from: Westy on March 18, 2023, 02:46:15 PMDepends whether the non striking drivers are type trained I guess, but you're the expert obviously!
I think with 80 vehicles in service at Coventry garage every one is trained
Quote from: Steveminor on March 18, 2023, 02:03:58 PMThe offer has been rejected by 70.7%
Strike action commences Monday morning
Diamond are going be very busy whilst NX drivers are only earning their £75/day strike pay..
Quote from: Tony on March 18, 2023, 02:47:10 PMI think with 80 vehicles in service at Coventry garage every one is trained
Ok fair enough with Coventry, but I'd be surprised if Walsall's Hydros are out?
Quote from: Westy on March 18, 2023, 02:52:28 PMOk fair enough with Coventry, but I'd be surprised if Walsall's Hydros are out?
The 51 (their normal hunting ground) is running so as stated depends on if those who are type trained are working or nit.
Tony Hunter could maybe shed some light on this
Quote from: Steveminor on March 18, 2023, 02:56:22 PMThe 51 (their normal hunting ground) is running so as stated depends on if those who are type trained are working or nit.
Tony Hunter could maybe shed some light on this
I suspect they won't as fuelling them takes 90minutes out of a driving duty
The 29.3% of drivers who accepted this deal plus any non- union drivers would be able to run a fairly decent chunk of service coverage if they turn up for work - perhaps not unrealistic to hope now a few more routes will be able to be operated if more drivers are willing to work.
Quote from: Westy on March 18, 2023, 02:46:15 PMDepends whether the non striking drivers are type trained I guess, but you're the expert obviously!
Quote from: Tony on March 18, 2023, 02:47:10 PMI think with 80 vehicles in service at Coventry garage every one is trained
I'd also hazard a guess that most YW drivers are also trained. Plenty of other buses for those that aren't!
How much r drivers losing when they strike
Quote from: Solo1 on March 18, 2023, 03:46:34 PMHow much r drivers losing when they strike
In hindsight it will be a day's pay if your supposed to be rostered for duty but if it's your day off you shouldn't lose anything
Quote from: j789 on March 18, 2023, 03:03:31 PMThe 29.3% of drivers who accepted this deal plus any non- union drivers would be able to run a fairly decent chunk of service coverage if they turn up for work - perhaps not unrealistic to hope now a few more routes will be able to be operated if more drivers are willing to work.
I would expect they would still support their union and as such not work
Quote from: j789 on March 18, 2023, 03:03:31 PMThe 29.3% of drivers who accepted this deal plus any non- union drivers would be able to run a fairly decent chunk of service coverage if they turn up for work - perhaps not unrealistic to hope now a few more routes will be able to be operated if more drivers are willing to work.
I thought the idea was everyone agrees with the collective decision and all union members should strike? The 29.3% had a chance to put their point of view but now honour the majority?
Quote from: winston on March 18, 2023, 02:50:48 PMDiamond are going be very busy whilst NX drivers are only earning their £75/day strike pay..
Is the £75 per day subject to income tax and national insurance or not? If not taxable, equivalent to £110.29 a day (no pension of course) which for a 7hr 30 min shift is £14.71 before tax. Isn't that more than some drivers are on?
What are the rules about crossing the picket line? Can none union members refuse to cross it or would they be in trouble if they did? If the management could, would they enforce disciplinary action given they are so short of drivers anyway?
Quote from: Dennis Dart Plaxton Pointer on March 18, 2023, 01:38:21 PM29.3% for the offer
70.7% have rejected it
Strikes begin Monday
20% yes
48% rejected it
32% didn't bother voting
Wonder is the 32% that didn't vote would of voted for the deal as 14.3 is a great deal just hope they sort it out in a few days
I wonder if NX will comeback with an improvement in the next few days
Quote from: BN on March 18, 2023, 04:14:18 PM20% yes
48% rejected it
32% didn't bother voting
I'm sure if enough drivers felt they did not have a realistic chance to vote by the union, it may be possible to take legal action to delay the strike until all members have been able to have their vote. I am sure this happened last year with the Royal Mail strikes. Also, aren't their thresholds for total % of members having to vote for action that with only 48% of union members voting for may not have been reached?
As I suggested in a previous post, if the 29% against the strike plus this 32% (of members) who didn't feel like voting turn up for work on Monday, that will potentially be half the work force available to drive. More routes could then be run on a low lee frequency basis. I think the union are on increasingly dodgy ground now too with your stated statistics, I think it is in their interest to conclude a deal sooner than later if less than half their members are voting for what they want.
Quote from: Steveminor on March 18, 2023, 04:03:02 PMI would expect they would still support their union and as such not work
True but this isn't the 1980s anymore and if those members don't think it's worth their hassle fighting for more, then they will likely work as normal. Why would you miss out on wages, pension, etc for something you don't agree with?
Quote from: j789 on March 18, 2023, 06:19:29 PMI'm sure if enough drivers felt they did not have a realistic chance to vote by the union, it may be possible to take legal action to delay the strike until all members have been able to have their vote. I am sure this happened last year with the Royal Mail strikes. Also, aren't their thresholds for total % of members having to vote for action that with only 48% of union members voting for may not have been reached?
As I suggested in a previous post, if the 29% against the strike plus this 32% (of members) who didn't feel like voting turn up for work on Monday, that will potentially be half the work force available to drive. More routes could then be run on a low lee frequency basis. I think the union are on increasingly dodgy ground now too with your stated statistics, I think it is in their interest to conclude a deal sooner than later if less than half their members are voting for what they want.
The whole way the Union have handled this have been poor. The Union appointed a negotiator who asked NX for above inflation rise and a 3 year deal. NX offered that. The Union initially strongly recommended acceptance, so not sure what else management could do at that stage. Local reps then complained about the 3 year deal, so initially a two year deal, then a one year deal were offered.
Suddenly everybody experts on strike action
Quote from: karl724223 on March 18, 2023, 06:29:22 PMSuddenly everybody experts on strike action
Could you explain then from a NX drivers point of view just what the sticking points are in these negotiations? That has not been clear in any of these comments from NX drivers so far, it's all just the 'terms and conditions' are wrong. But what do you actually want compared with what has actually been offered? What are these 'no go' terms and conditions?
This is not meant to be antagonistic but it seems unclear actually what the main issue is here. Is it a higher % wage increase? Different shift timings or length? How far away is the current offer from what you want?
Quote from: j789 on March 18, 2023, 06:37:04 PMCould you explain then from a NX drivers point of view just what the sticking points are in these negotiations? That has not been clear in any of these comments from NX drivers so far, it's all just the 'terms and conditions' are wrong. But what do you actually want compared with what has actually been offered? What are these 'no go' terms and conditions?
This is not meant to be antagonistic but it seems unclear actually what the main issue is here. Is it a higher % wage increase? Different shift timings or length? How far away is the current offer from what you want?
NO
With coventry drives voted 85% for the deal would they be allowed to drive or would it go against union rules
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 18, 2023, 06:58:49 PMWith coventry drives voted 85% for the deal would they be allowed to drive or would it go against union rules
It is always up to the individual. If they are a union member it is up to them whether they choose to cross a picket line. If they are not a union member then they are in breach of contract not to book on, although it is very unlikely any action would be taken against them other than not being paid by either the company or the union.
In answer to a previous question Strike pay from the Union is non-taxable
"Not ideal" - but can afford to 'spend £14 a day' on taxis because 'solidarity'
https://twitter.com/samgricer1/status/1637163001089339397
Quote from: Stu on March 18, 2023, 07:24:15 PM"Not ideal" - but can afford to 'spend £14 a day' on taxis because 'solidarity'
https://twitter.com/samgricer1/status/1637163001089339397
Let's see how much his Uber costs next week
QuoteHopefully strike
Looks like you got your wish.
Quote from: Tony on March 18, 2023, 07:38:43 PMLet's see how much his Uber costs next week
Typical fare for private hire from Wednesbury to Brum is £20,. Black cab £42. But due to high demand can see firms put fares up.
Yes Mr Williams you got your wish strike is on and you better hope I don't see any posts on Facebook of you with your driver mates on the 87 because if I do you are genuinely taking a seat from someone that really needs it as buses will be busy as it is. Im sorry if this offends anyone by the way
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 18, 2023, 07:49:18 PMTypical fare for private hire from Wednesbury to Brum is £20,. Black cab £42. But due to high demand can see firms put fares up.
That's not the 'typical' fare, that's a two days in advance fare, if you know how Uber fares work you will know it depends on demand. The black cab fare won't change as that's fixed
The taxi companies were pissed off after they postponed the previous strike as they had a lot of bookings which were no longer needed
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 18, 2023, 08:49:57 PMThe taxi companies were pissed off after they postponed the previous strike as they had a lot of bookings which were no longer needed
As my sister uses a local company in Bloxwich, when the 9 fails to show of a late evening, I asked her to find out the fare from my house to Willenhall, as an option.
It costs the same as her trip to Wednesfield, but bookings were already full !
I see Andy Street has finally posted on Facebook about the bus strike taking place.
Quote from: PB50 on March 18, 2023, 09:43:52 PMI see Andy Street has finally posted on Facebook about the bus strike taking place.
Yep not happy at all about the strike, as urged both parties to get back around the table.
I cannot see NX budging on the offer at all as 14.3% that's been offered from a passenger prospective is a good offer.
The only people that will suffer will be the passengers as NX could be left with no choice to put up fares and inside of £2.40 for a single we could see single tickets reach £3.00
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 19, 2023, 08:57:10 AMYep not happy at all about the strike, as urged both parties to get back around the table.
I cannot see NX budging on the offer at all as 14.3% that's been offered from a passenger prospective is a good offer.
The only people that will suffer will be the passengers as NX could be left with no choice to put up fares and inside of £2.40 for a single we could see single tickets reach £3.00
Passengers aren't the only ones that will suffer. A prolonged strike will cause damage to NXWM's ongoing revenue base which will ultimately impact both staff and shareholders. Arriva Tamworth had a similar strike about 20 years ago and revenue never fully recovered
Would be nice to know why was a no 14.3% a good deal yet nurses 5% took that another firm offered 2%pay rise
Quote from: Tony on March 18, 2023, 06:25:39 PMThe whole way the Union have handled this have been poor. The Union appointed a negotiator who asked NX for above inflation rise and a 3 year deal. NX offered that. The Union initially strongly recommended acceptance, so not sure what else management could do at that stage. Local reps then complained about the 3 year deal, so initially a two year deal, then a one year deal were offered.
I heard this "negotiator" went in alone without local reps knowing and nobody wanted a 2 year deal let alone a 3
From what I understand, the drivers want their wage increases from £10.80* to £12.75* (which is the reality of what NX drivers are paid on top rate).
If it was presented as £10.80 and £12.75, I think the public would show more sympathy. All they see is the headline numbers of £16/£17, and percentage figures of 14% which makes it seem like an already high paying job.
*figures based on duty time of 10 hours with 7.5 hours pay.
So the negotiator should go back in with all the depot reps to sort this out
Quote from: MW on March 19, 2023, 10:08:25 AMFrom what I understand, the drivers want their wage increases from £10.80* to £12.75* (which is the reality of what NX drivers are paid on top rate).
If it was presented as £10.80 and £12.75, I think the public would show more sympathy. All they see is the headline numbers of £16/£17, and percentage figures of 14% which makes it seem like an already high paying job.
*figures based on duty time of 10 hours with 7.5 hours pay.
The £10.80 figure is what training drivers get, a full time qualified driver gets £11.80 and drivers that have 3+ years with the company get just over £14. I am personally disappointed with the way this has been handled as I just want to actually get to start doing the job.
Quote from: dw1308 on March 19, 2023, 11:45:39 AMThe £10.80 figure is what training drivers get, a full time qualified driver gets £11.80 and drivers that have 3+ years with the company get just over £14. I am personally disappointed with the way this has been handled as I just want to actually get to start doing the job.
You are wrong. What about the 2 hours or so that you're standing around in between driving?
Quote from: MW on March 19, 2023, 12:08:32 PMYou are wrong. What about the 2 hours or so that you're standing around in between driving?
I don't think I am wrong as I have been getting paid £10.90 per hour whilst doing my training with NX and I am now on £11.80 per hour as a newly qualified driver.
Quote from: dw1308 on March 19, 2023, 12:14:03 PMI don't think I am wrong as I have been getting paid £10.90 per hour whilst doing my training with NX and I am now on £11.80 per hour as a newly qualified driver.
As a newly qualified driver, are you paid from the time you start work to the time you finish work? If so, I stand corrected.
QuoteWould be nice to know why was a no 14.3% a good deal yet nurses 5% took that another firm offered 2%pay rise
Because its not all about the pay. Its the terms and conditions that drivers want improving
Quote from: John on March 19, 2023, 12:54:23 PMBecause its not all about the pay. Its the terms and conditions that drivers want improving
But the Union haven't been negotiating on conditions. The Union only went in to negotiate on a pay deal, and won a good deal which the drivers have rejected. The Union weren't asked to go in to negotiate on conditions.
What are the conditions that drivers want improving?
I am curious as to whether there are definitely enough drivers to cover the 'strike timetables', if you will, or whether that's conditional.
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 19, 2023, 01:15:26 PMI am curious as to whether there are definitely enough drivers to cover the 'strike timetables', if you will, or whether that's conditional.
Of course there's anough drivers
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 19, 2023, 01:16:36 PMOf course there's anough drivers
How do you know how many will turn up for work tomorrow?
Incidently I have been working at Coventry garage this morning. It does like like they may get a reasonable service on several other routes as well tomorrow
Quote from: Tony on March 19, 2023, 01:21:21 PMHow do you know how many will turn up for work tomorrow?
Incidently I have been working at Coventry garage this morning. It does like like they may get a reasonable service on several other routes as well tomorrow
Wonder what routes may get drivers
These are just my thoughts and observations so am not expecting it to be correct
I haven't worked at NX for well over a year now. I'm under the impression this deal was rejected as if it was accepted then it would means the terms and conditions would not be improved for the drivers. Proposals for improvements were supposed to be implemented back in January but have been delayed numerous times, which is why I think the drivers want to go on strike.
I didn't realise the unions were not negotiating for improved conditions, only for the pay side of things
Like othes have said these strikes will not do any good for the public/driver relationship as it is going to be a massive disruption to their everyday lives and I think will impact the already suffering public transport sector with falling passenger numbers. This in some part due to the driver shortages and missing services, which in turn is a vicious circle leading to less people using buses becuase they simply can not rely on them to get around
Personally I think on the surface of things the pay deal offered by NX seems decent but it would mean giving up an improvement on terms and conditions which is what the drivers don't want
A lot of people are just thinking the strikes are down to pay, and it doesn't help when the media only states what they want the public to hear to create a better news story, and friction between the public and staff. Bus driving is a thankless job and you are looked down upon by the general public and treated like you are something on the bottom of their shoe. One of the reasons why I had enough and left (amongst many others I know and some had been in the job 20+ years. I had done 8 years), one decision i don't look back on at all even now I only work part time working 27.5 hours a week before overtime and with overtime I pick up £40 less a week than with NX with no overtime, I feel I actually have a life outside of work, and not working all hours of the day burning myself out for no appreciation whatsoever. It just goes to show that money isn't everything. I found the pay to be decent while I was there, enough to live on comfortably. Granted this was before this cost of living crisis. But its not enough to be treated like dirt from all sides.
What people don't seem to realise just what driving a bus requires from you. The majority of the public just seem to think you are sitting down all day doing nothing and its a very easy job, this is what i gather from comments on facebook posts and news items. And people are then saying why should drivers get an increase for doing stuff all all day every day. I can tell them that its a very mentially draining job requiring 100% concentration all the time which I felt I was not giving the job towards the end. The final nail in the coffin for me anyway was COVID. Thats what I feel changed the publics attitude towards others (not bus drivers but everyone as a whole), and all respect and courtesy just seemed to vanish. And also just peoples selfishness to abide by the rules imposed by the government at the time regarding lockdowns, unessecarry travel and mask wearing, unregardless on what you may have thought of the rules
There is much more to these strikes than just a pay increase which is what most people don't seem to realise.
I am sorry for the long rant but want to get my understanding of these strikes across
Would also like to wish the drivers at NX the best of luck with these strikes and hope they get resolved asap
Quote from: John on March 19, 2023, 01:47:15 PMThese are just my thoughts and observations so am not expecting it to be correct
I haven't worked at NX for well over a year now. I'm under the impression this deal was rejected as if it was accepted then it would means the terms and conditions would not be improved for the drivers. Proposals for improvements were supposed to be implemented back in January but have been delayed numerous times, which is why I think the drivers want to go on strike.
I didn't realise the unions were not negotiating for improved conditions, only for the pay side of things
Like othes have said these strikes will not do any good for the public/driver relationship as it is going to be a massive disruption to their everyday lives and I think will impact the already suffering public transport sector with falling passenger numbers. This in some part due to the driver shortages and missing services, which in turn is a vicious circle leading to less people using buses becuase they simply can not rely on them to get around
Personally I think on the surface of things the pay deal offered by NX seems decent but it would mean giving up an improvement on terms and conditions which is what the drivers don't want
A lot of people are just thinking the strikes are down to pay, and it doesn't help when the media only states what they want the public to hear to create a better news story, and friction between the public and staff. Bus driving is a thankless job and you are looked down upon by the general public and treated like you are something on the bottom of their shoe. One of the reasons why I had enough and left (amongst many others I know and some had been in the job 20+ years. I had done 8 years), one decision i don't look back on at all even now I only work part time working 27.5 hours a week before overtime and with overtime I pick up £40 less a week than with NX with no overtime, I feel I actually have a life outside of work, and not working all hours of the day burning myself out for no appreciation whatsoever. It just goes to show that money isn't everything. I found the pay to be decent while I was there, enough to live on comfortably. Granted this was before this cost of living crisis. But its not enough to be treated like dirt from all sides.
What people don't seem to realise just what driving a bus requires from you. The majority of the public just seem to think you are sitting down all day doing nothing and its a very easy job, this is what i gather from comments on facebook posts and news items. And people are then saying why should drivers get an increase for doing stuff all all day every day. I can tell them that its a very mentially draining job requiring 100% concentration all the time which I felt I was not giving the job towards the end. The final nail in the coffin for me anyway was COVID. Thats what I feel changed the publics attitude towards others (not bus drivers but everyone as a whole), and all respect and courtesy just seemed to vanish. And also just peoples selfishness to abide by the rules imposed by the government at the time regarding lockdowns, unessecarry travel and mask wearing, unregardless on what you may have thought of the rules
There is much more to these strikes than just a pay increase which is what most people don't seem to realise.
I am sorry for the long rant but want to get my understanding of these strikes across
Would also like to wish the drivers at NX the best of luck with these strikes and hope they get resolved asap
A good point well made 👍.
@Solo1 it's not all about pay... It's terms and conditions. Some of the comments by some enthusiasts about the strikes show they don't know alot at all about Strikes. I'm sorry that your hobby of bus riding around the Midlands is being interrupted. Wish I could ride around the Midlands all day but I need a job to survive.
Here's a comment I saw on the NX Facebook page, which sums it up.
Imagine waking up at 0445 and then going to work for up to 12/13 hours a day, only getting paid for an average (usually around 7 hours).
You're in rush hour traffic so now you're 20+ mins late. You get abused by passengers who now blame you for being late and call you every name under the sun.
...You get cut up by a car so you sound your horn, then they proceed to get out of the car to call you a "fat f**k".
Later on in the day you get bricks thrown at you because you haven't let little timmy with a rough upbringing on with his fake pass. He want's you to know he's unhappy because you've said no (for the first time in his life he has been denied something)...
You've been cut up all day by van and car drivers who are too impatient to save 3 seconds of their life.
Now it's 1845 and you're done for the day. Emotionally damaged and drained, you head home, holding on to that slither of hope that tomorrow will be better... Your mental health decreasing day by day after the hundreds of passengers you've carried have abused and taken advantage of you.
After getting home at 1930 you have just 3 hours to relax before heading to bed and getting a whole 6 hours sleep (if you're lucky) before having to do it all over again.
Imagine doing this for a whole week, you've worked 65 hours over 5 days but you're only being paid for 38.
Now ask yourself...
Do you think its greedy to be paid WHAT YOU'RE WORTH?
Is it too much trouble to be paid for the hours you work?
Every job has its issues but you wouldn't believe the amount of issues the bus industry has until you work in it.
It wouldn't have had to come to strike action if NX weren't being so greedy with their profit margins. If drivers were offered a decent wage for the work they do, there wouldn't be a need to strike. Only through inconveniencing others, will action finally be taken.
Just my two cents.
Any views expressed here are my own. (And from experience) :angel:
Quote from: MW on March 19, 2023, 02:39:00 PMHere's a comment I saw on the NX Facebook page, which sums it up.
Imagine waking up at 0445 and then going to work for up to 12/13 hours a day, only getting paid for an average (usually around 7 hours).
You're in rush hour traffic so now you're 20+ mins late. You get abused by passengers who now blame you for being late and call you every name under the sun.
...You get cut up by a car so you sound your horn, then they proceed to get out of the car to call you a "fat f**k".
Later on in the day you get bricks thrown at you because you haven't let little timmy with a rough upbringing on with his fake pass. He want's you to know he's unhappy because you've said no (for the first time in his life he has been denied something)...
You've been cut up all day by van and car drivers who are too impatient to save 3 seconds of their life.
Now it's 1845 and you're done for the day. Emotionally damaged and drained, you head home, holding on to that slither of hope that tomorrow will be better... Your mental health decreasing day by day after the hundreds of passengers you've carried have abused and taken advantage of you.
After getting home at 1930 you have just 3 hours to relax before heading to bed and getting a whole 6 hours sleep (if you're lucky) before having to do it all over again.
Imagine doing this for a whole week, you've worked 65 hours over 5 days but you're only being paid for 38.
Now ask yourself...
Do you think its greedy to be paid WHAT YOU'RE WORTH?
Is it too much trouble to be paid for the hours you work?
Every job has its issues but you wouldn't believe the amount of issues the bus industry has until you work in it.
It wouldn't have had to come to strike action if NX weren't being so greedy with their profit margins. If drivers were offered a decent wage for the work they do, there wouldn't be a need to strike. Only through inconveniencing others, will action finally be taken.
Just my two cents.
Any views expressed here are my own. (And from experience) :angel:
The profit margins bit is what is wrong with that statement. West Midlands Travel Limited would be making large losses with the government funding due to finish in 3 months. There is no large profit margins. Yes ALSA appears to be doing well at the moment, but no-one in the UK is currently being greedy with their profit margins, and most bus companies will be lucky to survive until the end of 2024 without changes to funding. Perhaps Unite ought to buy WMT from NX and pay their members out of the revenue and see how long the company would last.
Quote from: Tony on March 19, 2023, 02:52:27 PMThe profit margins bit is what is wrong with that statement. West Midlands Travel Limited would be making large losses with the government funding due to finish in 3 months. There is no large profit margins. Yes ALSA appears to be doing well at the moment, but no-one in the UK is currently being greedy with their profit margins, and most bus companies will be lucky to survive until the end of 2024 without changes to funding.
Yeah, I agree. The profit side of things appears to be heavily distorted with lots of your drivers quoting circa £200million per annum, which of course isn't West Midlands Travel Ltd, and is the group in total.
I was more focussed on the point about 10+ hour days and 7.5 hours pay, and the consequences of that (work/life balance).
That example of working 13 hour days is an extreme and can't be the norm. When driving for various companies with First, only those drivers who did split shifts would work for that long over a day, it would be impossible to do otherwise.
The longest shift we could do was 10 hours paid in a day (+/- a few mins either side). Long shifts like that always had 2 breaks that were less than an 1 hour each. We weren't paid for the first 1hour 15 mins of the total break length but anything over that was paid. Therefore total shift length was about 11.5 hours with 10ths 15 mins paid. I know Stagecoach and Diamond have similar paid duty structures to this. Do NX not do this?
In an average working week with First, I'd get a couple of those long shifts with 3 shorter 6-8 hour shifts to make it up to 39-40 paid hours. Any driver could also apply to go onto the 4 day rota where each day had the 9-10 hour longer shifts but you got an extra day off every week. These sort of shifts also appealed to drivers doing overtime as you could then get paid up to 50 paid hours in a 5 fmday week and still have 2 days off. Trust me, First are not always a. great employer either but I can't see how NX are any worse.
I just am struggling to see how this NX driver could have been working those shift lengths EVERYDAY and only been paid 7 hours (35 hours for 5 days). That doesn't add up as no one would work 30 additional hours unpaid and I do not believe NX drivers are doing that either EVERYDAY. Perhaps the odd shift may reflect this but that must be an exaggeration of the situation otherwise NX would have no driver at all. The fact they have thousands suggests this is not the reality for every NX driver unless they are on a split shift rota with these longer days.
John's previous post I completely relate to about the deterioration in passenger and other driver's behaviour in recent years, so I can understand if your transport managers are giving you grief too then that is definitely a reason to want better conditions but that is not mentioned in this case by that driver. I am not saying that long working days don't happen, of course they do but I do not believe any NX driver is forced to work 12-13 hour shifts for 7 hours pay on a daily basis.
Quote from: j789 on March 19, 2023, 03:30:16 PMThat example of working 13 hour days is an extreme and can't be the norm. When driving for various companies with First, only those drivers who did split shifts would work for that long over a day, it would be impossible to do otherwise.
The longest shift we could do was 10 hours paid in a day (+/- a few mins either side). Long shifts like that always had 2 breaks that were less than an 1 hour each. We weren't paid for the first 1hour 15 mins of the total break length but anything over that was paid. Therefore total shift length was about 11.5 hours with 10ths 15 mins paid. I know Stagecoach and Diamond have similar paid duty structures to this. Do NX not do this?
In an average working week with First, I'd get a couple of those long shifts with 3 shorter 6-8 hour shifts to make it up to 39-40 paid hours. Any driver could also apply to go onto the 4 day rota where each day had the 9-10 hour longer shifts but you got an extra day off every week. These sort of shifts also appealed to drivers doing overtime as you could then get paid up to 50 paid hours in a 5 fmday week and still have 2 days off. Trust me, First are not always a. great employer either but I can't see how NX are any worse.
I just am struggling to see how this NX driver could have been working those shift lengths EVERYDAY and only been paid 7 hours (35 hours for 5 days). That doesn't add up as no one would work 30 additional hours unpaid and I do not believe NX drivers are doing that either EVERYDAY. Perhaps the odd shift may reflect this but that must be an exaggeration of the situation otherwise NX would have no driver at all. The fact they have thousands suggests this is not the reality for every NX driver unless they are on a split shift rota with these longer days.
John's previous post I completely relate to about the deterioration in passenger and other driver's behaviour in recent years, so I can understand if your transport managers are giving you grief too then that is definitely a reason to want better conditions but that is not mentioned in this case by that driver. I am not saying that long working days don't happen, of course they do but I do not believe any NX driver is forced to work 12-13 hour shifts for 7 hours pay on a daily basis.
NX have a 12 hour max spreadover which was in the process of being reduced when this all kicked off and was supposed to have happened in January. That is one of the reasons for the anger
lets hope they can sort it out quick
I have a question. If tomorrow a lot of Union drivers decide they want to work, could they then change their mind on Tuesday (or at any future point) and join the strike? Or is it a black and white you either strike or work?
You could end up having a more reduced service on some days compared to others and with the outpouring of customer dissatisfaction and anger at the moment, that won't do the cause any favours.
Quote from: Gareth on March 19, 2023, 04:58:20 PMI have a question. If tomorrow a lot of Union drivers decide they want to work, could they then change their mind on Tuesday (or at any future point) and join the strike? Or is it a black and white you either strike or work?
You could end up having a more reduced service on some days compared to others and with the outpouring of customer dissatisfaction and anger at the moment, that won't do the cause any favours.
I suspect it will be the other way around.
Quote from: Tony on March 19, 2023, 06:15:26 PMI suspect it will be the other way around.
I agree. If past strikes in other industries are anything to go by, then if the strike is prolonged then there will be a gradual drift back to work leaving only the hard core of strikers.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 19, 2023, 06:38:47 PMI agree. If past strikes in other industries are anything to go by, then if the strike is prolonged then there will be a gradual drift back to work leaving only the hard core of strikers.
Or anything like the bin stikes unite had it will be months till a deal is made :(
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 19, 2023, 06:38:47 PMI agree. If past strikes in other industries are anything to go by, then if the strike is prolonged then there will be a gradual drift back to work leaving only the hard core of strikers.
I can't believe anyone with an intention to strike would cross a picket line in the first day, but then go on strike
Strike hasn't achieved a result for the train drivers and I doubt this one will, once the reality of earning £75 a day takes hold and the mortgage is due they'll start drifting back to work.
Someone needs to ask unions what hardship their leaders are encountering on full pay.
If I were N.X. Id remove the offer off the table and let them get on with it, short term pain, long term gain.
If the drivers don't like the T & C's leave and get another job, there's plenty about.
Quote from: Mayfield on March 19, 2023, 07:38:05 PMStrike hasn't achieved a result for the train drivers and I doubt this one will, once the reality of earning £75 a day takes hold and the mortgage is due they'll start drifting back to work.
Someone needs to ask unions what hardship their leaders are encountering on full pay.
If I were N.X. Id remove the offer off the table and let them get on with it, short term pain, long term gain.
If the drivers don't like the T & C's leave and get another job, there's plenty about.
Offer 5% same as the nurses who do work mich harder and then let the unions complain
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 19, 2023, 07:50:29 PMOffer 5% same as the nurses who do work mich harder and then let the unions complain
No. we don't compare jobs, who works harder etc. Every working person works hard. Every working person deserves fair compensation for the jobs they do.
Quote from: Mayfield on March 19, 2023, 07:38:05 PMStrike hasn't achieved a result for the train drivers and I doubt this one will, once the reality of earning £75 a day takes hold and the mortgage is due they'll start drifting back to work.
Someone needs to ask unions what hardship their leaders are encountering on full pay.
If I were N.X. Id remove the offer off the table and let them get on with it, short term pain, long term gain.
If the drivers don't like the T & C's leave and get another job, there's plenty about.
That's a daft idea, why antagonise a sizeable chunk of the work force by doing that and removing the offer. Long term that will just destroy working relations even more.
Hopefully, NX and Unite come to a quick compromise now and relationships can be built up again quickly, it's a long time since this situation occurred in the West Mids previously so things clearly haven't been too bad in past years.
Any idea what time all buses will be back in garage tonight presume before 11
Good luck to them! People don't know what they're going to miss without the buses running. So many people are so ungrateful and disrespectful, they don't deserve don't a bus service. Let's wait for the whingeing to start come tomorrow!
QuoteAny idea what time all buses will be back in garage tonight presume before 11
Go on bus times and wait for the buses to disappear... Why do you need to know when all buses will be back in the garage? NX has said services will be affected after 10.30pm tonight
Is there much similarity to the deal offered to Arriva North West who went on strike for several weeks?
Quote from: Gareth on March 19, 2023, 04:58:20 PMI have a question. If tomorrow a lot of Union drivers decide they want to work, could they then change their mind on Tuesday (or at any future point) and join the strike? Or is it a black and white you either strike or work?
You could end up having a more reduced service on some days compared to others and with the outpouring of customer dissatisfaction and anger at the moment, that won't do the cause any favourite
It's the same as any other strike, as soon as you cross the picket line or say you're going to work during, there's no turning back
Quote from: mrboshell on March 19, 2023, 10:45:39 PMIt's the same as any other strike, as soon as you cross the picket line or say you're going to work during, there's no turning back
As I have no experience or knowledge of what happens during 'any other strike' this is why I asked. But your answer gave the information I enquired about so thank you.
Quote from: suavegarv on March 19, 2023, 09:59:28 PMIs there much similarity to the deal offered to Arriva North West who went on strike for several weeks?
Unite states the owners of Arriva are a wealthy company but surely each bus company in the UK are separate companies and each of their bus companies would report their own trading figures to companies house but as these are apart of Arrive these also get included in DB accounts who then reports there own annual profits/losses to its board. You would have to look deep into DB accounts to see where these profits have came from and like NX most of DB profits would likely come from its European companies that fall under the DB group.
According to companies house Arriva North West are late filing accounts, so it might not look to good up north.
Observation so far.
Spotted the 2 groups of Walsall drivers on the picket line as our nearly full Diamond passed at 6am.
625am 529 to Wolverhampton Non appearance so far!
51 seems to be running fine but there's no 4's. The 7:15am 4 hasn't arrived...
No NX buses to New Cross Hospital, anyone needing to go visit using a bus will need to use either Let's Go 65, Banga 53 or Chaserider 71.
No AG 4 spotted yet,however it might be a non tracking bus
Loads of people were waiting at the 17 stops on the Hob Moor Road this morning.
Do these people never check the website at least?
Also PB are running the 4's it appears?
Quote from: 2206 on March 20, 2023, 11:07:11 AMLoads of people were waiting at the 17 stops on the Hob Moor Road this morning.
Do these people never check the website at least?
People were waiting at the 17/60, X1/X2 stops in the City too...
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 20, 2023, 09:05:54 AMNo NX buses to New Cross Hospital, anyone needing to go visit using a bus will need to use either Let's Go 65, Banga 53 or Chaserider 71.
Must be a strong garage seems to be no buses running from Wolverhampton, good luck to all u strikers hope u get what u want, as a postie we are having our own issues
The 529 is running out of Wolverhampton today
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 20, 2023, 04:17:34 AMAccording to companies house Arriva North West are late filing accounts, so it might not look to good up north.
Same applies to the Midlands !
RTI is being real helpful with "refer to timetables" would be nice if nx could put paper signs up
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 20, 2023, 11:50:32 AMRTI is being real helpful with "refer to timetables" would be nice if nx could put paper signs up
To what end, the timetable could be changed again tomorrow. Are you going to have staff running around every day putting up and taking down timetables? However the electronic displays ought to be programmable so that only the master database needs updating and all the electronic displays display the correct information.
Quote from: 2206 on March 20, 2023, 11:07:11 AMLoads of people were waiting at the 17 stops on the Hob Moor Road this morning.
Do these people never check the website at least?
Also PB are running the 4's it appears?
4817
4814
1871
And 1864 are on the AG-4
AG picket Lines:
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2023-03-20/bus-passengers-face-chaos-as-national-express-drivers-begin-strike
Quote from: winston on March 20, 2023, 12:54:46 PMAG picket Lines:
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2023-03-20/bus-passengers-face-chaos-as-national-express-drivers-begin-strike
I hear they refused to let out the 4 buses that were going to be used on the 4.
Quote from: MW on March 20, 2023, 12:56:38 PMI hear they refused to let out the 4 buses that were going to be used on the 4.
Police had to be called to BC too, as the picket line blocked buses from leaving there as well.
Quote from: winston on March 20, 2023, 12:57:27 PMPolice had to be called to BC too, as the picket line blocked buses from leaving there as well.
I can see big trouble starting soon :(
Quote from: winston on March 20, 2023, 12:57:27 PMPolice had to be called to BC too, as the picket line blocked buses from leaving there as well.
I thought picket lines was ment to be peaceful and not block rights of ways
Quote from: MW on March 20, 2023, 12:56:38 PMI hear they refused to let out the 4 buses that were going to be used on the 4.
Yes they was pretending to be injured in front of the buses
Quote from: Bethhart2022 on March 20, 2023, 01:13:20 PMYes they was pretending to be injured in front of the buses
Thats ridiculous thats how to turn people against what you stikeing for not that the public seem to support them
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 20, 2023, 09:05:54 AMNo NX buses to New Cross Hospital, anyone needing to go visit using a bus will need to use either Let's Go 65, Banga 53 or Chaserider 71.
Thought the 59 service was running.
Quote from: PB50 on March 20, 2023, 01:39:31 PMThought the 59 service was running.
It was originally but it emerged that there wasn't going to be enough drivers to run it. In fact only the 529 service is running out of Wolverhampton today - that finishes around 8pm tonight.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 20, 2023, 12:09:44 PMTo what end, the timetable could be changed again tomorrow. Are you going to have staff running around every day putting up and taking down timetables? However the electronic displays ought to be programmable so that only the master database needs updating and all the electronic displays display the correct information.
In Walsall all the electronic displays are showing correctly.
Picket lines at WA and PN obstructing pathways with others having to walk in the road. WA's picket has a gazebo across the path. LCP have tried to liaise with PN's picket to let people pass but were met with some obstruction.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 20, 2023, 01:41:52 PMIt was originally but it emerged that there wasn't going to be enough drivers to run it. In fact only the 529 service is running out of Wolverhampton today - that finishes around 8pm tonight.
Oh I see. Thanks for that.
A number of the NX routes that are supposed to be running appear to have buses missing
QuoteLoads of people were waiting at the 17 stops on the Hob Moor Road this morning.
Do these people never check the website at least?
Also PB are running the 4's it appears?
Perry Barr are running the 4s yes
Quote from: BBS on March 20, 2023, 01:52:06 PMPerry Barr are running the 4s yes
A single decker was on this, route number was paper in the window. Is there a physical limitation on the route preventing double deck usage?
QuoteA single decker was on this, route number was paper in the window. Is there a physical limitation on the route preventing double deck usage?
4814 and 4817 are on the 4 too
Quote from: BBS on March 20, 2023, 02:12:01 PM4814 and 4817 are on the 4 too
In which case I'm confused as to why a single deck would be sent out - bizzare !
Am I right in thinking that Diamond (or any other operator for that matter) are not allowed to operate on NX routes (except the routes that are shared)
Quote from: metrocity on March 20, 2023, 02:13:30 PMIn which case I'm confused as to why a single deck would be sent out - bizzare !
There was a 42/43 E200 in the City earlier to.
West Brom bus on the 87 possibly,
BC have 6889 and 6825 out on the X21.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on March 20, 2023, 02:29:12 PMAm I right in thinking that Diamond (or any other operator for that matter) are not allowed to operate on NX routes (except the routes that are shared)
As far as I know, for routes operated under contract, an emergency tender could be issued but I'm not 100% about that. Commercial routes would need to be registered in the normal way. If the services were franchised, then I believe that it would be the case that yes, no other operators could run those routes as that would be in breach of the terms of the franchise.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 20, 2023, 03:39:48 PMAs far as I know, for routes operated under contract, an emergency tender could be issued but I'm not 100% about that. Commercial routes would need to be registered in the normal way. If the services were franchised, then I believe that it would be the case that yes, no other operators could run those routes as that would be in breach of the terms of the franchise.
The only reason i asled was that I was driving past Stourbridge bus station this morning at 09:45 and a Diamond bus came out with 6 as the number on the rear? Wouldn't have taken much notice but as I followed it round onto Stourbridge Ring Road,an NX employee seemed to be watching it and was either on his phone or taking pictures!
Quote from: 2206 on March 20, 2023, 03:34:00 PMThere was a 42/43 E200 in the City earlier to.
West Brom bus on the 87 possibly,
BC have 6889 and 6825 out on the X21.
Why would they put a 8xx on 87
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 20, 2023, 03:51:39 PMWhy would they put a 8xx on 87
Could be the nearest bus parked next to the exit
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 20, 2023, 03:51:39 PMWhy would they put a 8xx on 87
Ask you friends on the picket line at WB you support
Quote from: Wumpty on March 20, 2023, 01:45:08 PMPicket lines at WA and PN obstructing pathways with others having to walk in the road. WA's picket has a gazebo across the path. LCP have tried to liaise with PN's picket to let people pass but were met with some obstruction.
A load of crap you posted about pensnett I was there that wasn't what was said
Quote from: karl724223 on March 20, 2023, 03:54:31 PMA load of crap you posted about pensnett I was there that wasn't what was said
To be honest thanks to a slight "cock up" this morning, ended up going past Pensnett Trading Estate and decided to pop down mostly to see what the garage looked like full of buses.
So, I can't talk about any other time but at around 11:30 there didn't seem to be anyone blocking any pavements or restricting any access to anywhere!
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on March 20, 2023, 04:18:32 PMTo be honest thanks to a slight "cock up" this morning, ended up going past Pensnett Trading Estate and decided to pop down mostly to see what the garage looked like full of buses.
So, I can't talk about any other time but at around 11:30 there didn't seem to be anyone blocking any pavements or restricting any access to anywhere!
I was still there at 1130 as well
QuoteSomeone needs to ask unions what hardship their leaders are encountering on full pay.
Yawn. Someone needs to ask nx bosses, such as MD David Bradford (He of the cringeworthy 'open letter'), exactly what hardship they're encountering on their 'meagre' salary...
Is there anything stopping other operators (bar driver shortages etc), from running extra buses on their existing routes? Rules etc? For example, Kevs 10 could probably benefit from there being no BC 24 currently.
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 20, 2023, 07:24:29 PMIs there anything stopping other operators (bar driver shortages etc), from running extra buses on their existing routes? Rules etc? For example, Kevs 10 could probably benefit from there being no BC 24 currently.
As has already been mentioned, besides the bus/driver availability, there is the issue of registering additional journeys onto the registered timetables.
Quote from: Stu on March 20, 2023, 07:27:24 PMAs has already been mentioned, besides the bus/driver availability, there is the issue of registering additional journeys onto the registered timetables.
Couldn't you register them under short notice and use the following reasons from the supplementary short notice form (PSV350A)?
'(d) register the particulars of a new service or vary the registration to augment an existing service in order to provide a service for a period not exceeding 21 days, in connection with a specified event or occasion which will cause an additional demand for a service;'
or
'(i) register or vary a registration in order to meet an urgent and exceptional public passenger transport requirement.'
Quote from: IMarkeh on March 20, 2023, 07:37:46 PMCouldn't you register them under short notice and use the following reasons from the supplementary short notice form (PSV350A)?
'(d) register the particulars of a new service or vary the registration to augment an existing service in order to provide a service for a period not exceeding 21 days, in connection with a specified event or occasion which will cause an additional demand for a service;'
or
'(i) register or vary a registration in order to meet an urgent and exceptional public passenger transport requirement.'
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
Quote from: Stu on March 20, 2023, 07:56:51 PMThanks, I wasn't aware of that.
And whilst the registration would 99% be certain to be accepted, it's not going to happen as nobody has drivers.
Quote from: andy41 on March 20, 2023, 08:08:45 PMAnd whilst the registration would 99% be certain to be accepted, it's not going to happen as nobody has drivers.
Except maybe green bus?
The Green Bus offers to 'plug gaps' caused by National Express strike after giving drivers 26 per cent pay rise (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/the-green-bus-offers-to-plug-gaps-caused-by-national-express-strike-after-giving-drivers-26-per-cent-pay-rise/ar-AA18QsL6)
"The Green Bus said it had offered Transport for West Midlands the use of 18 buses to help keep key services running."
Quote from: Stu on March 20, 2023, 07:56:51 PMThanks, I wasn't aware of that.
Would be an interesting situation created here if those operators also had Unite members.
Unite would look pretty impotent if their own members from other local companies were undermining the NX drivers action. I don't think people here are thinking about the massive repercussions that such a situation would create. Taking advantage of NX issues in the short term may seem like a good plan but what happens when all this is over - those companies will be a target of NX retaliation longer term which would likely further degrade the operating situation in the West Midlands.
Quote from: j789 on March 20, 2023, 08:14:52 PMWould be an interesting situation created here if those operators also had Unite members.
Unite would look pretty impotent if their own members from other local companies were undermining the NX drivers action. I don't think people here are thinking about the massive repercussions that such a situation would create. Taking advantage of NX issues in the short term may seem like a good plan but what happens when all this is over - those companies will be a target of NX retaliation longer term which would likely further degrade the operating situation in the West Midlands.
Registering a service under those provisions means it must be during a period not exceeding 21 days. In other words, temporary.
What other operators has Unite members? I don't think any do, bar the big boys.
Quote from: 2206 on March 20, 2023, 08:11:27 PMExcept maybe green bus?
The Green Bus offers to 'plug gaps' caused by National Express strike after giving drivers 26 per cent pay rise (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/the-green-bus-offers-to-plug-gaps-caused-by-national-express-strike-after-giving-drivers-26-per-cent-pay-rise/ar-AA18QsL6)
"The Green Bus said it had offered Transport for West Midlands the use of 18 buses to help keep key services running."
Quote from: j789 on March 20, 2023, 08:14:52 PMWould be an interesting situation created here if those operators also had Unite members.
Unite would look pretty impotent if their own members from other local companies were undermining the NX drivers action. I don't think people here are thinking about the massive repercussions that such a situation would create. Taking advantage of NX issues in the short term may seem like a good plan but what happens when all this is over - those companies will be a target of NX retaliation longer term which would likely further degrade the operating situation in the West Midlands.
Quote from: 2206 on March 20, 2023, 08:11:27 PMExcept maybe green bus?
The Green Bus offers to 'plug gaps' caused by National Express strike after giving drivers 26 per cent pay rise (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/the-green-bus-offers-to-plug-gaps-caused-by-national-express-strike-after-giving-drivers-26-per-cent-pay-rise/ar-AA18QsL6)
"The Green Bus said it had offered Transport for West Midlands the use of 18 buses to help keep key services running."
If The Green Bus ran any routes during the industrial action, the only routes they could realistically run would be routes that are near the schools they run contract services for, so they can start running them when the students are at school at 09:30 and finish at 14:30. I could see them doing the likes of the 23 and 61/63 in Birmingham (which would be helpful on the days when the trains are on strike too), but not much more than that.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 20, 2023, 08:30:59 PMIf The Green Bus ran any routes during the industrial action, the only routes they could realistically run would be routes that are near the schools they run contract services for, so they can start running them when the students are at school at 09:30 and finish at 14:30. I could see them doing the likes of the 23 and 61/63 in Birmingham (which would be helpful on the days when the trains are on strike too), but not much more than that.
green bus typical school services end about 8.00 and some start up as late as 3.50.
https://bustimes.org/services/873-the-green-bus-king-edward-vi-camp-hill-hamst-2
So if they could provide some sort of service between 8.00 and 3.50 somethings better than nothing.
I think 90% of the school runs are likely to be commercially operated rather than contracts to.
Quote from: MW on March 20, 2023, 08:26:25 PMRegistering a service under those provisions means it must be during a period not exceeding 21 days. In other words, temporary.
What other operators has Unite members? I don't think any do, bar the big boys.
Simon mentioned that Diamond have Unite reps at their West Midlands garages so it does narrow down the potential operators.
Also, plenty of pitfalls for operators like Green Bus doing this between school journeys- what happens if a bus breaks down doing these extra runs or is caught in heavy traffic? - we all know hour or more delays are possible when the roads in Brum become gridlocked. It would potentially miss the school journey it is contracted to run.
Also, I still can't see many of their drivers (who clearly have chosen this style of school bus driving as a career choice) to suddenly want to drive buses through inner city Birmingham dealing with all the riff raff that entails, no matter what they are being paid. Is the stress worth it for a few extra £100 over the 21 or what ever days it would run for?
Quote from: MW on March 20, 2023, 08:26:25 PMRegistering a service under those provisions means it must be during a period not exceeding 21 days. In other words, temporary.
What other operators has Unite members? I don't think any do, bar the big boys.
Would it be possible for a new registration to go in before the 21 days are up if the strike drags on and on?
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 20, 2023, 08:34:23 PMWould it be possible for a new registration to go in before the 21 days are up if the strike drags on and on?
Yes absolutely it would.
Problem here is the Green Bus are effectively saying they'd cover the services on a tender basis. Tfwm are already having to borrow from the BSIP pot (very naughty they are too) just to be able to tender existing services, they certainly won't have the money to issue tenders for strike cover.
Quote from: j789 on March 20, 2023, 08:33:12 PMSimon mentioned that Diamond have Unite reps at their West Midlands garages so it does narrow down the potential operators.
But the Unite members at other operators are not in a dispute with their employers.
Quote from: Stu on March 20, 2023, 08:43:05 PMBut the Unite members at other operators are not in a dispute with their employers.
True but the point of the union is as a 'collective' - everyone seen as one whole, not individuals. Local Unite drivers from other companies undermining their fellow members at NX affects that mentality and ultimately severely weakens the union.
I cannot see Unite reps at other companies encouraging their drivers to cover routes affected by strikes. Strikes are meant to disrupt, the union will look incredibly weak if it's own members are minimising that disruption!
Quote from: j789 on March 20, 2023, 08:54:54 PMTrue but the point of the union is as a 'collective' - everyone seen as one whole, not individuals. Local Unite drivers from other companies undermining their fellow members at NX affects that mentality and ultimately severely weakens the union.
I cannot see Unite reps at other companies encouraging their drivers to cover routes affected by strikes. Strikes are meant to disrupt, the union will look incredibly weak if it's own members are minimising that disruption!
Striking in sympathy isn't legal anymore so they would be powerless until they had created a dispute of their own and balloted successfully. The ill feeling between NX drivers and management comes down to far more than pay. Other companies have better relationships with their Unite members and reps and reps don't tend to concern themselves too much with other peoples' disputes as to do so removes leverage for them when they need it.
Quote from: andy41 on March 20, 2023, 09:12:48 PMStriking in sympathy isn't legal anymore so they would be powerless until they had created a dispute of their own and balloted successfully. The ill feeling between NX drivers and management comes down to far more than pay. Other companies have better relationships with their Unite members and reps and reps don't tend to concern themselves too much with other peoples' disputes as to do so removes leverage for them when they need it.
The difference here though is that those union drivers at other companies would be being asked to drive routes not on their normal rota. Now this is something the union reps at those companies would be involved with as no company could force their drivers on to new rotas without the necessary consultation process.
I obviously agree with the points about that these drivers couldn't refuse to work their own allocated shifts in support of NX drivers, but they certainly could refuse to drive on new routes covering for those striking NX drivers as, if their companies have union representation, then these new routes couldn't be foisted on drivers. There is no way any decent union rep in another local company would go against other union action in their locality. How can they justify union values if they don't support their union's actions?
Quote from: karl724223 on March 20, 2023, 03:54:31 PMA load of crap you posted about pensnett I was there that wasn't what was said
I was at LCP House in TESG meetings most of yesterday and was party to the conversations and phone calls from neighbouring businesses who'd complained about the footpath obstructions. Strangely, some of the delegates, including myself, had sympathised with the the strikers' cause though understood the all round frustrations.
The only difference between the situation at PN and WA is that Pensnett Trading Estate is essentially private property and police have got limited powers to disperse anyone obstructing any footpaths (it borders on civil trespass unless anyone deliberately obstructs another from going about their lawful business, then it becomes aggravated trespass and does permit police intervention), unlike at WA where the footpath is on the public highway and the police will have greater powers.
Still, one's interpretations are dependant upon which side of the picket you sit.
QuoteI was at LCP House in TESG meetings most of yesterday and was party to the conversations and phone calls from neighbouring businesses who'd complained about the footpath obstructions. Strangely, some of the delegates, including myself, had sympathised with the the strikers' cause though understood the all round frustrations.
The only difference between the situation at PN and WA is that Pensnett Trading Estate is essentially private property and police have got limited powers to disperse anyone obstructing any footpaths (it borders on civil trespass unless anyone deliberately obstructs another from going about their lawful business, then it becomes aggravated trespass and does permit police intervention), unlike at WA where the footpath is on the public highway and the police will have greater powers.
Still, one's interpretations are dependant upon which side of the picket you sit.
AG is probably worst , as there's literally houses next to it
Quote from: BBS on March 21, 2023, 07:13:24 AMAG is probably worst , as there's literally houses next to it
Each garage has its logistical challenges at the best of times, none moreso where NX staff have a right to picket. In fairness to PN, where the picket line is, is probably the safest for them (and more visible). The numbers on the picket line are a great representation on the feeling of the staff.
I'm not criticising anyone's right to picket or stand on a footpath, or saying there's right or wrong, but it just needs some common sense all round.
Quote from: metrocity on March 20, 2023, 11:27:19 AMSame applies to the Midlands !
So if the accounts haven't been filed to company house for Arriva Midlands; Arriva North West and Arriva Kent it's got to be looking grime for Arriva group and we know these are not the only operators leaking money left, right and centre. Surely the regional operator can justify low pay rises but 'Unites point of view' is the overall group made money and therefore you should pay staff a decent payrise.
We know from Diamond Midlands there routes are struggling to make profits and this will be the same for West Midlands Travel Ltd (NXWM) surely pay rises have to be justified and to a reasonable percentage, that doesn't involve the operator put up fares to help pay for it as this could lead to more people using car which then leads to routes cut and job losses.
Looking on National Express site this morning the 59 service from Wolverhampton to Ashmore Park is running today.
QuoteLooking on National Express site this morning the 59 service from Wolverhampton to Ashmore Park is running today.
Along with AG operating the 4 as usual today
I guess anything higher then 15% will mean a fare increase and an unhappy mr street who said fares are frozon untill 2025*
*If i remember rightly
Wonder if they would accept 15%
Quote from: PB50 on March 21, 2023, 08:16:45 AMLooking on National Express site this morning the 59 service from Wolverhampton to Ashmore Park is running today.
It's running hourly rather than every 10 minutes or so. Bustimes.org are tracking 3 buses on there.
The 2 X21's were running within minutes of each other earlier. Front one only going to University and back one going to Weoley Castle.
Also 2 87's together as well.
Quote from: 2206 on March 21, 2023, 11:21:02 AMThe 2 X21's were running within minutes of each other earlier. Front one only going to University and back one going to Weoley Castle.
Also 2 87's together as well.
The timetables probably only allow for normal journey running times & don't take in to account how busy the limited services will be
It would seem the 6 is being ran by BC buses today. 6843 is parked in Solihull Town Centre with a piece of paper saying 6.
4 has AG buses.
QuoteIt would seem the 6 is being ran by BC buses today. 6843 is parked in Solihull Town Centre with a piece of paper saying 6.
4 has AG buses.
6893 and 6894 are on the 6
Quote from: GoldenSquid on March 21, 2023, 11:59:33 AMIt would seem the 6 is being ran by BC buses today. 6843 is parked in Solihull Town Centre with a piece of paper saying 6.
4 has AG buses.
Yes, police had to be called because the exit at YW was not accessible
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 12:21:01 PMYes, police had to be called because the exit at YW was not accessible
Again?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 21, 2023, 12:32:45 PMAgain?
Brief footage here:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/its-kicking-off-moment-police-26521826
Quote from: Wumpty on March 21, 2023, 06:10:54 AMI was at LCP House in TESG meetings most of yesterday and was party to the conversations and phone calls from neighbouring businesses who'd complained about the footpath obstructions. Strangely, some of the delegates, including myself, had sympathised with the the strikers' cause though understood the all round frustrations.
The only difference between the situation at PN and WA is that Pensnett Trading Estate is essentially private property and police have got limited powers to disperse anyone obstructing any footpaths (it borders on civil trespass unless anyone deliberately obstructs another from going about their lawful business, then it becomes aggravated trespass and does permit police intervention), unlike at WA where the footpath is on the public highway and the police will have greater powers.
Still, one's interpretations are dependant upon which side of the picket you sit.
There was no pavement obstruction
Nobody was prevented from entering or leaving the property
The unit cars were parked on is an empty unit so I don't know how somebody from that unit complained like the woman representing said like it was pointed out legal and peaceful protest again the woman was only interested in calling the police so she was told to call them
They didn't attend
Quote from: karl724223 on March 21, 2023, 12:54:59 PMThere was no pavement obstruction
Nobody was prevented from entering or leaving the property
The unit cars were parked on is an empty unit so I don't know how somebody from that unit complained like the woman representing said like it was pointed out legal and peaceful protest again the woman was only interested in calling the police so she was told to call them
They didn't attend
Quote form woman sent your on private property your on our grass pmsfl
Wasn't there a company that was either advertising for bus drivers from ex national express? Haven't heard anything from that for a while...
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 12:21:01 PMYes, police had to be called because the exit at YW was not accessible
Were some buses being parked up overnight at the recreation ground off Wheelers Lane? (Where the New Irish Centre and WMT Social Club are)
I noticed this morning on BusTimes (for a quick 'overview'), that a couple of buses on the 6 (one of them 6894) had started service from there.
Any news on new negotiations or possible compromise over the last couple of days?
Quote from: j789 on March 21, 2023, 08:08:27 PMAny news on new negotiations or possible compromise over the last couple of days?
I think management are meeting Union on Thursday
Quote from: Mike K on March 21, 2023, 12:51:31 PMBrief footage here:
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/its-kicking-off-moment-police-26521826
While I respect the reason why the union members are striking, I think its a bit unfair for them to be obstructing their non-union colleagues and preventing them from doing their job.
Quote from: Stu on March 21, 2023, 08:30:53 PMWhile I respect the reason why the union members are striking, I think its a bit unfair for them to be obstructing their non-union colleagues and preventing them from doing their job.
Is there not a rule about not causing obstructions
Me and my partner drove past the Ring & Ride depot this afternoon in Rubery & noticed a Platinum and an Enviro 400 parked in there is this what NX are choosing to do while the strikes are taking place parking buses in there Ring & Ride depots for drivers to use? I find it most bizarre as I saw a 51 tracking on bustimes this morning obviously running dead to start service somewhere and he had put his machine from the Wednesbury Ring & Ride depot.
Quote from: hlliwmai on March 21, 2023, 08:44:50 PMMe and my partner drove past the Ring & Ride depot this afternoon in Rubery & noticed a Platinum and an Enviro 400 parked in there is this what NX are choosing to do while the strikes are taking place parking buses in there Ring & Ride depots for drivers to use? I find it most bizarre as I saw a 51 tracking on bustimes this morning obviously running dead to start service somewhere and he had put his machine from the Wednesbury Ring & Ride depot.
Yes, I guess because Ring & Ride is part of NX group but not on strike, they are using those depots for overnight stabling of buses required for use.
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 08:12:50 PMI think management are meeting Union on Thursday
I hope for a successful outcome, they've made their point now so hopefully the union will be cooperative.
Quote from: j789 on March 21, 2023, 09:56:41 PMI hope for a successful outcome, they've made their point now so hopefully the union will be cooperative.
Cant see the union being cooperative untill nx have offered every penny/cent they have available as unite seem to think nx bus has access to finances from the others branches of nx group
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 21, 2023, 09:11:45 PMYes, I guess because Ring & Ride is part of NX group but not on strike, they are using those depots for overnight stabling of buses required for use.
The vehicles to my understanding are being stored there overnight and being taken into service by non striking and non union drivers from depots. Bordesley green garage is also being utilised for this as well as the coach depot at Aston
Quote from: dw1308 on March 21, 2023, 10:12:22 PMThe vehicles to my understanding are being stored there overnight and being taken into service by non striking and non union drivers from depots. Bordesley green garage is also being utilised for this as well as the coach depot at Aston
Bordesley us being used to store WB buses so there's enough room to get other garages buses in for MoT during the day
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 10:19:07 PMBordesley us being used to store WB buses so there's enough room to get other garages buses in for MoT during the day
I did wonder why there was a 79 branded E400 there and a few 82/87 branded platinums. Thanks for clearing that up
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 10:19:07 PMBordesley us being used to store WB buses so there's enough room to get other garages buses in for MoT during the day
Any idea what buses are down there
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 21, 2023, 10:03:56 PMCant see the union being cooperative untill nx have offered every penny/cent they have available as unite seem to think nx bus has access to finances from the others branches of nx group
Remember though it only needs another 21% or so of drivers to vote for an offer to get the >50% for acceptance - I don't think a massive increase is required, probably just a token pay increase gesture on the previous offer coupled with some updated driving conditions that the drivers seem to be particularly focused on.
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 10:19:07 PMBordesley us being used to store WB buses so there's enough room to get other garages buses in for MoT during the day
Believe 6970 6971 6974 6986 is the ones down there can you confirm that
Quote from: j789 on March 21, 2023, 10:22:18 PMRemember though it only needs another 21% or so of drivers to vote for an offer to get the >50% for acceptance - I don't think a massive increase is required, probably just a token pay increase gesture on the previous offer coupled with some updated driving conditions that the drivers seem to be particularly focused on.
I think you'll find they're far more interested in both the length of the deal and changes to t's and c's than they are about the percentage increase on offer.
Quote from: andy41 on March 21, 2023, 11:35:41 PMI think you'll find they're far more interested in both the length of the deal and changes to t's and c's than they are about the percentage increase on offer.
The deal is one year, exactly what the reps asked and is a straight rise with no strings
WB 4964 & 4966 on the X21 this morning. More 'peaceful' striking at BC I'm guessing.
There was about 6 platinum buses on the overflow stand at West Bromwich this morning which was strange as only the 5 is running out of West Bromwich.
It seems some deckers might have been put there so there are no delays to services tlday
4693 on the 97, no sign of any buses on the 6 either
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 22, 2023, 07:23:11 AM4693 on the 97, no sign of any buses on the 6 either
Is the 97 running from wb now
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 22, 2023, 07:27:50 AMIt looks like it
I wonder whether they will put a 82/87 branded platuim on there
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 22, 2023, 07:25:22 AMIs the 97 running from wb now
It's still a BC route but using a vehicle from another garage that's been parked up at one of the holding locations.
Quote from: dw1308 on March 22, 2023, 07:31:19 AMIt's still a BC route but using a vehicle from another garage that's been parked up at one of the holding locations.
I know but they better not put a 82/87 branded on there
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 22, 2023, 07:34:14 AMI know but they better not put a 82/87 branded on there
They will allocate whats available
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 07:39:49 AMThey will allocate whats available
The 87 brand don't deserve to get recked on x21 or 97
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 22, 2023, 07:42:24 AMThe 87 brand don't deserve to get recked on x21 or 97
Well this is just laughable.
6863 is on 97 now
Quote from: Tony on March 22, 2023, 06:09:48 AMThe deal is one year, exactly what the reps asked and is a straight rise with no strings
Wheres the overtime rate, plus its a strike about more than just pay its also protest strike, drivers venting years of anger frustrations with mangement last 20 years its been take take take with crappie 2 year pay deals.
Buses being prevented leaving Coventry Garage according to NX Coventry.
Quote from: BrumKev86 on March 22, 2023, 08:19:28 AMBuses being prevented leaving Coventry Garage according to NX Coventry.
Covs turn to have the police called i take it 🤬
Nx need a good hard look at some of there staff
Quote from: 18WilliamsLi on March 22, 2023, 07:42:24 AMThe 87 brand don't deserve to get recked on x21 or 97
Ah yes, they must be in pristine condition having operated along the salubrious, anti-social behaviour-free Dudley Road day and night. Would be a shame to ruin them.
I'm sure what bus is running in what route isn't the priority right now.
Strike action | NX Bus Coventry (https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/service-updates/strike-action)
As mentioned in the CV Garage thread, bus have been prevented from leaving the garage.
Moment protesters block National Express bus leaving Perry Barr depot amid pay row - Birmingham Live (birminghammail.co.uk) (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/moment-protesters-block-national-express-26523688)
The same happened yesterday at YW and PB with police attending both garages.
It certainly appears that industrial action is being stepped up to prevent buses leaving for limited service.
Quote from: Wumpty on March 22, 2023, 08:42:53 AMStrike action | NX Bus Coventry (https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/service-updates/strike-action)
As mentioned in the CV Garage thread, bus have been prevented from leaving the garage.
Moment protesters block National Express bus leaving Perry Barr depot amid pay row - Birmingham Live (birminghammail.co.uk) (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/moment-protesters-block-national-express-26523688)
The same happened yesterday at YW and PB with police attending both garages.
It certainly appears that industrial action is being stepped up to prevent buses leaving for limited service.
Cant staff physically move them
6970 is currently on the 6
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 08:32:54 AMCovs turn to have the police called i take it 🤬
Nx need a good hard look at some of there staff
Why do they? Picketers are exercising their right to peaceful protest and this involves being in a position that impedes buses leaving. The coverage shows them walking on the apron areas which they are entitled to do. There are no jaywalking laws in this country so they are doing nothing illegal.
As I've mentioned before, this is happening on private property and only the landowners can trespass picketers which is a civil matter. Police will be there to prevent a breach of the peace or to move picketers if it becomes aggravated trespass where people are prevented from performing their legitimate duties, ONLY if reported by those affected to the police, i.e. NX or the landowner.
There's a moral and a legal discussion and the picketers are doing nothing illegal at this point.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 08:51:54 AMCant staff physically move them
No. Anyone other than police going hands-on to remove them would be committing assault and potentially arrested. Also, why would staff attempt to remove them? See below.
Quote from: Wumpty on March 22, 2023, 08:55:44 AMWhy do they? Picketers are exercising their right to peaceful protest and this involves being in a position that impedes buses leaving. The coverage shows them walking on the apron areas which they are entitled to do. There are no jaywalking laws in this country so they are doing nothing illegal.
As I've mentioned before, this is happening on private property and only the landowners can trespass picketers which is a civil matter. Police will be there to prevent a breach of the peace or to move picketers if it becomes aggravated trespass where people are prevented from performing their legitimate duties, ONLY if reported by those affected to the police, i.e. NX or the landowner.
There's a moral and a legal discussion and the picketers are doing nothing illegal at this point.
The other legal arguments are in the above post.
Quote from: 2900 on March 22, 2023, 08:14:38 AMplus its a strike about more than just pay its also protest strike, drivers venting years of anger frustrations with mangement last 20 years.
So is it one or the other? Unite doesn't mention 'years of anger and frustrations with management'. Sounds like a bit of a weak argument being used behind the fact the members have rejected a straight 14.3%!?
Quote from: Wumpty on March 22, 2023, 08:55:44 AMWhy do they? Picketers are exercising their right to peaceful protest and this involves being in a position that impedes buses leaving. The coverage shows them walking on the apron areas which they are entitled to do. There are no jaywalking laws in this country so they are doing nothing illegal.
As I've mentioned before, this is happening on private property and only the landowners can trespass picketers which is a civil matter. Police will be there to prevent a breach of the peace or to move picketers if it becomes aggravated trespass where people are prevented from performing their legitimate duties, ONLY if reported by those affected to the police, i.e. NX or the landowner.
There's a moral and a legal discussion and the picketers are doing nothing illegal at this point.
Cant they use buses thats in the other car park
Quote from: dw1308 on March 21, 2023, 10:21:06 PMI did wonder why there was a 79 branded E400 there and a few 82/87 branded platinums. Thanks for clearing that up
Think you are partly mistaken as there aren't any 79 branded buses.
Can any SMT allowed to say what was in the pay deal that was turned down or is it only for company/ staff eyes as im interested in whats was put forward
Here are the current laws on picketing
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/going-on-strike-and-picketing#:~:text=Picketing%20and%20the%20law,causing%20an%20obstruction'%20by%20police)
Quote from: Tony on March 22, 2023, 10:27:24 AMHere are the current laws on picketing
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes/going-on-strike-and-picketing#:~:text=Picketing%20and%20the%20law,causing%20an%20obstruction'%20by%20police)
Interesting
- try to block roads near the picket line (called 'causing an obstruction to the public highway')
so if they tried to block cox street in coventry they would be in breach?[/list]
"32.The law protects peaceful communication and persuasion. It does not give pickets, anyone organising or participating in any activity associated with picketing, or anyone organising a picket, protection against civil proceedings
being brought against them for any conduct occurring during the picketing, or associated activity, which amounts to a separate civil wrong such as:
� unlawful threat or assault
� harassment (i.e. threatening or unreasonable behaviour causing fear or apprehension to those in the vicinity);
� obstruction of a path, road, entrance or exit to premises;
� interference (e.g. because of noise or crowds) in the rights of those neighbouring properties (i.e. private nuisance);
� trespassing on private property."
Quote from: Tony on March 21, 2023, 10:19:07 PMBordesley us being used to store WB buses so there's enough room to get other garages buses in for MoT during the day
thank you
Walsall are out running the X4 today.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 22, 2023, 09:24:50 AMThink you are partly mistaken as there aren't any 79 branded buses.
Yes I was mistaken as I saw the vehicle in service this morning I do apologise
I wonder how long the public support will last?
I wonder if the more militant members of the public, getting extremely fed up themselves with the situation, might take matters into their own matters & head off down the depots & confront the picket line themselves?
The police would have a field day if that happened!
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 12:08:26 PMI wonder how long the public support will last?
I wonder if the more militant members of the public, getting extremely fed up themselves with the situation, might take matters into their own matters & head off down the depots & confront the picket line themselves?
The police would have a field day if that happened!
They have lost a huge amount of support in coventry today
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 12:08:26 PMI wonder how long the public support will last?
I wonder if the more militant members of the public, getting extremely fed up themselves with the situation, might take matters into their own matters & head off down the depots & confront the picket line themselves?
The police would have a field day if that happened!
Perhaps Andy Street could pop down and have a chat at the same time !
Quote from: metrocity on March 22, 2023, 12:16:54 PMPerhaps Andy Street could pop down and have a chat at the same time !
More chance of seeing a flying cow
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 12:10:56 PMThey have lost a huge amount of support in coventry today
I think a lot of support was lost when how much of a payrise drivers where getting was turned down.
Even thou I'm not in the union where I work, we originally had 2.5% for 22/23 this has now been upped to 5% when the bosses agreed on adding an extra 2.5% for 22/23 pay award and bosses agreed from September 23 pay rises of 3%.
Seems like no Perry Barr buses are out today. Seen WA 6719 and 6734 on the X4, and WB 822 and 1935 on the 28.
There were suggestions at the weekend that it might potentially be possible to put out more buses than the minimum core hospitals service that was published.
If anything, the opposite seems to be the case.
Quote from: Michael Bevan on March 22, 2023, 12:46:41 PMSeems like no Perry Barr buses are out today. Seen WA 6719 and 6734 on the X4, and WB 822 and 1935 on the 28.
None seem to be tracking on bustimes.
Quote from: PB50 on March 22, 2023, 01:19:54 PMNone seem to be tracking on bustimes.
Loans don't and recent transfers don't track
Just seen a 87 branded WB bus near Solihull town centre doing YW 6 route. Didn't catch the fleet number but I don't think it's tracking.
Edit it was 6973
Quote from: BrumKev86 on March 22, 2023, 01:54:37 PMJust seen a 87 branded WB bus near Solihull town centre doing YW 6 route. Didn't catch the fleet number but I don't think it's tracking.
see the comment above yours. No buses on a route other than their home garage will track.
Quote from: metrocity on March 22, 2023, 12:16:54 PMPerhaps Andy Street could pop down and have a chat at the same time !
He won't be seen unless there a photo opportunity involved
Quote from: LiamsTransport1 on March 22, 2023, 02:04:24 PMHe won't be seen unless there a photo opportunity involved
He needs removing and replacing by a person who knows that there doing
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 12:08:26 PMI wonder how long the public support will last?
I'm yet to hear any normal member of public with much sympathy - and I have heard a lot of non bus people talking about it this week!
Certain drivers on social media are also doing themselves no favours!
Quote from: Straightlines on March 22, 2023, 02:09:47 PMI'm yet to hear any normal member of public with much sympathy - and I have heard a lot of non bus people talking about it this week!
Certain drivers on social media are also doing themselves no favours!
Theres a diamond driver who said
"All I can say is, if NX drivers were abused before the strike, wait until they go back to work." just hope its not a sign of things to come for nx drivers
Quote from: Straightlines on March 22, 2023, 02:09:47 PMI'm yet to hear any normal member of public with much sympathy - and I have heard a lot of non bus people talking about it this week!
Certain drivers on social media are also doing themselves no favours!
Well blocking buses from leaving the garages isn't going to help that either is it...
Andy has commented at last
https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1638553185164967936?t=LFFdthqGf0OSMjOaiEeomg&s=19
Quote from: Straightlines on March 22, 2023, 02:09:47 PMI'm yet to hear any normal member of public with much sympathy - and I have heard a lot of non bus people talking about it this week!
Certain drivers on social media are also doing themselves no favours!
It was announced on the radio this afternoon, that NXWM are now getting double the number of new driver applicants during the strikes too...
I'm slightly confused how depots other than the 'home' depot are operating other depots routes, eg Walsall operating the X4 ?
Thought the drivers would stay on their own depots routes?
Is this tied up with the buses being parked up 'elsewhere '?
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 12:08:26 PMI wonder how long the public support will last?
I wonder if the more militant members of the public, getting extremely fed up themselves with the situation, might take matters into their own matters & head off down the depots & confront the picket line themselves?
The police would have a field day if that happened!
You sister can go down 😂
Quote from: karl724223 on March 22, 2023, 06:20:55 PMYou sister can go down 😂
Unfortunately she is away out of the area this week, so she couldn't!
You're not one of these drivers on social media previously mentioned are you?
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 06:23:58 PMUnfortunately she is away out of the area this week, so she couldn't!
You're not one of these drivers on social media previously mentioned are you?
No pensnett strike is nice and peaceful
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 06:23:58 PMUnfortunately she is away out of the area this week, so she couldn't!
She wouldn't have been able to get the bus there anyway this week...
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 06:01:50 PMI'm slightly confused how depots other than the 'home' depot are operating other depots routes, eg Walsall operating the X4 ?
Thought the drivers would stay on their own depots routes?
Is this tied up with the buses being parked up 'elsewhere '?
Pretty certain it's the same drivers that were meant to drive it. Just using another depots buses.
With strikes like this, a lot of disruption is obviously to be expected. However, what is not acceptable is when this disruption is purposely targeted at vulnerable groups. If the story is true that pickets at Coventry really did prevent a school bus leaving the depot today to fulfil its essential duty, then I really hope their own kids suffer in the future because their learning is inconvenienced by other workers who they have got nothing to do with. It is just not fair to create that additional disruption to children, it is enough to withdraw your labour so few buses operate. It's a bloody disgrace to stop the few services that can operate from doing so.
I've worked alongside a fair few 'militant' union guys in various roles but not one of them would have justified such action against school buses not being able to run, no matter what the dispute was about. As a long term unite member, I cannot believe that the union would sanction such action and hopefully the more moderate drivers may well be persuaded to back a new pay deal because they too are disgusted by the action of a minority. Remember it just needs another 21% to vote for the deal.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/bus-driver-warns-striking-national-26531704?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Read this earlier on 😳
Quote from: suavegarv on March 22, 2023, 07:09:37 PMhttps://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/bus-driver-warns-striking-national-26531704?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Read this earlier on 😳
Kinda worried for the safety of the working staff the stikers can fend for them selfs now
Quote from: j789 on March 22, 2023, 07:08:03 PMWith strikes like this, a lot of disruption is obviously to be expected. However, what is not acceptable is when this disruption is purposely targeted at vulnerable groups. If the story is true that pickets at Coventry really did prevent a school bus leaving the depot today to fulfil its essential duty, then I really hope their own kids suffer in the future because their learning is inconvenienced by other workers who they have got nothing to do with. It is just not fair to create that additional disruption to children, it is enough to withdraw your labour so few buses operate. It's a bloody disgrace to stop the few services that can operate from doing so.
I've worked alongside a fair few 'militant' union guys in various roles but not one of them would have justified such action against school buses not being able to run, no matter what the dispute was about. As a long term unite member, I cannot believe that the union would sanction such action and hopefully the more moderate drivers may well be persuaded to back a new pay deal because they too are disgusted by the action of a minority. Remember it just needs another 21% to vote for the deal.
Just hope national express take a hard stance against the drivers/ persons who blocked the buses going this morning
As predicted Mr Williams is on one of his beloved 82/87 brandeds on the 6 to Solihull. What an absolute prat knowing how busy buses are. I hope you get stranded in Solihull I really do. Not to mention a bit hypocritical considering earlier he didn't want them on BC routes because they will get wrecked. The 6 is totally different if course 🤣🤣
Quote from: Westy on March 22, 2023, 06:01:50 PMI'm slightly confused how depots other than the 'home' depot are operating other depots routes, eg Walsall operating the X4 ?
Thought the drivers would stay on their own depots routes?
Is this tied up with the buses being parked up 'elsewhere '?
Correct. Buses are in some cases being parked at Ring and Ride depots which have refuelling and some maintenance facilities. Non-striking drivers pick up the buses from there avoiding the need to cross picket lines.
https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/march/national-express-union-busting-harassment-hotline-launched-after-strike-intimidation/
Most passengers I've picked up today aren't exactly supportive of the NX drivers on strike
Quote from: Lukeee on March 22, 2023, 07:58:08 PMMost passengers I've picked up today aren't exactly supportive of the NX drivers on strike
After finding out they refused a 14.7% pay rise are you surprised
Personally I can see drivers slowly accepting it, most can't survive on the 70 quid unite are paying. It will be interesting to see how the public support for drivers are after this is all over.
Quote from: Lukeee on March 22, 2023, 08:05:49 PMPersonally I can see drivers slowly accepting it, most can't survive on the 70 quid unite are paying. It will be interesting to see how the public support for drivers are after this is all over.
Not so much public support for drivers, but public perception of bus services overall.
I warned about this aspect in an article on my website earlier this year:
OPINION: Strike action by bus drivers would be extremely damagingQuotePassengers have already been inconvenienced for several months where bus journeys have failed to operate due to 'driver shortages' (or as Stagecoach Midlands calls them, "circumstances beyond our control"), but multiply that onto a grander scale, where barely any journeys operate at all.
I totally get that in order to attract, recruit and retain new drivers, the bus operators have to offer a decent salary.
But on the other hand, such strike action can easily put off passengers from using bus services, and once they have found some alternative, it is always going to be difficult to attract them back again.
And equally the likes of TfWM are very keen to encourage people to stop using their cars and switch to using public transport again in order to 'save the planet' by reducing carbon emissions. But if people can't rely on public transport, then they will stick to using their own cars, which just adds to the traffic congestion and makes bus services even more unreliable.
https://wmbu.org.uk/2023/01/opinion-strike-action-by-bus-drivers-would-be-extremely-damaging/
The unions are shooting themselves - and their members - in the foot, because if revenues continue to fail to increase due to slow recovery of passenger numbers, then more services will have to be cut back, and jobs will end up being lost, if fewer buses, and therefore drivers, are required.
Sadly, I feel that there will be no winner in this dispute now.
If NX are forced to increase the pay offer, then fares may be foirced to rise along with the fact that passenger numbers are likely to fall causing fewer buses and drivers to be needed because of the strike action.
If the Union eventually have to give up the strike action without any further pay rise, then you are going to have very unhappy drivers given the fact of the amount of money they have lost already during the strike. Some drivers may wish to leave the company and find alternative employment with another company, perhaps a rival of NX. Drivers remaining will have low moral and also NX may still have to reduce bus and driver numbers.
It's amazing that if buses don't run, people do find alternatives and it may well be that they stick with that alternative when the buses do run.
I feel for everyones sake this strike needs sorting and fast!!
Quote from: cris 99 on March 22, 2023, 07:22:45 PMAs predicted Mr Williams is on one of his beloved 82/87 brandeds on the 6 to Solihull. What an absolute prat knowing how busy buses are. I hope you get stranded in Solihull I really do. Not to mention a bit hypocritical considering earlier he didn't want them on BC routes because they will get wrecked. The 6 is totally different if course 🤣🤣
Easy and far more comfortable to get back by rail 🤣
I had thought of travelling to West Midlands myself - plenty of photo opportunities which will be historic in years to come and spotting opportunities at depots (if the pickets let you pass!!)
I'm curious how a Volvo B7TL can be used on a BC route with a BC driver - not type trained?
Btw I thought the days of moaning about named individuals on this forum had passed years ago - it used to be rife!!
Quote from: cris 99 on March 22, 2023, 07:22:45 PMAs predicted Mr Williams is on one of his beloved 82/87 brandeds on the 6 to Solihull. What an absolute prat knowing how busy buses are. I hope you get stranded in Solihull I really do. Not to mention a bit hypocritical considering earlier he didn't want them on BC routes because they will get wrecked. The 6 is totally different if course 🤣🤣
Well I'm not stranded in Solihull I got a train same Bolton is out and about why don't you say something about him
Quote from: don on March 22, 2023, 09:03:59 PMEasy and far more comfortable to get back by rail 🤣
I'm curious how a Volvo B7TL can be used on a BC route with a BC driver - not type trained?
Same cab as a B5LH which BC operate
Quote from: Tony on March 22, 2023, 09:05:33 PMSame cab as a B5LH which BC operate
Cheers - I hadn't thought of that - surely a different operating characteristic though? Seems an odd choice when E400s or MMCs are available though.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 03:05:27 PMAndy has commented at last
https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1638553185164967936?t=LFFdthqGf0OSMjOaiEeomg&s=19
Though it pains me to say so, that's a good tweet. Well balanced for a politician.
@cris 99
@Busses_transport_ knock it on the head the pair of you !
Quote from: winston on March 22, 2023, 09:58:14 PM@cris 99 @Busses_transport_ knock it on the head the pair of you !
Thank goodness for your post
@winston Some people just don't seem to realise that quite a few people on this forum are bus enthusiasts, not drivers or other public transport employees. People come at this from different points of view.
This is a friendly forum and should not be used as a platform for personal attacks. People are entitled to their opinion but if it firms a personal attack then it has no place on here.
Fir what it's worth anyone who has a valid pass or pays a valid ticket is able to board and ride on any bus , covid do not travel laws do nit exist anymore
Quote from: Steveminor on March 22, 2023, 10:16:36 PMThis is a friendly forum and should not be used as a platform for personal attacks. People are entitled to their opinion but if it firms a personal attack then it has no place on here.
Fir what it's worth anyone who has a valid pass or pays a valid ticket is able to board and ride on any bus , covid do not travel laws do nit exist anymore
Some buses i've seen the last few day have not been as packed as you'd expect them to be. I saw a 4 heading out of Solihull this evening and only looked to be half full, at that time of day would have expected it to be rammed considering the reduced service.
I'd guess some people probably have found alternatives as well, rather than relying on the reduced service. And also say for people who previously used to 2 routes to get to the 4, they are probably unable to do that as well now.
What's difficult about the statement 'Don't travel unless necessary '?
If this strike is still on at the weekend, I won't be going out on a bus on Saturday or Sunday!
From the top of my head, the next time I need to go to Walsall, is Easter weekend when my Swift card runs out, & even then I can hang on for 2 weeks, as I'm off until the week after!
(Even booked my birthday off !)
I live 5 minutes from an Asda.
I can do online shopping.
I've got takeaways within walking distance.
I'm sorted!
Quote from: 2206 on March 22, 2023, 10:23:07 PMSome buses i've seen the last few day have not been as packed as you'd expect them to be. I saw a 4 heading out of Solihull this evening and only looked to be half full, at that time of day would have expected it to be rammed considering the reduced service.
I'd guess some people probably have found alternatives as well, rather than relying on the reduced service. And also say for people who previously used to 2 routes to get to the 4, they are probably unable to do that as well now.
I'd suspect that even on the routes running a skeleton service a lot of people aren't bothering to chance it. It looks like a lottery, with long gaps in service, not all buses running or running very late, not helped by buses being prevented from leaving garages.
I've reverted to COVID ways of working, working 100% from home this week. I'd imagine others who are able to, and don't have the option of a local train station, are doing the same.
QuoteWhat's difficult about the statement 'Don't travel unless necessary '?
If this strike is still on at the weekend, I won't be going out on a bus on Saturday or Sunday!
From the top of my head, the next time I need to go to Walsall, is Easter weekend when my Swift card runs out, & even then I can hang on for 2 weeks, as I'm off until the week after!
(Even booked my birthday off !)
I live 5 minutes from an Asda.
I can do online shopping.
I've got takeaways within walking distance.
I'm sorted!
If you got alternatives it doesn't matter then
Quote from: 2206 on March 22, 2023, 10:23:07 PMSome buses i've seen the last few day have not been as packed as you'd expect them to be. I saw a 4 heading out of Solihull this evening and only looked to be half full, at that time of day would have expected it to be rammed considering the reduced service.
I'd guess some people probably have found alternatives as well, rather than relying on the reduced service. And also say for people who previously used to 2 routes to get to the 4, they are probably unable to do that as well now.
Every X21 I've been on has been full, sometimes with people standing upstairs too. I agree that some people have made alternative arrangements though, otherwise it could've been worse.
Seems buses being prevented from Perry Barr garage which is affecting 28 and X4 this morning.
Only 3 buses in coventry runs at the moment lets hope its not another day where unite cost the police hundreds of pounds to deal with strikers again
9,27,28
https://twitter.com/nxcoventry/status/1638790719434555392?t=iMISt1AzesLwU9n6rT0Zyw&s=19
Quote from: BrumKev86 on March 23, 2023, 06:46:21 AMSeems buses being prevented from Perry Barr garage which is affecting 28 and X4 this morning.
This is getting silly now, I thought these services were agreed before the strike started so why are these being prevented from leaving garage
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 23, 2023, 07:14:51 AMThis is getting silly now, I thought these services were agreed before the strike started so why are these being prevented from leaving garage
Unite seem to make the rules as they go along
There waiting till the public snap then they can say drivers deserve a better pay rise
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 23, 2023, 07:14:51 AMThis is getting silly now, I thought these services were agreed before the strike started so why are these being prevented from leaving garage
Its interesting that expert opinion on this thread previously suggested only cowboy bus operators wouldn't recognise a union, yet here with are with the union behaving in a 'cowboy' manner !
Quote from: metrocity on March 23, 2023, 07:44:15 AMIts interesting that expert opinion on this thread previously suggested only cowboy bus operators wouldn't recognise a union, yet here with are with the union behaving in a 'cowboy' manner !
Maybe they have the common sense to know that unions are nothing but kids who if they cant get there own way have hissy fits and make peoples lifes super hard
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 07:47:22 AMMaybe they have the common sense to know that unions are nothing but kids who if they cant get there own way have hissy fits and make peoples lifes super hard
I think the union has backed itself into a corner and doesn't want to admit it because then unite will look stupid. And if the scenes outside of my garage BC are anything to go by then it's just one bouncy castle away from being a circus let alone a picket line
Quote from: dw1308 on March 23, 2023, 08:01:27 AMI think the union has backed itself into a corner and doesn't want to admit it because then unite will look stupid. And if the scenes outside of my garage BC are anything to go by then it's just one bouncy castle away from being a circus let alone a picket line
They have blocked coventry again only letting hospital buses out.
how long till people turn up and start forcing them to move out of the way?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 08:32:54 AMCovs turn to have the police called i take it 🤬
Nx need a good hard look at some of there staff
why please explain, i didnt see anything wrong with there actions, i saw the police taking the piss
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 22, 2023, 02:15:57 PMTheres a diamond driver who said
"All I can say is, if NX drivers were abused before the strike, wait until they go back to work."
just hope its not a sign of things to come for nx drivers
sick rates will go up and folks will leave simples
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 08:18:06 AMwhy please explain, i didnt see anything wrong with there actions, i saw the police taking the piss
Blocking non union members from working
Blocking the road thats against the rules of picket lines
Pushing a law enforcement officer
Read a lot of peoples answers on here, what surprises me most is not getting behind your fellow workers, not a bus driver myself but my company was on strike last year I attended the picket line many times, supported the strike 100%, if u stick to together & fight like they did in Liverpool you will win this war with management.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 08:26:45 AMBlocking non union members from working
Blocking the road thats against the rules of picket lines
Pushing a law enforcement officer
Where's the Police when members of the public block main corridors in there cars AND park where ever THINKING hazard lights is an excuse, On many occasions they the police drive by not bothered, anti social behaviour on buses no show.
picket lines easy day for police but to challenge members of the public that's a different ball game entirley
Its been very civilised affair down here at West Bromwich garage, The MD of NX David Bradford came down to talk to drivers but mainly listen to our concerns going forwards, The lack of restrooms he clearly understood, lack of communications is a major issue at NX that was made abundantly clear, far too many issues to list but credit to him David spent a good 45 minutes with the drivers.
May be going forward there should be more meetings with boardroom members and its drivers and may be avoid this type of action in future, i blame the predecessors for a lot the mess we are in.
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 09:04:25 AMIts been very civilised affair down here at West Bromwich garage, The MD of NX David Bradford came down to talk to drivers but mainly listen to our concerns going forwards, The lack of restrooms he clearly understood, lack of communications is a major issue at NX that was made abundantly clear, far too many issues to list but credit to him David spent a good 45 minutes with the drivers.
May be going forward there should be more meetings with boardroom members and its drivers and may be avoid this type of action in future, i blame the predecessors for a lot the mess we are in.
why are the bus drivers the BAD GUYS in this strike, last week junior doctors strike 175,000 appointments cancelled, AMBULANCE strike thousands of non urgent calls make your own way, TEACHERS STRIKE didn't that affect children's education.
2020 who kept the NHS MOVING, how many drivers died all forgotten.
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 09:16:46 AMwhy are the bus drivers the BAD GUYS in this strike, last week junior doctors strike 175,000 appointments cancelled, AMBULANCE strike thousands of non urgent calls make your own way, TEACHERS STRIKE didn't that affect children's education.
2020 who kept the NHS MOVING, how many drivers died all forgotten.
Because i dont see any of the above blocking others from doing there jobs!
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 09:23:07 AMBecause i dont see any of the above blocking others from doing there jobs!
Is that all you can see , arent the teachers blocking childrens education, arent the juniors doctors blocking access to health care Possible delays in spotting cancer etc etc, arent the ambulance staff blocking access to the NHS for those without transport
PN 6941 on the YW 6 today.
Also 6884 parked at Solihull Station with an inspector sat watching it for some reason.
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 09:16:46 AMwhy are the bus drivers the BAD GUYS in this strike, last week junior doctors strike 175,000 appointments cancelled, AMBULANCE strike thousands of non urgent calls make your own way, TEACHERS STRIKE didn't that affect children's education.
2020 who kept the NHS MOVING, how many drivers died all forgotten.
Because you have had (and rejected) a 14.3% pay deal.
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 08:18:06 AMwhy please explain, i didnt see anything wrong with there actions, i saw the police taking the piss
Which police?
It is illegal for pickets to block access to a site for vehicular access. It is illegal to bully working staff, one Wolverhampton driver had coffee thrown over her yesterday. It is illegal to picket anywhere other than you own place of work. There were bus spotters in the picket line at Coventry
Quote from: Tony on March 23, 2023, 11:29:41 AMThere were bus spotters in the picket line at Coventry
Where is the mentality in that?! I'm surprised they wasn't asked to leave or escorted away
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 09:04:25 AMIts been very civilised affair down here at West Bromwich garage, The MD of NX David Bradford came down to talk to drivers but mainly listen to our concerns going forwards, The lack of restrooms he clearly understood, lack of communications is a major issue at NX that was made abundantly clear, far too many issues to list but credit to him David spent a good 45 minutes with the drivers.
May be going forward there should be more meetings with boardroom members and its drivers and may be avoid this type of action in future, i blame the predecessors for a lot the mess we are in.
Lack of rest rooms how is that a NX issue surely if a driver on the 74 needed toilet surely there are toilets at the bus stations which come under TFWM responsibility, but if it is on routes then it would be relevant council such as Dudley, Sandwell, Walsall and Birmingham council.
But a lot of public toilets have closed due anti social behaviour such as people using them for other things than they was used for.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 23, 2023, 12:29:39 PMLack of rest rooms how is that a NX issue surely if a driver on the 74 needed toilet surely there are toilets at the bus stations which come under TFWM responsibility, but if it is on routes then it would be relevant council such as Dudley, Sandwell, Walsall and Birmingham council.
But a lot of public toilets have closed due anti social behaviour such as people using them for other things than they was used for.
Adequate facilities including restrooms for employees is a NX issue. It is specifically cited in the letter, embedded in this tweet, to drivers from management:
https://twitter.com/HeartMidsNews/status/1638852992248979459
Anyone know if the meetings between unite and nx has happened today
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 01:35:52 PMAnyone know if the meetings between unite and nx has happened today
Today's not over yet.
Union have agreed to strongly recommend the new offer
...
Quote from: jag1123 on March 23, 2023, 03:03:26 PM16.2% increase is part of the new offer
How much will bus fare rise if they accept
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 03:26:39 PMHow much will bus fare rise if they accept
As much as I don't want the fares to increase , it's is about time they was to go up witg increase in petrol and parts etc
Quote from: Tony on March 23, 2023, 03:01:31 PMUnion have agreed to strongly recommend the new offer
Any idea when we will find out of they accept or reject it
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 03:34:23 PMAny idea when we will find out of they accept or reject it
Saturday, normal service Sunday if accepted
QuoteAny idea when we will find out of they accept or reject it
This is just me speculating but I'm sure everything will be back to normal from next week, if they start voting from tomorrow and announce the result on Sunday, for a Monday start
Edit: Looks like I wasn't too far off.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 01:35:52 PMAnyone know if the meetings between unite and nx has happened today
I would say so... NOW hopefully this is the end of all this misery! https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/national-express-offer-162-drivers-26543578?
Quote from: Jack6101 on March 23, 2023, 03:32:56 PMAs much as I don't want the fares to increase , it's is about time they was to go up witg increase in petrol and parts etc
But passenger numbers are falling and if fares go up passengers numbers will fall even more which means West Midlands Travel won't need as many drivers meaning job losses and longer waiting between buses arriving at stops and could lead to garage closures and selling of buses.
This has posted on the Birmingham Mail blog. (https://i2-prod.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article26543580.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/0_NX-new-offer.jpg)
Impression is both sides have come to their senses. Normal services tomorrow?
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 23, 2023, 03:56:47 PMThis has posted on the Birmingham Mail blog. (https://i2-prod.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article26543580.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/0_NX-new-offer.jpg)
Impression is both sides have come to their senses. Normal services tomorrow?
They need to vote on it right so if they accept it should be somewhat normal monday
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 23, 2023, 03:56:47 PMThis has posted on the Birmingham Mail blog. (https://i2-prod.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article26543580.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/0_NX-new-offer.jpg)
Impression is both sides have come to their senses. Normal services tomorrow?
No, the strike will continue tomorrow and Saturday while the deal is voted on. If accepted, then possibly Sunday but more likely Monday normal services will resume.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 23, 2023, 03:55:54 PMBut passenger numbers are falling and if fares go up passengers numbers will fall even more which means West Midlands Travel won't need as many drivers meaning job losses and longer waiting between buses arriving at stops and could lead to garage closures and selling of buses.
That penny is yet to drop in certain quarters...
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 23, 2023, 04:31:46 PMNo, the strike will continue tomorrow and Saturday while the deal is voted on. If accepted, then possibly Sunday but more likely Monday normal services will resume.
Service cuts and PVR reductions to follow 70 days from Monday then ?
Quote from: metrocity on March 23, 2023, 04:34:48 PMService cuts and PVR reductions to follow 70 days from Monday then ?
If the srikes continues i won't be surprised
I think it will be too close to call when drivers vote either this weekend or early next week.
If Coventry garage was happy last time I can see the whole garage been satisfied this time.
Friend just caught a taxi from West Bromwich to Friar Park Uber charged £15.00
These firms are ripping off passengers
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 23, 2023, 05:15:15 PMFriend just caught a taxi from West Bromwich to Friar Park Uber charged £15.00
These firms are ripping off passengers
Uber is not fixed fare like unlike taxis
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/national-express-offer-162-drivers-26543578.amp
If revised deal accepted normal service should resume next week
Is it unreasonable to expect those striking drivers who plan to accept this deal on Saturday to turn up to work tomorrow as normal? I certainly don't think so. After all, they have a deal they are happy with so no need to continue striking.
This would go a long way to building bridges with passengers too as it would be good press to go back to work on mass tomorrow now they have a workable offer. Also, I'm sure this may go somewhat to rebuilding relations with both sides at NX with a bit of give or take.
I hope common sense prevails now and a decent service can be offered tomorrow and for the weekend and then back to normal on Monday.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 23, 2023, 05:11:22 PMI think it will be too close to call when drivers vote either this weekend or early next week.
If Coventry garage was happy last time I can see the whole garage been satisfied this time.
Anyone who votes against this deal seriously needs their head looking at.
If the 32% of drivers who didn't bother to vote last weekend turn up this time, it should be an easy win.
Voting is Friday and Saturday closing at 12.00 on Saturday then counting will take place if a yes vote drivers will probably return to work Sunday
With a higher inflation rate meaning higher mortgages more drivers will probably vote yes to go back to work
This is my personal opinion
16.2% rise is insane. Look forward to seeing fares increase and the number of fare dodgers rise rapidly
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 23, 2023, 06:10:16 PM16.2% rise is insane. Look forward to seeing fares increase and the number of fare dodgers rise rapidly
I can see tickets going up by about £2-3 in September if they accept
They'll have to speak to Mr Andy Street to raise the fares as they've agreed to freeze them until 2025.
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2021-07-15/west-midlands-bus-prices-to-be-among-lowest-fares-in-the-country
Can't the run a Sunday service from tommorow till Monday ? Help get midlands running
Quote from: Jack6101 on March 23, 2023, 06:20:15 PMCan't the run a Sunday service from tommorow till Monday ? Help get midlands running
With what drivers? I mean I'm still doing garage training so not allowed to go out into service but given half a chance I would be out in service
Quote from: ellspurs on March 23, 2023, 06:17:42 PMThey'll have to speak to Mr Andy Street to raise the fares as they've agreed to freeze them until 2025.
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2021-07-15/west-midlands-bus-prices-to-be-among-lowest-fares-in-the-country
If andy street says no could we be seeing the beginning of the end for national express bus
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 23, 2023, 06:15:58 PMI can see tickets going up by about £2-3 in September if they accept
I cannot see a short hop fare costing £3.50 or a day ticket £7 anytime soon!!!
The 16.2% rise equates to about £2.20 an hour per average driver (plus extra company NI contributions so say £2.70 cost per hour to the company). Therefore, the routes operated by the drivers will need to make that extra amount per hour to keep the status quo as now.
£2.70 is about 3 passengers an hour extra per bus they would need to cover this increase - it doesn't need massive fare increases to cover the shortfall. With ridership still down 15-20% compared to pre-COVID times, there can be reasonable hope that those extra passengers can be found by those 15-20% returning to bus travel (obviously providing there is a reliable service).
Obviously the more low margin routes may be more challenging to cover this required increase but hopefully the government will continue necessary funding for operators so that passenger increases in future years can then cover this.
Quote from: metrocity on March 23, 2023, 04:34:48 PMService cuts and PVR reductions to follow 70 days from Monday then ?
Yes...back to normal!
If we go back to work what will you all have to moan and whing at next
Oh and the bullshit
Quote from: ellspurs on March 23, 2023, 06:17:42 PMThey'll have to speak to Mr Andy Street to raise the fares as they've agreed to freeze them until 2025.
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2021-07-15/west-midlands-bus-prices-to-be-among-lowest-fares-in-the-country
Something will have to give.
Everything else has been going up in price in line with inflation, yet TfWM "expect" bus fares to stay the same until 2025.
It's just not "sustainable", to quote an oft-used expression.
It costs more to run a bus service now than it did a year ago, yet bus operators are expected to keep their businesses viable with the same number of passengers paying the same prices as last year.
Government subsidies will only go so far and for so long, it is inevitable that bus fare/pass prices will have to increase soon, otherwise we will see further service reductions or withdrawals.
The Unite union throughout this strike action have painted this image via the media that NX Bus is an "extremely wealthy company" that is "raking in millions of pounds of profit" when that is materially untrue.
NX Bus are in just as much of a precarious situation as Diamond Bus are.
I've just read a comment elsewhere from a female bus driver who reckons the majority will say yes to this offer but if the terms and conditions are not implemented in July like they promise then they will strike again.
Quote from: Stu on March 23, 2023, 07:13:57 PMSomething will have to give.
Everything else has been going up in price in line with inflation, yet TfWM "expect" bus fares to stay the same until 2025.
It's just not "sustainable", to quote an oft-used expression.
It costs more to run a bus service now than it did a year ago, yet bus operators are expected to keep their businesses viable with the same number of passengers paying the same prices as last year.
Government subsidies will only go so far and for so long, it is inevitable that bus fare/pass prices will have to increase soon, otherwise we will see further service reductions or withdrawals.
The Unite union throughout this strike action have painted this image via the media that NX Bus is an "extremely wealthy company" that is "raking in millions of pounds of profit" when that is materially untrue.
NX Bus are in just as much of a precarious situation as Diamond Bus are.
It's the same for Arriva group who are losing money. The unions see corporate figures but they don't look at the individual subisdry figures ie Midland Fox.
Nx writing off any chance of winning tenders then. Dangerous waters given the current situation
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 23, 2023, 08:12:16 PMNx writing off any chance of winning tenders then. Dangerous waters given the current situation
So how did the just win the new 144 then?
Quote from: PB50 on March 23, 2023, 07:17:41 PMI've just read a comment elsewhere from a female bus driver who reckons the majority will say yes to this offer but if the terms and conditions are not implemented in July like they promise then they will strike again.
That sounds perfectly fair and reasonable to me.
Quote from: Tony on March 23, 2023, 08:19:26 PMSo how did the just win the new 144 then?
And how did you lose basically the entire of the midlands tenders??
The winning of the 144 doesn't cover the losses of the 17,22,28 and the rest of them
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 23, 2023, 08:54:39 PMAnd how did you lose basically the entire of the midlands tenders??
The winning of the 144 doesn't cover the losses of the 17,22,28 and the rest of them
If you look at January NX won most of the tenders they put in.
This deal will go through no issues, just the formality of voting etc , drivers at West Brom ready to return from Saturday evening. People still see headline figures 16% still got 12 hour split shifts paid only currently 7hrs 36 till July then about 8hrs 50ish max i believe wait and see on that. split shifts are costly to drivers having to return home and travel back etc still unpaid breaks too. But nah what does average joe blogs care all they will see is bus wanker got 16%
Quote from: Tony on March 23, 2023, 11:29:41 AMWhich police?
It is illegal for pickets to block access to a site for vehicular access. It is illegal to bully working staff, one Wolverhampton driver had coffee thrown over her yesterday. It is illegal to picket anywhere other than you own place of work. There were bus spotters in the picket line at Coventry
you know what Tony 1st world PROBLEMS really most of this stuff is, couldn't care less about picket line laws , cant condone the coffee incident by a colleague, i could moan and moan about the police and the rotten state of public services but who cares, the MET police been rotten for years. As for bus spotters apparently that woman who got arrested yesterday thats what she does i,m told
It's going to take NXWM and NXC a lot to win back passengers after this and how will they do this?
Because some people will see its time to now bring buses back into public ownership and let local authority decided which services are operated by which operator and the level of fare paid.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 24, 2023, 06:45:12 AMIt's going to take NXWM and NXC a lot to win back passengers after this and how will they do this?
Because some people will see its time to now bring buses back into public ownership and let local authority decided which services are operated by which operator and the level of fare paid.
They have alot if work to do to build back trust it doesn't help with drivers saying if nx dont do what they say by june/july that they will stike again
Quote from: 2900 on March 23, 2023, 11:30:29 PMyou know what Tony 1st world PROBLEMS really most of this stuff is, couldn't care less about picket line laws , cant condone the coffee incident by a colleague, i could moan and moan about the police and the rotten state of public services but who cares, the MET police been rotten for years. As for bus spotters apparently that woman who got arrested yesterday thats what she does i,m told
Another incident the police attended was when a council enforcement officer was surrounded by pickets and made him feel so threatened the police attended. Isn't this exactly the type of behaviour you were complaining about drivers facing as one of the reasons for the strike?
Quote from: Tony on March 24, 2023, 07:08:20 AMAnother incident the police attended was when a council enforcement officer was surrounded by pickets and made him feel so threatened the police attended. Isn't this exactly the type of behaviour you were complaining about drivers facing as one of the reasons for the strike?
If drivers are doing that on official picket lines whats going on in the depot or when there dealing with customers who are being obnoxious?
Quote from: Tony on March 24, 2023, 07:08:20 AMAnother incident the police attended was when a council enforcement officer was surrounded by pickets and made him feel so threatened the police attended. Isn't this exactly the type of behaviour you were complaining about drivers facing as one of the reasons for the strike?
Tony i cant condone the actions of those picketers but as usual a small minority spoil it for the majority, i will say West Bromwich garage management have praised the good nature of there drivers on the picket line, Management even helping us clear up our rubbish to be commended as well, the only incident of note was Tuesday a 10/15 minute stand off at the entrance gate, no police involved at any point. The police waved and thumbs up as they pass us outside the garage.
With this new pay offer from NX, applications from new drivers will go through the roof, i have many friends at Diamond bus who were waiting for the out come who will apply in due course.
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 24, 2023, 07:19:31 AMIf drivers are doing that on official picket lines whats going on in the depot or when there dealing with customers who are being obnoxious?
Nothing goes on at depots majority of drivers after there duties just wanna get out of there, when dealing with obnoxious customers driver is normally on there own in the bus. These picket line incidents you can put down to pack/gang type behaviour no different to group of rowdy girls/boys boarding a bus, on there own quite as a mouse.
Lot more buses in town today on the 51 service. Seen 5 in the last half hour in Bridge St.
Would it be fair to say the anticipation of the bonfire of tickets may now get underway and the LFZ scrapped with the Govt funding ending soon and the way above inflation pay rise that drivers have wrangled out of NX? I can imagine most operators will be happy to get rid of the LFZ as I can't see how it is viable for £3 or £11 for a week which covers such a large area especially given today's costs compared to when they were introduced
Quote from: 2900 on March 24, 2023, 08:54:58 AMNothing goes on at depots majority of drivers after there duties just wanna get out of there, when dealing with obnoxious customers driver is normally on there own in the bus. These picket line incidents you can put down to pack/gang type behaviour no different to group of rowdy girls/boys boarding a bus, on there own quite as a mouse.
Does not excuse behaviour like chucking a cup of coffee over a colleague who has decided to work though, or adopting the same behaviour displayed by some passengers on Birmingham buses late at night on a Friday/Saturday when they've had far too many sherbets.
Most striking drivers probably have not picketed though, and there will be some wanting to get back to work...for a break!!!
Quote from: bususer12 on March 24, 2023, 01:36:47 PMWould it be fair to say the anticipation of the bonfire of tickets may now get underway and the LFZ scrapped with the Govt funding ending soon and the way above inflation pay rise that drivers have wrangled out of NX? I can imagine most operators will be happy to get rid of the LFZ as I can't see how it is viable for £3 or £11 for a week which covers such a large area especially given today's costs compared to when they were introduced
I think that is certain. One thing West Midlands bus passengers have discovered this last week is what people in Greater Manchester, Merseyside. South Yorkshire and most of the country have known for decades, the pass you buy from your local bus operator does not mean you can use every bus!
Getting rid of the LFZ may help with tackling some of the fare dodging too, for example by removing the ability of one buying a Walsall LFZ Daysaver and chancing it past the Scott Arms all the way into Birmingham. You cant have Revenue Protection doing the same spots all the time as the regular dodgers do get wise to it.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 24, 2023, 01:53:19 PMI think that is certain. One thing West Midlands bus passengers have discovered this last week is what people in Greater Manchester, Merseyside. South Yorkshire and most of the country have known for decades, the pass you buy from your local bus operator does not mean you can use every bus!
Getting rid of the LFZ may help with tackling some of the fare dodging too, for example by removing the ability of one buying a Walsall LFZ Daysaver and chancing it past the Scott Arms all the way into Birmingham. You cant have Revenue Protection doing the same spots all the time as the regular dodgers do get wise to it.
Ok then, what do people do who only require LEGALLY travel within the Lfz, who don't try to chance it at the boundary?
Does this mean we now have to have a regional pass / ticket whether we want one or not?
(Speaking as someone who uses a Walsall Nbus ticket, who does all his travel within the zone & rarely goes outside the boundary!)
Quote from: Westy on March 24, 2023, 02:27:25 PMOk then, what do people do who only require LEGALLY travel within the Lfz, who don't try to chance it at the boundary?
Does this mean we now have to have a regional pass / ticket whether we want one or not?
(Speaking as someone who uses a Walsall Nbus ticket, who does all his travel within the zone & rarely goes outside the boundary!)
I would see it as a single is a single, a day ticket is a day ticket, someone who lives in Solihull for example has to buy a Regional Daysaver even if they are only doing local journeys. Whether we like it or not, the simplest fare system is a daily/weekly/monthly capping based on number of journeys irrespective of where they are taken (Oyster).
It's interesting reading the comments of Diamond's post thanking their driver's for keeping the West Midlands moving! Quite a few people saying they'll be using Diamond more from now on.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=598851962261322&set=a.230844239062098&type=3&app=fbl
Quote from: Michael Bevan on March 24, 2023, 04:47:41 PMIt's interesting reading the comments of Diamond's post thanking their driver's for keeping the West Midlands moving! Quite a few people saying they'll be using Diamond more from now on.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=598851962261322&set=a.230844239062098&type=3&app=fbl
It's been a long hard work the drivers do deserve thanking hopefully NX can learn from this going forward and do this kind of thanks.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 24, 2023, 05:09:32 PMIt's been a long hard work the drivers do deserve thanking hopefully NX can learn from this going forward and do this kind of thanks.
Very stressful waiting for the fresh samosas to be delivered but worth it
Quote from: Michael Bevan on March 24, 2023, 04:47:41 PMIt's interesting reading the comments of Diamond's post thanking their driver's for keeping the West Midlands moving! Quite a few people saying they'll be using Diamond more from now on.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=598851962261322&set=a.230844239062098&type=3&app=fbl
Can't access that link.
Quote from: Westy on March 24, 2023, 09:02:17 PMCan't access that link.
I'm not on Facebook but it still works for me
Quote from: Mike K on March 24, 2023, 09:23:42 PMI'm not on Facebook but it still works for me
It says 'Content not available at this time'.
(In fact, I can't find Diamond Bus Midlands itself by searching on Facebook, I found Midland Classic & Diamond North West though)
They have blocked you then, must've had enough of the complaining.
Quote from: Marge559 on March 24, 2023, 10:56:46 PMThey have blocked you then, must've had enough of the complaining.
I normally do my Diamond 'complaining' as you put it, on Twitter & I'm still on there!
At 11 posts, do you have the authority to moan at my own posts?
Yes as I choose not to fill this forum with rubbish! The point is, a customer focussed company like Diamond WM would not block somebody without good reason, they are not a cowboy builder on trustpilot.
Quote from: Westy on March 24, 2023, 11:09:55 PMI normally do my Diamond 'complaining' as you put it, on Twitter & I'm still on there!
At 11 posts, do you have the authority to moan at my own posts?
It's a former member back under a different Alias.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on March 24, 2023, 01:42:55 PMDoes not excuse behaviour like chucking a cup of coffee over a colleague who has decided to work though, or adopting the same behaviour displayed by some passengers on Birmingham buses late at night on a Friday/Saturday when they've had far too many sherbets.
Most striking drivers probably have not picketed though, and there will be some wanting to get back to work...for a break!!!
if you look at my earlier posts you'll find i didn't condone the actions of minority who basically spoil it for all, as for drivers picketing i cant speak for other garages at West Brom the majority turned up at various times through out the day. The reps had a register of folks turning up to sign.
Quote from: Westy on March 24, 2023, 10:26:20 PMIt says 'Content not available at this time'.
(In fact, I can't find Diamond Bus Midlands itself by searching on Facebook, I found Midland Classic & Diamond North West though)
You're not missing much, its the same as posted on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/diamondbuses/status/1639148795467530240
Quote from: Stu on March 25, 2023, 08:48:06 AMYou're not missing much, its the same as posted on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/diamondbuses/status/1639148795467530240
Oh, I've seen that.
If I'm supposedly blocked from Diamond Fb, can't think what I've said to be so!
Last time I looked, they stopped you starting your own threads on there!
With little under a hour till voting closes.
Will it be a close ballot ie 48% for to 52% against or will it be a straight forward no deal.
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 25, 2023, 11:23:13 AMWith little under a hour till voting closes.
Will it be a close ballot ie 48% for to 52% against or will it be a straight forward no deal.
Don't think it will be either
Quote from: Ginger66 on March 25, 2023, 11:23:13 AMWith little under a hour till voting closes.
Will it be a close ballot ie 48% for to 52% against or will it be a straight forward no deal.
What makes you think it's not going to be accepted? All the signs are that it will be accepted, and that's what Unite are strongly recommending. I'd be shocked if it wasn't.
Quote from: Mike K on March 25, 2023, 11:34:51 AMWhat makes you think it's not going to be accepted? All the signs are that it will be accepted, and that's what Unite are strongly recommending. I'd be shocked if it wasn't.
Did unite not recommended the first offer?
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on March 25, 2023, 11:45:12 AMDid unite not recommended the first offer?
No:
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2023/03/22/west-midlands-mayor-urges-national-express-and-unite-to-agree-end-to-bus-strikes/
Quote from: Tony on March 25, 2023, 11:29:40 AMDon't think it will be either
I assume there will be statement issued later today
@Tony?
Deal has gone thru
Quote from: Tony on March 25, 2023, 12:43:15 PMApprox 85% acceptance
great news what sort of service will it be on sunday thank you
Quote from: metrocity on March 25, 2023, 12:34:23 PMDeal has gone thru
Let's hope both parties keep to their part of the deal.
Whilst it's great that this appears to have been resolved, it won't change the fact that there's still driver shortages, right?
Will this make it easier or harder to employ more drivers? Given the fact that it will cost NX more to do so now.
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 25, 2023, 01:26:04 PMWhilst it's great that this appears to have been resolved, it won't change the fact that there's still driver shortages, right?
Will this make it easier or harder to employ more drivers? Given the fact that it will cost NX more to do so now.
I think that has been answered in the news already. 392 applications in a week was the news story
Quote from: Tony on March 25, 2023, 12:43:15 PMApprox 85% acceptance
15% still weren't happy? :undecided:
Quote from: Stu on March 25, 2023, 01:29:39 PM15% still weren't happy? :undecided:
Or didn't vote is my guess
Non votes dont count as rejection.
Makes you wonder if company had offered this in the first place..... ?
Quote from: Tony on March 25, 2023, 01:29:09 PMI think that has been answered in the news already. 392 applications in a week was the news story
Okay, that is good news.
New drivers will be on what top rate drivers were on before November 2022 £13.70ish which is very good news for retention, gives us older drivers hope normal service can resume, last 18 months been a joke with the lack of drivers majority left for the trucks, it was no fun being informed you got no relief with a bus full of passengers and it was a daily thing for most drivers.
How could it be right new driver gets £11.80 an hour with all that responsability , etc then you have supermarket staff getting £12 an hour etc for stacking shelves.
Quote from: Solo1 on March 25, 2023, 12:48:39 PMgreat news what sort of service will it be on sunday thank you
Reduced service though exactly which services will run remains to be seen.
David Bradford sent an email out to drivers saying the lack of rest room facilities at relief points will be looked at again, fingers crossed. Great many things on the to do list lets see what happens.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 25, 2023, 01:55:30 PMReduced service though exactly which services will run remains to be seen.
Normal Sunday service tomorrow, my day off volunteered to come in fully expect grief
Quote from: 2900 on March 25, 2023, 02:06:11 PMNormal Sunday service tomorrow, my day off volunteered to come in fully expect grief
I thought it was a 'reduced' Sunday service tomorrow
Quote from: 2900 on March 25, 2023, 02:01:39 PMDavid Bradford sent an email out to drivers saying the lack of rest room facilities at relief points will be looked at again, fingers crossed. Great many things on the to do list lets see what happens.
Didn't NX use an old metro once as a mobile rest room at Merry Hill Centre.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 25, 2023, 02:15:10 PMI thought it was a 'reduced' Sunday service tomorrow
It is. Normal service starts Monday.
Yes, they did. A mark one if I recall.
Quote from: 2900 on March 25, 2023, 01:50:20 PMNew drivers will be on what top rate drivers were on before November 2022 £13.70ish which is very good news for retention, gives us older drivers hope normal service can resume, last 18 months been a joke with the lack of drivers majority left for the trucks, it was no fun being informed you got no relief with a bus full of passengers and it was a daily thing for most drivers.
How could it be right new driver gets £11.80 an hour with all that responsability , etc then you have supermarket staff getting £12 an hour etc for stacking shelves.
Which supermarkets are these?
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 25, 2023, 02:55:16 PMIt is. Normal service starts Monday.
Normal Sunday service from pensnett
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 25, 2023, 02:56:01 PMYes, they did. A mark one if I recall.
Dp metrobus timesaver livery for covid rest room
Quote from: 2900 on March 25, 2023, 02:06:11 PMNormal Sunday service tomorrow, my day off volunteered to come in fully expect grief
NX website is saying 4, 5, the two 6s, 28, 51, 59, 87, 97, 529, X4, X21 will run on the morning of the 26th March. Not sure whether that will change or normal service starts Monday?
Strike action | NX Bus West Midlands (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action)
Well, my sister is on nights starting tomorrow, for a few nights, so looks like a taxi for her tomorrow, seeing WA 9 isn't on the reduced list.
Quote from: 2206 on March 25, 2023, 03:45:40 PMNX website is saying 4, 5, the two 6s, 28, 51, 59, 87, 97, 529, X4, X21 will run on the morning of the 26th March. Not sure whether that will change or normal service starts Monday?
Strike action | NX Bus West Midlands (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action)
A whole new definition to the word 'reduced', with the strike finishing at Midnight I was expecting better than that !
Quote from: winston on March 25, 2023, 03:41:37 PMAldi
An exception to the rule. Hardly the going rate in general for shelf stackers.
My question now is, was strike action really worth it/necessary? I'm not underestimating the 2% improvement on the pay offer but surely that could've been reached with further negotiation last week without resorting to an all out strike...
Quote from: MasterPlan on March 25, 2023, 04:27:59 PMAn exception to the rule. Hardly the going rate in general for shelf stackers.
I agree. You can't quote £12 an hour and say that's the going rate across the board. Personally think this 16% pay rise is ludicrous.
It looks like the so called 'reduced Sunday timetable' is no different to the skeleton timetables from this week, I can't see tomorrows passengers standing for this ! [color=var(--blue-link)]https://nxbus.co.uk/west.../service-updates/strike-action[/color] (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/service-updates/strike-action?fbclid=IwAR3TMO6ugCy0P6a5QL9z9QO7aOZLXaZdUOx5Wu5P5ZTgoLW28vZCsvXIOXE)
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 25, 2023, 05:17:11 PMI can't see tomorrows passengers standing for this !
They'll have to stand for it, or find an alternative for one more day I guess. As they've basically told you normal service from Monday.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 25, 2023, 04:22:07 PMA whole new definition to the word 'reduced', with the strike finishing at Midnight I was expecting better than that !
It's because the duty rosta would be based on the number of drivers known to be available, as that would be drawn up before the result of the ballot.
Pensnett running a proper Sunday service drivers even got to book on for late nights
To all those saying the pay increase is ridiculous, just thought I'd point out that minimum wage is increasing by almost 10% (£9.50 to £10.42). Then you have inflation on top of that, and you have the fact that the effective top rate for NX is £10.80 per hour including non driving time.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 25, 2023, 05:10:17 PMI agree. You can't quote £12 an hour and say that's the going rate across the board. Personally think this 16% pay rise is ludicrous.
Do the job and see if you think the drivers don't deserve it.
You seem to spend most of the time on here bitching about buses running late round Hasbury and criticising drivers, when most of the time there is a valid reason for this.
I've been critical of the strike because it really wasn't needed to this extent but I will always back better driver pay. £15 an hour should be the basic wage for driving a bus when you consider the responsibility the driver has - keeping 70 passengers safe and not damaging a £300000 piece of kit.
It's not ludicrous at all.
BC and PB prepared to run full Sunday service
Quote from: MW on March 25, 2023, 06:22:37 PMTo all those saying the pay increase is ridiculous, just thought I'd point out that minimum wage is increasing by almost 10% (£9.50 to £10.42). Then you have inflation on top of that, and you have the fact that the effective top rate for NX is £10.80 per hour including non driving time.
I agree, then you have your bills and stuff on top. Tax is going up also
Hi,
Not sure if its right to post this here but I am.
I have an important Event to attend tomorrow and I'm wondering if the 15A/16 Busses Will be running from The Cross, Kingswinford.
Many thanks.
Buses running tomorrow same as they've done all week. Back to normal from Monday.
Quote from: ALX4555 on March 25, 2023, 07:51:18 PMHi,
Not sure if its right to post this here but I am.
I have an important Event to attend tomorrow and I'm wondering if the 15A/16 Busses Will be running from The Cross, Kingswinford.
Many thanks.
Sorry, no 15/15a or 16 until Monday.
Quote from: PB50 on March 25, 2023, 08:36:48 PMBuses running tomorrow same as they've done all week. Back to normal from Monday.
Depends on the capacity of the garage, bc and pb are set to run full Sunday service
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 25, 2023, 08:41:17 PMSorry, no 15/15a or 16 until Monday.
I haven't seen a report on numbers of drivers available at WN, but at least 3 garages intend to run a full service, so WN may yet di
Absolutely agree the pay rates don't reflect the responsibilities, the unsocial hours and dealing with the public. Good to see staff getting a well deserved pay rise.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 25, 2023, 05:10:17 PMI agree. You can't quote £12 an hour and say that's the going rate across the board. Personally think this 16% pay rise is ludicrous.
so you think £11.80 is an ok hourly rate for a professional driver, £86 a duty before tax, relief points without restrooms , drivers spending there breaks in bus shelters through winter, relying on third party toilets, being harassed by joe public or even assaulted. NX definitely not treating drivers like professionals are they
Quote from: Trident 4194 on March 25, 2023, 05:10:17 PMI agree. You can't quote £12 an hour and say that's the going rate across the board. Personally think this 16% pay rise is ludicrous.
What do you think an appropriate rate for a bus driver is?
Quote from: mrboshell on March 25, 2023, 07:43:07 PMBC and PB prepared to run full Sunday service
By full Sunday service does that include the early morning service (e.g. the first X12/X13s)
Quote from: GoldenSquid on March 25, 2023, 09:49:31 PMBy full Sunday service does that include the early morning service (e.g. the first X12/X13s)
Why wouldn't it, earlies are normally the easiest duties to cover. , And as Mrboshell says they are planning a full service
Quote from: Tony on March 25, 2023, 09:55:25 PMWhy wouldn't it, earlies are normally the easiest duties to cover. , And as Mrboshell says they are planning a full service
That's amazing, I get to cancel my £20 uber.
QuoteThat's amazing, I get to cancel my £20 uber.
Ubers been enjoying the money they earned this week
Quote from: Tony on March 25, 2023, 09:55:25 PMWhy wouldn't it, earlies are normally the easiest duties to cover. , And as Mrboshell says they are planning a full service
Will they be updating the website?
Quote from: 2206 on March 25, 2023, 10:15:21 PMWill they be updating the website?
That's what I was wondering
Quote from: BBS on March 25, 2023, 10:11:31 PMUbers been enjoying the money they earned this week
Well from just me, around £70. :| not been fun traveling to/from work this week.
National Express have just said that it's a reduced service today and it looks the same as during the week was so not a Sunday service. Back to normal tomorrow.
Quote from: PB50 on March 26, 2023, 08:51:37 AMNational Express have just said that it's a reduced service today and it looks the same as during the week was so not a Sunday service. Back to normal tomorrow.
Looks to me as a normal sunday service from what i've seen running this morning.
Quote from: ALX4555 on March 25, 2023, 07:51:18 PMHi,
Not sure if its right to post this here but I am.
I have an important Event to attend tomorrow and I'm wondering if the 15A/16 Busses Will be running from The Cross, Kingswinford.
Many thanks.
I can confirm that both the 15A and 16 ARE running today.
Quote from: Jack on March 26, 2023, 08:56:50 AMLooks to me as a normal sunday service from what i've seen running this morning.
Looks like a normal Sunday service to me too at present.
Quote from: Jack on March 26, 2023, 08:56:50 AMLooks to me as a normal sunday service from what i've seen running this morning.
Yes obviously they've not updated the website which doesn't help people. I've just seen a bus go past so past and realised it must be a Sunday service.
I've looked at the map on bus times and there is lot more buses running so why is NX still showing a link from it's FB page put up at about 8.40 am showing the strike timetables. Does NX want buses to run around empty ?
Quote from: PB50 on March 26, 2023, 09:15:27 AMYes obviously they've not updated the website which doesn't help people. I've just seen a bus go past so past and realised it must be a Sunday service.
Again communication issue, when David Bradford MD came to WB we all highlighted this it needs to improve massively, if folks are informed they can make alternative decisions, its the not knowing that pisses folks off, granted you will have one off issues on road that can't be helped.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on March 26, 2023, 09:43:30 AMI've looked at the map on bus times and there is lot more buses running so why is NX still showing a link from it's FB page put up at about 8.40 am showing the strike timetables. Does NX want buses to run around empty ?
Even if the website can't be changed for whatever reason, whoever is running Facebook and Twitter today can surely get the correct information by making a quick phone call or two. That is more annoying than the strike itself!
Quote from: Gareth on March 26, 2023, 09:47:44 AMEven if the website can't be changed for whatever reason, whoever is running Facebook and Twitter today can surely get the correct information by making a quick phone call or two. That is more annoying than the strike itself!
The website is useless it still says that the 2£ fare ends in march 🤣
Quote from: Gareth on March 26, 2023, 09:47:44 AMEven if the website can't be changed for whatever reason, whoever is running Facebook and Twitter today can surely get the correct information by making a quick phone call or two. That is more annoying than the strike itself!
I would imagine the "social media team" are Monday to Friday 9-5ers. Maybe Saturdays but I doubt Sundays.
Quote from: 2900 on March 26, 2023, 09:47:12 AMAgain communication issue, when David Bradford MD came to WB we all highlighted this it needs to improve massively, if folks are informed they can make alternative decisions, its the not knowing that pisses folks off, granted you will have one off issues on road that can't be helped.
On Services updates page some say services between for example The 74 between 09:45 - 13:45 will have delays. There is no clear message are buses delayed by 5, 10, 15 or 20 or longer minutes.
Yet some say the following services may not for example run 12:40, 14:20 on the 13 Birmingham to Oldbury but that is no clear message in which direction.
If the messages where clear online and have messages at bus stations it would be helpful as not everyone as smartphones to check online while traveling for delays.
Quote from: MW on March 26, 2023, 10:03:49 AMI would imagine the "social media team" are Monday to Friday 9-5ers. Maybe Saturdays but I doubt Sundays.
I imagine the "social media team" are an outsourced third-party - on Twitter they are still telling people that the only bus services running are those listed on the Strike Action page. :undecided:
Pensnett routes normal Sunday service
I know I'm out driving
They've finally confirmed it's a Sunday service today.
Quote from: MW on March 26, 2023, 10:03:49 AMI would imagine the "social media team" are Monday to Friday 9-5ers. Maybe Saturdays but I doubt Sundays.
There's social media posts by them today. Up until 5 mins ago they were all incorrect.
QuoteI would imagine the "social media team" are Monday to Friday 9-5ers. Maybe Saturdays but I doubt Sundays.
Yet they were found responding to tweets on Christmas Day...
I guess this thread could be archived now?
Quote from: hlliwmai on March 27, 2023, 08:25:59 PMI guess this thread could be archived now?
Until November when pay talks resume, might be needing it again....
Quote from: andy41 on March 28, 2023, 11:44:25 PMUntil November when pay talks resume, might be needing it again....
Hopefully inflation is down to at least 4% by then.
Or July if the terms and conditions aren't implemented.
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 29, 2023, 12:40:38 PMOr July if the terms and conditions aren't implemented.
Lets hope nx remember to move buses before they start to stike if it happens
Quote from: Rachvince53 on March 29, 2023, 12:40:38 PMOr July if the terms and conditions aren't implemented.
There's a new act of parliament going through both houses that relates to abuse staff suffer at work. If passed it gives employees rights to sue the bosses.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3205
Quote from: Ginger66 on April 02, 2023, 05:38:58 PMThere's a new act of parliament going through both houses that relates to abuse staff suffer at work. If passed it gives employees rights to sue the bosses.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3205
NXWM will go bankrupt lol
Has national express thought about body worn cameras for drivers on routes with high anti social behaviour and routes that are know for fare dodging
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on April 05, 2023, 11:13:08 AMHas national express thought about body worn cameras for drivers on routes with high anti social behaviour and routes that are know for fare dodging
Why? when the buses are already full of CCTV camera's
Quote from: winston on April 05, 2023, 11:19:50 AMWhy? when the buses are already full of CCTV camera's
As someone said before you have the LFZ tickets such as Walsall and how do you police passengers say on the 4/45, 5 going past the cut of point, as if you put revenue inspectors at those stops passengers will catch on to where the inspectors are.
Quote from: Ginger66 on April 05, 2023, 12:26:22 PMAs someone said before you have the LFZ tickets such as Walsall and how do you police passengers say on the 4/45, 5 going past the cut of point, as if you put revenue inspectors at those stops passengers will catch on to where the inspectors are.
Isn't that the point?
Passengers get used to stops where the revenue team wait and don't go past them?
Quote from: Tony on April 05, 2023, 02:11:04 PMIsn't that the point?
Passengers get used to stops where the revenue team wait and don't go past them?
Very True That, whats happening with the Smallbrook Queensway revenue check point is fare dodgers get off at the Raddison stop the one before, in Smethwick fare dodgers come off at Galton Bridge stop before ASRA check point, The hardcore non payers just walk past inspectors in any case unless backed by the police.
Inspectors?? Yeah.. where are they when you need one?? I would like to
offer my thanks(NOT) to PB.. It may have escaped their notice that the X city
Rail line twixt Lich TV and BNS is out of action for 4 days due to ongoing
Engineering work...? Had it not occurred to management that passengers
would likely patronize their X3 X4 X5 and X14 services??? This appears to have been
the case ..Unfortunately The return svcs booked between 18.49 pm and 19.29 pm
on Saturday evening (8th April) failed to materialize with no on going services available to the 30+ passengers left in the cold in central Bham?? No doubt due to lack
of Management forethought and/or driver O/T refusal and/or Relief??/ Maybe if they Don't need the O/t they dont need a pay rise? Can we expect better at whitsun I wonder??
Quote from: windy miller on April 09, 2023, 03:40:04 PMInspectors?? Yeah.. where are they when you need one?? I would like to
offer my thanks(NOT) to PB.. It may have escaped their notice that the X city
Rail line twixt Lich TV and BNS is out of action for 4 days due to ongoing
Engineering work...? Had it not occurred to management that passengers
would likely patronize their X3 X4 X5 and X14 services??? This appears to have been
the case ..Unfortunately The return svcs booked between 18.49 pm and 19.29 pm
on Saturday evening (8th April) failed to materialize with no on going services available to the 30+ passengers left in the cold in central Bham?? No doubt due to lack
of Management forethought and/or driver O/T refusal and/or Relief??/ Maybe if they Don't need the O/t they dont need a pay rise? Can we expect better at whitsun I wonder??
It's great to be a keyboard warrior ay it
Quote from: windy miller on April 09, 2023, 03:40:04 PMInspectors?? Yeah.. where are they when you need one?? I would like to
offer my thanks(NOT) to PB.. It may have escaped their notice that the X city
Rail line twixt Lich TV and BNS is out of action for 4 days due to ongoing
Engineering work...? Had it not occurred to management that passengers
would likely patronize their X3 X4 X5 and X14 services??? This appears to have been
the case ..Unfortunately The return svcs booked between 18.49 pm and 19.29 pm
on Saturday evening (8th April) failed to materialize with no on going services available to the 30+ passengers left in the cold in central Bham?? No doubt due to lack
of Management forethought and/or driver O/T refusal and/or Relief??/ Maybe if they Don't need the O/t they dont need a pay rise? Can we expect better at whitsun I wonder??
The 19:10 X3 ran, that was 6812 as recorded by Bustimes 6812 - SN66 WDS – National Express West Midlands – bustimes.org (https://bustimes.org/vehicles/tnxb-pb-6812?date=2023-04-08)
I was not suggesting it didn't run... but not an ONWARD service from central Bham..obviously an X4 arrived at 19 29pm with a Tamworth 110 Immediately behind it ...
Quote from: windy miller on April 09, 2023, 05:05:14 PMI was not suggesting it didn't run... but not an ONWARD service from central Bham..obviously an X4 arrived at 19 29pm with a Tamworth 110 Immediately behind it ...
What do you mean not an onward service from Central Birmingham?
The tracking appears to show that journey ran as scheduled from the City Centre through to Hill Hook. The same goes for 6868 on the BC X14.
Why should anyone have to rely on overtime to pay there bills ?
A standard 5 day working week has enough hours without working more.