I have got to go to Newcastle upon Tyne sometime in the near future (at least NX are paying thankfully).
Any train arriving in Newcastle before 12:30 requires an anytime return priced at £211
Birmingham - Sheffield Anytime return is £82.50
Sheffield - Newcastle Anytime return is £88.50
Saving £40 with exactly the same validity (return anytime within as month).
Save even more with alternate routes, splitting at either Manchester or Grantham will save you a further 20 notes or so ;-)
Have you tried checking for advances?
Or if 2 of you are travelling together on the same service a two together railcard?
It would be cheaper to go off peak the day before and stop in a Travelodge and return off peak?
Quote from: the trainbasher on April 06, 2014, 12:28:09 AM
Have you tried checking for advances?
Or if 2 of you are travelling together on the same service a two together railcard?
Yes, of course I have, but Arriva NEVER put there cheapest advertised advances on any useful train, I haven't EVER managed to find one of there cheapest advertised advances on ANY train even 3 months in advance! An as I said in the original post the cheapest fare is £211 - no advances whatsoever on any morning arrival. As i am only going for the day the cheapest way of doing it is actually anytime day return to Derby, then off-peak day returns Derby-Sheffield; Sheffield-York; York-Newcastle which comes to a total of £108.
Arriva Cross-Country are the only train company I really dislike. The difference between when Virgin ran it and Arriva is untrue
As you know, it depends on when you travel & how much notice you have before you need to book.
Maybe a better 'two fingers to Arriva' option is:
VT advance B'ham-Carlisle from £33 (book before day of travel) or £85 off peak (bookable on day) +
Carlisle-Newcastle £8 (advance) or £31 (on day)
Rail fares are a complete minefield, before individual toc's start playing the system. A few years back, I was asked to do a day at Bath Spa, by splitting my tickets at Cheltenham, I saved 50% of the advertised through fare. Like you, my employers were picking up the tab, but I failed to see why they should be milked, particularly as I was travelling on EXACTLY THE SAME TRAINS as the full fare option.
Quote from: dave47549 (no longer NEL111P) on April 06, 2014, 12:58:45 PM
As you know, it depends on when you travel & how much notice you have before you need to book.
Maybe a better 'two fingers to Arriva' option is:
VT advance B'ham-Carlisle from £33 (book before day of travel) or £85 off peak (bookable on day) +
Carlisle-Newcastle £8 (advance) or £31 (on day)
Rail fares are a complete minefield, before individual toc's start playing the system. A few years back, I was asked to do a day at Bath Spa, by splitting my tickets at Cheltenham, I saved 50% of the advertised through fare. Like you, my employers were picking up the tab, but I failed to see why they should be milked, particularly as I was travelling on EXACTLY THE SAME TRAINS as the full fare option.
Hi Dave, I don't know whether you know the little trick when heading to the South West! Instead of just splitting tickets at Cheltenham as you did so the second half is priced by First not Arriva, book the ticket to Cheltenham as a Bromsgove to Cheltenham ticket. Because no trains from Bromsgove go down to Cheltenham there is an easement in the routing guide allowing doubling back via Birmingham. It is cheaper than the Birmngham to Cheltenham ticket and the off-peak is valid on earlier trains!
There is a phone app called 'Tickety Split' which tells you the best places to split your fares on walk up fares to avoid costly one leg tickets. Ticket Office staff are also experts at doing this and will always calculate it for you if they don't have a queue out the door.
To be fair it isn't only XC that have extortianate point to point fares, they all do it. You have to know where to split, which of course is a joke but the rules allow it so it is them that are at fault.
You are correct though Tony that XC are the worst for offering decent value advance fares, particularly on routes where they have no competition. DB obviously cant make any money in Germany so they make up for it here. The lucrative thing about the XC franchise is that there are so many routes where there is next to no competition.
This is why I laugh when people slag LM off so much. They have their problems but in terms competitive fares they can't be faulted.
Quote from: andy on April 06, 2014, 07:36:32 PM
There is a phone app called 'Tickety Split' which tells you the best places to split your fares on walk up fares to avoid costly one leg tickets. Ticket Office staff are also experts at doing this and will always calculate it for you if they don't have a queue out the door.
To be fair it isn't only XC that have extortianate point to point fares, they all do it. You have to know where to split, which of course is a joke but the rules allow it so it is them that are at fault.
You are correct though Tony that XC are the worst for offering decent value advance fares, particularly on routes where they have no competition. DB obviously cant make any money in Germany so they make up for it here. The lucrative thing about the XC franchise is that there are so many routes where there is next to no competition.
This is why I laugh when people slag LM off so much. They have their problems but in terms competitive fares they can't be faulted.
I know most of the splits myself when I used to be in the Pavilions Travel shop and we used to be a Rail ticket agency. One good one for day trips to the North East is the Cheap day Return Birmingham-Lincoln which is only £27, valid after 08:30 and what a lot of people don't realise is valid via Doncaster. It is a ticket from the old Central Trains days who were very good on fares and introduced day return fares on all their routes, even over 50 miles which is the normal limit for CDRs
Quote from: Tony on April 06, 2014, 01:37:41 PM
Hi Dave, I don't know whether you know the little trick when heading to the South West!
Tony, yes. ISTR you reminded me of it at the time. Decided against it anyway as I was heading west on the first service (05:00 to Cardiff (?), was on works time & didn't want any additional hassle. Trying to sleep on the subsequent 150/2 between Cheltenham & Bath is difficult enough as it is!
Quote from: Tony on April 06, 2014, 09:28:09 AM
Quote from: the trainbasher on April 06, 2014, 12:28:09 AM
Have you tried checking for advances?
Or if 2 of you are travelling together on the same service a two together railcard?
Yes, of course I have, but Arriva NEVER put there cheapest advertised advances on any useful train, I haven't EVER managed to find one of there cheapest advertised advances on ANY train even 3 months in advance! An as I said in the original post the cheapest fare is £211 - no advances whatsoever on any morning arrival. As i am only going for the day the cheapest way of doing it is actually anytime day return to Derby, then off-peak day returns Derby-Sheffield; Sheffield-York; York-Newcastle which comes to a total of £108.
Arriva Cross-Country are the only train company I really dislike. The difference between when Virgin ran it and Arriva is untrue
I used cross country on 3 separate occasions last year twice to Newcastle and once to York. Every journey was an experience. At least on 2 occasions I got a refund on 50% of my ticket price due to the delay.
Several people in the past suggested to me that a 'cheap' fare is available for a trip to doncaster...by booking a day return to Lincoln, and opting to go via Doncaster. I can't see the sense in allowing a 'permitted ' route via Donny as there are so many other options available... eg B'ham-Nottingham. and nott'm to lincoln... Or even birmingham-sheffield then sheff to Lincoln? I seem to remember looking at the (weekday) time restrictions for these 'off peak' XC services and I don't think I found any cheap options.... saturdays maybe?. but almost certainly NOT favourable during the week. I have usually booked a cheap D/return from New St to Burton on trent @09.47am which cost me around £7.75 with a railcard, then a derbyshire wayfarer tickt (senior disc) :-\ at £ 5.80 to Sheffield/retn, and an anytime rtn from sheffield to Doncaster for £3.90. I'm pretty sure that booking ANY rtn ticket on a weekday to Lincoln would almost certainly cost more than £18?
Evening all,
I am calling out for the experience on here to help me save a few quid.
Looking to go to Newcastle from Birmingham New Street on 1st Aug, returning 2nd/3rd. Cheapest Ive found is splitting at Carlisle, but wondered if anyone knew any better ticketing. I have looked and the BHM to Lincoln return that is valid via Doncaster seems to have shot up
Quote from: bususer12 on July 07, 2015, 08:46:32 PM
Evening all,
I am calling out for the experience on here to help me save a few quid.
Looking to go to Newcastle from Birmingham New Street on 1st Aug, returning 2nd/3rd. Cheapest Ive found is splitting at Carlisle, but wondered if anyone knew any better ticketing. I have looked and the BHM to Lincoln return that is valid via Doncaster seems to have shot up
The Birmingham-Lincoln cheap ticket is a day return which is why you cannot find it for your journey. Just splitting the peak return at Doncaster saves a lot of money.
Just over 10 years ago I was going from Birmingham to Manchester for £13 return! Now you can't even get a single for that price. I hate Cross Country Trains with a passion. They've done nothing to keep the trains looking nice on the inside. Bring back Branson - I can't believe we've got over 4 more years of this!
Surely to God a simple integrated system with one national operator would be better than this current s##t state of affairs! Dont we pay the highest fares in Europe also?
Quote from: Bob on August 23, 2015, 03:37:14 PM
Surely to God a simple integrated system with one national operator would be better than this current s##t state of affairs! Dont we pay the highest fares in Europe also?
So good old 'British Railways' had cheap simple ticketing just before John Major privatised it? ran trains to time and had good frequent services everywhere.
The privatisation was far from perfect, and both parties have made a cock up of trying to perfect it, but the fares I generally pay now are lower 'in real terms' than they were under BR, the services are generally a lot more frequent and the trains more modern.
Now if we could get the infrastructure provide to get the track & signalling to work better, they might be a lot more reliable as well
Quote from: Oozells on August 23, 2015, 01:58:53 PM
Just over 10 years ago I was going from Birmingham to Manchester for £13 return! Now you can't even get a single for that price. I hate Cross Country Trains with a passion. They've done nothing to keep the trains looking nice on the inside. Bring back Branson - I can't believe we've got over 4 more years of this!
Never pay XC and travel direct to Manchester from Birmingham unless you find a decent Advance, which they deliberately make very expensive now. Even if you do the train will be rammed, hot and uncomfortable.
Travel on the Liverpool service to Crewe (always loads of decent cheap advances on that) and then get an open return from Crewe to Manchester on any permitted. Between Virgin, Arriva and Northern, you will soon be in Manchester for much less money, in greater comfort and only a little more time.
Quote from: andy41 on August 25, 2015, 11:10:05 AM
Never pay XC and travel direct to Manchester from Birmingham unless you find a decent Advance, which they deliberately make very expensive now. Even if you do the train will be rammed, hot and uncomfortable.
Travel on the Liverpool service to Crewe (always loads of decent cheap advances on that) and then get an open return from Crewe to Manchester on any permitted. Between Virgin, Arriva and Northern, you will soon be in Manchester for much less money, in greater comfort and only a little more time.
Not every single train that CrossCountry operates is rammed, hot and uncomfortable!
Quote from: X94 on August 25, 2015, 11:59:29 PM
Not every single train that CrossCountry operates is rammed, hot and uncomfortable!
True, but most on the Manchester to Reading/Bournemouth route are as they are generally 4 car when many more are required...
Quote from: X94 on August 25, 2015, 11:59:29 PM
Not every single train that CrossCountry operates is rammed, hot and uncomfortable!
Yeah I caught a train at about 11pm back from Tamworth once. That had loads if space...
Quote from: Kevin on August 26, 2015, 12:49:22 PM
Yeah I caught a train at about 11pm back from Tamworth once. That had loads if space...
So do a lot of the ones to and from Manchester in the middle of the day...
Quote from: X94 on August 26, 2015, 02:58:50 PM
So do a lot of the ones to and from Manchester in the middle of the day...
Still unnecessarily expensive though
Another example of Arriva Cross Country rip-off.
I'm going to Manchester tomorrow in the peak.
Anytime return from Hednesford to Manchester = £89.60 (priced by Arriva Cross Country)
Now what happens if I make my way 8 miles up the road to Rugeley? An anytime Day return magically appears for the price of £25.60! Saving £64.00
Rather than complaining about the price of through tickets on CrossCountry, split ticketing is perfectly legal and no-one can stop you from purchasing them to cover your journey as long as all trains stop where the tickets are split at;
Hednesford to Manchester, split ticket at Rugeley takes the cost down to £28.30.
Quote from: andy41 on August 25, 2015, 11:10:05 AM
Never pay XC and travel direct to Manchester from Birmingham unless you find a decent Advance, which they deliberately make very expensive now. Even if you do the train will be rammed, hot and uncomfortable.
Travel on the Liverpool service to Crewe (always loads of decent cheap advances on that) and then get an open return from Crewe to Manchester on any permitted. Between Virgin, Arriva and Northern, you will soon be in Manchester for much less money, in greater comfort and only a little more time.
That's what I do. Either that or split ticketing
Quote from: andy41 on August 25, 2015, 11:10:05 AM
Never pay XC and travel direct to Manchester from Birmingham unless you find a decent Advance, which they deliberately make very expensive now. Even if you do the train will be rammed, hot and uncomfortable.
Travel on the Liverpool service to Crewe (always loads of decent cheap advances on that) and then get an open return from Crewe to Manchester on any permitted. Between Virgin, Arriva and Northern, you will soon be in Manchester for much less money, in greater comfort and only a little more time.
How about LM to Stoke and then any permitted to Manchester?
Quote from: Other Walsall Tony on June 27, 2017, 07:54:19 AM
How about LM to Stoke and then any permitted to Manchester?
Doesn't work from Birmingham.
You have to be ultra careful to avoid being ripped off by CrossCountry. I've just booked advance tickets for a journey from Bristol to Birmingham for September. Bristol to Birmingham on the 1430 service is £14.20 with railcard. Bristol to Cheltenham is £3.15 advance, Cheltenham to New Street in £4.75 advance - a total of £7.90 and a saving of £6.30. That's on the same train (HST thankfully), same seat - same everything except the price.
Found another Cross Country rip off fare!
I need to go to Scarborough tomorrow to collect 5403 from EYMS.
Birmingham to Scarborough anytime single £101.60
Birmingham to Sheffield anytime single £50.50
Sheffield to Scarborough anytime single £39.20
Total £89.700
So no splitting for off-peak tickets or advance, but a ticket valid on every single train and you can save nearly £10.90. I can even save a bit more by splitting again at Tamworth!
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2021, 08:13:17 PM
Found another Cross Country rip off fare!
I need to go to Scarborough tomorrow to collect 5403 from EYMS.
Birmingham to Scarborough anytime single £101.60
Birmingham to Sheffield anytime single £50.50
Sheffield to Scarborough anytime single £39.20
Total £89.700
So no splitting for off-peak tickets or advance, but a ticket valid on every single train and you can save nearly £10.90. I can even save a bit more by splitting again at Tamworth!
Are you unable to buy an advance single - if you know what time you need to be there for? £38.60 advance single on the 11:03 from BHM.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 16, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Are you unable to buy an advance single - if you know what time you need to be there for? £38.60 advance single on the 11:03 from BHM.
Yes, 11:03, how wonderful that would be when I have a 4 hour drive back in a 45mph bus! Oh no I wouldn't have a 4 hour drive back because I would be too late to collect the bus in the first place!
I appreciate you wouldn't know I cannot collect the bus after 14:00, but the last thing I want to be doing is driving home completely in the dark at that speed.
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2021, 08:13:17 PM
Found another Cross Country rip off fare!
I need to go to Scarborough tomorrow to collect 5403 from EYMS.
Birmingham to Scarborough anytime single £101.60
Birmingham to Sheffield anytime single £50.50
Sheffield to Scarborough anytime single £39.20
Total £89.700
So no splitting for off-peak tickets or advance, but a ticket valid on every single train and you can save nearly £10.90. I can even save a bit more by splitting again at Tamworth!
Cross Country advance fares are a joke. People wonder why trains are half empty.....
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Yes, 11:03, how wonderful that would be when I have a 4 hour drive back in a 45mph bus! Oh no I wouldn't have a 4 hour drive back because I would be too late to collect the bus in the first place!
I appreciate you wouldn't know I cannot collect the bus after 14:00, but the last thing I want to be doing is driving home completely in the dark at that speed.
Have you tried Trainline? Just looked and a single from New Street to Scarborough is £77.70 on the 06:30 & 07:03am departures
Quote from: 4679 on November 16, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Have you tried Trainline? Just looked and a single from New Street to Scarborough is £77.70 on the 06:30 & 07:03am departures
My problem with advance fares is you are stuck to that particular train. I am hoping to catch the 0703, but am relying on the first train from Hednesford being on time. It only has a six minute connection so if it is late I miss it and because is less than 8 minutes it is not an official connection so my ticket would be invalid
Quote from: 4679 on November 16, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Have you tried Trainline? Just looked and a single from New Street to Scarborough is £77.70 on the 06:30 & 07:03am departures
PS never use the train line, they are the most expensive way to buy a ticket
Quote from: Tony on November 16, 2021, 08:13:17 PM
So no splitting for off-peak tickets or advance, but a ticket valid on every single train and you can save nearly £10.90. I can even save a bit more by splitting again at Tamworth!
I always recommend folk look into split ticketing. There's even websites that'll check for you, I always use Trainpal to book mine as it checks automatically.
You can also 'split' your ticket if you already have a season ticket or pass, I have an nNetwork pass, so I always 'split' the ticket at Coventry when I'm going to Rugby, rather than having to pay again for the Birmingham to Coventry section.
Quote from: Tony on November 17, 2021, 07:04:30 AM
PS never use the train line, they are the most expensive way to buy a ticket
Trainline do split ticketing now. I've managed to get an off peak return for £26.00 from Wolverhampton to Manchester Piccadilly
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 17, 2021, 01:48:55 PM
Trainline do split ticketing now. I've managed to get an off peak return for £26.00 from Wolverhampton to Manchester Piccadilly
I
never use CrossCountry to get to Manchester, you're always much better off changing at Crewe for a Northern service
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 17, 2021, 01:48:55 PM
Trainline do split ticketing now. I've managed to get an off peak return for £26.00 from Wolverhampton to Manchester Piccadilly
Still more expensive than any other site because you paid a booking fee. I refuse to use any site that charges a booking fee when exactly the same tickets can be bought at booking offices or rail co.pany websites/apps
Quote from: Tony on November 17, 2021, 07:19:32 PM
Still more expensive than any other site because you paid a booking fee. I refuse to use any site that charges a booking fee when exactly the same tickets can be bought at booking offices or rail co.pany websites/apps
That's how sites like TheTrainline make their money though. All they are doing basically is 'reselling' tickets bought 'wholesale'.
In the past, I've often used TheTrainline to plan journeys and find tickets, but then buy those tickets direct from the operator.
But they all use the same 'backend' system though for ticketing, so there is no real advantage from buying 'direct' - I've used the Chiltern Railways site and ended up buying tickets for Virgin Trains services; didn't cost me any more or less than buying through the Virgin Trains website, was just more convenient for me as I already had an account on the Chiltern website, with payment details saved and all that.
Quote from: Sh4318 on November 17, 2021, 02:39:07 PM
I never use CrossCountry to get to Manchester, you're always much better off changing at Crewe for a Northern service
Please provide dates and costs to reinforce this as from what I can see it's more expensive going via crewe, or even doing WLV to Crewe then crewe to MAN separately
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 17, 2021, 10:18:15 PM
Please provide dates and costs to reinforce this as from what I can see it's more expensive going via crewe, or even doing WLV to Crewe then crewe to MAN separately
I have done Wolverhampton to Manchester via Crewe it's the same price and if timed correctly much fast than XC from wolvo to Manchester
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 17, 2021, 10:18:15 PM
Please provide dates and costs to reinforce this as from what I can see it's more expensive going via crewe, or even doing WLV to Crewe then crewe to MAN separately
I booked train tickets for AM peak, for in a couple weeks time (albeit from Smethwick Galton Bridge):
Smethwick Galton Bridge to Crewe - £5 (London Northwestern Railway)
Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly - £2 (Northern)
I checked CrossCountry prices for the same time - £36
Quote from: Sh4318 on February 26, 2022, 08:16:43 PM
I booked train tickets for AM peak, for in a couple weeks time (albeit from Smethwick Galton Bridge):
Smethwick Galton Bridge to Crewe - £5 (London Northwestern Railway)
Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly - £2 (Northern)
I checked CrossCountry prices for the same time - £36
For another example, I checked Birmingham - Manchester on a random day in a couple of weeks time. Leaving New Street at 08:21 on London Northwestern, changing at Stoke at 09:13 for the 09:56 Northern service to Manchester, and arriving at 10:52, would set you back £9.70. Granted, it takes just under an hour longer than the ones National Rail Enquiries suggests, but then you'd be paying £47.80 for an anytime single.
There are some decently priced fares travelling direct though, if you value the time saving. The 06:53 departure from New Street on XC on the 7th March has advance fares for £20.70, and is a direct service taking only 90 minutes.
As an alternative, Megabus takes 2hr 15mins, and costs £7.62, and you can get a Flixbus that takes around the same time for a little less, but with departures at either 03:05, or 13:40 from Birmingham.
Next time, should try Birmingham to Carlisle on Avanti West Coast, might get some decent advances [i've seen £27.70 single listed for the direct services], but the normal off peak fare is £105 return, & valid from 06.15 on a normal weekday
Then Northern, Carlisle to Newcastle, the Northern fare is from £18.70 off peak day return, to £23.60 anytime return.
Always buy split tickets on long distance services
I'm heading off to Cornwall next month to go visit my brother and his little family.
I originally checked for ticket prices at nationalrail.co.uk, and a return from Birmingham New Street to Penzance (changing at Plymouth) came to £189.90 return.
Which I was initially happy to pay, then I was reminded about using 'split tickets' to save money on long-distance journeys.
Not sure if this one has been mentioned here before but I found the site https://www.splitmyfare.co.uk/
By splitting the journey into five tickets, it ended up costing me £142.97 - the actual cost is £134.70 but the site charges a small percentage of the cost saving, in my case £8.27.
:laugh:
Not Arriva this time, but just goes to show how the whole train fare setup penalises long-distance travellers.
I'm heading off to Borth in Wales next month again. NationalRail.co.uk is quoting a return ticket at £67.80 from Birmingham New Street to Borth, on the Transport For Wales service to Aberystwyth via Shrewsbury.
Checking on SplitMyFare.co.uk (https://splitmyfare.co.uk/), it is cheaper to buy two tickets, splitting this time at Caersws.
#1 - Birmingham New Street to Caersws - Off-Peak Return - £32.10
#2 - Caersws to Borth - Off-Peak Return - £22.70
(Interestingly last time I checked, for a journey in July, which I didn't end up making, the split point was at Welshpool)
Not that much of a saving compared to my last trip, but still, every little helps, as they say.
QuoteNot Arriva this time, but just goes to show how the whole train fare setup penalises long-distance travellers.
I'm heading off to Borth in Wales next month again. NationalRail.co.uk is quoting a return ticket at £67.80 from Birmingham New Street to Borth, on the Transport For Wales service to Aberystwyth via Shrewsbury.
Checking on SplitMyFare.co.uk (https://splitmyfare.co.uk/), it is cheaper to buy two tickets, splitting this time at Caersws.
#1 - Birmingham New Street to Caersws - Off-Peak Return - £32.10
#2 - Caersws to Borth - Off-Peak Return - £22.70
(Interestingly last time I checked, for a journey in July, which I didn't end up making, the split point was at Welshpool)
Not that much of a saving compared to my last trip, but still, every little helps, as they say.
... Or you could get:
Birmingham - Dovey Junction, anytime Day Return £28.30 &
Dovey Junction - Borth, anytime Day Return £4.30
So, £32.60 ;-)