Any queries about Arriva Midlands history (like vehicles, depots, routes), just pop them in here and I'm sure someone can answer them. I can only do Leicester mostly but I do know some stuff about Derby too.
I never understood why arriva burton split the original 112 route between Brum & Burton into 2 parts at Lichfield. The part between Burton and Lichfield was renumbered the 12 and the part between Lichfield and Brum retained the original route number. Through fares were available for passengers travelling from Burton to Sutton or Brum. What was the point in this? It was exactly the same route just a number change at Lichfield. Sounds like a waste of a re registration to me
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 23, 2019, 08:34:03 PM
I never understood why arriva burton split the original 112 route between Brum & Burton into 2 parts at Lichfield. The part between Burton and Lichfield was renumbered the 12 and the part between Lichfield and Brum retained the original route number. Through fares were available for passengers travelling from Burton to Sutton or Brum. What was the point in this? It was exactly the same route just a number change at Lichfield. Sounds like a waste of a re registration to me
Not my neck of the woods but probably down to reliability issues, and splitting the sections into separate routes decreased that. There was major roadworks in the north end of Leicester during the summer of 2003 and this was causing problems for the 27 and 28, which went into Leicester from Ratby and Groby and then onwards to Knighton. They were cut back to Leicester from their respective village and the Knighton section was renumbered 44. It must have made a huge difference because over the remainder of the year, all their other cross-city routes were split.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 23, 2019, 08:34:03 PM
I never understood why arriva burton split the original 112 route between Brum & Burton into 2 parts at Lichfield. The part between Burton and Lichfield was renumbered the 12 and the part between Lichfield and Brum retained the original route number. Through fares were available for passengers travelling from Burton to Sutton or Brum. What was the point in this? It was exactly the same route just a number change at Lichfield. Sounds like a waste of a re registration to me
Wasn't it due to the rules around distance? Splitting it allowed them to operate it on domestic rules rather than EU rules, as the overall route would have been over 50km but not if split into two sections?
I also never understood why arriva Wednesfield put a 78 service on which was basically the 878 run by select bar Acton trussell. This ran at ridiculous times in the evening and all day on Sundays. I'm sorry but who would put buses round tight lanes at that time of night. It's not like it would carry anything anyway.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 23, 2019, 09:10:01 PM
I also never understood why arriva Wednesfield put a 78 service on which was basically the 878 run by select bar Acton trussell. This ran at ridiculous times in the evening and all day on Sundays. I'm sorry but who would put buses round tight lanes at that time of night. It's not like it would carry anything anyway.
Could it have been a subsidised/contract service? In which case Arriva would have to run the service regardless if it were picking up passengers or not.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on July 23, 2019, 09:22:57 PM
Could it have been a subsidised/contract service? In which case Arriva would have to run the service regardless if it were picking up passengers or not.
To me it just sounds like another one of arriva's grand plans to piss off an independant
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 23, 2019, 09:25:56 PM
To me it just sounds like another one of arriva's grand plans to piss off an independant
So if they were trying to take Select's passengers, why would they "run at ridiculous times in the evening" when Select were probably not running? How would that annoy the independant?
Arriva may not want to directly compete with the independant they might just want to poke the wasp nest. However I also agree with your argument
@NXWMFAN1105
I'd welcome Arriva competing against Select on some of their services!
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 23, 2019, 09:41:15 PM
Arriva may not want to directly compete with the independant they might just want to poke the wasp nest. However I also agree with your argument @NXWMFAN1105
Sounds like the old route 3 which was wholly contracted so not competing with anything.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on July 23, 2019, 08:34:03 PM
I never understood why arriva burton split the original 112 route between Brum & Burton into 2 parts at Lichfield. The part between Burton and Lichfield was renumbered the 12 and the part between Lichfield and Brum retained the original route number. Through fares were available for passengers travelling from Burton to Sutton or Brum. What was the point in this? It was exactly the same route just a number change at Lichfield. Sounds like a waste of a re registration to me
Have you ever managed a bus company?
Quote from: nathanielrwi on July 24, 2019, 12:33:15 AM
I'd welcome Arriva competing against Select on some of their services!
I'd welcome Select competing with Arriva, I like to see small companies grow as Midland Classic did at one time.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 01, 2019, 01:30:13 PM
I'd welcome Select competing with Arriva, I like to see small companies grow as Midland Classic did at one time.
And Banga! They saw Arriva off on the 8 and 530.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 06:34:04 PM
8?
Wolverhampton to Telford, previously numbered the 891.
Quote from: Nathan on August 01, 2019, 06:42:29 PM
Wolverhampton to Telford, previously numbered the 891.
When did this operate?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 08:13:05 PM
When did this operate?
Arriva operated the 891 until 2015 where it was renumbered 8 to fit in with the Telford services. It ran the same route as the current Banga 891. Banga introduced a service to Telford using the 891 number and both themselves and Arriva competed on this corridor. After the closure of Wednesfield depot, Telford depot took over the 10/A/B. This saw a renumbering of the 8 to 10 and one journey per hour was extended from Perton to Telford. The 10 from Telford interworked onto the 10A & 10B at Wolverhampton. However, last year, the service was withdrawn due to low passenger use.
Midland Red and Arriva operated between Wolverhapton and Telford for many years i was surprised when they stopped!
Quote from: Bob on August 01, 2019, 08:27:26 PM
Midland Red and Arriva operated between Wolverhapton and Telford for many years i was surprised when they stopped!
Arriva's 10 took too long to get to Wolverhampton, more people used Banga as it was quicker hence why there was low passenger use and the ultimate withdrawal of the route. I myself wasn't surprised at the withdrawal.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 08:30:21 PM
Arriva's 10 took too long to get to Wolverhampton, more people used Banga as it was quicker hence why there was low passenger use and the ultimate withdrawal of the route. I myself wasn't surprised at the withdrawal.
I heard Banga do well on the 891
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 08:33:18 PM
I heard Banga do well on the 891
They do Monday to Friday. A new timetable commenced yesterday which sees the withdrawal of Saturday services for a second time. The majority of Saturday users were pass holders so the service wasn't making money - despite being full on some journey's! The service is operated commercially so I'm not surprised at the withdrawal. Banga only commenced Saturday operations again last year solely because Arriva were withdrawing.
I thought arriva withdrew the 891 soon after Banga entered the corridor. I didn't realise they held on
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 08:52:25 PM
I thought arriva withdrew the 891 soon after Banga entered the corridor. I didn't realise they held on
No, just renumbered it.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 08:55:44 PM
No, just renumbered it.
Could you see Arriva going back on the Telford-Wolverhampton Corridor?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
Could you see Arriva going back on the Telford-Wolverhampton Corridor?
No, not really. They've tried and failed to compete against Banga. When Banga first started out on the route, Arriva registered an X92 service which ran half hourly between Telford and Shifnal only. It failed so I can't see any other attempt working. They may do something in Shifnal to cater for the new housing estates but that'll be it.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 09:05:53 PM
No, not really. They've tried and failed to compete against Banga. When Banga first started out on the route, Arriva registered an X92 service which ran half hourly between Telford and Shifnal only. It failed so I can't see any other attempt working. They may do something in Shifnal to cater for the new housing estates but that'll be it.
Did banga run an 892 between Shifnal and Telford?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:12:41 PM
Did banga run an 892 between Shifnal and Telford?
Yes, they did but only for a short period of time. I have attached a copy of the timetable.
Arriva started the war when they went on the 530 so what did they expect
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:23:52 PM
Arriva started the war when they went on the 530 so what did they expect
Banga saw Travel West Midlands off the 530 first!
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 09:26:57 PM
Banga saw Travel West Midlands off the 530 first!
I actually never knew travel went on the 530
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:29:30 PM
I actually never knew travel went on the 530
They did, used Metrobuses on it.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 09:33:36 PM
They did, used Metrobuses on it.
Do you remember the bus war in Stafford back in 2015?
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:37:39 PM
Do you remember the bus war in Stafford back in 2015?
I don't I'm afraid. Not from that way so don't really know the network.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 09:40:13 PM
I don't I'm afraid. Not from that way so don't really know the network.
Select went on the 8 & 9 while social travel went on the 74
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:42:03 PM
Select went on the 8 & 9 while social travel went on the 74
Do Select still run on Stafford locals?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 09:47:27 PM
Do Select still run on Stafford locals?
yes on the 11 (Stafford-Coton Fields) & 12 (Stafford-Doxey) which is also run by arriva
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 09:51:57 PM
yes on the 11 (Stafford-Coton Fields) & 12 (Stafford-Doxey) which is also run by arriva
Do they do well?
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 01, 2019, 10:27:45 PM
Do they do well?
They do as arriva have reduced the 12 from every half hour to every hour due to low passenger numbers
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 01, 2019, 10:37:50 PM
They do as arriva have reduced the 12 from every half hour to every hour due to low passenger numbers
I sometimes wonder how Arriva survive in Stafford apart from the 5 and 825/74. Even the 74 a supposedly busy route formerly deckered gets solos quite a bit
Quote from: Bob on August 02, 2019, 07:59:25 AM
I sometimes wonder how Arriva survive in Stafford apart from the 5 and 825/74. Even the 74 a supposedly busy route formerly deckered gets solos quite a bit
The fact is Arriva stripped a once profitable Stafford depot to help Cannock & Telford resulting in the closure.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 02, 2019, 09:30:48 AM
The fact is Arriva stripped a once profitable Stafford depot to help Cannock & Telford resulting in the closure.
No they didn't. Stafford was an outstation of Cannock and was closed due to the withdrawal of less used routes caused by low passenger use and cuts to funding. It wasn't done to help Cannock & Telford.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 02, 2019, 09:55:54 AM
No they didn't. Stafford was an outstation of Cannock and was closed due to the withdrawal of less used routes caused by low passenger use and cuts to funding. It wasn't done to help Cannock & Telford.
Stafford was only made an outstation in Jan 2016 9 months before the closure, the 825 & 481 were Stafford depot routes which were transfered to Cannock & Telford to help them
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 02, 2019, 10:08:34 AM
Stafford was only made an outstation in Jan 2016 9 months before the closure, the 825 & 481 were Stafford depot routes which were transfered to Cannock & Telford to help them
But why would Telford need help? They operate a profitable network.
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 02, 2019, 10:15:04 AM
But why would Telford need help? They operate a profitable network.
Ok I agree with you on that one but arriva did transfer the 825 to Cannock to help them. tbf Stafford had a good network at one point.
They operated the following routes:
1 Stafford-Baswich
2 Stafford-Walton-On-The-Hill/Bednall
3 Stafford-Wildwood
4 Uttoxeter Town Circular
5 Stafford-Hixon
6 Stafford-Rickerscote
7 Stafford-Ten Butts Cresent
8 Stafford-Mosspit
9 Stafford-Highfields
10 Stafford-Parkside
11/11A Stafford-Coton Fields
12 Stafford-Doxey
66/67 Weston Rd Sch services
73 Stafford-Stafford Tech Park
74A Stafford-Cannock
76 Stafford-Wolverhampton
88/88A/88B Stafford-Perton & Wolverhampton
481 Stafford-Telford
482 Stafford-Church Eaton/Marston
825 Stafford-Tamworth
841 Stafford-Uttoxeter
432/433 Stafford-Eccleshall
X25 Stafford-Lichfield
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 02, 2019, 10:28:12 AM
Ok I agree with you on that one but arriva did transfer the 825 to Cannock to help them. tbf Stafford had a good network at one point.
They operated the following routes:
1 Stafford-Baswich
2 Stafford-Walton-On-The-Hill/Bednall
3 Stafford-Wildwood
4 Uttoxeter Town Circular
5 Stafford-Hixon
6 Stafford-Rickerscote
7 Stafford-Ten Butts Cresent
8 Stafford-Mosspit
9 Stafford-Highfields
10 Stafford-Parkside
11/11A Stafford-Coton Fields
12 Stafford-Doxey
66/67 Weston Rd Sch services
73 Stafford-Stafford Tech Park
74A Stafford-Cannock
76 Stafford-Wolverhampton
88/88A/88B Stafford-Perton & Wolverhampton
481 Stafford-Telford
482 Stafford-Church Eaton/Marston
825 Stafford-Tamworth
841 Stafford-Uttoxeter
432/433 Stafford-Eccleshall
X25 Stafford-Lichfield
It's all fine and well to have a network with many routes, but it's useless if no one uses it. I believe that the town services aren't used much but the interurban routes are.
Cannock had a good network at one point
Quote from: NXWMFAN1105 on August 02, 2019, 10:31:31 AM
It's all fine and well to have a network with many routes, but it's useless if no one uses it. I believe that the town services aren't used much but the interurban routes are.
And a fair number of services on that list were tendered routes anyway, not exactly moneyspinners. Or certainly not from the figures I used to see back in the day, hence why they are no longer operating.
If the town services weren't used that much they wouldn't be operating either.
Quote from: BusMan Greg on August 02, 2019, 10:28:12 AM
Ok I agree with you on that one but arriva did transfer the 825 to Cannock to help them. tbf Stafford had a good network at one point.
They operated the following routes:
1 Stafford-Baswich
2 Stafford-Walton-On-The-Hill/Bednall
3 Stafford-Wildwood
4 Uttoxeter Town Circular
5 Stafford-Hixon
6 Stafford-Rickerscote
7 Stafford-Ten Butts Cresent
8 Stafford-Mosspit
9 Stafford-Highfields
10 Stafford-Parkside
11/11A Stafford-Coton Fields
12 Stafford-Doxey
66/67 Weston Rd Sch services
73 Stafford-Stafford Tech Park
74A Stafford-Cannock
76 Stafford-Wolverhampton
88/88A/88B Stafford-Perton & Wolverhampton
481 Stafford-Telford
482 Stafford-Church Eaton/Marston
825 Stafford-Tamworth
841 Stafford-Uttoxeter
432/433 Stafford-Eccleshall
X25 Stafford-Lichfield
That explains where the 6, 7, 8, 9 and 12 numbers come from. Select run 11 on their own and share 12 with Arriva. The 1 is now called 827 and the 841 is ran by D&G.
I don't know how the X25 worked but the 826 skips Great Haywood to save time as this wasn't served before by the 825, it turned at the Lamb and Flag pub. Annoying as I had a friend who lived in Great Haywood for a brief time and at night to get home I had to walk all the way to the Lamb & Flag but now I could have walked 2 minutes to it.. typical. They were the good days when I could get the 825 > 75A > 2E and get home by midnight. Last 2E now is about half 7.
Did arriva expect much profit at Wednesfield depot?