A bit of a rant here now lets go...
What is this obsession from some folk about wiping the smaller operators out?
Do you fail to see that competition does us all good in the end ?
Some of these small operators are actually human beings, guys and girls who you would find in the pub on the weekend people who also have bills to pay and lifes to live. Ok they may not be up to the standard of NXWM but hey give them a chance.
Claribels Central Connect Central Buses Silverdale etc were once small operators give them all a chance. In this time how the economy is its good to have other operators.
Absolutely nothing wrong with smaller operators and competition is normally a good thing.
As long as they are not cowboys with dangerous and illegal vehicles on the road.
Its not a case of wipe them out but get them to clean their act up or leave the scene, not necessarly in a forceable manner as that would be illegal but in a way as to provide a more safer operator scene as to discourage Centro from considering actions which would do it via Quality Contracts (such as NEXUS).
Competition isnt always good ( gas & electricity. .people cant afford to heat their homes etc)) in the supposedly bad old days of public ownership how many knackered virtually unroadworthy buses from tin pot two bit cowboys did yousee rrunning services?
You can be a small operator and run a well maintained decent fleet of vehicles with a no frills service.
You can run rather more elderly buses, provided they are in a safe, roadworthy condition in accordance with the law.
What is unacceptable - whether its a large operator or a small fleet is to run services that are unreliable, with vehicles in an unacceptable condition with serious defects, and cream thousands of pounds out of the public purse for delivering a poor service.
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on October 16, 2013, 08:07:59 PM
You can be a small operator and run a well maintained decent fleet of vehicles with a no frills service.
You can run rather more elderly buses, provided they are in a safe, roadworthy condition in accordance with the law.
What is unacceptable - whether its a large operator or a small fleet is to run services that are unreliable, with vehicles in an unacceptable condition with serious defects, and cream thousands of pounds out of the public purse for delivering a poor service.
Silverline prove point 1
Coastal Liner prove point 2
Sadly VIP currently are part of point 3
I'm not being rude or anything, but the drivers who operate #16 at GRS Travel have quite a 'shoddy', for lack of a better word, route. Once, i've been on a service where the driver used the flyover instead of the Hockley Circus route, where people might've wanted to get off/on...
In my opinion GRS seem to be improving the most out of all the "little guys". VIP are now buying any old crap when they only used to buy Euro 3 darts, not to mention the sticky taped Windows and Joe's Travel well don't get me started... GRS now have at least 2 DDA compliant buses and have 3 with LED systems (although the Marshalls are yet to be setup) and they started out with a fleet of fence painted Lances! I also remember the owner talking to me about having a standard livery across the whole fleet soon so he is at least trying to improve.
How's Banga Buses in Wolverhampton these days?
They were 'popular' in the local rag at one point.
At one point the Express & Star ran a story about one of Banga's family that was working at TWM!
select prove all 3, however travel express could be like them but their image and a couple of their drivers playing games dont help
Much better and improved
Quote from: Westy on October 16, 2013, 09:22:01 PM
How's Banga Buses in Wolverhampton these days?
They were 'popular' in the local rag at one point.
At one point the Express & Star ran a story about one of Banga's family that was working at TWM!
Tell you what, I've always had respect for Banga, some of their buses do seem a bit scutty (ie the old merc minibuses) but they seem to be doing alright for themselves with the services they run. They've at least got buses in the same livery
Quote from: trident4370 on October 16, 2013, 09:11:19 PM
In my opinion GRS seem to be improving the most out of all the "little guys". VIP are now buying any old crap when they only used to buy Euro 3 darts, not to mention the sticky taped Windows and Joe's Travel well don't get me started... GRS now have at least 2 DDA compliant buses and have 3 with LED systems (although the Marshalls are yet to be setup) and they started out with a fleet of fence painted Lances! I also remember the owner talking to me about having a standard livery across the whole fleet soon so he is at least trying to improve.
True, VIP services should've just sticked to 424 and their coaches... Now that they run extra services like 650 & 101... It's all becoming a joke... Also, why are they running an NX99 service from a depot in Hockley? It's all a bit silly really... :-\ GRS is alright, but
VIP is gone far beyond a joke...
I think the 99 service fits in with other contracts they have in the area so the bus isn't doing nothing all day but I do agree something needs to be done about them as it is just a farce! "AMPM the Second" springs to mind with these numberplate swaps...
Quote from: trident4370 on October 17, 2013, 10:18:59 PM
I think the 99 service fits in with other contracts they have in the area so the bus isn't doing nothing all day but I do agree something needs to be done about them as it is just a farce! "AMPM the Second" springs to mind with these numberplate swaps...
Well, at least AMPM Travel was more organised. They had their own livery, a few settled routes, such as the 6. AMPM looked like a competitor to Diamond, rather than NXWM! ;D
Quote from: clayderman on October 18, 2013, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on October 17, 2013, 10:18:59 PM
I think the 99 service fits in with other contracts they have in the area so the bus isn't doing nothing all day but I do agree something needs to be done about them as it is just a farce! "AMPM the Second" springs to mind with these numberplate swaps...
Well, at least AMPM Travel was more organised. They had their own livery, a few settled routes, such as the 6. AMPM looked like a competitor to Diamond, rather than NXWM! ;D
Yeah until they started doing dodgy dealings, that is why Solihull Travel was born! I'm not sure exactly what happened but I believe it was something to do with Insurance or something(possibly Solihull Travel that I'm thinking of), ultimately ending up in the firms liquidation. Not to mention the issues with Centro and the Nbus tickets. A google search on ampm also brings up this amusing article http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/former-birmingham-bus-driver-branded-163178
Sorry but they were just as bent as VIP in my personal opinion.
Quote from: trident4370 on October 18, 2013, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: clayderman on October 18, 2013, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on October 17, 2013, 10:18:59 PM
I think the 99 service fits in with other contracts they have in the area so the bus isn't doing nothing all day but I do agree something needs to be done about them as it is just a farce! "AMPM the Second" springs to mind with these numberplate swaps...
Well, at least AMPM Travel was more organised. They had their own livery, a few settled routes, such as the 6. AMPM looked like a competitor to Diamond, rather than NXWM! ;D
Yeah until they started doing dodgy dealings, that is why Solihull Travel was born! I'm not sure exactly what happened but I believe it was something to do with Insurance or something(possibly Solihull Travel that I'm thinking of), ultimately ending up in the firms liquidation. Not to mention the issues with Centro and the Nbus tickets. A google search on ampm also brings up this amusing article http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/former-birmingham-bus-driver-branded-163178
Sorry but they were just as bent as VIP in my personal opinion.
I wasn't aware of that... ???
Quote from: clayderman on October 18, 2013, 06:04:08 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on October 18, 2013, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: clayderman on October 18, 2013, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on October 17, 2013, 10:18:59 PM
I think the 99 service fits in with other contracts they have in the area so the bus isn't doing nothing all day but I do agree something needs to be done about them as it is just a farce! "AMPM the Second" springs to mind with these numberplate swaps...
Well, at least AMPM Travel was more organised. They had their own livery, a few settled routes, such as the 6. AMPM looked like a competitor to Diamond, rather than NXWM! ;D
Yeah until they started doing dodgy dealings, that is why Solihull Travel was born! I'm not sure exactly what happened but I believe it was something to do with Insurance or something(possibly Solihull Travel that I'm thinking of), ultimately ending up in the firms liquidation. Not to mention the issues with Centro and the Nbus tickets. A google search on ampm also brings up this amusing article http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/former-birmingham-bus-driver-branded-163178
Sorry but they were just as bent as VIP in my personal opinion.
I wasn't aware of that... ???
Neither was I at first so dont worry about it ;) Just goes to show dishonesty and corner cutting will always come back to haunt you...
This is why I don't understand the fixation with "keeping all little guys" on the road, if they are knowingly flouting rules then why should they be allowed to continue?
Quote from: trident4370 on October 18, 2013, 06:14:07 PM
This is why I don't understand the fixation with "keeping all little guys" on the road, if they are knowingly flouting rules then why should they be allowed to continue?
As has already been pointed out, don't tar all 'little operators' with the same brush. Not all of them are cowboy operations.
Silverline are a good example; they may only operate 3 services (36, S9 and S10) but with the exception of some older Optare Solos, their fleet is very modern and well-presented.
I never said they were, the point I am making is why is everyone so keen on keeping everybody going despite the fact a fair few break the rules, if NX started taping up windows there would be a huge uproar from passengers. My point is competition is good but it shouldnt be a case of one rule for the little guy, one for everyone else...
Then it is up to us, as passengers, to complain about these smaller operators to Centro, where it is justified to do so.
I myself am not in a position to make any complaints, as I only use NXWM services myself, but if I was in a position where I was regularly using another operator, and I personally felt that operator was not operating their services to the standards that Centro expected (on subsidised services of course), then I would be perfectly entitled to make a complaint.
Quote from: Stu on October 18, 2013, 06:25:21 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on October 18, 2013, 06:14:07 PM
This is why I don't understand the fixation with "keeping all little guys" on the road, if they are knowingly flouting rules then why should they be allowed to continue?
As has already been pointed out, don't tar all 'little operators' with the same brush. Not all of them are cowboy operations.
Silverline are a good example; they may only operate 3 services (36, S9 and S10) but with the exception of some older Optare Solos, their fleet is very modern and well-presented.
Central Buses are another example
Quote from: Lukeee on October 18, 2013, 11:11:50 PM
Quote from: Stu on October 18, 2013, 06:25:21 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on October 18, 2013, 06:14:07 PM
This is why I don't understand the fixation with "keeping all little guys" on the road, if they are knowingly flouting rules then why should they be allowed to continue?
As has already been pointed out, don't tar all 'little operators' with the same brush. Not all of them are cowboy operations.
Silverline are a good example; they may only operate 3 services (36, S9 and S10) but with the exception of some older Optare Solos, their fleet is very modern and well-presented.
Central Buses are another example
I'd suggest Banga Buses as another, their fleet is of course not the most modern but seems to be properly maintained and in a smart livery. Never had anything bad to say about them, other than their buses hogging and blocking the 59 stop in Lichfield Street! ;)
I don't really understand why these examples are being put forward to my quote, I clearly said "if they are knowingly flouting rules then why should they be allowed to continue?" Central Buses, Silverline etc. Have never in my knowledge been caught doing anything naughty, and anyone who knows me will know I'm a big CB fan! Completely misunderstood the point I was making...
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
What eclipses can't go into the city centre on frequent routes?
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
What eclipses can't go into the city centre on frequent routes?
They all can. Single deckers from 1750 upwards are allowed (along with 801-830)
Quote from: John on October 19, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
What eclipses can't go into the city centre on frequent routes?
They all can. Single deckers from 1750 upwards are allowed (along with 801-830)
Exactly, perhaps Kevin meant Liberators?
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: John on October 19, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
What eclipses can't go into the city centre on frequent routes?
They all can. Single deckers from 1750 upwards are allowed (along with 801-830)
Exactly, perhaps Kevin meant Liberators?
Ok ignore the word Eclipses in my post, I thought Walsalls old Eclipses were not allowed. Either way, the rest of the post is valid yeah?
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 10:12:10 AM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: John on October 19, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
What eclipses can't go into the city centre on frequent routes?
They all can. Single deckers from 1750 upwards are allowed (along with 801-830)
Exactly, perhaps Kevin meant Liberators?
Ok ignore the word Eclipses in my post, I thought Walsalls old Eclipses were not allowed. Either way, the rest of the post is valid yeah?
From what I remember from reading the original agreement it did allow the occasional use of a non-compliant (emissions not DDA) in case of keeping a service running
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 10:12:10 AM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: John on October 19, 2013, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on October 19, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
Quote from: Kevin on October 19, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
I possibly have to add at this point (I know the thread is about "small operators" but)....
This whole "knowingly flouting the rules" things, what about NX putting presidents, mercs and eclipses on frequent routes that enter the city centre despite the emissions rule?
What eclipses can't go into the city centre on frequent routes?
They all can. Single deckers from 1750 upwards are allowed (along with 801-830)
Exactly, perhaps Kevin meant Liberators?
Ok ignore the word Eclipses in my post, I thought Walsalls old Eclipses were not allowed. Either way, the rest of the post is valid yeah?
They are supposed to be fined for not providing a min Euro 3 bus. If operational needs dictate it's either that or miss out the city centre bit of the route. It's hardly on the same scale as VIP with taped up windows & switching identities
I would just like to point out to people going on about Banga Buses being a respectable operator.
Banga Buses came about from the previous company Banga Travel, and is now operated by the original Mr Banga's son, after Mr Banga Sr was banned from operating the company.
I appreciate it was a few years ago (hence why some people may not be aware), but a quick search for Banga Travel on the Express & Star website will fill you in.
Quote from: notepanel on October 19, 2013, 08:50:20 PM
I would just like to point out to people going on about Banga Buses being a respectable operator.
Banga Buses came about from the previous company Banga Travel, and is now operated by the original Mr Banga's son, after Mr Banga Sr was banned from operating the company.
I appreciate it was a few years ago (hence why some people may not be aware), but a quick search for Banga Travel on the Express & Star website will fill you in.
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2006/12/02/banga-buses-are-banned/