This can be novelty. Realistic constraints don't have to be involved when making a decision. Which buses deserve new buses? I would nominate the 16, it's PB's most frequent route and it's still allocated sub-standard B7TL ALX and Gemini
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 10:59:59 PM
This can be novelty. Realistic constraints don't have to be involved when making a decision. Which buses deserve new buses? I would nominate the 16, it's PB's most frequent route and it's still allocated sub-standard B7TL ALX and Gemini
The 33 & 94 are PB's most frequent routes
I'd say the 94, purely because of the competition. If we were ignoring any competitors I'd probably say the 61/63/900/900E for various reasons.
Quote from: trident4370 on June 01, 2013, 11:14:23 PM
I'd say the 94, purely because of the competition.
I'd agree, Claribels buses put NX's to shame on the 94
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on June 01, 2013, 11:14:23 PM
I'd say the 94, purely because of the competition.
I'd agree, Claribels buses put NX's to shame on the 94
They really do! I can understand why Claribels seem so popular on there.
Quote from: trident4370 on June 01, 2013, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on June 01, 2013, 11:14:23 PM
I'd say the 94, purely because of the competition.
I'd agree, Claribels buses put NX's to shame on the 94
They really do! I can understand why Claribels seem so popular on there.
I'm surprised NX haven't responded more to the competition by introducing special return fares, branding & new buses are now long overdue, the 16 should also be due the same treatment....
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:23:41 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on June 01, 2013, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on June 01, 2013, 11:14:23 PM
I'd say the 94, purely because of the competition.
I'd agree, Claribels buses put NX's to shame on the 94
They really do! I can understand why Claribels seem so popular on there.
I'm surprised NX haven't responded more to the competition by introducing special return fares, branding & new buses are now long overdue
So am I, especially with the amount of effort that was made on the 37 when Diamond started, its almost like they're just not bothered!
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 10:59:59 PM
This can be novelty. Realistic constraints don't have to be involved when making a decision. Which buses deserve new buses? I would nominate the 16, it's PB's most frequent route and it's still allocated sub-standard B7TL ALX and Gemini
The 33 & 94 are PB's most frequent routes
No, they aren't. The 16 has a 6-7 minute daytime frequency, whereas the 33/94 only have a 7-8 minute frequency
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 11:25:40 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 10:59:59 PM
This can be novelty. Realistic constraints don't have to be involved when making a decision. Which buses deserve new buses? I would nominate the 16, it's PB's most frequent route and it's still allocated sub-standard B7TL ALX and Gemini
The 33 & 94 are PB's most frequent routes
No, they aren't. The 16 has a 6-7 minute daytime frequency, whereas the 33/94 only have a 7-8 minute frequency
According to NXWM site, the frequency of the 16 is 12 min Morning, 8min Daytime, the 33 & 94 are both 7/8 mins
Scrap the above, Shaun apologies, you are right, I've checked the more detailed timetable on the NWM site for the 16 and they indeed at a 6/7 frequency, the frequency guide on the NXWM website is a load of rubbish!
Well i find with frequent services that you wait for over 10-15 minutes and 2/3 turn up at once
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 01, 2013, 11:40:31 PM
Well i find with frequent services that you wait for over 10-15 minutes and 2/3 turn up at once
The 9 is just like that. The other day I saw no less than 7 all within a few minutes of each other! Then none for about 20 minutes!
Quote from: nitromatt1 on June 01, 2013, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 01, 2013, 11:40:31 PM
Well i find with frequent services that you wait for over 10-15 minutes and 2/3 turn up at once
The 9 is just like that. The other day I saw no less than 7 all within a few minutes of each other! Then none for about 20 minutes!
Sorry to be pedantic but the other day you were on holiday ;)
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 01, 2013, 11:51:41 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on June 01, 2013, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on June 01, 2013, 11:40:31 PM
Well i find with frequent services that you wait for over 10-15 minutes and 2/3 turn up at once
The 9 is just like that. The other day I saw no less than 7 all within a few minutes of each other! Then none for about 20 minutes!
Sorry to be pedantic but the other day you were on holiday ;)
Oh go to bed Nathan ;) you know what I mean ;D
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 11:25:40 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 10:59:59 PM
This can be novelty. Realistic constraints don't have to be involved when making a decision. Which buses deserve new buses? I would nominate the 16, it's PB's most frequent route and it's still allocated sub-standard B7TL ALX and Gemini
The 33 & 94 are PB's most frequent routes
No, they aren't. The 16 has a 6-7 minute daytime frequency, whereas the 33/94 only have a 7-8 minute frequency
According to NXWM site, the frequency of the 16 is 12 min Morning, 8min Daytime, the 33 & 94 are both 7/8 mins
Scrap the above, Shaun apologies, you are right, I've checked the more detailed timetable of the NWM site for the 16 are they indeed at a 6/7 frequency, the frequency guide on the NXWM website is a load of rubbish!
It's fine. It's only natural to think the 33 is more frequent than the 16, because it has newer buses. I know too much about frequencies ::)
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 11:54:50 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 11:25:40 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 01, 2013, 11:08:36 PM
Quote from: Shaun on June 01, 2013, 10:59:59 PM
This can be novelty. Realistic constraints don't have to be involved when making a decision. Which buses deserve new buses? I would nominate the 16, it's PB's most frequent route and it's still allocated sub-standard B7TL ALX and Gemini
The 33 & 94 are PB's most frequent routes
No, they aren't. The 16 has a 6-7 minute daytime frequency, whereas the 33/94 only have a 7-8 minute frequency
According to NXWM site, the frequency of the 16 is 12 min Morning, 8min Daytime, the 33 & 94 are both 7/8 mins
Scrap the above, Shaun apologies, you are right, I've checked the more detailed timetable of the NWM site for the 16 are they indeed at a 6/7 frequency, the frequency guide on the NXWM website is a load of rubbish!
It's fine. It's only natural to think the 33 is more frequent than the 16, because it has newer buses. I know too much about frequencies ::)
Tbh, I thought the 94 was the most frequent, didn't realize the 16 was quite so frequent these days, haven't used it for a good while.
Maybe any investment in new double deckers for PB would be better allocated to the 16 & 94 due to the competition providing superior quality buses over the Sutton Lines?
i say every route at pensnett to compensate years of other garages sh?t buses
94 definately, the operations director bloke reckons, they will be making some sort of upgrade later in the year. Agree the competitions buses put NX to shame, also agree its seems like they are not bothered. Especially since Lea Hall closed.
Completely agree with the 94, it hasn't seen new buses since the Tridents first arrived at Lea Hall, and Claribels' buses are squeaky clean as well as brand new. The fares are cheaper, the buses are brighter, quicker and much more modern... no wonder Claribels do so well on the route! Same with the 16 I agree, these are two routes that are given whatever is left over after other routes have come first and as two of PB's busiest routes they deserve a lot better. I never, never understood why the 33 has always had such preferential treatment when there are much quicker routes to where it goes i.e. 934, 935, 997
Another one I'd nominate is the 97. I know they've already branded Tridents for it so new buses are unlikely but as one of NXWM's most frequent routes, if not the most frequent alongside the 50, it deserves flagship status, especially now it runs all night.
Also the 900 and 957 should get some sort of express branding and new buses.
Either way i think PB will get some of the new E400 for the 16/94 and would probably be used on the sutton lines and 33 sometimes
It seems ironic that NXWM went very defensive when connect arrived on the 37 which it did terribly on but claribels seems to make a killing on the 94 and national express dont respond??!!
The 900 takes ages tho, if they branded it express people would think they were takin the mick lol! It should have some buses with coach seats tho like it used to
Quote from: bob on June 02, 2013, 10:53:37 AM
The 900 takes ages tho, if they branded it express people would think they were takin the mick lol! It should have some buses with coach seats tho like it used to
The 900 as an express service with dual purpose seating was only really viable while the train service was so poor and slow. The train service is now a hundred times better than it was so the 900 is more about local connections than going from Birmingham to Coventry.
A true express service between Coventry and Birmingham in order to be effective would have to mirror the Red Arrow type services between Nottingham and Derby, with no stopping. I'm amazed nobody ever tried it, but not that NX didn't, as they lack imagination.
The opposite is true for instance of the Walsall to Birmingham corridor, where the X51 can actually be quicker than the train and far more frequent.
Quote from: Peter123 on June 02, 2013, 10:42:35 AM
It seems ironic that NXWM went very defensive when connect arrived on the 37 which it did terribly on but claribels seems to make a killing on the 94 and national express dont respond??!!
Wouldn't be surprised if they have some sort of secret agreement. When Claribels first joined I remember when they went very defensive and made the route almost every 4 mins between the city and Arran Way. (When Lynx's used to operate it).
The Tame Valley days they went that bit further by buying up the company.
There was a lot more to Tame Valley than just another local competition bus company. WMT must have been very nervous by having one of the newly forming big groups make such an impact on their door step. I've since learned that Washwood Heath garage was almost closed down as a result. Tame Valley were all over East Birmingham. Routes 26,28,55,94,97,663. Plus a couple in North Birmingham/Walsall. I'm sure the £1M cash paid for the old knackered fleet made them very happy.
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:05:38 PM
There was a lot more to Tame Valley than just another local competition bus company. WMT must have been very nervous by having one of the newly forming big groups make such an impact on their door step. I've since learned that Washwood Heath garage was almost closed down as a result. Tame Valley were all over East Birmingham. Routes 26,28,55,94,97,663. Plus a couple in North Birmingham/Walsall. I'm sure the £1M cash paid for the old knackered fleet made them very happy.
Tame Valley did make a big impact and quite quickly, they were backed financially by one of the big groups rather than owned weren't they?
That may have been the situation. All got a bit muddled in the brain over the years. Frontline were another group to take on East Birmingham, using mostly ex WMT buses and part of Bagerline I believe. I liked them, a Routemaster on the 94, epic!
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:10:49 PM
That may have been the situation. All got a bit muddled in the brain over the years. Frontline were another group to take on East Birmingham, using mostly ex WMT buses and part of Bagerline I believe. I liked them, a Routemaster on the 94, epic!
I think Tame Valley may have been back by Stagecoach?
It was Frontline that were taken over by Bagerline who in turn merged with GRT Holdings to become First Bus, I don't recall Frontline competing with WMT on any great scale
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 12:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:10:49 PM
That may have been the situation. All got a bit muddled in the brain over the years. Frontline were another group to take on East Birmingham, using mostly ex WMT buses and part of Bagerline I believe. I liked them, a Routemaster on the 94, epic!
I think Tame Valley may have been back by Stagecoach?
It was Frontline that were taken over by Bagerline who in turn merged with GRT Holdings to become First Bus, I don't recall Frontline competing with WMT on any great scale
Most of Frontline's activity in the West Midlands was tendered, the 94 was a bit of an anomaly. Their primary focus was to engage Midland Red North although I was never really sure what the Badgerline Group were hoping to achieve with that.
In the event I think it was more of a tactic than an actual concrete plan as all they did was retain the competing services that already existed under its previous guise, Burman Travel. Badgerline only acquired one new vehicle for Frontline, the only other acquisitions being elderly cast offs from other Badgerline operators. They quickly lost interest and sold up to Drawlane/Cowie.
Tame valley was either backed or owned by British Bus (if I remember correctly)
And Frontline operated commercially on the 94 and 96(or was it the 97) as well as their tendered work.
Quote from: andy on June 02, 2013, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 12:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:10:49 PM
That may have been the situation. All got a bit muddled in the brain over the years. Frontline were another group to take on East Birmingham, using mostly ex WMT buses and part of Bagerline I believe. I liked them, a Routemaster on the 94, epic!
I think Tame Valley may have been back by Stagecoach?
It was Frontline that were taken over by Bagerline who in turn merged with GRT Holdings to become First Bus, I don't recall Frontline competing with WMT on any great scale
Most of Frontline's activity in the West Midlands was tendered, the 94 was a bit of an anomaly. Their primary focus was to engage Midland Red North although I was never really sure what the Badgerline Group were hoping to achieve with that.
In the event I think it was more of a tactic than an actual concrete plan as all they did was retain the competing services that already existed under its previous guise, Burman Travel. Badgerline only acquired one new vehicle for Frontline, the only other acquisitions being elderly cast offs from other Badgerline operators. They quickly lost interest and sold up to Drawlane/Cowie.
Thanks Andy, some of those bits I can remember, but I'm really straining the memory banks with that!
Wasn't Serverse Travel related to the Burman / Frontline original owners as well? They competed with WMT on the 96 & 97at least
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/sets/72157623425116599/detail/
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
Tame valley was either backed or owned by British Bus (if I remember correctly)
And Frontline operated commercially on the 94 and 96(or was it the 97) as well as their tendered work.
They did have a spell on the 97 I think yes, but by the time Badgerline got hold of them they had packed up on both and had no commercial activity in the West Mids. Although interestingly Badgerline was quite happy to let Frontline go up against MRW for tenders in the area.
There was a suspicion that British Bus was involved in Tame Valley but that stopped making sense when Tame Valley began swallowing tendered work up around Tamworth.
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
Tame valley was either backed or owned by British Bus (if I remember correctly)
And Frontline operated commercially on the 94 and 96(or was it the 97) as well as their tendered work.
Oh right, thanks for that Gareth, for some reason I had it in my head it was Stagecoach, due to them missing out on the opportunity to buy WMT in Dec 1991?
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: andy on June 02, 2013, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 12:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:10:49 PM
That may have been the situation. All got a bit muddled in the brain over the years. Frontline were another group to take on East Birmingham, using mostly ex WMT buses and part of Bagerline I believe. I liked them, a Routemaster on the 94, epic!
I think Tame Valley may have been back by Stagecoach?
It was Frontline that were taken over by Bagerline who in turn merged with GRT Holdings to become First Bus, I don't recall Frontline competing with WMT on any great scale
Most of Frontline's activity in the West Midlands was tendered, the 94 was a bit of an anomaly. Their primary focus was to engage Midland Red North although I was never really sure what the Badgerline Group were hoping to achieve with that.
In the event I think it was more of a tactic than an actual concrete plan as all they did was retain the competing services that already existed under its previous guise, Burman Travel. Badgerline only acquired one new vehicle for Frontline, the only other acquisitions being elderly cast offs from other Badgerline operators. They quickly lost interest and sold up to Drawlane/Cowie.
Thanks Andy, some of those bits I can remember, but I'm really straining the memory banks with that!
Wasn't Serverse Travel related to the Burman / Frontline original owners as well? They competed with WMT on the 96 & 97at least
https://www.flickr.com/photos/44483738@N05/sets/72157623425116599/detail/
Yes, Serverse was created by a member of the management team from Burman Travel who left upon the formation of Frontline, they used Burman's old yard and took many of their drivers and fitters.
Quote from: Winston on June 02, 2013, 12:38:05 PM
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 12:31:48 PM
Tame valley was either backed or owned by British Bus (if I remember correctly)
And Frontline operated commercially on the 94 and 96(or was it the 97) as well as their tendered work.
Oh right, thanks for that Gareth, for some reason I had it in my head it was Stagecoach, due to them missing out on the opportunity to buy WMT in Dec 1991?
Gareth, Wicki backs up your info on Tame Valley, was in 1993 when WMT took over Tame Valley & removed them off the streets virtually overnight?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tame_Valley_Travel_Limited
Good to know the memory still works, thanks for the link Winston.
To pay the price they did for a fleet of buses, the vast majority going for scrap was a brave move, but they were obviously very concerned with the competition and the price was worth it.
I heard from someone, either someone to do with TVT or Drawlane, that they had £500,000 up front and the remaining £500,000 after they closed down. And yes, i do believe it was pretty much overnight. He claims to still have a copy of the first cheque.
TVT were also operating the 663 at the time, they took it over from MRW. WMT had it for a short time after Tame Valley closed, before Stevensons took it on. Only to go back to WMT, then Petes, then Zak's, then Cental connect and now Blue Diamond as the 53. Lots of operators!
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 03:58:24 PM
Good to know the memory still works, thanks for the link Winston.
To pay the price they did for a fleet of buses, the vast majority going for scrap was a brave move, but they were obviously very concerned with the competition and the price was worth it.
I heard from someone, either someone to do with TVT or Drawlane, that they had £500,000 up front and the remaining £500,000 after they closed down. And yes, i do believe it was pretty much overnight. He claims to still have a copy of the first cheque.
TVT were also operating the 663 at the time, they took it over from MRW. WMT had it for a short time after Tame Valley closed, before Stevensons took it on. Only to go back to WMT, then Petes, then Zak's, then Cental connect and now Blue Diamond as the 53. Lots of operators!
Do remember that anyone can put articles on wikipedia and they don't have to be facts! I don't know any more about this so I am not doubting its accuracy, but that article could have been written by anyone on heresay alone. I do know someone who will know the facts who now volunteers at Aston Manor of Road Transport, so I must ask him when I next see him
Quote from: Tony on June 02, 2013, 09:42:44 PM
Quote from: Gareth on June 02, 2013, 03:58:24 PM
Good to know the memory still works, thanks for the link Winston.
To pay the price they did for a fleet of buses, the vast majority going for scrap was a brave move, but they were obviously very concerned with the competition and the price was worth it.
I heard from someone, either someone to do with TVT or Drawlane, that they had £500,000 up front and the remaining £500,000 after they closed down. And yes, i do believe it was pretty much overnight. He claims to still have a copy of the first cheque.
TVT were also operating the 663 at the time, they took it over from MRW. WMT had it for a short time after Tame Valley closed, before Stevensons took it on. Only to go back to WMT, then Petes, then Zak's, then Cental connect and now Blue Diamond as the 53. Lots of operators!
Do remember that anyone can put articles on wikipedia and they don't have to be facts! I don't know any more about this so I am not doubting its accuracy, but that article could have been written by anyone on heresay alone. I do know someone who will know the facts who now volunteers at Aston Manor of Road Transport, so I must ask him when I next see him
Cheers Tony, Wicki was the best we could find at the time
To go back to the original topic just for a minute...
Although the 16 is my other local route (for either when I get bored of the Walsall Road, the train's cancelled or I fancy actually traveling by bus on a sunday instead of waiting forever for one) I genuinely would not say the 16 needs upgrading, it isnt really that much of a prestige route in my eyes.
I would definitely say the Bristol road should be upgraded, such a major route through the uni and to the major new developments in Longbridge etc, always busy in both directions I've found.
(It also needs night buses, but thats a different arguement that I'm never going to win)
Quote from: Kevin on June 03, 2013, 09:06:55 PM
To go back to the original topic just for a minute...
Although the 16 is my other local route (for either when I get bored of the Walsall Road, the train's cancelled or I fancy actually traveling by bus on a sunday instead of waiting forever for one) I genuinely would not say the 16 needs upgrading, it isnt really that much of a prestige route in my eyes.
I would definitely say the Bristol road should be upgraded, such a major route through the uni and to the major new developments in Longbridge etc, always busy in both directions I've found.
(It also needs night buses, but thats a different arguement that I'm never going to win)
I actually agree with everything you've said here about the Bristol Road routes!
The 24 needs an upgrade. It seriously lowers the tone over this side of the city with the 22/23 having 61 plates, the 29/29A 12 plates, and the 99 62 plates. ;)
Oh, and agree on the Bristol Road - shockingly neglected for years.
Quote from: Mike K on June 04, 2013, 11:07:43 PM
The 24 needs an upgrade. It seriously lowers the tone over this side of the city with the 22/23 having 61 plates, the 29/29A 12 plates, and the 99 62 plates. ;)
Oh, and agree on the Bristol Road - shockingly neglected for years.
But the 24 still gets hybrids doesn't it? The 22/3/4 work like the WN1/59 with spare hybrids going onto BC24 and WN59
Yes, tongue in cheek comment again (winkie icon). The 24 gets 1 or 2 hybrids Mon to Sat and is usually fully hybrid on Sun.
Quote from: Mike K on June 04, 2013, 11:07:43 PM
The 24 needs an upgrade. It seriously lowers the tone over this side of the city with the 22/23 having 61 plates, the 29/29A 12 plates, and the 99 62 plates. ;)
Oh, and agree on the Bristol Road - shockingly neglected for years.
Taking the mick i think complete over investment in some areas and next to none in others in my humble view.