A good initiative. To be honest I don't know how widespread this is elsewhere but the last tram/bus of the night in Amsterdam was similarly guaranteed when I lived there.
Not that I rely on the last bus of the day much these days.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/last-bus-promise-included-in-new-passenger-charter/
Quote from: cardew on January 10, 2024, 07:30:49 PMA good initiative. To be honest I don't know how widespread this is elsewhere but the last tram/bus of the night in Amsterdam was similarly guaranteed when I lived there.
Not that I rely on the last bus of the day much these days.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/last-bus-promise-included-in-new-passenger-charter/
It's good but I wonder if it'll apply to all routes/variations of routes?
Would school/works routes be included?
Would peak time only routes (e.g. X15) be included?
Would variations of routes (such as the last X13 to go to Hams Hall) be included?
Just some initial thoughts.
Quote from: mesub on January 10, 2024, 07:34:06 PMIt's good but I wonder if it'll apply to all routes/variations of routes?
Would school/works routes be included?
Would peak time only routes (e.g. X15) be included?
Would variations of routes (such as the last X13 to go to Hams Hall) be included?
Just some initial thoughts.
Good points. As in The Netherlands, qualifying journeys will need to be marked on the timetables or the admin could escalate.
Quote from: cardew on January 10, 2024, 07:30:49 PMA good initiative. To be honest I don't know how widespread this is elsewhere but the last tram/bus of the night in Amsterdam was similarly guaranteed when I lived there.
Not that I rely on the last bus of the day much these days.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/last-bus-promise-included-in-new-passenger-charter/
I just saw this on Facebook and Twitter posted by Andy Street.
Yeah I know, "election year" and all that, but this sounds like it is going ahead regardless of who is Mayor after May.
My questions are simply as follows:
Who pays for this, ie how is it funded?
How will it work? ie on what basis will it be determined if such a claim is eligible?
And how will passengers be able to claim this, and what evidence will be required on their part?
Simple, Just run a proper bus service to the advertised time tables and there won't be any claims.
Quote from: Mayfield on January 10, 2024, 08:45:25 PMSimple, Just run a proper bus service to the advertised time tables and there won't be any claims.
But what if that's not possible?
So I can claim compensation if my last bus/tram never turns up. Wonder how long it took to think that idea up. NX have always been happy to reimburse taxi fares if a last bus turns up. Just get a receipt off the driver & then email it to NX.
I've had two refunds in two years
Why not, for example, earlier journeys on the evening service, especially if you have to be in for a certain time on the night shift & the service is only hourly, as my sister had to go out for an earlier bus on most occasions & on a few occasions, she's had to fork out for a taxi?
Mmmmm sounds like a pre-election vote for me gimmick /sweetener and what is it actually worth?
How much is a taxi fare if the last bus gets canned?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on January 11, 2024, 07:48:11 AMMmmmm sounds like a pre-election vote for me gimmick /sweetener and what is it actually worth?
How much is a taxi fare if the last bus gets canned?
About a tenner I think from Bloxwich to Wednesfield, & it doubles/increases at certain peak times of the year!
What if the last bus on say a route like the 29 gets attacked by yobs. Then who is paying, cus that ay NX's fault
What about bus routes that finish at about 6pm will you be able to claime if that bus doesn't run?
Better make sure hydrogens are not allocated to last journeys as NX would be bankrupt in a month.
Quote from: Mayfield on January 11, 2024, 12:25:03 PMBetter make sure hydrogens are not allocated to last journeys as NX would be bankrupt in a month.
It's bold of you to assume the hydrogens will last all day :wink:
Quote from: Coventrybususer95 on January 11, 2024, 12:01:01 PMWhat about bus routes that finish at about 6pm will you be able to claime if that bus doesn't run?
The way I'm reading this, it wouldn't apply, as the argument could be made that alternative bus services would be available that ran later into the evening, so you could still get home, even if less directly.
Details of the last bus promise are on the TfWM Bus Passengers Charter page here -
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/ (https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/)
The promise appears under "Your bus journeys".
The promise is to reimburse reasonable costs for an equivalent journey so, as Stu indicates, I would assume that the starting point will be "could the journey be done using one or more other bus services?"
The subject will raise several questions, but I have other things to do with my spare time than think of a load of scenarios. But one question - does another Combined Authority or similar offer a last bus of the day promise?
Quote from: Justin Tyme on January 11, 2024, 09:31:20 PMDetails of the last bus promise are on the TfWM Bus Passengers Charter page here -
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/ (https://www.tfwm.org.uk/plan-your-journey/ways-to-travel/buses-in-the-west-midlands/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/west-midlands-bus-passenger-s-charter/)
The promise appears under "Your bus journeys".
The promise is to reimburse reasonable costs for an equivalent journey so, as Stu indicates, I would assume that the starting point will be "could the journey be done using one or more other bus services?"
The subject will raise several questions, but I have other things to do with my spare time than think of a load of scenarios. But one question - does another Combined Authority or similar offer a last bus of the day promise?
LandFlight offer this. Whether this is a requirement for TfWM contracts, I don't know.
Last bus of the day promise : If the last bus of the day does not run or departs early causing you to be stranded, you will be reimbursed reasonable costs for an equivalent journey. Any claim must be made in writing within 28 days of the incident and include evidence of additional expenses incurred.https://www.landflight.co.uk/bus-services/
Quote from: Stu on January 11, 2024, 08:55:26 PMThe way I'm reading this, it wouldn't apply, as the argument could be made that alternative bus services would be available that ran later into the evening, so you could still get home, even if less directly.
A few months ago the last 11 from Dudley to Walsall never showed up. So what would have been my alternative route?
One night a few weeks ago Diamond chose not to run any 42 services. I wonder if ppl got taxis & claimed it back from Diamond
Quote from: Mayfield on January 10, 2024, 08:45:25 PMSimple, Just run a proper bus service to the advertised time tables and there won't be any claims.
impossible to run every bus to advertised timetables even last buses, anti social behaviour, folks falling ill on the bus, RTA's, breakdowns, diversions, road works, acts of vandalism,bad weather, as a driver i have experienced all of this and more.
To drivers the times stated on running boards is just a guide its not set in stone, drivers only responsibility to timetables is don't leave early unless told to do so by an inspector or traffic office. Folks FORGET drivers are people not machines we drive at different paces, if i'm not in mood i drive slower sod the timetable it about finishing the duty in safe manner END OF.
Wow you have a wonder attitude towards your job.
Quote from: Mayfield on January 14, 2024, 02:13:51 PMWow you have a wonder attitude towards your job.
I would take a guess that 2900 is a careful driver who has had minimal incidents over the years. I'm sure his passengers would rather get from a to b safely even if, at times, they may run a few minutes late.
I don't know what CPC recommendations NXWM use, but at First we were encouraged to use the Smith's system of driving to minimise incidents. As part of this, we were encouraged to spend an extra few seconds at stops (to ensure passengers sat down, etc). These few seconds add up to maybe 5 minutes over a full journey yet drastically reduce incidents on board the bus.
Driving slower for safety reasons is completely different to those drivers who purposefully drive slowly so the bus behind has to pick up their passengers - that is unprofessional driving yet what 2900 details is perfectly reasonable in my view.
Quote from: j789 on January 14, 2024, 03:24:01 PMI would take a guess that 2900 is a careful driver who has had minimal incidents over the years. I'm sure his passengers would rather get from a to b safely even if, at times, they may run a few minutes late.
I don't know what CPC recommendations NXWM use, but at First we were encouraged to use the Smith's system of driving to minimise incidents. As part of this, we were encouraged to spend an extra few seconds at stops (to ensure passengers sat down, etc). These few seconds add up to maybe 5 minutes over a full journey yet drastically reduce incidents on board the bus.
Driving slower for safety reasons is completely different to those drivers who purposefully drive slowly so the bus behind has to pick up their passengers - that is unprofessional driving yet what 2900 details is perfectly reasonable in my view.
Exactly correct, Safety trumps everything else
Driving safely and competently is highly commended.
"if i'm not in mood i drive slower sod the timetable" That, however is a disgusting attitude.
Quote from: j789 on January 14, 2024, 03:24:01 PMI would take a guess that 2900 is a careful driver who has had minimal incidents over the years. I'm sure his passengers would rather get from a to b safely even if, at times, they may run a few minutes late.
I don't know what CPC recommendations NXWM use, but at First we were encouraged to use the Smith's system of driving to minimise incidents. As part of this, we were encouraged to spend an extra few seconds at stops (to ensure passengers sat down, etc). These few seconds add up to maybe 5 minutes over a full journey yet drastically reduce incidents on board the bus.
Driving slower for safety reasons is completely different to those drivers who purposefully drive slowly so the bus behind has to pick up their passengers - that is unprofessional driving yet what 2900 details is perfectly reasonable in my view.
NX do something similar from my experience as a Passenger they wait a few seconds for passengers to get to the seat. I would rather that than on a few other operators they pull off and get that bus into motion before I am even past the Wheelchair bay then forcing me to swing of the Grabrail to a seat. If you aren't at a seat by the time the NX driver pulls off they pull of slowly and safely so you don't fall or cause injury ie cuts or bruises as you get bashed around.
The 13A from Bearwood to Blackheath has plenty of seniors use this service i give them all the time in the world to be seated, experience and all the extra health/Safety training has brought on a different approach, somebody said some where you don't know what underlying health problems seniors could have, trips and falls could greatly do a lot of harm.
i wish i had this knowledge when i started as young naive kid back then.
Driving that bit slower also avoids excessive waiting at timing points, keep bus rolling if on time or minute or 2 down, punters thank you for it. As a kid it was hammer time between timing points and getting to terminus early different times eh.
Quote from: Gareth on January 14, 2024, 04:28:54 PMDriving safely and competently is highly commended.
"if i'm not in mood i drive slower sod the timetable" That, however is a disgusting attitude.
IS it are you a driver please share ,if you have had an incident on the bus your mood is greatly affected its called mental stress every one deals with it in there own way, THE RED MIST DESCENDING is a dangerous one, if others piss me off for just driving a bus i will drive slowly to get to relief point safely and i,ll pop into the Wetherspoons for a pint before i go home, my way of de'stressing and not taking my shitty day home, its not for every one but it works for me seeing friendly faces over a beverage.
Quote from: Tony on January 10, 2024, 09:12:42 PMBut what if that's not possible?
once upon a time (not giving details) i was with a driver on 2 occasions when they were the last bus of the night, "GUARANTEED" was one word used "LAST BUS MUST RUN" was also stated, he broke down with fuel starvation (Metrobus), change bus was brought out and on one occasion it was a Fleetline, which he said was allowed to refuse as it was a late night duty, control told him as its the last service of the night, it must run, so you cannot refuse the Fleetline, you should have heard the language (off radio)
a month later it happened again, this time he got a National 2.
The Moral is there is always a change bus available so Last Bus Should Always Run, a fact that seems to have gone by the way side now, the last 87 rarely runs now
Quote from: Celestial Toymaker on January 18, 2024, 04:29:26 PMonce upon a time (not giving details) i was with a driver on 2 occasions when they were the last bus of the night, "GUARANTEED" was one word used "LAST BUS MUST RUN" was also stated, he broke down with fuel starvation (Metrobus), change bus was brought out and on one occasion it was a Fleetline, which he said was allowed to refuse as it was a late night duty, control told him as its the last service of the night, it must run, so you cannot refuse the Fleetline, you should have heard the language (off radio)
a month later it happened again, this time he got a National 2.
The Moral is there is always a change bus available so Last Bus Should Always Run, a fact that seems to have gone by the way side now, the last 87 rarely runs now
Agreed I was always told the last bus of the night should run, indeed when I was a driver I've had instances when my bus has broken down or had windows smashed etc and I've had to have a replacement come out to run the last trip, however this is easier said than done due to the driver shortages these days
Quote from: 2900 on January 16, 2024, 12:18:11 AMThe 13A from Bearwood to Blackheath has plenty of seniors use this service i give them all the time in the world to be seated, experience and all the extra health/Safety training has brought on a different approach, somebody said some where you don't know what underlying health problems seniors could have, trips and falls could greatly do a lot of harm.
i wish i had this knowledge when i started as young naive kid back then.
Driving that bit slower also avoids excessive waiting at timing points, keep bus rolling if on time or minute or 2 down, punters thank you for it. As a kid it was hammer time between timing points and getting to terminus early different times eh.
Yep, different times. The days of get on the Fleetline quickly, hold tight as the bus moves off and brace yourself when the bus brakes (and the brakes could be fierce) are way in the past.
Not as fast-paced as it was, but smoother for everyone now as well as safer.