I'm not sure where to put this so I started a new topic but NXWM seem to have won the contract for operating sprint with articulated vehicles introduced in 2023. https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/national-express-to-run-zero-emission-sprint-bus-services/
Quote from: bususer28 on January 27, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
I'm not sure where to put this so I started a new topic but NXWM seem to have won the contract for operating sprint with articulated vehicles introduced in 2023. https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/national-express-to-run-zero-emission-sprint-bus-services/
I don't think there was any doubt that NX Bus would end up operating the Sprint services to be honest, it was a bit of a formality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNHLMn1ropY
That was so crass, it should have the Eastenders* theme at the beginning & the end...
* Or Crossroads, more apt & of the same substantiality
Quote from: bususer28 on January 27, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
I'm not sure where to put this so I started a new topic but NXWM seem to have won the contract for operating sprint with articulated vehicles introduced in 2023. https://www.tfwm.org.uk/news/national-express-to-run-zero-emission-sprint-bus-services/
So it's gonna use both the hydrogen and the tram-buses?
Quote from: Busboy105 on January 27, 2021, 08:27:21 PM
So it's gonna use both the hydrogen and the tram-buses?
If you read the article, it is explained there.
QuoteThe new services will first launch in May 2022 with a fleet of zero-emission double decker Platinum buses, which will be able to beat traffic jams and offer reliable journey times by using dedicated bus lanes and priority measures at junctions along the routes which will cross Birmingham and join Walsall and Solihull for the first time.
This new fleet will include 20 environmentally friendly hydrogen-fuelled buses funded by Birmingham City Council.
The bus company is also working with Transport for West Midlands (TfWM) as the transport authority, to confirm plans to introduce the first of a further fleet of high quality zero emission, low floor tram-style vehicles on the route during 2023. These tram-style buses have proved popular with customers on similar rapid transit services across Europe and the UK.
Quote from: Stu on January 27, 2021, 06:58:50 PM
I don't think there was any doubt that NX Bus would end up operating the Sprint services to be honest, it was a bit of a formality.
I agree - it's the obvious choice.
I am glad to see timescales being announced now (if only tramway openings could be announced in advance ...) and it will be very interesting to see "tram-style vehicles" operate alongside the double decks in 2023.
I do wonder if these "confirming plans" may involve gentle persuasion that with increasing costs with buying/importing from Europe and vehicles likely to have more people standing in close proximity (probably crowding by the doors) these may not be the most sensible option? Time will tell.
I'm not sure why anyone on here thinks NXWM operating Sprint should be a 'formality'. I would hope that powers under the Bus Service Act 2017 have ensured a full process has been undertaken to determine the successful operator?
Quote from: Stu on January 27, 2021, 06:58:50 PM
I don't think there was any doubt that NX Bus would end up operating the Sprint services to be honest, it was a bit of a formality.
NX just need to find a brand new depot now that is designed for these tram style vehicles ;D
Quote from: metrocity on January 28, 2021, 10:29:43 AM
NX just need to find a brand new depot now that is designed for these tram style vehicles ;D
The provisions were shown in the plans for the new Perry Barr garage.
Quote from: ellspurs on January 28, 2021, 04:00:23 PM
The provisions were shown in the plans for the new Perry Barr garage.
Yes - my comment was tongue in cheek. Interesting use of state aid.
Quote from: Straightlines on January 28, 2021, 09:23:28 AM
I'm not sure why anyone on here thinks NXWM operating Sprint should be a 'formality'. I would hope that powers under the Bus Service Act 2017 have ensured a full process has been undertaken to determine the successful operator?
I only said it was a 'formality' as it would have been highly unusual if some other company had won this contract.
The contract did go out to tender, but I remember reading some time ago that the WMCA had changed their minds about purchasing vehicles, and had also stated that the Sprint services would use 'zero-emission' vehicles which the operator would have to provide.
At that point, I couldn't see The Green Bus, Claribels or Thandi Coaches successfully becoming the new Sprint operator. ::)
Some other 'big national' operator like First or Stagecoach might have stood a chance, no idea if they bid or not.
But really, it was only ever going to be NX Bus who ended up operating the Sprint services.
Quote from: cardew on January 28, 2021, 08:49:18 AM
I do wonder if these "confirming plans" may involve gentle persuasion that with increasing costs with buying/importing from Europe and vehicles likely to have more people standing in close proximity (probably crowding by the doors) these may not be the most sensible option? Time will tell.
It does seem a bit strange, why not start with the 'bendi-buses' (sorry, "tram-like buses") from day one?
It does seem that there may be some 'rolling back' or down-scaling of plans, and this new Sprint service will end up just being a Platinum-operated 'cross-city service', like the oft-rumoured Dudley/Bearwood to Maypole services, albeit with improved road infrastructure.
This Sprint service between Walsall and Airport/Solihull was meant to be in place to shuttle visitors to the Commonwealth Games in 2022, well if this pandemic and its associated restrictions remain in place until next year, its not going to be carrying many passengers if the stadia/arenas are bereft of spectators.
So will these fuell cell Platinums be H001-020? I thought they'd be in service this year, not well into 2022.
Quote from: Stevo on January 28, 2021, 07:07:09 PM
So will these fuell cell Platinums be H001-020? I thought they'd be in service this year, not well into 2022.
They will be in service this year (as long as BCC complete the fuelling infrastructure) the buses are already in build, They will not be H001-20. NX's radio system does not cope with letters, so no two vehicles can have the same number without letters eg 001
Quote from: Stevo on January 28, 2021, 07:07:09 PM
So will these fuell cell Platinums be H001-020? I thought they'd be in service this year, not well into 2022.
They were originally scheduled to be in operation this year, April 2021 according to Birmingham City Council who are buying these vehicles.
https://westmidlandsbususers.co.uk/2020/10/hydrogen-buses-coming-to-birmingham-in-spring-2021/
BCC's press release does mention that NX Bus had an 'ambition' to run them on the Sprint service when it launches.
So, these vehicles will already be 'second-hand' (so to speak, as in not 'brand new') when the Sprint service launches.
If I'm understanding all this correctly, NX Bus will be using vehicles purchased and owned by Birmingham City Council on a service operated under contract to the WMCA?
Quote from: Tony on January 28, 2021, 07:17:09 PM
They will be in service this year (as long as BCC complete the fuelling infrastructure) the buses are already in build, They will not be H001-20. NX's radio system does not cope with letters, so no two vehicles can have the same number without letters eg 001
If NX's radio system does not cope with letters, what about E001 onwards ?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on January 28, 2021, 08:31:15 PM
If NX's radio system does not cope with letters, what about E001 onwards ?
It is fleetnumber 001 in the radio, hence why we cannot have a H001
Quote from: Tony on January 28, 2021, 08:45:38 PM
It is fleetnumber 001 in the radio, hence why we cannot have a H001
Will H001 -H020 be numbered 30 - 49 but fleet numbers on the vehicles H030 - H049 then if there is an order if electrics after the next electric vehicle will be numbered E050
Wow can't wait for perry barr to run these services
I know it's to early to speculate but will NX passes be accepted on sprint because I feel as if they aren't, it may underdeliver slightly.
Quote from: bususer28 on January 28, 2021, 11:24:25 PM
I know it's to early to speculate but will NX passes be accepted on sprint because I feel as if they aren't, it may underdeliver slightly.
Probably.
Sprint appears to be the same as Metrobus (in Bristol), which I currently drive for. Metrobus is operated by First and as such, First passes are accepted.
Quote from: Nxwm on January 28, 2021, 09:25:13 PM
Wow can't wait for perry barr to run these services
it ain't PB
Quote from: bbs on January 30, 2021, 01:09:15 PM
it ain't PB
I thought it was confirmed already to be Perry Bar?
Quote from: bbs on January 30, 2021, 01:09:15 PM
it ain't PB
I remember someone posting a while back in the Perry Barr thread a plan of the new depot which included spaces for the sprint buses.
Here is a comment in this week's staff business brief about this
We will also deploy our 20 new hydrogen buses on this corridor. There are several garages which could host them, with Walsall a likely candidate. The decision is taking a bit of time as we work through the practicalities and lobby government for much more funding to buy hundreds more hydrogen buses to join the fleet.
I thought the hydrogen refuelling station was going to be in Tyseley. That's a long way from Walsall!
Quote from: bususer28 on January 30, 2021, 03:26:27 PM
I remember someone posting a while back in the Perry Barr thread a plan of the new depot which included spaces for the sprint buses.
The plan of the new Perry Barr depot showed spaces for the articulated vehicles proposed to be used at a later date.
However the plan of the layout was likely itself a proposal, and any spaces shown could be reallocated for other vehicle types.
Quote from: Stevo on January 30, 2021, 06:00:48 PM
I thought the hydrogen refuelling station was going to be in Tyseley. That's a long way from Walsall!
The refuelling station is itself just off the proposed Sprint route, near Small Heath Highway. I don't know how long it would take to refuel one of these vehicles, I guess with some clever scheduling and short workings, it could be feasible to have them refuelled 'mid-service' rather than at the end of the day back at the depot.
For example, a journey could terminate at the Airport, then run dead to Tyseley, refuel, and then run a short journey from the city centre to Walsall. That's just a guess, and I'm sure all these factors are being taken into consideration.
Quote from: Tony on January 28, 2021, 07:17:09 PM
They will be in service this year (as long as BCC complete the fuelling infrastructure)
Quote from: Tony on January 30, 2021, 03:36:35 PM
Here is a comment in this week's staff business brief about this
We will also deploy our 20 new hydrogen buses on this corridor. There are several garages which could host them, with Walsall a likely candidate. The decision is taking a bit of time as we work through the practicalities and lobby government for much more funding to buy hundreds more hydrogen buses to join the fleet.
With the sprint route not due to start till 2022.
Does that mean they will be used on 51/X51 or X1/X2 if they are entering service before then? With routes remaining as they are now, or not?
Quote from: Stu on January 30, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
For example, a journey could terminate at the Airport, then run dead to Tyseley
Would it make sense to have them come on/off at Yardley Swan maybe for example, as it would reduce the dead millage?
Could have saved a lot of money by simply creating more bus lanes for the X51 (unfamiliar with the other routes) and helping fund hydrogen buses without all the other carry-on.
Could we see new platinum routes, e.g Upgrading 55 and 94 into platinum with the extra which will be availiable, and could we be expecting route changes for X1/X2, X12 and X51 with the introduction of sprint?
Quote from: l.murphy123 on January 31, 2021, 08:05:59 PM
Could have saved a lot of money by simply creating more bus lanes for the X51 (unfamiliar with the other routes) and helping fund hydrogen buses without all the other carry-on.
That is what is happening
Quote from: Jack D on February 01, 2021, 11:35:19 AM
Could we see new platinum routes, e.g Upgrading 55 and 94 into platinum with the extra which will be availiable, and could we be expecting route changes for X1/X2, X12 and X51 with the introduction of sprint?
The X1/X2 and 51/X51 are probably likely to change as a result of the Sprint route as they would be directly impacted. The X12 is not likely to be directly impacted.
What is also still unclear is how it impacts the sections that aren't on the proposed sprint route - Old Lode Lane on X2, Airport to Coventry on X1 & Walsall to Cannock on X51.
I can imagine one of the bus routes on Hobs Moat road being diverted to serve Old Lode Lane instead.
I've had a quick look at the Sprint bus plans, looks like they're slightly reducing the number of bus stops on the east side of Brum. If that is the case, I can imagine the 60 having their frequencies slightly boosted to pick up the slack - perhaps not necessary now that it's less likely to get stuck in a traffic due to new bus lanes (ignoring the traffic nightmare that is Small Heath of course).
Quote from: :D on February 01, 2021, 12:34:05 PM
I can imagine one of the bus routes on Hobs Moat road being diverted to serve Old Lode Lane instead.
Probably the 72 as thats the only route that serves it.
And the new Sprint X2 (Like the 57A used to as well) and 73 to use Hobs Moat Road maybe. Swapping them over basically, maybe.
Quote from: 2206 on February 01, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
The X1/X2 and 51/X51 are probably likely to change as a result of the Sprint route as they would be directly impacted. The X12 is not likely to be directly impacted.
What is also still unclear is how it impacts the sections that aren't on the proposed sprint route - Old Lode Lane on X2, Airport to Coventry on X1 & Walsall to Cannock on X51.
I'm not sure if it's possible but could it be the case that until the articulated buses arrive, sprint simply extends to Coventry and Cannock using normal roads and fares.
Quote from: bususer28 on February 02, 2021, 05:28:46 PM
I'm not sure if it's possible but could it be the case that until the articulated buses arrive, sprint simply extends to Coventry and Cannock using normal roads and fares.
I would assume not but again
@Tony may be more adept at answering this question.. 😁
Quote from: bususer28 on February 02, 2021, 05:28:46 PM
I'm not sure if it's possible but could it be the case that until the articulated buses arrive, sprint simply extends to Coventry and Cannock using normal roads and fares.
Why would you want a route that long? over 50km so would come under EU driving rules amongst other reasons not to
Quote from: Tony on February 02, 2021, 05:52:26 PM
Why would you want a route that long? over 50km so would come under EU driving rules amongst other reasons not to
It could be split at Birmingham, using the same number but two different registrations for each half, I'd imagine.
Quote from: DJ on February 02, 2021, 08:22:46 PM
It could be split at Birmingham, using the same number but two different registrations for each half, I'd imagine.
Although that practise is common, Beverley Bell had an operator over doing it after a driver had an RTC, so it is not 100% legal
Quote from: bususer28 on February 02, 2021, 05:28:46 PM
I'm not sure if it's possible but could it be the case that until the articulated buses arrive, sprint simply extends to Coventry and Cannock using normal roads and fares.
I think it is more likely that the X51 / X1 / X2 will still exist in some form, though not as they are today, and will continue to work alongside the new Walsall to Airport/Solihull Sprint routes, albeit in 'modified route' or reduced forms.
The X51 could continue as it is between Birmingham and Cannock at a reduced frequency.
The X1 and X2 could be curtailed to operate between South Yardley and Coventry/Solihull at a reduced frequency (with passengers bound for Birmingham city centre encouraged to change onto the Sprint service or the 60). Or the routes could be merged to operate between Coventry and Solihull via Hobs Moat Road and Lode Lane.
Just my thoughts...
Quote from: Stu on February 02, 2021, 08:46:53 PM
The X1 and X2 could be curtailed to operate between South Yardley and Coventry/Solihull at a reduced frequency (with passengers bound for Birmingham city centre encouraged to change onto the Sprint service or the 60). Or the routes could be merged to operate between Coventry and Solihull via Hobs Moat Road and Lode Lane.
Just my thoughts...
Hopefully not, asking people to change vehicles is always a passenger loser, hence the wish for cross city routes
Quote from: Stu on February 02, 2021, 08:46:53 PM
I think it is more likely that the X51 / X1 / X2 will still exist in some form, though not as they are today, and will continue to work alongside the new Walsall to Airport/Solihull Sprint routes, albeit in 'modified route' or reduced forms.
The X51 could continue as it is between Birmingham and Cannock at a reduced frequency.
The X1 and X2 could be curtailed to operate between South Yardley and Coventry/Solihull at a reduced frequency (with passengers bound for Birmingham city centre encouraged to change onto the Sprint service or the 60). Or the routes could be merged to operate between Coventry and Solihull via Hobs Moat Road and Lode Lane.
Just my thoughts...
My thoughts is the 'Sprint' will replace the whole of the X2, part of the X1, 51 and the X51 journeys to Walsall. The X1 could continue as the main Birmingham-Airport-Meriden-Coventry link
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 02, 2021, 09:10:18 PM
My thoughts is the 'Sprint' will replace the whole of the X2, part of the X1, 51 and the X51 journeys to Walsall. The X1 could continue as the main Birmingham-Airport-Meriden-Coventry link
That would make most sense. I can't see what benefit Coventry to Solihull via Old Lode Lane would bring either. As the Johnsons X20 runs between Coventry and Solihull.
The map of the A45 corridor also says the Sprint stops between the Wheatsheaf and The Airport will be delivered "After 2022". Which I hadn't noticed till now. So it might only replace the X2 and 51/X51 journeys to Walsall to begin with as well. And X1 journeys up to Airport at a later date, it sounds.
https://www.tfwm.org.uk/development/sprint/about-sprint
Quote from: Tony on February 01, 2021, 11:48:48 AM
That is what is happening
But the cost of all the consultations and work on the sprint identity etc. must be far higher than simply putting the new lanes in with minimal consultation.
You can't put bus lanes in without consultation
Quote from: Tony on February 03, 2021, 06:51:33 AM
You can't put bus lanes in without consultation
I said *minimal* consultation rather than a consultation on what colour to use, what logo, what type of bus etc etc. whatever has been involved with Sprint.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on February 03, 2021, 03:10:00 PM
I said *minimal* consultation rather than a consultation on what colour to use, what logo, what type of bus etc etc. whatever has been involved with Sprint.
So which bit of the bus lane consultation could have been avoided to make it minimal?
Quote from: l.murphy123 on February 03, 2021, 03:10:00 PM
I said *minimal* consultation rather than a consultation on what colour to use, what logo, what type of bus etc etc. whatever has been involved with Sprint.
Branding, such as the colour scheme and logo, plays an integral part in attracting customers. If the goal is to draw people out of their cars and onto Sprint, they need something attractive that will do that. Sure, a consultation will cost money and time, but there's a good chance it'll pay off.
Quote from: Tony on February 02, 2021, 05:52:26 PM
Why would you want a route that long? over 50km so would come under
EU driving rules amongst other reasons not to
Would they still apply though? With Brexit?
Quote from: Bob on February 05, 2021, 09:30:46 AM
Would they still apply though? With Brexit?
Yes, UK government won't relax anything that could affect safety, there would be uproar after the first accident
Quote from: Tony on February 05, 2021, 09:33:55 AM
Yes, UK government won't relax anything that could affect safety, there would be uproar after the first accident
Do you think NXWM will still persevere with a service to Cannock Tony?
I cant fault the X51, its been a brilliant service!
the X51 can be a very well used service. I personally think it might say, but nothing can be certain... 😁 Also Awhrn I travelled on it I thnk it wasnt to well used.. Yes you'd get the usually passenger between Birmingham and Walsall but then between Walsall & Cannock it was a dit dead.. maybe it depends on the time of day you travel!! 😁
I this the Sprint route is a good idea.. As it eould mean that there's a through service to Solihull from Walsall, much like what was sugested in another topic about the cross city routes possibly the 82/87 & 50.
It'll all come out in the was so to speak!!! 😁
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on February 10, 2021, 12:22:46 PM
the X51 can be a very well used service. I personally think it might say, but nothing can be certain... 😁 Also Awhrn I travelled on it I thnk it wasnt to well used.. Yes you'd get the usually passenger between Birmingham and Walsall but then between Walsall & Cannock it was a dit dead.. maybe it depends on the time of day you travel!! 😁
I this the Sprint route is a good idea.. As it eould mean that there's a through service to Solihull from Walsall, much like what was sugested in another topic about the cross city routes possibly the 82/87 & 50.
It'll all come out in the was so to speak!!! 😁
Bopefully post covid the Cannock to Walsall bit will pick up. Doesnt look like the 1 is ever coming back
Quote from: Bob on February 10, 2021, 12:51:10 PM
Bopefully post covid the Cannock to Walsall bit will pick up. Doesnt look like the 1 is ever coming back
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on February 10, 2021, 12:22:46 PM
the X51 can be a very well used service. I personally think it might say, but nothing can be certain... 😁 Also Awhrn I travelled on it I thnk it wasnt to well used.. Yes you'd get the usually passenger between Birmingham and Walsall but then between Walsall & Cannock it was a dit dead.. maybe it depends on the time of day you travel!! 😁
I this the Sprint route is a good idea.. As it eould mean that there's a through service to Solihull from Walsall, much like what was sugested in another topic about the cross city routes possibly the 82/87 & 50.
It'll all come out in the was so to speak!!! 😁
This was way before the First lockdown last March.
Does anyone know what route will Sprint take in the city centre when passing through from either side of the city?
Quote from: :D on February 14, 2021, 07:27:26 AM
Does anyone know what route will Sprint take in the city centre when passing through from either side of the city?
I don't know to be honest, but it is an interesting question.
Towards Walsall, it would appear straight-forward, coming into city via current X1/X2 route but instead of terminating on Moor Street Queensway, continue up Carrs Lane and on to Lower Bull Street, to then pick up the X51 route.
This would be fine if Sprint uses Platinum buses, I don't know how well any articulated bus would handle those turns!
Towards Solihull, it would be a bit tricky and I can't see any way it can arrive in city via the X51 route to then pickup from the current X1/X2 stop, which would presumably be desired, unless that stop is relocated across the road.
So my guess is that it would arrive via the current X51 route onto Moor Street Queensway, then continue along past Moor Street station to pickup the X1/X2 route.
Quote from: Stu on February 14, 2021, 09:49:25 AM
I don't know to be honest, but it is an interesting question.
Towards Walsall, it would appear straight-forward, coming into city via current X1/X2 route but instead of terminating on Moor Street Queensway, continue up Carrs Lane and on to Lower Bull Street, to then pick up the X51 route.
This would be fine if Sprint uses Platinum buses, I don't know how well any articulated bus would handle those turns!
Towards Solihull, it would be a bit tricky and I can't see any way it can arrive in city via the X51 route to then pickup from the current X1/X2 stop, which would presumably be desired, unless that stop is relocated across the road.
So my guess is that it would arrive via the current X51 route onto Moor Street Queensway, then continue along past Moor Street station to pickup the X1/X2 route.
I thought Sprint was replacing the 51 and X51 shorts to Walsall with the X51's still running to and from Cannock, just as the X1 still running to and Coventry.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 14, 2021, 09:53:41 AM
I thought Sprint was replacing the 51 and X51 shorts to Walsall with the X51's still running to and from Cannock, just as the X1 still running to and Coventry.
That will likely be the case, what I meant was it would be desirable for the Sprint services to pickup from the current X51/X1/X2 stops.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on February 14, 2021, 09:53:41 AM
I thought Sprint was replacing the 51 and X51 shorts to Walsall with the X51's still running to and from Cannock, just as the X1 still running to and Coventry.
If only bus scheduling was that simple
Quote from: Stu on February 14, 2021, 09:49:25 AM
I don't know to be honest, but it is an interesting question.
Towards Walsall, it would appear straight-forward, coming into city via current X1/X2 route but instead of terminating on Moor Street Queensway, continue up Carrs Lane and on to Lower Bull Street, to then pick up the X51 route.
This would be fine if Sprint uses Platinum buses, I don't know how well any articulated bus would handle those turns!
Towards Solihull, it would be a bit tricky and I can't see any way it can arrive in city via the X51 route to then pickup from the current X1/X2 stop, which would presumably be desired, unless that stop is relocated across the road.
So my guess is that it would arrive via the current X51 route onto Moor Street Queensway, then continue along past Moor Street station to pickup the X1/X2 route.
I think that's what probably will happen.
Some passengers having had a choice between the X1/X2 and the 60 may not be too happy that their usual X1/X2 bus stop (MS4) now only goes to Walsall and they have to walk to a different bus stop to keep their options open.
I don't use buses in the north side of Birmingham much but I think it may be the same for X51 and other A34 road buses?
It will be the same when the 82/87/50 joining happens I think.
I was guessing they'd go up Livery Street, Colmore Circus, Priory Queensway, Moor Street Queensway and join the 50 route there. Which would mean they'd no longer be able to serve the New Street Station stop.
As if they went the other way down Smallbrook Queensway it'd leave the 89 as the only Dudley Road bus on Colmore Row as well.
It also means the 50 will probably have to move from its current stop outside the Bullring as well, as its facing in the wrong direction.
Just revisiting this topic as I see we are currently just 73 days from the start of the 2022 Commonwealth Games.
With the hydrogen buses at Walsall still out of action, and no end in sight to roadworks in Digbeth and along the A45 and A34, is it looking unlikely that this first Sprint route linking Walsall to Birmingham Airport is going to be up and running in time?
QuoteJust revisiting this topic as I see we are currently just 73 days from the start of the 2022 Commonwealth Games.
With the hydrogen buses at Walsall still out of action, and no end in sight to roadworks in Digbeth and along the A45 and A34, is it looking unlikely that this first Sprint route linking Walsall to Birmingham Airport is going to be up and running in time?
The A34 & A45 are nearly finished, they will easily be completed on time. Digbeth won't be.
Quote from: Tony on May 16, 2022, 08:38:59 PMThe A34 & A45 are nearly finished, they will easily be completed on time. Digbeth won't be.
Will the 11A/C return to doing a full loop before then as well? Or is the split route going to be permanent? I think A34 works was given as a reason for it being split at the time?
Quote from: :D on February 14, 2021, 10:18:08 AMI think that's what probably will happen.
Some passengers having had a choice between the X1/X2 and the 60 may not be too happy that their usual X1/X2 bus stop (MS4) now only goes to Walsall and they have to walk to a different bus stop to keep their options open.
I don't use buses in the north side of Birmingham much but I think it may be the same for X51 and other A34 road buses?
Surely the new Sprint route will have to be a new standalone route? With it going to Solihull and the airport I don't see how it could be a direct replacement. All I can think is it'll be classed as a new route with the x1 airport shuttle being withdrawn and the x2 service being cut back.
Quote from: WM_58 on May 16, 2022, 09:11:29 PMSurely the new Sprint route will have to be a new standalone route? With it going to Solihull and the airport I don't see how it could be a direct replacement. All I can think is it'll be classed as a new route with the x1 airport shuttle being withdrawn and the x2 service being cut back.
No such thing as "Airport Shuttle" on the X1. All go to Coventry bar 06.38, 08.15, late night/early mornings.
X2 being cut back would need a replacement on Old Lode Lane as the Sprint route goes straight up Hobs Moat Road? 72 maybe maintaining the direct link to Solihull?
Its not going to the Airport yet though anyway, only Solihull.
Quote from: Tony on May 16, 2022, 08:38:59 PMThe A34 & A45 are nearly finished, they will easily be completed on time. Digbeth won't be.
And thats my concern with the Digbeth roadworks, as presumably the Sprint route will be passing through this area, and getting delayed with the other buses because of the congestion.
Why wasn't digbeth roadworks done in ,3 parts instead of shutting from rainbow pub till Allison st police station
QuoteWhy wasn't digbeth roadworks done in ,3 parts instead of shutting from rainbow pub till Allison st police station
Probably would have taken longer, with no actual benefit as there would always be a narrow bottleneck
Quote from: 2206 on May 16, 2022, 08:50:25 PMWill the 11A/C return to doing a full loop before then as well? Or is the split route going to be permanent? I think A34 works was given as a reason for it being split at the time?
I think 11A/11C will be back into the loop once the perry barr works are done
Quote from: Tony on May 17, 2022, 03:57:41 PMProbably would have taken longer, with no actual benefit as there would always be a narrow bottleneck
ok as they seem to be doing a bit in different places rater than do one place first
Quote from: 2206 on May 16, 2022, 09:14:17 PMNo such thing as "Airport Shuttle" on the X1. All go to Coventry bar 06.38, 08.15, late night/early mornings.
X2 being cut back would need a replacement on Old Lode Lane as the Sprint route goes straight up Hobs Moat Road? 72 maybe maintaining the direct link to Solihull?
Its not going to the Airport yet though anyway, only Solihull.
There used to be. It used to leave international station at around 20 past the hour. I would aim for that one as the X1 coming from Cov would be well loaded but the shuttle would always be pretty much empty. I wasn't aware that it had stopped as I haven't used the buses for a while
Quote from: WM_58 on May 21, 2022, 04:41:15 PMThere used to be. It used to leave international station at around 20 past the hour. I would aim for that one as the X1 coming from Cov would be well loaded but the shuttle would always be pretty much empty. I wasn't aware that it had stopped as I haven't used the buses for a while
Its frequency decreased/Airport Shorts removed September 2021 I think.
Quote from: Stu on May 17, 2022, 07:53:35 AMAnd thats my concern with the Digbeth roadworks, as presumably the Sprint route will be passing through this area, and getting delayed with the other buses because of the congestion.
Same as every other day then:
https://twitter.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1528004551034413056
I still maintain that some of these services should have been permanently diverted via Bradford Street.
QuoteSame as every other day then:
https://twitter.com/nxwestmidlands/status/1528004551034413056
I still maintain that some of these services should have been permanently diverted via Bradford Street.
When Digbeth is bus only, so all the cars are on Bradford Street it wouldn't be such a good idea
Quote from: Tony on May 21, 2022, 06:11:04 PMWhen Digbeth is bus only, so all the cars are on Bradford Street it wouldn't be such a good idea
Well by 'permanent' I just meant for the course of these roadworks.
First I've heard of this, when is this scheduled to happen? If other cars had been restricted from the start of the roadworks, it might have alleviated matters.
But in al honesty from what I've experienced myself, its actually the buses that cause the congestion, whenever they stop to load and unload passengers, as other vehicles can't then overtake them.
If the Sprint route is going to be up and running for the Commonwealth Games, its going to be a bit of an embarrassment if it is getting delayed travelling through Digbeth.
Also presumably these works in Digbeth are for both Sprint and the Metro extension - it would be madness if all this 'public realm improvement' work is being done now, only to be dug up again at a later date to lay down Metro track.
QuoteWell by 'permanent' I just meant for the course of these roadworks.
First I've heard of this, when is this scheduled to happen? If other cars had been restricted from the start of the roadworks, it might have alleviated matters.
But in al honesty from what I've experienced myself, its actually the buses that cause the congestion, whenever they stop to load and unload passengers, as other vehicles can't then overtake them.
If the Sprint route is going to be up and running for the Commonwealth Games, its going to be a bit of an embarrassment if it is getting delayed travelling through Digbeth.
Also presumably these works in Digbeth are for both Sprint and the Metro extension - it would be madness if all this 'public realm improvement' work is being done now, only to be dug up again at a later date to lay down Metro track.
What's happening is the new carriageway currently under construction is going to be the new road. Buses only to city all traffic out of city, then once that is finished, hopefully in time for the games the bit currently in use is going to be the tram route.
Quote from: Tony on May 22, 2022, 09:37:20 AMCurrently at Walsall garage, before any excitement it is only here to test the new sprint route is suitable for bendibuses
Where will the Sprint route terminate in Solihull? Is it going to be the Station, or Town Centre or somewhere else?
The proposed Solihull Station redevelopment. Is that supposed to be Sprint at the top left of the photograph?
(https://i2-prod.coventrytelegraph.net/incoming/article21020508.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_CT-19046_SSITH_V003_Interchange_201127_small.jpg)
Quote from: 2206 on May 22, 2022, 11:16:02 AMWhere will the Sprint route terminate in Solihull? Is it going to be the Station, or Town Centre or somewhere else?
At the present time, it is currently unclear. As MW has pointed out above, the proposed redevelopment of Solihull station includes provision for Sprint buses.
I suppose we'll know more once a launch is announced.
It seems the A45 Coventry Road sprint route is very near completion. In fact today all lanes were open today in both directions and even the new bus gate that takes the X1/2 through the middle of the Heybarnes Roundabout was operational. There's load of cones still at side of road but so good to see that way into Brum so much clearer now.
Has it yet been decided on route a route number and routes to be axed as part of Sprint launch. We are getting very close to the launch now and with little information!
The new sprint stop at the Swan for the X1/X2/60 is now open as of Monday and the old stop had now been put out of use, presumably it might be removed as well at some point.
Is the new Cross City Sprint service likely to start on the 24th July? The date the summer timetables come into place and often in previous years when changes have been made?
Quote from: 2206 on June 09, 2022, 12:56:47 PMIs the new Cross City Sprint service likely to start on the 24th July? The date the summer timetables come into place and often in previous years when changes have been made?
The Commonwealth Games begin on July 28th, and this flagship Sprint route is supposed to be up and running before then.
No sign of any new registration for this route, or any variation to existing 51 / X51 / X1 / X2 services.
I think its looking unlikely now, unless its all going to be put into place right at the last minute.
QuoteThe Commonwealth Games begin on July 28th, and this flagship Sprint route is supposed to be up and running before then.
No sign of any new registration for this route, or any variation to existing 51 / X51 / X1 / X2 services.
I think its looking unlikely now, unless its all going to be put into place right at the last minute.
See...
New Sprint bus corridor set to open but only with current vehicles | Express & Star (expressandstar.com) (https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2022/06/09/a34-sprint/?fbclid=IwAR1N1vFF7dt5FLxutlu3MaG8R80Mr1pweJMaD7ZTB4QFhq3Q9THd1z3pb2A)
Does that mean it's only opening between Walsall and Birmingham or not?
When it says current vehicles I thought it's having new hydrogens? Or are 67/68XX (current vehicles) going to be used?
Quote from: 2206 on June 09, 2022, 07:38:06 PMDoes that mean it's only opening between Walsall and Birmingham or not?
When it says current vehicles I thought it's having new hydrogens? Or are 67/68XX (current vehicles) going to be used?
I believe Tony mentioned in the Hydrogen Vehicles thread that they're expecting to return from next week
Quote from: 2206 on June 09, 2022, 07:38:06 PMDoes that mean it's only opening between Walsall and Birmingham or not?
When it says current vehicles I thought it's having new hydrogens? Or are 67/68XX (current vehicles) going to be used?
Walsall garage only has 67xx buses, it doesn't have any 68xx buses
Quote from: Tony on June 09, 2022, 07:32:37 PMSee...
New Sprint bus corridor set to open but only with current vehicles | Express & Star (expressandstar.com) (https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport/2022/06/09/a34-sprint/?fbclid=IwAR1N1vFF7dt5FLxutlu3MaG8R80Mr1pweJMaD7ZTB4QFhq3Q9THd1z3pb2A)
Thanks for that, I haven't looked at the E&S website today, so hadn't seen that.
But still, to be frank and blunt, its a bit of an underwhelming announcement, and to be honest its a bit of an embarrassment.
Granted, I know that the 'articulated tram-style buses' were never going to be used from the start, and it was always going to be the case that existing vehicles would be used initially.
But still, this whole first Sprint route was pushed to the fore in order that it could be up and running ahead of the Commonwealth Games, in order to transport spectators to and from Alexander Stadium.
There have been massive amounts of disruption caused, though enabling roadworks to achieve this aim.
If the Sprint route is only going to operate between Walsall and Birmingham (as the E&S article alludes), then there is no 'new' route, just the existing 51 and X51 services taking advantage of some new infrastructure that has been put in place. Which admittedly may improve their journey time and reliability, but at this stage remains to be seen.
So this comes across as a bit of a disappointment really. Maybe there will be a crumb of comfort if the Hydroliners can finally re-enter service to run on the 51.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 09, 2022, 08:21:57 PMWalsall garage only has 67xx buses, it doesn't have any 68xx buses
The Coventry Road has the 68XX currently BC ones. So ifs not going to Solihull anyway they'll keep the 68XX.
I certainly recall reading that the first "cross city" service was due to start in July, although of course I can't find where I read it. From this I assumed WA's Hydrogens would run the 51 and x2 thus allowing some cascades from BC to withdraw some of the old stock elsewhere. Maybe I should have learned by now never to assume.
I presume that the service is intended to start before the Commonwealth Games begin. Indications up to now have been that before the BRT artics arrive, zero emission double decks will be used - which I guess does not rule out electrics if need be?
What a pity that TfWM are saying nothing to the public about timescales or even the initial route as the starting point surely gets closer. It really isn't acceptable that a newspaper provides an update.
I am really unimpressed with TfWM's comms policy of "keep them in the dark until the last possible moment". It isn't how West Midlands PTE or Centro used to operate, and it's no way to keep the public on your side.
Quote from: cardew on June 09, 2022, 09:03:43 PMI certainly recall reading that the first "cross city" service was due to start in July, although of course I can't find where I read it. From this I assumed WA's Hydrogens would run the 51 and x2 thus allowing some cascades from BC to withdraw some of the old stock elsewhere. Maybe I should have learned by now never to assume.
The old 68** at BC *could* move to AG or WAs 67** possibly to help with the 4/4A or WB 74
Quote from: Stu on June 09, 2022, 08:22:44 PMThanks for that, I haven't looked at the E&S website today, so hadn't seen that.
But still, to be frank and blunt, its a bit of an underwhelming announcement, and to be honest its a bit of an embarrassment.
Granted, I know that the 'articulated tram-style buses' were never going to be used from the start, and it was always going to be the case that existing vehicles would be used initially.
But still, this whole first Sprint route was pushed to the fore in order that it could be up and running ahead of the Commonwealth Games, in order to transport spectators to and from Alexander Stadium.
There have been massive amounts of disruption caused, though enabling roadworks to achieve this aim.
If the Sprint route is only going to operate between Walsall and Birmingham (as the E&S article alludes), then there is no 'new' route, just the existing 51 and X51 services taking advantage of some new infrastructure that has been put in place. Which admittedly may improve their journey time and reliability, but at this stage remains to be seen.
So this comes across as a bit of a disappointment really. Maybe there will be a crumb of comfort if the Hydroliners can finally re-enter service to run on the 51.
It does seem like a knee-jerk announcement, and not surprising given the amount of adverse publicity around the West Midlands public transport infrastructure, with the recent tram woes and the threat of rail strikes that just happen to be scheduled in time for CG.
I'm hoping that the Hydroliners will be ready in time for this "launch", though it's still a bit of a damp squib given all the pomp and hype over what Sprint was supposed to be.
Quote from: BBS on June 09, 2022, 11:23:16 PMThe old 68** at BC *could* move to AG or WAs 67** possibly to help with the 4/4A or WB 74
There are 8 vehicles (7 68XX and 1 75XX that comes off X1 night bus) tracking as X2's this morning.
They might stay at BC and displace older euro 6 tridents or E400 elsewhere maybe to YW, WN, etc. 8 wouldn't be enough for the 4/4A or 74.
Maybe they'll make the 60's platinum.
Quote from: Justin Tyme on June 09, 2022, 10:54:11 PMI am really unimpressed with TfWM's comms policy of "keep them in the dark until the last possible moment". It isn't how West Midlands PTE or Centro used to operate, and it's no way to keep the public on your side.
Maybe more information will drip out once the council transport meetings start up again after the elections.
I see that Andy Hi-Vis is chairing a WMCA Board one today, the Bus Service Improvement Plan and the 124 Hydrogen buses for 2023/24 are on the agenda.
https://governance.wmca.org.uk/
Quote from: cardew on June 10, 2022, 10:05:33 AMMaybe more information will drip out once the council transport meetings start up again after the elections.
I see that Andy Hi-Vis is chairing a WMCA Board one today, the Bus Service Improvement Plan and the 124 Hydrogen buses for 2023/24 are on the agenda.
https://governance.wmca.org.uk/
Thank you cardew. Let's hope so!
https://www.route-one.net/news/deep-integration-with-existing-bus-services-is-key-to-sprint-brt/
I've said this time and time again BRT articulated buses are NOT the answer. Passengers who are currently use a double decker are sitting down on a seat, with these BRT things which if I'm right have a similar layout to trams will mean these passengers will be standing more often. Will they be happy with that, I doubt it !
Quote from: Steve3229vp on June 11, 2022, 09:40:15 AMI've said this time and time again BRT articulated buses are NOT the answer. Passengers who are currently use a double decker are sitting down on a seat, with these BRT things which if I'm right have a similar layout to trams will mean these passengers will be standing more often. Will they be happy with that, I doubt it !
I agree
Three door artics were tried in London with boarding and alighting through any door and fare evasion was high, while the low capacity meant that standing was common. Boris replaced them with the New Routemaster with similar boarding. TfL eventually stopped the practice and now all boarding is past the driver. Mind you, multi-door boarding is universal with trams, not all of which have conductors like the Metro.
Quote from: Stevo on June 11, 2022, 10:20:32 AMThree door artics were tried in London with boarding and alighting through any door and fare evasion was high, while the low capacity meant that standing was common. Boris replaced them with the New Routemaster with similar boarding. TfL eventually stopped the practice and now all boarding is past the driver. Mind you, multi-door boarding is universal with trams, not all of which have conductors like the Metro.
Very true. If,for example you were travelling between Marble Arch and Victoria it wasn't so bad on a bendybus to stand. Slightly different story between Kings Cross and Victoria.......
What will be intresting to see is how sprint is marketed... so will buses be in dedicated livery separating them from platinum/standard NXWM buses... if it is decided in the future too use articulated buses, simular to a scheme in Belfast (the name escapes me) would NXWM be expected to buy them or would the ever photogenic Mayor Street be putting some towards it. Thanks in advance for your answers/insight.
Quote from: danny on June 11, 2022, 03:28:14 PMWhat will be intresting to see is how sprint is marketed... so will buses be in dedicated livery separating them from platinum/standard NXWM buses... if it is decided in the future too use articulated buses, simular to a scheme in Belfast (the name escapes me) would NXWM be expected to buy them or would the ever photogenic Mayor Street be putting some towards it. Thanks in advance for your answers/insight.
The Hydrogen buses at least are in grey platinum livery.
Quote from: 2206 on June 11, 2022, 04:09:06 PMThe Hydrogen buses at least are in grey platinum livery.
I swear 2206 and a few e200s are now in a grey livery too
QuoteI swear 2206 and a few e200s are now in a grey livery too
You certainly haven't seen 2206 in grey. It is currently in BC having floor repairs before going back to Walsall for the seats to be refitted, and as yet there's no more E200s than 871
Quote from: danny on June 11, 2022, 03:28:14 PMWhat will be intresting to see is how sprint is marketed... so will buses be in dedicated livery separating them from platinum/standard NXWM buses... if it is decided in the future too use articulated buses, simular to a scheme in Belfast (the name escapes me) would NXWM be expected to buy them or would the ever photogenic Mayor Street be putting some towards it. Thanks in advance for your answers/insight.
For the interim, until the dedicated articulated vehicles arrive, it has always been stated that the Sprint service would be operated with regular double-decks, including the hydrogen vehicles bought by Birmingham City Council currently based at Walsall.
I wouldn't expect any of these to receive any special branding.
The original documents I remember reading stated that WMCA/TfWM would be purchasing the articulated vehicles, and then an operator would be contracted to run the service. That then changed at some point, to an expectation that the successful bidding operator would be providing the vehicles. Oh, and they had to be 'zero-emission' vehicles. That pretty much ruled out any other operator from winning the contract.
OK, so I took an opportunity today to travel by bus along parts of this new Sprint route to see how things have progressed.
After getting the 11A from Billesley up to Swan Island, I boarded an X1 bound for Birmingham.
Traffic along Coventry Road and Small Heath Highway is running much more smoothly now all the cones have been removed.
To be honest, I think the bus lanes on SHH should have been put in years ago. I still remember when I lived in South Yardley, how often it was sometimes quicker to get the 60, due to the traffic congestion that the X1 and X2 would get stuck in towards Poets Corner.
Got stuck in heavy congestion through Digbeth, that was the slowest part of the journey.
On arriving in the city centre, I then got on an X51 bound for Cannock, though I only intended on travelling as far as Scott Arms.
I have travelled in the past on the X51 prior to all these roadworks and demolition of the Perry Barr flyover, and distinctly recall the journey from city centre to Scott Arms taking less than 20 minutes. (Did it in 15 minutes the once!)
Perry Barr is still a mess, though the roadworks aren't yet complete. (Lanes closed off through the underpass so workers could paint some new murals for the Games!)
The only sign of any actual bus priority measures I saw on my journey that I was impressed with, was my return journey to Swan Island on the X1. I don't know if it was just coincidence, but the bus was able to glide along the new bus lane, and through the Heybarnes Circus island, without stopping, due to timing of traffic light sequences.
One other observation I made is that X1/X2 drivers seemed unsure about using the new stops at Poets Corner, also the onboard next stop announcements need updating to add these in. (May I suggest "Poets Corner, for Small Heath station"?)
QuoteOK, so I took an opportunity today to travel by bus along parts of this new Sprint route to see how things have progressed.
After getting the 11A from Billesley up to Swan Island, I boarded an X1 bound for Birmingham.
Traffic along Coventry Road and Small Heath Highway is running much more smoothly now all the cones have been removed.
To be honest, I think the bus lanes on SHH should have been put in years ago. I still remember when I lived in South Yardley, how often it was sometimes quicker to get the 60, due to the traffic congestion that the X1 and X2 would get stuck in towards Poets Corner.
Got stuck in heavy congestion through Digbeth, that was the slowest part of the journey.
On arriving in the city centre, I then got on an X51 bound for Cannock, though I only intended on travelling as far as Scott Arms.
I have travelled in the past on the X51 prior to all these roadworks and demolition of the Perry Barr flyover, and distinctly recall the journey from city centre to Scott Arms taking less than 20 minutes. (Did it in 15 minutes the once!)
Perry Barr is still a mess, though the roadworks aren't yet complete. (Lanes closed off through the underpass so workers could paint some new murals for the Games!)
The only sign of any actual bus priority measures I saw on my journey that I was impressed with, was my return journey to Swan Island on the X1. I don't know if it was just coincidence, but the bus was able to glide along the new bus lane, and through the Heybarnes Circus island, without stopping, due to timing of traffic light sequences.
One other observation I made is that X1/X2 drivers seemed unsure about using the new stops at Poets Corner, also the onboard next stop announcements need updating to add these in. (May I suggest "Poets Corner, for Small Heath station"?)
The inbound bus lanes from Walsall to Birmingham are excellent, I have been bringing the hydrogens into the city in the morning peak the last two weeks and have overtaken several hundred cars, and completed the journey in as little as 25 minutes and that is before Perry Barr is finished which will take another few minutes out.
According to the published WMCA meeting agenda, the Walsall-Solihull cross city service will now not start until early 2023.
They say this is to allow the most disruptive works on Digbeth/Deritend to be completed first
There are still several standard stops on the Lode Lane and Hobs Moat Road on the A45 corridor. As well as several sprint stops.
Are the standard stops staying or are they going to be replaced at some point.
On the Hobs Moat Road there is one new sprint stop at Castle Lane out of Solihull, 2 at Solihull Ice Rink. The others older stops.
At the Swan Island the 2 old stops are both still there as well. 1 used by the 58/S16 and the old Coventry Road stop is still used by the 877 once a day.
If true, that's a major supplier of BRT artics (e.g. Belfast Glider) leaving the market. Sprint procurement implications?
https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/van-hool-stop-production-buses/
Quote from: cardew on March 13, 2024, 09:40:54 AMIf true, that's a major supplier of BRT artics (e.g. Belfast Glider) leaving the market. Sprint procurement implications?
https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/van-hool-stop-production-buses/
Great, we'll have double deckers instead !
Artics will be unpopular with passengers.