Rotala Management - Questions & Answers

[Cedric]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

Cedric,

I am not looking to have an argument, and like any business we need to balance the books otherwise the business will not be profitable.  We have tried to undertake a gradual fleet replacement.  We have chosen to remove all the m/p reg buses and we have tried to use what we have which is newer better.  At the same time we have acquired some 2006 Long Solo's, a pair of 2009 MAN Centro's and moved from Redditch a Volvo B7RLE.

From our perspective, we have now assessed the response to our network review and the Commercial team are meeting on Friday to discuss the results.


Simon

Simon  I understand  all what you  say  and all I was trying   to do was point out to some other posters that these vehicle where actually are   not older that the ex first buses they replaced .   indeed I travelled  on 2 off them today to Redditch  and back and I must say the journies where comfortable and vehicles nice to travel in . and  nice pleasant staff..  sorry if you
miss understood my post from my  bad choice of words  the last thing I wanted to do was cause a argument with you . I  have found the quality of services since diamond have taken over is a lot better. and more people seam to be using the services , I can only really  say that about the 10 and the 2  that I use  mostly . and   once again sorry  for my post giving the wrong impresstion  to you.    I know that diamond  as  a  business  needs to be profitable.   company  to blance your books to
keep giving us the good level of service you give us  now   all the best to you simon    ps and your name on there  was a mistake on my part ,

[wilmotm (Matt Wilmot)]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

It was about half and half on Tuesday and at least two Royale centros yesterday but I'm not complaining, some of the 002 Centro's are right bags, hard seats, terrible ride and some of the rattles and shakes of the interior fixtures and fittings is rediculous, worse than Pensnett's R reg O405's

[bwsau cymru]

Hi simon ive noticed that the optare versa seem to keep appearing on the 82 along with other midi sized buses. On monday this happened and there was a quite a few older people having to stand because of the smaller bus. Is there any reason to why tue citaros arent being put on it?

Also would it be better to put one of the b7 centros on the 82 rather than a versa has its got more room??

(enjoying my new diamond bus pass holder very smart I must say)
Best regards

Danny

[PM]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

It was about half and half on Tuesday and at least two Royale centros yesterday but I'm not complaining, some of the 002 Centro's are right bags, hard seats, terrible ride and some of the rattles and shakes of the interior fixtures and fittings is rediculous, worse than Pensnett's R reg O405's

Maybe this is why some of them are not on the 002 at the moment-they are off the road having some of the issues you mention addressed

[Simon Dunn]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

Matt,

30808 is under going MOT and body refurb, whilst 30809 has an on going Engine/Fuel issue which we are trying to bottom out.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hello Simon,

I have been impressed by the professionalism Diamond has shown since the takeover in Redditch and Kidderminster, but I am now concerned at the number of shorter and older buses being transferred to Kidderminster particularly replacing longer and in some case newer buses. I understand this is presumably a result of replacing all the non-DDA First vehicles acquired and the stock available to the company presently. However, my question is are there plans in the short term to increase the number of larger vehicles at Kidderminster? In the past few weeks I have noticed a high volume of MPDs on routes such as the X3, 303, 10 and 3 - the loadings of which surely deserve bigger buses. For example, last Friday an MPD was put on the first bus out of Stourport after 0930 and was full and standing all the way to Kidderminster - the driver had to tell passengers waiting in Birchen Coppice to catch the Whittle service behind! It was not a pleasant journey. I have also seen a few full and standing service 10s.

I ask because I am concerned Diamond has a risk of undoing some of the progress it has made in the area and becoming almost as disliked by passengers as FIRST! I have heard several comments from passengers moaning the service is the same, etc. Hopefully your network review will improve matters.

Apologies for the rant and essay in my first question to you.

Sam

Sam,

Since we acquired Kidderminster we have removed every Lance, and every old First Dart.  My perception is that we have replaced them apart from one or two exceptions with considerably newer versions.

I note your comment about short buses, and on some of the services you have highlighted that should not be happening.  What vehicles do you think we have removed/moved which are newer?



Simon

Simon 
this post took my interested coming from Kidderminster , I have just  had a look at  tonys fleetlist on here
and on looking  the  ex first vehicles replaced where  m/p/r regs  replaced with s/t/v/ regs ones   which  are  just a little bit newer . the only older one I have seen at that was  a L reg solo.    on the  10 there are more often than not standing loads
,as  solo , and the smaller darts are  not big enough   .at certain  times of the week.   when will we get to know  what is happing from the results of the Worcestershire review please  cedric

Cedric,

I am not looking to have an argument, and like any business we need to balance the books otherwise the business will not be profitable.  We have tried to undertake a gradual fleet replacement.  We have chosen to remove all the m/p reg buses and we have tried to use what we have which is newer better.  At the same time we have acquired some 2006 Long Solo's, a pair of 2009 MAN Centro's and moved from Redditch a Volvo B7RLE.

From our perspective, we have now assessed the response to our network review and the Commercial team are meeting on Friday to discuss the results.


Simon

Simon  I understand  all what you  say  and all I was trying   to do was point out to some other posters that these vehicle where actually are   not older that the ex first buses they replaced .   indeed I travelled  on 2 off them today to Redditch  and back and I must say the journies where comfortable and vehicles nice to travel in . and  nice pleasant staff..  sorry if you
miss understood my post from my  bad choice of words  the last thing I wanted to do was cause a argument with you . I  have found the quality of services since diamond have taken over is a lot better. and more people seam to be using the services , I can only really  say that about the 10 and the 2  that I use  mostly . and   once again sorry  for my post giving the wrong impresstion  to you.    I know that diamond  as  a  business  needs to be profitable.   company  to blance your books to
keep giving us the good level of service you give us  now   all the best to you simon    ps and your name on there  was a mistake on my part ,

I take no offence to anything you have said.

We realise that further improvements are still needed


Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi simon ive noticed that the optare versa seem to keep appearing on the 82 along with other midi sized buses. On monday this happened and there was a quite a few older people having to stand because of the smaller bus. Is there any reason to why tue citaros arent being put on it?

Also would it be better to put one of the b7 centros on the 82 rather than a versa has its got more room??

(enjoying my new diamond bus pass holder very smart I must say)
Best regards

Danny

Danny,

In the last week we have had problems with 2 Citaro's.

The agreed spares for the Signature services are the Optare Hybrids, as they are to the same specification.  Hence, why there was a Versa on the service



Simon

[PM]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

Matt,

30808 is under going MOT and body refurb, whilst 30809 has an on going Engine/Fuel issue which we are trying to bottom out.



Simon

Will you be repainting 30808 and if so will it be into diamond blue livery or the double o 2 green?

Also, as you operate VDL /centros is rotala keen on them as a type? Is so, would http://www.arrivabusandcoach.co.uk/stockPage.php?cb=1&nu=0 be something rotala would consider.

Are ex lease buses like e200s and streetlites something rotala would consider of value as well? http://www.mistral-bus.com/used-bus-sales/



Thanks

Peter

[Simon Dunn]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

Matt,

30808 is under going MOT and body refurb, whilst 30809 has an on going Engine/Fuel issue which we are trying to bottom out.



Simon

Will you be repainting 30808 and if so will it be into diamond blue livery or the double o 2 green?

Also, as you operate VDL /centros is rotala keen on them as a type? Is so, would http://www.arrivabusandcoach.co.uk/stockPage.php?cb=1&nu=0 be something rotala would consider.

Are ex lease buses like e200s and streetlites something rotala would consider of value as well? http://www.mistral-bus.com/used-bus-sales/



Thanks

Peter

Peter

1.  There is no plan to repaint the 002 buses.
2.  I have no plans to buy any more VDL's.  It is a none standard bus for us.  We have 5, which we had to acquire in 2007 when Plaxtons told me the day of delivery for the Park & Ride buses, that they couldn't deliver.
3.  I have recently just acquired a number Streetlites off Mistral.  The condition of them was unacceptable, and unless they do something to deal with this, we won't be buying any more buses from them




Simon

[winston]

Hi Simon,

1. I think I may have touched on part of this before? I've noticed that there are a number of 08/09 plate MAN/Wright Meridians currently for sale on the second-hand market with Drew Wilson & now Ensign have taken two in during Nov ex Premiere, plus Santander have a number of similar aged examples for hire

The 08/09 plate examples at Drew Wilson are priced £65k each, when compared to what Rotala where originally asking for their 5 ex Whitelaw 04 plate B7RLE/Wright Eclipse that Yourbus acquired, them seem very competitively priced, would you agree? Or are they that poor a product?

http://www.drewwilson.co.uk/type/bus/

2. Additionally, is Rotala Group's only real option to fund any future acquisitions via debt financing? In the past additional funds have normally been raised through the issue of additional shares to raise capital for expansion, is there a limit on how many time you can do this due to diluting major shareholders percentage stakes. 

3. If Rotala are successful in selling one or both of Long Acre & Shady Lane depot, do Rotala plan to re-invest the money back in to the West Midland operations or pay down some of the existing debt? Or a bit of both?

[PM]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

Matt,

30808 is under going MOT and body refurb, whilst 30809 has an on going Engine/Fuel issue which we are trying to bottom out.



Simon

Will you be repainting 30808 and if so will it be into diamond blue livery or the double o 2 green?

Also, as you operate VDL /centros is rotala keen on them as a type? Is so, would http://www.arrivabusandcoach.co.uk/stockPage.php?cb=1&nu=0 be something rotala would consider.

Are ex lease buses like e200s and streetlites something rotala would consider of value as well? http://www.mistral-bus.com/used-bus-sales/



Thanks

Peter

Peter

1.  There is no plan to repaint the 002 buses.
2.  I have no plans to buy any more VDL's.  It is a none standard bus for us.  We have 5, which we had to acquire in 2007 when Plaxtons told me the day of delivery for the Park & Ride buses, that they couldn't deliver.
3.  I have recently just acquired a number Streetlites off Mistral.  The condition of them was unacceptable, and unless they do something to deal with this, we won't be buying any more buses from them




Simon

Thanks very much Simon

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does a body refurb mean? Is it external or internal or a bit of both?

I can understand about the VDLs-did rotala not want to just lease them so they could be returned when the volvos arrived? Would it make sense to ultimately move them over to tividale as they run several sb120s?

And were the buses acquired from mistral the ones that entered the fleet at wessex that were secondhand, or have more been bought since?

I was also wondering which buses you plan to repaint next

Finally, noticed this picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/karloakley/9701165310/in/pool-rotala-group/ and it looks extremely smart. Could a similar vinyl be used on diamond buses to advertise return fares on key routes?

Thanks again

Peter

[bwsau cymru]

Hi simon ive noticed a few people talking about what buses to buy so I thought id ask along the same lines.

now that you have had them a while what is your opinion on the optare versa and the versa hybrid?
are they good value for money in the sense of fuel consumption and original buying cost compared to other builders?
would you consider buying anymore new/second hand?
would you consider buying any optare tempos?

Regards

Danny

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

1. I think I may have touched on part of this before? I've noticed that there are a number of 08/09 plate MAN/Wright Meridians currently for sale on the second-hand market with Drew Wilson & now Ensign have taken two in during Nov ex Premiere, plus Santander have a number of similar aged examples for hire

The 08/09 plate examples at Drew Wilson are priced £65k each, when compared to what Rotala where originally asking for their 5 ex Whitelaw 04 plate B7RLE/Wright Eclipse that Yourbus acquired, them seem very competitively priced, would you agree? Or are they that poor a product?

http://www.drewwilson.co.uk/type/bus/

2. Additionally, is Rotala Group's only real option to fund any future acquisitions via debt financing? In the past additional funds have normally been raised through the issue of additional shares to raise capital for expansion, is there a limit on how many time you can do this due to diluting major shareholders percentage stakes. 

3. If Rotala are successful in selling one or both of Long Acre & Shady Lane depot, do Rotala plan to re-invest the money back in to the West Midland operations or pay down some of the existing debt? Or a bit of both?

Winston,

1.  Ironically I got offered these buses on Friday, and was told me to make an offer.  So I did,  the offer I made was substantially below the £65K you mention.  I don't think they will accept it.
2.  Providing an acquisition is earnings enhancing from a shareholder perspective we will get support for whatever we want to do.  Issuing equity if needed has never been a problem, nor do we expect it to be going forward.
3.  Rotala EBITDA is over £6 million, Dividend is less than 10% of this, so in essence every year we generate millions every year to pay down debt, to reinvest or for acquisitions.  The biggest desire from the Board, the Shareholders and I is for growth.  As I sit here today, we intend to put formulate a structured fleet replacement programme for Preston, there are at present (unless we are awarded new business) no new or replacement vehicle requirements for the South West or London, so the only other fleet requirement is the West Midlands in which we recognise we need to replace a number of short buses with longer buses.  The purpose of considering the sale of Long Acre is to improve efficiency and in doing so financial performance, and increase available cash for investment without the need for Equity



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

Matt,

30808 is under going MOT and body refurb, whilst 30809 has an on going Engine/Fuel issue which we are trying to bottom out.



Simon

Will you be repainting 30808 and if so will it be into diamond blue livery or the double o 2 green?

Also, as you operate VDL /centros is rotala keen on them as a type? Is so, would http://www.arrivabusandcoach.co.uk/stockPage.php?cb=1&nu=0 be something rotala would consider.

Are ex lease buses like e200s and streetlites something rotala would consider of value as well? http://www.mistral-bus.com/used-bus-sales/



Thanks

Peter

Peter

1.  There is no plan to repaint the 002 buses.
2.  I have no plans to buy any more VDL's.  It is a none standard bus for us.  We have 5, which we had to acquire in 2007 when Plaxtons told me the day of delivery for the Park & Ride buses, that they couldn't deliver.
3.  I have recently just acquired a number Streetlites off Mistral.  The condition of them was unacceptable, and unless they do something to deal with this, we won't be buying any more buses from them




Simon

Thanks very much Simon

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does a body refurb mean? Is it external or internal or a bit of both?

I can understand about the VDLs-did rotala not want to just lease them so they could be returned when the volvos arrived? Would it make sense to ultimately move them over to tividale as they run several sb120s?

And were the buses acquired from mistral the ones that entered the fleet at wessex that were secondhand, or have more been bought since?

I was also wondering which buses you plan to repaint next

Finally, noticed this picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/karloakley/9701165310/in/pool-rotala-group/ and it looks extremely smart. Could a similar vinyl be used on diamond buses to advertise return fares on key routes?

Thanks again

Peter

Peter,

1.  We are undertaking work to repanel the vehicle.
2.  I was told the day of delivery so there was no time other than to just pay for them.
3.  Yes, the Wessex vehicles
4.  We have a long list of vehicles based at Tividale, we are looking to repaint.
5.  We are in the process of vinyl up a large number of buses with fares offers.





Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi simon ive noticed a few people talking about what buses to buy so I thought id ask along the same lines.

now that you have had them a while what is your opinion on the optare versa and the versa hybrid?
are they good value for money in the sense of fuel consumption and original buying cost compared to other builders?
would you consider buying anymore new/second hand?
would you consider buying any optare tempos?

Regards

Danny

Danny,

1.  Normal Versa

I am not sure when I would ever buy one.  In terms of Value for money, as prices sit today they are too close to a heavier/better product being a Citaro or Volvo Wrights Eclipse to consider buying one.

2.  Hybrid Versa

The vehicles were good value for money as they were 100% additional cost funded, without this there is no justification to buy them.

3.  Second Hand Versa 

I was offered some a couple of months ago, and I wasn't interested.  I am not sure, but they are not my first choice.

4.  Optare Tempo's

I don't think so.  There are enough vehicles for sale, of products we do operate.




Simon