Is there any good archive/collection of route maps showing routes around the west midlands from anytime around 2000-2005? been trying to look for them on internet archives but cant find any that still work properly.
Not sure but perhaps Wythall might have some or possibly the archives of one of the council's?
The Bus Archive at Walsall has a comprehensive collection of Centro maps - and maps and timetables for other periods and places - which you are welcome to arrange to see. Details on the archive and visiting are here:-
https://www.busarchive.org.uk/visit-us.shtml (https://www.busarchive.org.uk/visit-us.shtml)
On that page, click on "Walsall" to see how to book a place.
I have found one on my PC from 2009. Probably a bit too new for you.
[url="https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=4172;type=preview;file"]Birmingham Bus Map 2009.pdf[/url]
Quote from: sryan188 on April 24, 2023, 11:24:04 PMI have found one on my PC from 2009. Probably a bit too new for you.
Birmingham Bus Map 2009.pdf (https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=4172;type=preview;file)
thats fine thank you ive just been looking for the oldest ones i could with an aim for 2000-2005 but finding anything online from then that still works is near impossible lmao especially since a lot of names from then no longer use the same sites and names
Quote from: EK40 on April 25, 2023, 11:51:05 AMthats fine thank you ive just been looking for the oldest ones i could with an aim for 2000-2005 but finding anything online from then that still works is near impossible lmao especially since a lot of names from then no longer use the same sites and names
I have a 1984 WMPTE Map and a 2002 Birmingham Map in physical. I have done a photo as high res as possible for upload to here and it is just about readable when zooming in. They make interesting reading comparing now to 20 and 40 years ago. Didn't realise till I just worked out the age how old these maps actually are.
Quite interesting to see how many routes there used to be, compared to now. Sad sign of the times really.
Some routes I don't even remember looking at that 2009 map. Like, what was the 86 for example?
Quote from: MasterPlan on April 25, 2023, 06:51:35 PMQuite interesting to see how many routes there used to be, compared to now. Sad sign of the times really.
Some routes I don't even remember looking at that 2009 map. Like, what was the 86 for example?
This looks like an 86 that was following parts of the old MRW 86 between Woodgate Valley and Northfield. The old 86 had long since gone, having been seen off by WMTs 44 in the mid 90s. I know Patterson's had a version of the 86 for a time but this seems too late for that one so answers on a postcard.
Quote from: SO6597 on April 25, 2023, 09:46:26 PMThis looks like an 86 that was following parts of the old MRW 86 between Woodgate Valley and Northfield.
Woodgate Valley South to Rubery Great Park operated by Diamond Buses.
Looks like it was succeeded by the 39A Woodgate Valley South to Longbridge. Operated by Kevs today. As part of the 2010 South Birmingham service revisions it seems.
Quote from: 2206 on April 25, 2023, 10:07:07 PMWoodgate Valley South to Rubery Great Park operated by Diamond Buses.
Looks like it was succeeded by the 39A Woodgate Valley South to Longbridge. Operated by Kevs today. As part of the 2010 South Birmingham service revisions it seems.
The 86 survived the 2009 South Birmingham changes as per the 'Change for the better' leaflet when the 630 was changed to the 39. It looks like as you suggested it happened in 2010 as the 86 disappeared from the 2010 map with the 39A introduced.
Thanks for those maps. Really really interesting, especially the 1984 one. The (unobserved) bus stop on West Bromwich Road near the Fullbrook had the 404 on it well into the 2000's and even into the 2010s even though it has served Weston Street ever since I remember. I moved onto Weston St in 1990 (in the 1990s, initially the 404 was a 12 minute service and I caught the 401/402 to school in the Yew Tree from the top of Weston St). I had no idea why until now.
Is it too much to ask for you to share the reverse of the 1984 map as well? Apparently it shows the Cannock and Lichfield routes on it. Thanks in advance Syran188 if you will.
Quote from: Budgie on April 30, 2023, 04:16:06 PMThanks for those maps. Really really interesting, especially the 1984 one. The (unobserved) bus stop on West Bromwich Road near the Fullbrook had the 404 on it well into the 2000's and even into the 2010s even though it has served Weston Street ever since I remember. I moved onto Weston St in 1990 (in the 1990s, initially the 404 was a 12 minute service and I caught the 401/402 to school in the Yew Tree from the top of Weston St). I had no idea why until now.
Is it too much to ask for you to share the reverse of the 1984 map as well? Apparently it shows the Cannock and Lichfield routes on it. Thanks in advance Syran188 if you will.
I have attached the Cannock/Lichfield map from the back as well as the Coventry Map and route list.
I can try to do a better picture in better light as some of the numbers are barely readable.
Quote from: sryan188 on May 03, 2023, 11:34:08 PMI have attached the Cannock/Lichfield map from the back as well as the Coventry Map and route list.
I can try to do a better picture in better light as some of the numbers are barely readable.
The Coventry map shows all the changes made after April 21st 1985, but I think includes some services that still ran pre-deregulation (service 1 to Stoke Heath etc). So its certainly from the 1985/86 period!
Quote from: paulb1973 on May 04, 2023, 03:22:41 PMThe Coventry map shows all the changes made after April 21st 1985, but I think includes some services that still ran pre-deregulation (service 1 to Stoke Heath etc). So its certainly from the 1985/86 period!
The front of the map states
1984/2 but as you say does look to include April 1985 changes like the 13 extended to replace the 15 to Whitmore Park and buses serving the new estates in Tanyard Farm & Victoria Farm. It is before May 1985 though as the 900 does not exist on the map yet and for instance the 301 still runs through Walsall to Dudley where in May 1985 the Walsall to Dudley section became the 311. I assume the map is around April 1985 even though it states 1984 (the 1984/2 could refer to financial year 1984 which would run to April 1985)
Quick question - does anyone have a 2008 Sandwell and Dudley map that has the routings for the 449 (West Brom - Brandhall/Bearwood) and 450 (West Brom - Bearwood/Brandhall) Diamond routes? (I've got the timetable leaflet, but the Diamond timetable doesn't have a route description, like many of the other ones they printed in 2008)
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 13, 2023, 04:43:28 AMQuick question - does anyone have a 2008 Sandwell and Dudley map that has the routings for the 449 (West Brom - Brandhall/Bearwood) and 450 (West Brom - Bearwood/Brandhall) Diamond routes? (I've got the timetable leaflet, but the Diamond timetable doesn't have a route description, like many of the other ones they printed in 2008)
I don't have a copy of the route map but they were basically circular services which combined thre NXWm 449 and 450.
At the time the 449 ran West Bromwich to Brandhall, and so the Diamond Route then extended via Kingsway and Hagley Road West to Bearwood, then turned left onto High Street where it picked up the 450 route.
Between Brandhall and Bearwood I believe the buses could show either 449 or 450 as I'm pretty sure through tickets were available.
QuoteI don't have a copy of the route map but they were basically circular services which combined thre NXWm 449 and 450.
At the time the 449 ran West Bromwich to Brandhall, and so the Diamond Route then extended via Kingsway and Hagley Road West to Bearwood, then turned left onto High Street where it picked up the 450 route.
Between Brandhall and Bearwood I believe the buses could show either 449 or 450 as I'm pretty sure through tickets were available.
Cheers. I know its not the only time Diamond had routes which showed one number in one direction but another in another direction (I found a old timetable which was for the 217/247/248 which had buses from Blackheath or Dudley to Stourbridge show 248, buses from Stourbridge to Blackheath show 217 and buses from Stourbridge to Dudley show 247 (despite being three distinct routes (247/8 Dudley - Stourbridge and 217 Merry Hill - Blackheath))
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 13, 2023, 11:15:08 AMCheers. I know its not the only time Diamond had routes which showed one number in one direction but another in another direction (I found a old timetable which was for the 217/247/248 which had buses from Blackheath or Dudley to Stourbridge show 248, buses from Stourbridge to Blackheath show 217 and buses from Stourbridge to Dudley show 247 (despite being three distinct routes (247/8 Dudley - Stourbridge and 217 Merry Hill - Blackheath))
The other example is when Diamond took over the 443 Birmingham - Brandhall - Bearwood route and interworked it with the 222 from Bearwood to West Bromwich.
I believe in the West Brom direction it showed 443 between Bearwood and Brandhall, but 221 in the opposite direction, with through tickets available again
Think it was a Go West Midlands thing!
Quote from: sryan188 on April 25, 2023, 06:06:31 PMI have a 1984 WMPTE Map and a 2002 Birmingham Map in physical. I have done a photo as high res as possible for upload to here and it is just about readable when zooming in. They make interesting reading comparing now to 20 and 40 years ago. Didn't realise till I just worked out the age how old these maps actually are.
Thank you so much for the 1984 map, it's brought back a lot of good and not quite as good memories for me, especially seeing routes I used all the time at that time.
It's amazing how the routes and numbers have changed over the 39 years since that map was printed, it's a real slice of history.