Two Enviro 200's are at Adderley Green for transfer to Worcester, ex ensign.
33403 has moved internally from Redditch to Worcester.
4 x Ex First Essex Trident/Presidents are also due at Redditch, likely to be from the batches T8--LLC, T8--KLF or V8--HBY originally ex First London.
It well be the 33072 & 33073 are only on loan and actually due for Essex, especially as they are in the new First livery with Redditch being on the for sale list
as expected 33404/5 have also moved to Worcester, the two E200's mentioned above are from TownLynx.
32860 has shown up at Redditch with 33072/3 withdrawn from service today.
Surely yo mean withdrawn for transfer elsewhere? As I have said under Leyland Olympians/Volvo Citybses, first need to remove these not LF double decks.
sconehead85
Quote from: sconehead85 on August 17, 2012, 09:51:24 PM
Surely yo mean withdrawn for transfer elsewhere? As I have said under Leyland Olympians/Volvo Citybses, first need to remove these not LF double decks.
sconehead85
33072/3 are destined for First Essex and therefore only on loan to Redditch, Redditch are to receive 4 older Tridents ex First Essex (the first of which has already arrived) which I assume will replace the remaining step entrance deckers
of course i meant for transfer to Essex, 31452 returned to service today and 34285 has a secondhand rear axle newly fitted so i think these Tridents will replace 34302 and 33403-5.
Quote from: jc on August 17, 2012, 10:19:20 PM
of course i meant for transfer to Essex, 31452 returned to service today and 34285 has a secondhand rear axle newly fitted so i think these Tridents will replace 34302 and 33403-5.
I guess it makes sense for newer 33403-5 to transfer to WR now that the Redditch operation is reported to be on the market
To my knowlegde from reading many Redditch Bourgh Council papers that 1 54 plate Trident is ment to stay at Redditch due to some of the funding that First had with them to get them. But then again I could be wrong or First have forget.
32860 seen in Redditch depot Sunday morning - http://www.flickr.com/photos/55059449@N06/7815835086/in/photostream/
DX57 SPZ - Has now shown up at Worcester Garage and is in the latest livery.
32894 has shown up at Redditch (Trident / President)
MX07 OZD has shown up at Worcester in new Livery (Enviro 200)
32862 has joined the fleet, not sure where tho but she is now in worcestershire. I wounder what is replacing these buses in essex is it Ex Olymic or is it going to be ex Paraolympic 400's.
32862 is at Redditch, so there back to 8 deckers there - 32860/2, 32877, 32894, 38123/6, 31452 and 34285.
33403-5 are all at Worcester and at least one of there E200's is in service.
33405 had a blown head gasket but from another site i hear its ment to be heading back to Redditch. Also 33403 had a hick up in Droitwich.
32857/81/82/85/86 - Are rumoured to be coming this way from First Essex, apparently due for Redditch to wipe out the Steppy Deckers.
Does anyone know what the fleet numbers are of the two Enviro 200's and if they are in service with full working blinds please???
36222 was running from Worcester today.
The two Enviros remain numberless and were in service but without LED's last update i heard.
Quote from: jc on September 13, 2012, 07:28:50 PM
36222 was running from Worcester today.
The two Enviros remain numberless and were in service but without LED's last update i heard.
36222 was not running from Worcester today!
Thanks jc.
On Another note what are First doing with all these new buses, because there does seem to be alot. To me it would seem pointless to put them into the new barbie livery just for the olympics then paint some red for London, and they also have garages up for sale. Then a new bus pops up in Birmingham. This is now pure speculation but does anyone think they are trying for services in Birmingham which is why the selling of the Redditch and Kiddie Depot has gone quite. I say that because if I was going to tender for services and I have a garage close by I'd use that/them to start with before finding somewhere closer to where I wanted to be.
The method behind my maddness is that there does seem to be a lot of new buses and I would have said that they would have desplaced a heck of a lot old step entrance buses through out the UK, but they seem to be slow in moving things around the place. And why would you send a new bus not in service to Birmingham if you only ran 2 routes in and around the city (144 and 146). It just seems a little to odd to me thats all.
Quote from: tank90 on September 13, 2012, 11:07:59 PM
Thanks jc.
On Another note what are First doing with all these new buses, because there does seem to be alot. To me it would seem pointless to put them into the new barbie livery just for the olympics then paint some red for London, and they also have garages up for sale. Then a new bus pops up in Birmingham. This is now pure speculation but does anyone think they are trying for services in Birmingham which is why the selling of the Redditch and Kiddie Depot has gone quite. I say that because if I was going to tender for services and I have a garage close by I'd use that/them to start with before finding somewhere closer to where I wanted to be.
The method behind my maddness is that there does seem to be a lot of new buses and I would have said that they would have desplaced a heck of a lot old step entrance buses through out the UK, but they seem to be slow in moving things around the place. And why would you send a new bus not in service to Birmingham if you only ran 2 routes in and around the city (144 and 146). It just seems a little to odd to me thats all.
[/quote
Most if not all of the 100 x Volvo B9TL/Wright Eclispe Gemini are going to FWY (Leeds Hunslet Park depot)
A small batch of the new ADL Enviro 400's have returned to FDC (Plymouth depot for park & ride work), the remaining 90 something are going to Manchester
ok that makes sense but what about the rest of the of the £160million pounds worth of vechicals that still havent arrived?
I know first have already spent most of it already with Wright and Dennis since April 2011 but they put in an order for 955 new buses by 2013, I would have thought they couldnt inclued those that they get from TfL in there propergander for improving there services and buses as they dont always put money in to London if TfL are (or thats what i ve got from reading around the web any way) . Now Im sure that would replace most and if not the step entrance buses (single or double) in there fleets and then some. Or am I looking to much into and plus looking at there website just they look to still have Barnstaple. But surely they would displace other buses from those necks of the woods that could be moved around abit to replace some of the old tat that they have.
Quote from: tank90 on September 13, 2012, 11:36:11 PM
ok that makes sense but what about the rest of the of the £160million pounds worth of vechicals that still havent arrived?
I know first have already spent most of it already with Wright and Dennis since April 2011 but they put in an order for 955 new buses by 2013, I would have thought they couldnt inclued those that they get from TfL in there propergander for improving there services and buses as they dont always put money in to London if TfL are (or thats what i ve got from reading around the web any way) . Now Im sure that would replace most and if not the step entrance buses (single or double) in there fleets and then some. Or am I looking to much into and plus looking at there website just they look to still have Barnstaple. But surely they would displace other buses from those necks of the woods that could be moved around abit to replace some of the old tat that they have.
The Barnstable operation closes this weekend coming I believe, any decent vehicles from that op will no doubt transfer to Plymouth or Camborne. Yes First did announce orders in total for 955 new vehicles, but order breakdowns were sketchy other than those for the Olympics, I think the bulk of the order was due for delivery in late 2012 & 2013. As for allocations nothing has been reported to date. Newer buses will no doubt be transferred out of those garages / operations which are currently up for sale, but all seems to have gone quiet on the sales front.
Quote from: Winston on September 14, 2012, 12:16:19 AM
operations which are currently up for sale, but all seems to have gone quiet on the sales front.
I was thinking they said that they were selling to 1 raise there share prices 2 let companies have a look and see if they wanted to buy anything and thirdly to launch a new focus on services in all areas regardless of whether they are up for sale or not.
Barnstaple.
Specifically the last buses to operate on Services 1, 2, 3, 5/5C, 8, 30/30C, 31, 32, X7 and X9 will run on Saturday 22 September. After that it closes as they looked through the other bidders again and found none that wanted to give them as much as Stagecoach; which I take to mean that Stagecoach didnt want any strong compation in Barnstaple when First left.
Quote from: tank90 on September 14, 2012, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: Winston on September 14, 2012, 12:16:19 AM
operations which are currently up for sale, but all seems to have gone quiet on the sales front.
I was thinking they said that they were selling to 1 raise there share prices 2 let companies have a look and see if they wanted to buy anything and thirdly to launch a new focus on services in all areas regardless of whether they are up for sale or not.
Barnstaple.
Specifically the last buses to operate on Services 1, 2, 3, 5/5C, 8, 30/30C, 31, 32, X7 and X9 will run on Saturday 22 September. After that it closes as they looked through the other bidders again and found none that wanted to give them as much as Stagecoach; which I take to mean that Stagecoach didnt want any strong compation in Barnstaple when First left.
First are planning to sell off underperforming / loss making operations in an attempt to raise £100million to reduce the groups debts, so far the process isn't going very well. They have sold Northumberland Park garage of First London to Go-Ahead London and been forced to close down the Barnstable operation loosing the further sale proceeds when Stagecoach pulled out of the deal. New vehicles / investment / new services / increased frequencies will no doubt only be concentrated on the profitable areas which will be remaining in the group and where good returns can be made quickly on their investments
that is true Winston but I get the feeling no one will want to buy half of it because everyone wants a bit of profit from there investments too. its unlikely in my view redditch will be sold. the reason i say that is because any new bus will cost slightly more due to the fact they have protective screens. so im not sure if First are going to sell everything they want to as most companies are looking at cutting to make more as the price of fuel goes up.
Any company having a bit of a fire sale will put more in the sale catalogue than what they intend to sell. In the highly unlikely circumstances they get an acceptable offer for every operation, they can then cherry pick the bits they would rather keep once the other sales have achieved the intended income. They will not be expecting to, or wanting to sell all of what they have made available, they are spreading their bets. If an operation is loss making as most of North Devon clearly was, they can simply deregister if they don't get a sale. The Midlands depots they are offering are clearly not loss making, maybe just less lucrative than other areas of the company. Otherwise surely they would just 'Barnstaple' them.
Quote from: andy on September 14, 2012, 04:40:07 PM
Any company having a bit of a fire sale will put more in the sale catalogue than what they intend to sell. In the highly unlikely circumstances they get an acceptable offer for every operation, they can then cherry pick the bits they would rather keep once the other sales have achieved the intended income. They will not be expecting to, or wanting to sell all of what they have made available, they are spreading their bets. If an operation is loss making as most of North Devon clearly was, they can simply deregister if they don't get a sale. The Midlands depots they are offering are clearly not loss making, maybe just less lucrative than other areas of the company. Otherwise surely they would just 'Barnstaple' them.
Remember, even Barnstable was worth a couple of Million until some busybody civil servants decided they were going to stop First receiving the money. I don't know if Redditch is profitable or not, I suspect the latter though while Rotala are in town, but even an operation making a loss for one operator may not make a loss for another due to lower overheads. For example, if another operator with a garage within a reasonable distance could merge the two operations and save half the overheads.
I would imagine stagecoach's bid for Barnstable was based on the value of the assetts involved (property/buses). With the services merged with their own, bith the ex First routes would have lower overheads as would Stagecoach's existing services, so the ex First routes are loss making for First bu profitable for Stagecoach
Obviously,your example of Stagecoach/First in Barnstaple is correct,but have you ever considered the reverse argument?
If First were to have taken over Stagecoach in Barnstaple it is still unlikely that they would have been able to create a profitable operation.The philosophy of Firstgroup seems to be flawed throughout.......local control and decision making is an alien concept to First,even this new livery (if it justifies the description) is being imposed on all subsidiaries.
How much more pride would be generated in local companies if they were allowed freedom of choice in even this small area.National liveries are great when a company is perceived to be a success but when one part is let down,the whole Company suffers.
First would likely be a great operator in say Russia.
Quote from: arrifirststage on September 14, 2012, 06:56:49 PM
Obviously,your example of Stagecoach/First in Barnstaple is correct,but have you ever considered the reverse argument?
If First were to have taken over Stagecoach in Barnstaple it is still unlikely that they would have been able to create a profitable operation.The philosophy of Firstgroup seems to be flawed throughout.......local control and decision making is an alien concept to First,even this new livery (if it justifies the description) is being imposed on all subsidiaries.
How much more pride would be generated in local companies if they were allowed freedom of choice in even this small area.National liveries are great when a company is perceived to be a success but when one part is let down,the whole Company suffers.
First would likely be a great operator in say Russia.
Totally agree. Need local management and not say in Chelmsford for the WM business. MRW should have its own livery and buying policy and should focus on boosting business as opposed to cutting costs. And yes, I agree with you-first would have been great in the USSR!!!
Quote from: Peter123 on September 14, 2012, 07:01:21 PM
Quote from: arrifirststage on September 14, 2012, 06:56:49 PM
Obviously,your example of Stagecoach/First in Barnstaple is correct,but have you ever considered the reverse argument?
If First were to have taken over Stagecoach in Barnstaple it is still unlikely that they would have been able to create a profitable operation.The philosophy of Firstgroup seems to be flawed throughout.......local control and decision making is an alien concept to First,even this new livery (if it justifies the description) is being imposed on all subsidiaries.
How much more pride would be generated in local companies if they were allowed freedom of choice in even this small area.National liveries are great when a company is perceived to be a success but when one part is let down,the whole Company suffers.
First would likely be a great operator in say Russia.
Totally agree. Need local management and not say in Chelmsford for the WM business. MRW should have its own livery and buying policy and should focus on boosting business as opposed to cutting costs. And yes, I agree with you-first would have been great in the USSR!!!
While I agree a lot of decision making should be local, livery and buying policy would make no difference to MRW. A lot of people don't know or care what the colour for buses in in the rest of the country, and to them 'barbie' is the local livery as that is what colour their buses are, if they head North (NXWM), they are Red & White, East they are Stagecoach swoops, and North West they are an unusual shade of green (Arriva).
As for buying police, if you don't buy any new buses for 7 years a new vehicle policy is pointless! Even if new buses were to arrive a big group gets a much better price on bulk purchases so a one off order for a few buses each year would only increase costs against allocating a few buses from a big group order spread around the country.
This is not in defence of First at all I think they are by far the worst of the big groups, but new vehicle types and liveries are the least of MRW's problems
Again I agree with all your comments but........for almost 20 years my Brother was MD for Midland Red West from the split of Midland Red,through the Badgerline era and into the First takeover.
Originally taking over around 180 buses,the fleet grew to around 250 (admittedly with an influx of Minis) and the Company was very well perceived in it's area.
Staff morale,while never perfect,was helped by face to face meetings with a management who had some influence over their own destiny.
Enter First........most major decisions were now made in Aberdeen,with even the senior managers at local Companies (certainly at MR West) having very little input.Having thus destroyed morale and more importantly initiative among Senior men,is it any wonder that this was transmitted down the line to drivers,fitters etc?
Attitudes of indifference thus became the norm,causing the travelling public to be relegated to mere inconveniences.
I can only reveal that my Brother,and I am sure many other senior First local managers,were eager to take retirement or to leave for other jobs ASAP with First thus losing many ,many years of experience.
One other point......Companies seem to do better with traffic men in major positions rather than engineers.
Quote from: arrifirststage on September 14, 2012, 09:47:47 PM
Again I agree with all your comments but........for almost 20 years my Brother was MD for Midland Red West from the split of Midland Red,through the Badgerline era and into the First takeover.
Originally taking over around 180 buses,the fleet grew to around 250 (admittedly with an influx of Minis) and the Company was very well perceived in it's area.
Staff morale,while never perfect,was helped by face to face meetings with a management who had some influence over their own destiny.
Enter First........most major decisions were now made in Aberdeen,with even the senior managers at local Companies (certainly at MR West) having very little input.Having thus destroyed morale and more importantly initiative among Senior men,is it any wonder that this was transmitted down the line to drivers,fitters etc?
Attitudes of indifference thus became the norm,causing the travelling public to be relegated to mere inconveniences.
I can only reveal that my Brother,and I am sure many other senior First local managers,were eager to take retirement or to leave for other jobs ASAP with First thus losing many ,many years of experience.
One other point......Companies seem to do better with traffic men in major positions rather than engineers.
I can sympathise with your assessment of how a good, well run and autonomous business can dissolve into that, I have experienced a similar scenario with one of my employers (not a bus operator). It can happen remarkably quickly aswell.
I remember being jealous of MRW when I was at MRN and we ended up with Drawlane and MRW got Badgerline. They seemed much more like bus people yet the business still appeared to be lucrative and profitable. The problem with organisations like First is that they view operations as 'corridors' and don't much bother about joining things up or having a network or identity. It's all about the corridor being profitable or not. If it isn't, it goes, no thought of trying to invest in it to build it up. Very balance sheet orientated and this doesn't work in an area where you are the predominant operator.
I worked under Badgerline briefly when they acquired Frontline. Everybody in the company I came into contact with seemed professional, competent and knowledgable and resources were good. Decisions could be made easily and effectively and they were good to work for. I would imagine things changed very quickly with First.