These have really picked up recently. Walsall to west brom section very busy, 4M from merry hill to west brom packed as was 4H from west brom to halesowen that I caught as well. Seems as if the new buses have made an impact tho still a lot of cadets on there along with the euro 3 dart-30849. Further b7rles should help still further
Quote from: Peter123 on June 12, 2013, 08:42:57 PM
These have really picked up recently. Walsall to west brom section very busy, 4M from merry hill to west brom packed as was 4H from west brom to halesowen that I caught as well. Seems as if the new buses have made an impact tho still a lot of cadets on there along with the euro 3 dart-30849. Further b7rles should help still further
I'm not surprised the 4M has got busier, the curtailing of the 289 means the 4M is the only direct route between West Bromwich and Merry Hill, I imagine NXWM's 4M has also increased in patronage
I haven't been on the 4M since the 289 was cutback but previously it always seemed to be busy between Cradley Heath and Merry Hill especially may be they should up the frequency to every half hour. The b7rle's are fantastic buses, the cadets have seen better days but do the job at the moment.
Quote from: Ash on June 12, 2013, 10:23:36 PM
I haven't been on the 4M since the 289 was cutback but previously it always seemed to be busy between Cradley Heath and Merry Hill especially may be they should up the frequency to every half hour. The b7rle's are fantastic buses, the cadets have seen better days but do the job at the moment.
Most routes are busy between Cradley Heath and Merry Hill, a lot of people get off the train and get on the bus to Merry Hill. I'm surprised Diamond didn't set the 4M frequency to every 30 minutes to compete with NXWM's 4M considering the route to Merry Hill was initially their idea
Quote from: Shaun on June 13, 2013, 12:03:54 AM
Quote from: Ash on June 12, 2013, 10:23:36 PM
I haven't been on the 4M since the 289 was cutback but previously it always seemed to be busy between Cradley Heath and Merry Hill especially may be they should up the frequency to every half hour. The b7rle's are fantastic buses, the cadets have seen better days but do the job at the moment.
Most routes are busy between Cradley Heath and Merry Hill, a lot of people get off the train and get on the bus to Merry Hill. I'm surprised Diamond didn't set the 4M frequency to every 30 minutes to compete with NXWM's 4M considering the route to Merry Hill was initially their idea
Not enough buses maybe that aren't knackered Darts compared to the newer and new Volvos.
I personally think tyat stand sharing with nx at walsall is helping as people will generally jump on the first bus there
Most of the time its a nxwm bus thats on there first as there is often more than one nxwm service 4 bus in bradford place at one time but i agree it has had some effect on passenger loadings for diamond if they are able to get onto the first stand. Unlike some operators at least diamond and NXWM don't try to hog the stand i.e wait for one of their companies buses to arrive before they leave and both companies stick to the timetable and vacate the stand even if the competitors bus is the next to take up the stand they are leaving.
Diamond Bus 4H Every 10 Minutes from Monday
https://www.diamondbuses.com/west-midlands/service-updates/wm-changes-150620/
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on July 14, 2020, 04:46:14 PM
Diamond Bus 4H Every 10 Minutes from Monday
https://www.diamondbuses.com/west-midlands/service-updates/wm-changes-150620/
Haha fair play too them. Let's see how many are seen running together
They could do a West Midlands Bus partnership with these (at a more appropriate time!) to encourage people to get the first bus that arrives.
The WMCA were unable to reach an agreement with the operators for West Midlands Bus to be introduced on the 4/4H/4M at the time due to the complexity of the service and the fact both operators do not operate on all sections of the route(s) however with the new legislation in place there may be scope for an Quality Enhanced Partnership at a later date however the emphasis at present are the QEP consultations currently being undertaken.
It's going to get daft once Diamond increase their 4H to every 10 mins (Mon-Fri) from 19th July. It will be up too 9 bph on the 4H serving Hasbury / Hayley Green (6 x Diamond, 3 x NXWM), already some journey's end up following each other & most carry fresh air / only a handful of passengers.
It was only 7 Bph even pre-Covid levels, (4 x Diamond, 3 x NXWM), even then they weren't busy enough this end to warrant that frequency.
Quote from: Winston on July 16, 2020, 02:33:11 PM
It's going to get daft once Diamond increase their 4H to every 10 mins (Mon-Fri) from 19th July. It will be up too 9 bph on the 4H serving Hasbury / Hayley Green (6 x Diamond, 3 x NXWM), already some journey's end up following each other & most carry fresh air / only a handful of passengers.
It was only 7 Bph even pre-Covid levels, (4 x Diamond, 3 x NXWM), even then they weren't busy enough this end to warrant that frequency.
As a regular user throughout the Covid-19 pandemic I value the excellent frequent service operated on the 4H by NXWM & Diamond Bus where social distancing can be fully undertaken and exercised in the current climate. I would assume patronage will increase when Halesowen Leisure Centre, Halesowen College, Earls High & Windsor schools reopen in due course
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on July 16, 2020, 11:57:46 AM
The WMCA were unable to reach an agreement with the operators for West Midlands Bus to be introduced on the 4/4H/4M at the time due to the complexity of the service and the fact both operators do not operate on all sections of the route(s) however with the new legislation in place there may be scope for an Quality Enhanced Partnership at a later date however the emphasis at present are the QEP consultations currently being undertaken.
I for one am against a joint operation
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 03:47:28 PM
I for one am against a joint operation
Just out of curiosity, why are you against?
Quote from: l.murphy123 on July 16, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
Just out of curiosity, why are you against?
Diamond have a good history for quicker journey times, and if I'm honest clientele of nx buses is disgusting
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 04:12:06 PM
Diamond have a good history for quicker journey times, and if I'm honest clientele of nx buses is disgusting
Just check the timetable. The journey times are almost identical, unless you are accusing Diamond drivers of running early
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 04:23:59 PM
Just check the timetable. The journey times are almost identical, unless you are accusing Diamond drivers of running early
The journey times are identical but there is less dwell time at the stops on Diamond Bus 4H between Blackheath & Oldbury compered with NXWM
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 04:23:59 PM
Just check the timetable. The journey times are almost identical, unless you are accusing Diamond drivers of running early
Yh and nx are always late because of it
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 04:55:17 PM
Yh and nx are always late because of it
You do post some crap.
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 05:06:24 PM
You do post some crap.
There must be something in the water here in Halesowen on the 4H bearing in mind my useless comments too............................
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 05:06:24 PM
You do post some crap.
I used the service regularly prior to lockdown 4H usually 5-10 minutes late by the time it got to Hayley green.
And NX clientele are disgusting on the 4 corridor
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
And NX clientele are disgusting on the 4 corridor
What do you mean by that?
Quote from: 2206 on July 16, 2020, 06:16:01 PM
What do you mean by that?
Playing loud music, chav central, then you got the mothers with kids she can't control. It's like a zoo
I also use the 4 corridor, although not as regularly as others. Usually once or twice a month. I find that the journeys I use on NX, there is indeed more stand time, often sitting in Blackheath for 3-4 minutes whereas there's next to none with Diamond.
I also find that the NX journeys are much busier than Diamonds with almost every seat taken. Usually a standing load between West Brom and Oldbury. I can easily have a row of seats to myself on a Diamond journey.
Diamond's clientele are mostly pass users.
I personally would support a partnership on this route. I can't see how it would be complicated either.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 06:24:27 PM
Playing loud music, chav central, then you got the mothers with kids she can't control. It's like a zoo
Well as they are on your bus service I presume they are the people you live with, as I cannot believe may people make 'pleasure journies' to Hayley Green
Nearly all bus routes esp main corridors have the issues with anti social behaviour. NX carry a higher volume of passengers so you are bound to encounter more annoying passengers and as their daysavers are easier to get away with using once expired the more chavvy elements are going to be trying their luck on a NX bus thus increasing the chances of being exposed to (for the lack of a better description) more dickheads. You can't blame the drivers or the company really it is just the sad society we currently live in.
Both companies timetable their services to take 64 minutes from Walsall to Hayley Green at the moment.
The breakdown of the timetables is
Walsall - West Bromwich NXWM 25min + 3 min in West Bromwhich; Diamond 25min + 2 min in West Bromwich
West Bromwich - Halesowen NXWM 29min; Diamond 28 min
Halesowen-Hayley Green NXWM 7 min; Diamond 9min
Today only one NXWM bus (4365 at 13:41 at Hayley Green 8 minutes late) was outside the guidance of no more than 1 min early, 5 min late and even that bus arrived back in Walsall only 1 minute late.
So I would imagine there was absolutely no difference in speed between the two companys
Quote from: Pat on July 16, 2020, 06:26:46 PM
I also use the 4 corridor, although not as regularly as others. Usually once or twice a month. I find that the journeys I use on NX, there is indeed more stand time, often sitting in Blackheath for 3-4 minutes whereas there's next to none with Diamond.
I also find that the NX journeys are much busier than Diamonds with almost every seat taken. Usually a standing load between West Brom and Oldbury. I can easily have a row of seats to myself on a Diamond journey.
Diamond's clientele are mostly pass users.
I personally would support a partnership on this route. I can't see how it would be complicated either.
Well
@Pat the major complication that could not be overcome is the two companies operate completely different routes for a start on the 4M & 4H we have yet to find a way to overcome this
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Both companies timetable their services to take 64 minutes from Walsall to Hayley Green at the moment.
The breakdown of the timetables is
Walsall - West Bromwich NXWM 25min + 3 min in West Bromwhich; Diamond 25min + 2 min in West Bromwich
West Bromwich - Halesowen NXWM 29min; Diamond 28 min
Halesowen-Hayley Green NXWM 7 min; Diamond 9min
Today only one NXWM bus (4365 at 13:41 at Hayley Green 8 minutes late) was outside the guidance of no more than 1 min early, 5 min late and even that bus arrived back in Walsall only 1 minute late.
So I would imagine there was absolutely no difference in speed between the two companys
There is a major difference
@Tony between the two companies from my experience Diamond appear to arrive into Halesowen & Oldbury early before departing at the timetable time if you used the 4H as regularly as I do you would be well aware that Diamond carry more passengers between Hayley Green & Blackheath due to its much lower fares as NXWM runs so much less frequently while NXWM carry more passengers between Blackheath & West Bromwich between West Bromwich & Walsall about even perhaps NXWM carry more but on a higher frequency while between Blackheath & Merry Hill NXWM clearly has the majority of passengers on the 4M!
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 06:24:27 PM
Playing loud music, chav central, then you got the mothers with kids she can't control. It's like a zoo
@Trident 4194 is quite correct I have never been either physically or verbally abused on a Diamond Bus 4H compered with the patronage you have to endure on some of NXWM journeys on the 4H
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on July 16, 2020, 07:03:24 PM
@Trident 4194 is quite correct I have never been either physically or verbally abused on a Diamond Bus 4H compered with the patronage you have to endure on some of NXWM journeys on the 4H
I understand that some buses carry some undesirable passengers - drug addicts, fare dodgers, etc.
But I would of thought that unless you are intentionally getting into arguments with people your chances as a passenger of being physically or verbally abused are quite slim.
Quote from: 2206 on July 16, 2020, 07:06:19 PM
I understand that some buses carry some undesirable passengers - drug addicts, fare dodgers, etc.
But I would of thought that unless you are intentionally getting into arguments with people your chances as a passenger of being physically or verbally abused are quite slim.
I've certainly never had any physical or verbal abuse on the 11, 55, or 94.
You obviously never travel on a NXWM 4H
@2206 I ask you in all my time on the forum how could you ever suggest I am intentionally getting into arguments with others..........
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Both companies timetable their services to take 64 minutes from Walsall to Hayley Green at the moment.
The breakdown of the timetables is
Walsall - West Bromwich NXWM 25min + 3 min in West Bromwhich; Diamond 25min + 2 min in West Bromwich
West Bromwich - Halesowen NXWM 29min; Diamond 28 min
Halesowen-Hayley Green NXWM 7 min; Diamond 9min
Today only one NXWM bus (4365 at 13:41 at Hayley Green 8 minutes late) was outside the guidance of no more than 1 min early, 5 min late and even that bus arrived back in Walsall only 1 minute late.
So I would imagine there was absolutely no difference in speed between the two companys
Can we look at pre lockdown timetables please.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 07:21:36 PM
Can we look at pre lockdown timetables please.
No, because they are no longer on line to check, but you said exactly the same thing before, and when checked the timetables were the same again. As Mr Jones has stated the only reason Diamond seem quicker is picking less passengers up between some points the will arrive Blackheath and Oldbury early and wait time, but if you are passing through those places it is of no advantage whatsoever
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on July 16, 2020, 07:09:45 PM
You obviously never travel on a NXWM 4H @2206 I ask you in all my time on the forum how could you ever suggest I am intentionally getting into arguments with others..........
No I didin't mean that you were, what I meant was in my own experience and I don't use the 4H, but on the 14, 55, 94, 11, etc, the chances of that happening seem slim and I generally find bus travel fairly safe.
I can think of a few things personally such as a few years back when a man came running down the stairs of the top deck saying some youth had been threatening him with a knife, but from what i've found its quite rare on the services I use..
I thinks its very shocking that this is happening regularly on the 4H to be honest.
Quote from: 2206 on July 16, 2020, 07:26:13 PM
No I didin't mean that you were, what I meant was from what I've seen and I don't use the 4H, but on the 14, 55, 94, 11, etc, that chances of that happening seem slim and I generally find bus travel fairly safe. And in recent years I can't say i've witnessed this regularly.
I can think of a few things personally such as a few years back when a man came running down the stairs of the top deck saying some youth had been threatening him, but from what i've found its quite rare on the services I use..
I find it quite shocking that this is happening regularly on the 4H to be honest.
To be fair until earlier this year I used the 55 & 94 regularly to Boultbee Business Units in Nechells for over a decade the same with the 8A/C & 11A/C and never had a problem at all
@2206 .
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 06:24:27 PM
Playing loud music, chav central, then you got the mothers with kids she can't control. It's like a zoo
That argument isn't specific to just the 4 services. You get that with almost every bus service.
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 07:25:02 PM
No, because they are no longer on line to check, but you said exactly the same thing before, and when checked the timetables were the same again. As Mr Jones has stated the only reason Diamond seem quicker is picking less passengers up between some points the will arrive Blackheath and Oldbury early and wait time, but if you are passing through those places it is of no advantage whatsoever
Ok pre lockdown timetable for diamond was..
Walsall- West Brom 25 minutes + 3 min wait at West Brom. They would often arrive from Walsall to West Brom in 23 minutes.
Then it was 10 minutes between West Brom and Oldbury. Very reasonable often waited a few minutes again here it departed West Brom on time.
Oldbury- blackheath 12 minutes. Pretty good catering in the traffic all the way up to blackheath.
13 minutes blackheath- Halesowen - would often do in 7-8 minutes leaving time for drivers to have a cigarette in Halesowen.
Halesowen- Hayley green 8 minutes- quite tight tbf.
And nx seemed to always arrive late at blackheath, late into Halesowen and late into Hayley green pre lockdown
Quote from: Trident 4194 on July 16, 2020, 08:30:00 PM
Pretty good catering in the traffic all the way up to blackheath.
I didn't realise Diamond were operating burger vans
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 16, 2020, 08:13:34 PM
That argument isn't specific to just the 4 services. You get that with almost every bus service.
From my own personal experience before March using The West Midlands Bus Network daily on NXWM & Diamond Bus I only ever experienced unsocial behaviour on the NXWM 4H & a Platinum service which perhaps is better forgotten now.
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 08:32:55 PM
I didn't realise Diamond were operating burger vans
Do they not work in conjunction with Deliveroo or am I mixing them up with someone else perhaps I am mistaken about what I see on the 4H again with Diamond Buses delivery service not sure about Vegans
@Tony mind you like Vince Pinner I too have never missed an episode of Star Trek!
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on July 16, 2020, 08:33:25 PM
From my own personal experience before March using The West Midlands Bus Network daily on NXWM & Diamond Bus I only ever experienced unsocial behaviour on the NXWM 4H & a Platinum service which perhaps is better forgotten now.
Have you been all over Birmingham and the West Midlands? I doubt it based on your comments. You remind a lot of that Richard Jones dude. Could even be him just under a different alias.
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 16, 2020, 09:23:19 PM
Have you been all over Birmingham and the West Midlands? I doubt it based on your comments. You remind a lot of that Richard Jones dude. Could even be him just under a different alias.
I doubt thats a compliment
@Busboy105 but thats best laid to rest in another life however before March aside from the hard working employees of the bus companies I doubt anyone else on this forum came close to me in clocking up actual mileage on The West Midlands Bus Network daily & due to somewhat unfortunate circumstances for what were not just essential journeys but life saving journeys I continued to use The West Midlands Bus Network throughout the Covid-19 lockdown I am not sure what proof you would require but the one thing I can assure you of I never intentionally posted anything other that what I believe to be the truth on this brilliant forum & am always happy to be corrected when I am wrong.
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on July 16, 2020, 09:42:58 PM
I doubt thats a compliment @Busboy105 but thats best laid to rest in another life however before March aside from the hard working employees of the bus companies I doubt anyone else on this forum came close to me in clocking up actual mileage on The West Midlands Bus Network daily & due to somewhat unfortunate circumstances for what were not just essential journeys but life saving journeys I continued to use The West Midlands Bus Network throughout the Covid-19 lockdown I am not sure what proof you would require but the one thing I can assure you of I never intentionally posted anything other that what I believe to be the truth on this brilliant forum & am always happy to be corrected when I am wrong.
Ok. All I'm saying is that the 4 services aren't the only services to have anti-social problems. There's plenty of services that have this issue.
Quote from: Busboy105 on July 16, 2020, 10:04:21 PM
Ok. All I'm saying is that the 4 services aren't the only services to have anti-social problems. There's plenty of services that have this issue.
Fully agree
@Busboy105 & don't start me on how it can all kick off on the Diamond Bus 192 lets face it Blakedown isnt twinned with Husum an area that was one of the biggest supporters of the erstwhile National Socialist German Workers' Party for the fun of it.
Quote from: Tony on July 16, 2020, 08:32:55 PM
I didn't realise Diamond were operating burger vans
A food trolley perhaps on those posh new electric buses? ;)
Back to my earlier point I think when Diamond ran the number 4 in addition to 4H a partnership could have been good. Wouldn't work now they only run one of the three '4' routes I don't suppose.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on July 17, 2020, 12:23:41 AM
A food trolley perhaps on those posh new electric buses? ;)
Back to my earlier point I think when Diamond ran the number 4 in addition to 4H a partnership could have been good. Wouldn't work now they only run one of the three '4' routes I don't suppose.
NXWM 4 runs Blackheath to Walsall the Diamond 4 ran only between West Bromwich to Walsall how could this ever run as a partnership route there wouldn't be much of a partnership between Blackheath & West Bromwich on the 4
@l.murphy123 whilst the NXWM 4H originally only ran Walsall to Halesowen with the much more frequent Diamond Bus running Walsall to Hayley Green on a different route entirely between Blackheath & Hayley Green your idea of a partnership on the 4 & 4H would be somewhat confusing to passengers! The idea behind West Midlands Bus is too simplify matters not make it even more complicated.
I wonder how long the 4H can sustain the amount of buses running along the corridor.
I was in Blackheath during the week and saw several NXWM and Diamond 4H buses arrive heading towards Walsall carrying fresh air.
I can't see that the Blackheath to Hayley Green section requires the 9 buses per hour.
Quote from: sonic84 on August 26, 2020, 08:25:29 PM
I wonder how long the 4H can sustain the amount of buses running along the corridor.
I was in Blackheath during the week and saw several NXWM and Diamond 4H buses arrive heading towards Walsall carrying fresh air.
I can't see that the Blackheath to Hayley Green section requires the 9 buses per hour.
I don't understand why they don't revert to the 15 min frequency before. Or keep the 10 min frequency but have every other one terminating at blackheath
Think it's to do with social distance keep.2m apart if you can
Quote from: sonic84 on August 26, 2020, 08:25:29 PM
I can't see that the Blackheath to Hayley Green section requires the 9 buses per hour.
It doesn't, totally OTT.
I have driven the 4H, weekdays, Saturdays and on a Sunday at Diamond. There is an awful lot of time on the route, but when there are roadworks this is a huge advantage. I much prefer to sit in Oldbury/Halesowen etc for a few minutes knowing ill be leaving on time.
why are the full 4 and 4M's on their systems?