I have heard a rumour that ARRIVA could be making an offer for midland anybody know if this is true
Havent heard that rumour tho there was a rumour in the past that they were looking at Hansons in the past and we all know what bus industry rumours are like!!
Midland, Black Diamond, Bakers, Hansons ......
It seems either Arriva are very active at the moment or anybody that wants to start a rumour looks at the big groups and starts with the firdst alphabetically!
Haha thats so true tony-we all like excitement!! Yeah tho it is a true point that arriva seem to be more interested than ever in their midlands business. Lets wait and see
Quote from: Ck on July 27, 2012, 07:27:29 PM
I have heard a rumour that ARRIVA could be making an offer for midland anybody know if this is true
>YAWN< Has joker James been flapping his jaw again?
interesting to see what happens rumour was rife with diamond and arriva but time will tell
Quote from: Tony on July 27, 2012, 07:34:34 PM
Midland, Black Diamond, Bakers, Hansons ......
It seems either Arriva are very active at the moment or anybody that wants to start a rumour looks at the big groups and starts with the firdst alphabetically!
I notice in this week's Route One that Arriva Midlands MD Bob Hind is retiring from 31st July and being replaced by a former NX man Alex Perry, although Alex finished NX as Ops director in the coaches division, would I be right in saying that he held a senior management position at TWM/NXWM at some stage of his NX career?
Quote from: Winston on July 27, 2012, 08:22:31 PM
Quote from: Tony on July 27, 2012, 07:34:34 PM
Midland, Black Diamond, Bakers, Hansons ......
It seems either Arriva are very active at the moment or anybody that wants to start a rumour looks at the big groups and starts with the firdst alphabetically!
I notice in this week's Route One that Arriva Midlands MD Bob Hind is retiring from 31st July and being replaced by a former NX man Alex Perry, although Alex finished NX as Ops director in the coaches division, would I be right in saying that he held a senior management position at TWM/NXWM at some stage of his NX career?
yea he has had a few titles
Surely, the only way Arriva would get their hands on Diamond Bus is by making a takeover approach for the whole of Rotala Plc. It's doubtful that Rotala would be prepared to sell just the Diamond Bus operation unless it's seriously underperforming......
Quote from: richie on July 27, 2012, 08:22:08 PM
interesting to see what happens rumour was rife with diamond and arriva but time will tell
I doubt they would sell diamond unless it was to raise money for buying another company maybe even in the north west-possibly in First's disposals. A clever move now would be for rotala to register first's entire redditch network to gain dominance there
Quote from: Peter123 on July 27, 2012, 08:30:21 PM
I doubt they would sell diamond unless it was to raise money for buying another company maybe even in the north west-possibly in First's disposals. A clever move now would be for rotala to register first's entire redditch network to gain dominance there
Don't Red Diamond already compete on the majority of First's Redditch routes as it is, I doubt First will close down any more operations than part of Scotland East & North Devon. It defeats the object of trying to raise funds to pay off debt through disposals
I imagine first may have to close down more operations in the future if no one wants them and they are loss making and there is a major competitor eg stagecoach in northampton then theyll have to close these operations
dont think Arriva would want anything at the moment they just probberly want to concentrate on the subsided stuff first to see how it goes and if people in other parts of the west mids like arriva diamond and midland are not doing that bad midland have made a sucess of some ex arriva routes in the midlands the 9 walsall-bentley is one 2 dedicated newish buses for a start
Been told Midland drivers have got a meeting tomorrow regarding a possible take over!.....
I could see Arriva potentially acquiring Midland, as their services & garage is based typically where Arriva's existing commercial services operate in to the West Midlands i.e. Walsall & Wolverhampton
They only way Arriva would get their hands on Diamond Bus, is if the made an offer for the entire Rotala Plc, it's unlikely that Rotala would be prepared to sell just its WM operation to Arriva
Which "Midland" are we talking about- Midland, Midland Bus Company or Midland Classic?
sconehead85
Quote from: sconehead85 on August 08, 2012, 11:49:27 PM
Which "Midland" are we talking about- Midland, Midland Bus Company or Midland Classic?
sconehead85
'Midland'
Owned by D&G
I thought rotala might have tried to purchase midland and expand the bus operations under black and blue diamond depending on location
Quote from: Ash on August 09, 2012, 12:40:36 AM
I thought rotala might have tried to purchase midland and expand the bus operations under black and blue diamond depending on location
I get the impression that Rotala are skint as of late, what with the acquisition of Preston Bus operations.
The "red" Midland company. I see no reason why Rotala cannot be sold to Arriva, it would make Arriva bigger in the Midlands, Preston (close to Arriva North West) and Bristol. The coach fleet could come under TGM. Rotala is only a small player and the share price is low. The OFT need not be troubled as no monopoly situation would arise.
The Midland company , if acquired would add 33 Dennis Dart MPD/SLF, 17 Optare Solo, 3 Scania Omnicity, 2 VDL SB180, and 2 Dennis Trident (the only dds). There is an Optare Excel, but that might be sold.
sconehead85
QuoteThe Midland company , if acquired would add 33 Dennis Dart MPD/SLF, 17 Optare Solo, 3 Scania Omnicity, 2 VDL SB180, and 2 Dennis Trident (the only dds). There is an Optare Excel, but that might be sold.
To be fair though, apart form the 2 VDLs and 3 Scanias, the rest is tat and Arriva has enough of there own.
too true cannock the nearest garage has a load of crap execpt a few VDL and scanias why buy midland which would involve more dennis shite on the fleet
Depends upon what the vehicle requirement is. There is no immediate order in prospect to replace the Dart SLFs. Very soon however Arriva is going to have to place a HUGE order for 500 Dennis Dart replacements as there is a "bubble" of late 1990s SLF Darts.
Some of Wardles bangers are still with Arriva.
sconehead85
Quote from: sconehead85 on August 09, 2012, 04:24:34 PM
Depends upon what the vehicle requirement is. There is no immediate order in prospect to replace the Dart SLFs. Very soon however Arriva is going to have to place a HUGE order for 500 Dennis Dart replacements as there is a "bubble" of late 1990s SLF Darts.
Some of Wardles bangers are still with Arriva.
sconehead85
I'm 99% sure that won't be one single 500 bus order... The old Darts still have some life left in them yet.
Be interesting to see if this happens or not ;)
Probably the latter.
There is a drivers' meeting at one of the West Midlands operators at 7pm tonight where they are being told the company is being taken over by another. Official announcement will be made tomorrow
Yes I said this 2 weeks ago that I had heard a rumour that ARRIVA where taking over midland
I think we can safely say that the joint NXWM-Midland route will cease joint operation lol. I really hope that NX put up a fight to drive Arriva out.
Yea maybe NX will come back to Cannock lol
Quote from: Michael on August 09, 2012, 07:38:23 PM
I think we can safely say that the joint NXWM-Midland route will cease joint operation lol. I really hope that NX put up a fight to drive Arriva out.
Err why? well apart from the name of the one operator changing
Quote from: Tony on August 09, 2012, 08:11:12 PM
Quote from: Michael on August 09, 2012, 07:38:23 PM
I think we can safely say that the joint NXWM-Midland route will cease joint operation lol. I really hope that NX put up a fight to drive Arriva out.
Err why? well apart from the name of the one operator changing
Because Arriva appears to be more of an offensive operator, rather than defensive. By that I mean, the fact that they are taking a lot of Centro contracts at knockdown prices obviously suggests that they've got greater plans for the West Midlands commercially, so companies like Midland & Rotala won't do much for Arriva commercially. Now obviously they'll have to cross horns with NXWM, so if I was NXWM management, I wouldn't be happy with operating jointly with a company that's attacking me.
Quote from: Michael on August 09, 2012, 08:27:47 PM
Quote from: Tony on August 09, 2012, 08:11:12 PM
Quote from: Michael on August 09, 2012, 07:38:23 PM
I think we can safely say that the joint NXWM-Midland route will cease joint operation lol. I really hope that NX put up a fight to drive Arriva out.
Err why? well apart from the name of the one operator changing
Because Arriva appears to be more of an offensive operator, rather than defensive. By that I mean, the fact that they are taking a lot of Centro contracts at knockdown prices obviously suggests that they've got greater plans for the West Midlands commercially, so companies like Midland & Rotala won't do much for Arriva commercially. Now obviously they'll have to cross horns with NXWM, so if I was NXWM management, I wouldn't be happy with operating jointly with a company that's attacking me.
But the deal was negotiated by Centro, someone Arriva are unlikely to want to upset, and Arriva will want to generate goodwill with passengers when they move into an area and stopping a ticket popular with the locals is hardly likely to do that. On the other hand as neither Midland or Arriva have registered a directly competitive service against NXWM for a long time.
While Arriva are trying to establish themselves in the area they are unlikely start a bus war risking losing all the money they are handing over tomorrow by losing and getting left with a load of 5 year centro contracts that are difficult to get out of at a ridiculously low tender price losing even more money.
I expect Arriva to just use the Midland purchase as an 'economies of scale' operation for some time making the tenders they have won more economical by reducing the overheads allocated to each route.
The big question is which depot will close to acieve this, West Bromwich or Wednesfield? Some routes are obviously moving to Cannock depot, hence the increase in VA approved recently. The 62 & 23 which operate from Cannock Bus Station are an obvious two, but that is only 3 buses. Cannocks VA at 95 is currently 34 above the allocation of 61 so it looks like more may be moving in.
Was just thinking how Midland really need a repaint, will be interesting to see an entire fleet done in Arriva's new livery if they keep the fleet.
There is also the 15,81 and 810 which could run from cannock depot
Quote from: Badger on August 09, 2012, 08:59:11 PM
Was just thinking how Midland really need a repaint, will be interesting to see an entire fleet done in Arriva's new livery if they keep the fleet.
They might keep it separate to the traditional Arriva bus operations.
i wonder if theyd keep the 810, must be the least used bus route in Cannock! Yet years ago when it was the Green Bus 10 service it used to be run by full Leopards & Atlanteans/Conductor operated deckers!
Whenever I've tried to catch it the driver's said my n network pass is invalid (within WM to within WM). On top of that round Fordhouses at least it lacks solid stops, I'm sure many don't know it exists. Plus a really weird timetable.
tbf the timetable isnt very good anymore 4 trips a day it starts at 8 and is finshed by 330 i thought it was under contract
Quote from: bob on August 09, 2012, 07:57:29 PM
Yea maybe NX will come back to Cannock lol
And perhaps NX might also fancy a go in Telford, Tamworth and Lichfield too to show Arriva that they will put up a fight!
Quote from: D10 on August 09, 2012, 10:25:47 PM
Quote from: bob on August 09, 2012, 07:57:29 PM
Yea maybe NX will come back to Cannock lol
And perhaps NX might also fancy a go in Telford, Tamworth and Lichfield too to show Arriva that they will put up a fight!
Using the withdrawn B6LEs, it just gets better and better lol.
How would Network WM passes work if NX went to Telford or Cannock? I know they're valid on the 10/255/256/5/5A which all leave the West Midlands, but not as far out. Would it just be like any other operator (only valid in the WM area)?
Doubt NX would go Telford or Tamworth TBF but they used to have a substantial presence in Cannock, incl monopoly on Walsall routes plus the main operator on Pye Green road services
Yeah it would be like the other operators as NX Coventry's 12 service goes to Leamington Spa but a network pass is not valid all that distance
Quote from: bob on August 09, 2012, 10:33:49 PM
Doubt NX would go Telford or Tamworth TBF but they used to have a substantial presence in Cannock, incl monopoly on Walsall routes plus the main operator on Pye Green road services
Why not? Arriva have a monopoly in both Tamworth & Telford and it obviously quite a profitable area for them. Don't forget WMT setup the Your Bus operation in the Stevensons stronghold of Burton when they were expanding rapidly in the West Midlands. NX are plenty large enough to throw money at setting up an new operation in one of those towns to get back at Arriva, plus have a size able reserve fleet
Quote from: Badger on August 09, 2012, 10:30:20 PM
How would Network WM passes work if NX went to Telford or Cannock? I know they're valid on the 10/255/256/5/5A which all leave the West Midlands, but not as far out. Would it just be like any other operator (only valid in the WM area)?
Network WM passes are only valid in WM, despite where NXWM are operating.
Nxwm Daysaver will get you into Cannock tho
Quote from: bob on August 09, 2012, 11:23:44 PM
Nxwm Daysaver will get you into Cannock tho
NWM and NXWM isn't the same...
NXWM is a bus company. There own daysavers are valid on all there buses.
NWM is the local West Midlands PTE. All there passes are valid in the West Midlands.
Quote from: Winston on August 09, 2012, 11:03:27 PM
Quote from: bob on August 09, 2012, 10:33:49 PM
Doubt NX would go Telford or Tamworth TBF but they used to have a substantial presence in Cannock, incl monopoly on Walsall routes plus the main operator on Pye Green road services
Why not? Arriva have a monopoly in both Tamworth & Telford and it obviously quite a profitable area for them. Don't forget WMT setup the Your Bus operation in the Stevensons stronghold of Burton when they were expanding rapidly in the West Midlands. NX are plenty large enough to throw money at setting up an new operation in one of those towns to get back at Arriva, plus have a size able reserve fleet
I doubt NX will move into other areas but will focus more on the one they are in they have the monopoly and will continue to do so and im fairly confident in saying that any operator will not compete with NX to any worthy scale in birmingham thats their focus and where most money is for them.
Quote from: richie on August 10, 2012, 12:08:47 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 09, 2012, 11:03:27 PM
Quote from: bob on August 09, 2012, 10:33:49 PM
Doubt NX would go Telford or Tamworth TBF but they used to have a substantial presence in Cannock, incl monopoly on Walsall routes plus the main operator on Pye Green road services
Why not? Arriva have a monopoly in both Tamworth & Telford and it obviously quite a profitable area for them. Don't forget WMT setup the Your Bus operation in the Stevensons stronghold of Burton when they were expanding rapidly in the West Midlands. NX are plenty large enough to throw money at setting up an new operation in one of those towns to get back at Arriva, plus have a size able reserve fleet
I doubt NX will move into other areas but will focus more on the one they are in they have the monopoly and will continue to do so and im fairly confident in saying that any operator will not compete with NX to any worthy scale in birmingham thats their focus and where most money is for them.
Seconded. NX would respond vigorously on their own turf if Arriva got nasty but to be honest I don't think it would come to that. There is plenty of room in the West Midlands for 2 large operators, it's a miracle that this has never been the case til now. I think Arriva are just looking for a small market share that NX won't really respond to, don't forget there will be a lot more Centro developments over the next couple of years and NX wouldn't be in a position to take everything anyway.
I wish another serious contender would enter Birmingham. ;D
True but i still think they could enter the Walsall-Cannock corridor ( the direct route not the number 2) as its quite lucrative)
Here is the official press release
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/arriva-aquire-midland.aspx
Quote from: Tony on August 10, 2012, 11:19:50 AM
Here is the official press release
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/arriva-aquire-midland.aspx
Tony,
I'm surprised Arriva haven't acquired the whole of the D&G group, do you have an idea whether it will be Wednesfield or West Bromwich garage that will close? I'm assuming the former is more likely with the VA increase at Cannock etc
Interesting development!
I must admit the only current Midland route I am familiar with is the 200/201 Oldbury-Bearwood circular, so it will be strange seeing Arriva buses in Warley!
Quote from: Stu on August 10, 2012, 11:32:02 AM
Interesting development!
I must admit the only current Midland route I am familiar with is the 200/201 Oldbury-Bearwood circular, so it will be strange seeing Arriva buses in Warley!
At least the acquisition of Midland will finally provide Arriva with Centro Tenders at realistic prices. It will be interesting to see if the latest batch they are reported to have won are also for a 5 yr term
Just spoke with my friend at Midland, after a staff meeting he can condirm Arriva HAVE brought the company!!
Just been confirmed Arriva have bought Midland. My friend was told yesterday during a staff meeting.
http://arrivabus.co.uk/arriva-aquire-midland.aspx. News from Arriva website...
http://arrivabus.co.uk/arriva-aquire-midland.aspx news from Arriva website
It will be interesting to see if after this deal both Hill Top & Wednesfield remain open. There's a few routes with questionable arrangements as well, for instance the 33 is currently operated by Arriva & Midland, and the 10 in Wolverhampton works in co-operation with the NXWM service. I can't imagine that lasting!
I'd imagine some routes may change garages as well, for instance several of Midland's Cannock routes would surely move across to Cannock, perhaps in exchange for some Walsall or Wolverhampton Cannock garage routes.
I reckon Midlands depot will close and all routes will move to Cannock and Hill top.
Looking forward to seeing the Evolutions in Arriva livery - I bet they'd look really smart.
I stand corrected. :o
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 10, 2012, 02:29:16 PM
Will the east lancs tridents stay. i presume they will because midland only brought them from Nottingham city transport this year. Will arriva still operate all the routes Midland Operates or will some routes get withdrawn or transfered to different companys. Will they still operate the Number 18 Wolverhampton-Lyndale and 57 wolverhampton-Bilston.
Slow down a bit matey, the deal won't even be complete until late September, but if you'd read the link, it does state the following...
QuoteArriva Midlands plans to incorporate the fleet of 61 Midland buses into its fleet and plans to operate them under the Arriva brand.
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 10, 2012, 03:07:27 PM
Sorry it's just you said in another post that apart from the VDLs and Omnicitys the rest is tat. The tridents and Omniciys will look strange i arriva livery.
The scanias will probably look very similar to the scanias already in the Arriva Midlands fleet
Will be sorry to see Midland go, hope this is,not the start of arriva taking over all the independants in the area, I hate the arriva livery it must be one of the most boring liveries ever. Funny how some of the services they are taking over chase used to operate like the 9 Walsall-lodge farm, and look how long that operated once arriva took over it, the only routes arriva operate now that were ex chase are the 1 Walsall-Cannock & the 560 Wolverhampton-Bloxwich which when ever I have seen it carries more fresh air than passengers.
Will have to see what happens in the following months, was wondering what arriva where up to taking on all that tendered work now we now.
A lot of staff will be pissed off they left Arriva or sacked and now they are under the control of the old bosses see a lot of people leaving the first thing they will do is re sack by dubious means there ex drivers or like the chase drivers find a way to sack them they did at cannock I know they accused a mate of mine for theft as apparantly a spy said he pressed a wrong fare even though the day in question his takings were perfect and the past weeks from when he was TUPE god help Midland staff (diamond want drivers though) on the bus hand as Midland do compete with NXWM it will now be WAR and Arriva will lose like before
just to add arriva did apply as tony found out for an extention of buses kept at cannock to 95 so looks some services may go there
Quote from: Badger on August 09, 2012, 10:30:20 PM
How would Network WM passes work if NX went to Telford or Cannock? I know they're valid on the 10/255/256/5/5A which all leave the West Midlands, but not as far out. Would it just be like any other operator (only valid in the WM area)?
They would not simple you answered your own question wm area only with regards to the 255/6 etc it was where the old wmpte worked tony mentioned this in the n bus extention post
Quote from: Winston on August 10, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
Quote from: Tony on August 10, 2012, 11:19:50 AM
Here is the official press release
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/arriva-aquire-midland.aspx
Tony,
I'm surprised Arriva haven't acquired the whole of the D&G group, do you have an idea whether it will be Wednesfield or West Bromwich garage that will close? I'm assuming the former is more likely with the VA increase at Cannock etc
I agree with you comment but as D&G are compettion in crewe where Arriva are the main operator would the OFT busy bodies have something to say about it they have about other operators being took over by larger ones and disposals look at firsts problems
Perhaps that may be due to Shrewsbury flower show buses are being kept at Cannock depot.
Quote from: woody38 on August 10, 2012, 03:19:45 PM
Will be sorry to see Midland go, hope this is,not the start of arriva taking over all the independants in the area, I hate the arriva livery it must be one of the most boring liveries ever. Funny how some of the services they are taking over chase used to operate like the 9 Walsall-lodge farm, and look how long that operated once arriva took over it, the only routes arriva operate now that were ex chase are the 1 Walsall-Cannock & the 560 Wolverhampton-Bloxwich which when ever I have seen it carries more fresh air than passengers.
Will have to see what happens in the following months, was wondering what arriva where up to taking on all that tendered work now we now.
Sad to see them go as well - hoping though all routes will still run however
The arriva livery is quite boring yes
It's sad news that ;(
Good planning on Arrivas part, win all their contracts from them and basically offer them a bail out!
Why is it sad News?
Quote from: dayvid on August 10, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
Why is it sad News?
Decent company and who knows I dont tend to like arrivas buses some of them sound like they need a service lol
Hoping things stays same ie midlands fares for example
Some cracking conspiracy theories here! I fear many of you will be disappointed. It was puzzling to see Arriva pay good money for Chase only to dispose of much of its West Midlands operations, I can't see them repeating that trick now that they have commenced tendered operations of their own in the area. They were also probably quite keen to rid themselves of any potential costly future competition in Staffs as Midland were starting to put a handy little network together.
A little like Wardles, I think you will find that they will take quite a while to implement any serious changes and will just add to their tendered work, probably at slightly more realistic prices and under the Arriva name, which is already familiar to most people in the Walsall and Wolverhampton areas.
It did occur to me Dave that many of the staff must be ex Arriva but not all of them would have been sacked! They may have just gone there because of better shifts or other reasons. The main reason staff end up leaving in these takeover situations is because they can't keep hold of their cushy numbers...the same happened when Arriva acquired Frontline in Lichfield, many of the staff were ex MRN or Stevo's and moved on because they couldn't have their 55 hours a week over 5 days!! That said I am sure there are always a couple of tricky cases for both sides.
I must say I find it shocking so many people hate the Arriva livery now. I think it's smart and well applied, and that the buses look great in it. Granted, the original one wasn't up to much. It will be interesting to see how many of the Midland kit Arriva deem worthy of retaining and repainting.
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 10, 2012, 03:07:27 PM
Sorry it's just you said in another post that apart from the VDLs and Omnicitys the rest is tat. The tridents and Omniciys will look strange in arriva livery.
They have OmniCitys already, as said...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adogriff/4855080858/
But yeah, I stand by my previous statement, second hand Darts and Solos are tat...
Quote from: andyc225 on August 10, 2012, 01:10:15 PM
Looking forward to seeing the Evolutions in Arriva livery - I bet they'd look really smart.
From what I have been told today I think you will be disappointed
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 10, 2012, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Tony on August 10, 2012, 06:22:29 PM
Quote from: andyc225 on August 10, 2012, 01:10:15 PM
Looking forward to seeing the Evolutions in Arriva livery - I bet they'd look really smart.
From what I have been told today I think you will be disappointed
What do you mean by that.
I'm guessing Arriva might be selling them on, not keeping them.
Quote from: John-s-91 on August 10, 2012, 06:45:40 PM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 10, 2012, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Tony on August 10, 2012, 06:22:29 PM
Quote from: andyc225 on August 10, 2012, 01:10:15 PM
Looking forward to seeing the Evolutions in Arriva livery - I bet they'd look really smart.
From what I have been told today I think you will be disappointed
What do you mean by that.
I'm guessing Arriva might be selling them on, not keeping them.
I don't think they will be passing into Arriva ownership and they will move North to somewhere still owned by D&G. Arriva will just be left with the Darts and Solos (and maybe the tridents) passing to Arriva
It is a shame.
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 10, 2012, 08:10:09 PM
They probably will keep the tridents as they operate on route 10.
Will arriva keep Wednesfield depot. If so will existing Midland routes all operate from there or will some that operate in areas of cannock and shropshire tranfer to closer garages. If they do keep wednesfield depot will existing tendered routes in wolverhampton still operate from hilltop.
Why wouldn't arriva get the VDL's. they could still be used on the number 9.
The VDLs operate on the route 9 but they aren't passing to Arriva, so it doesn't mean the tridents will stay just because they are on the 10!
I haven't been told anything about the depot.
Presumably because when the deal was signed between D&G and Arriva a list of assets included in the sale would have been compiled and the owners of D&G decided the price Arriva were paying wasn't enough to include the more valuable buses.
I will ask the question of what exactly is included in the sale, but I don't know if I will get an answer. It seems one side or both are reluctant to disclose details as the price paid is not being disclosed
I doubt very much if Arriva would keep Midlands depot due to the extra costs running it. They will more than likely transfer routes to appropriate depots. They won't want another depot with all the facilities when there trying to close depots down and replace them with out posts.
Maybe it is apt that next year sees the 40th anniversary of the takeover by the West Midlands PTE of Midland Red local services, and by then many of the services will be run again by one of the successors to the BMMO following this takeover and the Tender gains!
Shame they can't put the buses in Wardle red livery to keep alive the memories of both Midland and Midland Red.
Any news on which routes they've actually won? Last I heard the results were to be published by today at the latest. No sign of them though.
if their long term stratergy is to expand then it would make sense to keep the midland depot
I work from the transport yard next door for BOC not K transport spoke to a driver who was at the meeting was told wednesfield was staying open as they are on a 5 year lease (no get out) at wednesfield. Hill top only has a 1 year one
Quote from: vinh1000 on August 10, 2012, 05:11:27 PM
Quote from: dayvid on August 10, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
Why is it sad News?
Decent company and who knows I dont tend to like arrivas buses some of them sound like they need a service lol
Hoping things stays same ie midlands fares for example
Fares are regulated in the midlands so the usual £1.90 fare like everyone else will stay maybe Arriva will introduce a West Midlands area ticket like some of the existing ones they do now they have a larger set of services in the West Midlands
Quote from: andy on August 10, 2012, 05:40:33 PM
Some cracking conspiracy theories here! I fear many of you will be disappointed. It was puzzling to see Arriva pay good money for Chase only to dispose of much of its West Midlands operations, I can't see them repeating that trick now that they have commenced tendered operations of their own in the area. They were also probably quite keen to rid themselves of any potential costly future competition in Staffs as Midland were starting to put a handy little network together.
A little like Wardles, I think you will find that they will take quite a while to implement any serious changes and will just add to their tendered work, probably at slightly more realistic prices and under the Arriva name, which is already familiar to most people in the Walsall and Wolverhampton areas.
It did occur to me Dave that many of the staff must be ex Arriva but not all of them would have been sacked! They may have just gone there because of better shifts or other reasons. The main reason staff end up leaving in these takeover situations is because they can't keep hold of their cushy numbers...the same happened when Arriva acquired Frontline in Lichfield, many of the staff were ex MRN or Stevo's and moved on because they couldn't have their 55 hours a week over 5 days!! That said I am sure there are always a couple of tricky cases for both sides.
I must say I find it shocking so many people hate the Arriva livery now. I think it's smart and well applied, and that the buses look great in it. Granted, the original one wasn't up to much. It will be interesting to see how many of the Midland kit Arriva deem worthy of retaining and repainting.
Yes there are many reasons for leaving conditions are one I agree but the drivers I know whom are there were as I said in my previous post hounded out by dubious means and with regards to the chase takeover yes a lot of money wasted to rid a competetor agree the same mistake will not be made as they not have a good tendered foothold this time the only problem is the fleet NXWM have a lot of good new buses and I am afraid midland have a lot of tat darts and optares Arriva cannot run a good operation with old darts like Cannock in the West Midlands the ones at hill top are nice and smart a few more of them and a few nicer ones not so new for routes like the 10 possibily one of the best performers the only real keepers at Midland are the scanias and the deckers seems the VDL buses are going according to posts
the midland tat will fit right in with arriva some of there shit darts will probably get transferred to cannock to give the fleet there an upgrade lol! the drivers are sayin the X31 is going on 1st Sseptember yet theres a meeting with centro & staffs cc next week and no notices on the bus saying its finishing in 3 weeks what an awful way to run a bus service! it was packed on the half 10 one into brum today!
Quote from: Discodave on August 11, 2012, 12:27:45 PM
Quote from: vinh1000 on August 10, 2012, 05:11:27 PM
Quote from: dayvid on August 10, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
Why is it sad News?
Decent company and who knows I dont tend to like arrivas buses some of them sound like they need a service lol
Hoping things stays same ie midlands fares for example
Fares are regulated in the midlands so the usual £1.90 fare like everyone else will stay maybe Arriva will introduce a West Midlands area ticket like some of the existing ones they do now they have a larger set of services in the West Midlands
Was referring to their savers as they have cross boundary day savers ;) probably Arriva Midlands Savers Area is the equivilant
Mmmm, interesting months/years ahead regarding bus travel in Wolvo. :)
This could have been mentioned already but why was midland sold was it due to debt or the fact the group needed to put heavy investment into the fleet as their vehicles are aging.
Quote from: Ash on August 12, 2012, 07:07:54 PM
This could have been mentioned already but why was midland sold was it due to debt or the fact the group needed to put heavy investment into the fleet as their vehicles are aging.
Or Arriva may have given them a large cheque for cash.
Quote from: Michael on August 12, 2012, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: Ash on August 12, 2012, 07:07:54 PM
This could have been mentioned already but why was midland sold was it due to debt or the fact the group needed to put heavy investment into the fleet as their vehicles are aging.
Or Arriva may have given them a large cheque for cash.
I would imagine you are correct. Basically Arriva have made an offer to the owners of D&G which is more than they valued keeping the operation so accepted golden shilling on offer.
Quote from: Tony on August 12, 2012, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: Michael on August 12, 2012, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: Ash on August 12, 2012, 07:07:54 PM
This could have been mentioned already but why was midland sold was it due to debt or the fact the group needed to put heavy investment into the fleet as their vehicles are aging.
Or Arriva may have given them a large cheque for cash.
I would imagine you are correct. Basically Arriva have made an offer to the owners of D&G which is more than they valued keeping the operation so accepted golden shilling on offer.
Ok thanks for the answers and peoples views, I just thought it might have been like diamond when they were owned by go-ahead as they were sold to rotala for hardly anything because of the debts they carried and had to take on.
Quote from: Tony on August 12, 2012, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: Michael on August 12, 2012, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: Ash on August 12, 2012, 07:07:54 PM
This could have been mentioned already but why was midland sold was it due to debt or the fact the group needed to put heavy investment into the fleet as their vehicles are aging.
Or Arriva may have given them a large cheque for cash.
I would imagine you are correct. Basically Arriva have made an offer to the owners of D&G which is more than they valued keeping the operation so accepted golden shilling on offer.
I wonder if they have or will approach Diamond in the same way.
Quote from: Michael on August 12, 2012, 08:04:26 PM
Quote from: Tony on August 12, 2012, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: Michael on August 12, 2012, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: Ash on August 12, 2012, 07:07:54 PM
This could have been mentioned already but why was midland sold was it due to debt or the fact the group needed to put heavy investment into the fleet as their vehicles are aging.
Or Arriva may have given them a large cheque for cash.
I would imagine you are correct. Basically Arriva have made an offer to the owners of D&G which is more than they valued keeping the operation so accepted golden shilling on offer.
I wonder if they have or will approach Diamond in the same way.
It wouldnt suprise me if they did Michael but if Rotala are making a profit and finding it worth there while im sure it would take a large amount to make them sell. I think if Arriva are serious and looking to take a serious proportion of the bus market in the west midlands for me its a move they should think of or need to make and would give serious competiton to NXWM especially if investment in vehicles and services occurs.
I think First's disposal of Kidderminster could be up Arriva's street too?
Quote from: rob@mdc on August 12, 2012, 09:23:03 PM
I think First's disposal of Kidderminster could be up Arriva's street too?
With the view of expansion in the midlands they could buy it and use it as a base to move into the Stourbridge area in the south
Quote from: rob@mdc on August 12, 2012, 09:23:03 PM
I think First's disposal of Kidderminster could be up Arriva's street too?
Yes, and how about Redditch too for a move into South Birmingham?
Quote from: D10 on August 12, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
Quote from: rob@mdc on August 12, 2012, 09:23:03 PM
I think First's disposal of Kidderminster could be up Arriva's street too?
Yes, and how about Redditch too for a move into South Birmingham?
There is always a possibility NX could buy First's Kiddiminster & Redditch operations in an attempt to block Arriva's advances, especially if they felt it would increase Arriva's presence & ability to compete with NXWM
I doubt nxwm would go back into Cannock as there services didn't make money! As for the old green bus service 10 route ( now 810) it the route has significantly changed since then, now servicing all the back streets rather than just blasting straight down the 'passenger' busy Cannock road!
its true that the 810 is a shadow of its former self i wouldnt imagine Arriva wanting to continue it to be honest. NXWM could compete on the 1 between cannock & walsall its a busy corridor, theyre previous service, the 351 followed a circuitous route and required 1 optare solo per hour in its dying days, Arriva's 1 uses 3 full size single decks per hour!
Current date for this to happen is either 21st or 28th October, but Arriva are asking the TC if they can do short notice changes and do it around 4 weeks earlier at the end of September
what about the oft police if they think they are getting too big look what happened to stagecoach in devon a small bit not affecting others and blocked and look at the sale to mcgills by arriva looking on the rocks and arriva want out of scotland miles away from evrything else this sale is looking ropey not knocking the suggestion they are good and we do need another competetor with some clout in the west midlands people do deserve a choice not just NXWM though I see this unlikey as in the past arriva have just given up trying I may be wrong though
NXWM have such a strong network already in place, covering a vast area. Though all this hard work was done by the WMPTE to build this network. It would take a lot of investment and competing to build a network as strong as theirs. Though choice is always great for the passenger most people go on price and on a NXWM day saver you can go basically everywhere in the midlands!
6040-2, 7600/1 are all to transfer to Crewe
reinstated 3518, 3701-3, 4942 and 2382 transferred from Crewe are the replacements
So basically anything decent!
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 14, 2012, 09:07:00 PM
are the tridents staying with arriva then?
I haven't heard either way on the tridents yet
They dont operate many tridents other than the Wardles ones do they?
Quote from: bob on August 14, 2012, 09:56:51 PM
They dont operate many tridents other than the Wardles ones do they?
No, Arriva always prefered DAFs and Volvos
The Wardles ones were still running in cannock today theyve got awful legroom and NO wheelchair space/buggy space its hard to see the point of them being liw floor
Arriva have a few Tridents in Newcastle and some with teh shires that were new for the 38
so midland will have all the tat might as well call it Cannock 2 with all the crappy darts and scrap which will more than likley come from delta way
and Midland Red giving up the black country and other strong areas in the Midlands also helped NXWM become what it is
They could get better buses for Midland as they want to attract new customers but in areas they already dominate there is no need to
I hope they get all of Cannocks BU51 K** Mpd's , Truly shite buses!
Quote from: BU07 LGO on August 15, 2012, 05:44:11 PM
They could get better buses for Midland as they want to attract new customers but in areas they already dominate there is no need to
Spend money on buses for the west mids should this post be in windys havin a laugh they promised new buses when they got chase but kept the crap darts running (except the nationals which showed up how crap the darts were loved driving them the short time they were at cannock)
I personally think. Uses should be run like in London where as companies have to bid for routes, and all work together as a network. Passengers would benefit instead of bus companies.
There was a red Midland MPD Dart on Cannock to Walsall via Beownhills service 33 Today!!!!
I wonder what will happen to midlands 9 service, it was dropped by arriva when they took over chase and their services, since then midland picked it up and upgraded it with mcv's. The mcv's are not going to arriva (as stated by another user) so the 9 is again being affected by arriva who could withdraw the service for a second time.
It has been registered by Arriva. The change seems to be occuring from the 23rd September according to VOSA.
Last time they did operate it for at least a year before dropping it, and this time there is no NXWM 333 (although arguably there is now more competition in the Sandwell Travel 333X) and they have a more regional base this time.
i hope midlands shit buses on Cannock garage routes AINT the shape of things to come!
Do Midland actually operate the 33 then? i thought it was just a bus on loan to delta way!
Yes midland operate an every 30 minute service between brownhills and Walsall
I'm guessing if Arriva and Midland both operate the same route, the Midland service will be eventually dropped if their current service can cope with demand. If there is no longer compatibility on the route they can probably do away with the extra buses on route.
Suppose to say competition not compatability lol
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 15, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
Arriva could buy more Enviro 200's to replace some the darts and solos
Well if there going to be as terrible as 2141, MX12 CEV that I was on, on the tendered 257 last night they really shouldn't bother, for a brand new bus it really was appalling, never known any suspension to do less work, the seats were one piece constuction thin plastic jobs which made you recline at a funny angle rather than sit upright and offered almost no padding whatsoever, the poles rattled on idle, the light fittings were loose, the engine was horrendously loud and the windows shook more in their fixings than some of PE's R reg Mercs, I really wasn't impressed, compared to the E400 the Arriva E200 seem like toy buses.
On this note I really do hope that PE for the 222 and BC for the 99 do seriously consider the Wright Streetlight as although I haven't travelled on one it really can't be much worse than the cheap, hopeless E200's, which really really on the basis of MX12 CEV won't serve the Black Country for 16 years like the Volvo B6's! They also have 9 less seats than the B6 which would only make overcrowding on the always busy 222 even worse
Quote from: wilmotm on August 17, 2012, 09:20:31 AM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 15, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
Arriva could buy more Enviro 200's to replace some the darts and solos
Well if there going to be as terrible as 2141, MX12 CEV that I was on, on the tendered 257 last night they really shouldn't bother, for a brand new bus it really was appalling, never known any suspension to do less work, the seats were one piece constuction thin plastic jobs which made you recline at a funny angle rather than sit upright and offered almost no padding whatsoever, the poles rattled on idle, the light fittings were loose, the engine was horrendously loud and the windows shook more in their fixings than some of PE's R reg Mercs, I really wasn't impressed, compared to the E400 the Arriva E200 seem like toy buses.
On this note I really do hope that PE for the 222 and BC for the 99 do seriously consider the Wright Streetlight as although I haven't travelled on one it really can't be much worse than the cheap, hopeless E200's, which really really on the basis of MX12 CEV won't serve the Black Country for 16 years like the Volvo B6's! They also have 9 less seats than the B6 which would only make overcrowding on the always busy 222 even worse
Wilmotm,
The Arriva Enviro 200's are only 8.9m examples, they are available in larger lengths/seating capacities, I think the former interurban livery suits them well, but the plastic seats lets them down.
I'm with you on the NX midi's, I like to see NX take a batch of door forward Streetlites, surely they should have placed an order by now if they are expected in Dec with the current manufacturers lead times
Quote from: j_rp_wright on August 16, 2012, 04:06:04 PM
I personally think. Uses should be run like in London where as companies have to bid for routes, and all work together as a network. Passengers would benefit instead of bus companies.
I agree but watch your karma score as most will start putting in the negatives as most think NXWM are god the London idea is good there but has too many issues in other places look at the trouble other ITA's are having when they try Centro are working with the bus companies hense the reviews they seem to be in NXWM favour but they run the most buses by the way it was a plus from me
Quote from: Winston on August 17, 2012, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: wilmotm on August 17, 2012, 09:20:31 AM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 15, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
Arriva could buy more Enviro 200's to replace some the darts and solos
Well if there going to be as terrible as 2141, MX12 CEV that I was on, on the tendered 257 last night they really shouldn't bother, for a brand new bus it really was appalling, never known any suspension to do less work, the seats were one piece constuction thin plastic jobs which made you recline at a funny angle rather than sit upright and offered almost no padding whatsoever, the poles rattled on idle, the light fittings were loose, the engine was horrendously loud and the windows shook more in their fixings than some of PE's R reg Mercs, I really wasn't impressed, compared to the E400 the Arriva E200 seem like toy buses.
On this note I really do hope that PE for the 222 and BC for the 99 do seriously consider the Wright Streetlight as although I haven't travelled on one it really can't be much worse than the cheap, hopeless E200's, which really really on the basis of MX12 CEV won't serve the Black Country for 16 years like the Volvo B6's! They also have 9 less seats than the B6 which would only make overcrowding on the always busy 222 even worse
Wilmotm,
The Arriva Enviro 200's are only 8.9m examples, they are available in larger lengths/seating capacities, I think the former interurban livery suits them well, but the plastic seats lets them down.
I'm with you on the NX midi's, I like to see NX take a batch of door forward Streetlites, surely they should have placed an order by now if they are expected in Dec with the current manufacturers lead times
Arriva never buy decent new buses in the Midlands only for head office leicester area Arriva must stand for cheap and nasty and use recycled crap
Quote from: Discodave on August 17, 2012, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: Winston on August 17, 2012, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: wilmotm on August 17, 2012, 09:20:31 AM
Quote from: Trident 4609 on August 15, 2012, 06:26:51 PM
Arriva could buy more Enviro 200's to replace some the darts and solos
Well if there going to be as terrible as 2141, MX12 CEV that I was on, on the tendered 257 last night they really shouldn't bother, for a brand new bus it really was appalling, never known any suspension to do less work, the seats were one piece constuction thin plastic jobs which made you recline at a funny angle rather than sit upright and offered almost no padding whatsoever, the poles rattled on idle, the light fittings were loose, the engine was horrendously loud and the windows shook more in their fixings than some of PE's R reg Mercs, I really wasn't impressed, compared to the E400 the Arriva E200 seem like toy buses.
On this note I really do hope that PE for the 222 and BC for the 99 do seriously consider the Wright Streetlight as although I haven't travelled on one it really can't be much worse than the cheap, hopeless E200's, which really really on the basis of MX12 CEV won't serve the Black Country for 16 years like the Volvo B6's! They also have 9 less seats than the B6 which would only make overcrowding on the always busy 222 even worse
Wilmotm,
The Arriva Enviro 200's are only 8.9m examples, they are available in larger lengths/seating capacities, I think the former interurban livery suits them well, but the plastic seats lets them down.
I'm with you on the NX midi's, I like to see NX take a batch of door forward Streetlites, surely they should have placed an order by now if they are expected in Dec with the current manufacturers lead times
Arriva never buy decent new buses in the Midlands only for head office leicester area Arriva must stand for cheap and nasty and use recycled crap
Discodave,
I think your forgetting the 20 x Citaro's that are due for Tamworth once released from Olympic duties
except Tamworth and Telford thankyou for correcting me
Well they were never going to spend a fortune on state of the art kit for a load of tenders they're hardly breaking even on?
To be honest I find the standard of new buses disappointing all round compared to the stuff of years gone by. Particularly standard of seating and leg room, and loose fittings. These horrible and uncomfortable flimsy plastic seats have come from the continent and we are paying fo the lack of quality coachbuilders left in this country but our operators have to go somewhere to get large numbers of vehicles.
I prefer the older style bench seats which were much more comfortable and wish the moulded seat had never come along. Windows and fittings will always rattle on new buses because there is so much plastic these days. Buses may have advanced mechanically but in terms of bodywork and comfort I think they have gone backwards in many cases.
For instance, I remember the DP seats on the Timesaver Metrobuses and the other day I had to get the X51 from Walsall and it was one of the branded DP Geminis. You simply can't compare the seats on those to the ones on the Metros.
I wonder if theyll keep the x31 now they have more presence in the midlands. they need to take it off the m6 it is now 25 mins late and im cold and wet thanks to the pathetic 'facilities ' in albert st!!!!!!
To be honest due to the fact that NXWM have such a strong presence it wouldn't work as well as London! I think privatisation in the Midlands was a step back to be honest. That not me saying there aren't some good a respected operators in the Midlands.
Hansons are one a long standing black country firm
I reckon P942 EMS, the Marshall bodied darts, the excel, and possibly the oldest S reg Solos will probably be the first casualties, Arriva will apparently shortly be with drawing their early P & R reg darts once the step entry buses have gone and the Marshalls are a similar age
Quote from: bob on August 19, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
I reckon P942 EMS, the Marshall bodied darts, the excel, and possibly the oldest S reg Solos will probably be the first casualties, Arriva will apparently shortly be with drawing their early P & R reg darts once the step entry buses have gone and the Marshalls are a similar age
P942EMS is just about to get reinstated, so will get a new MoT, I reckon that one will last 12 months. My betting is on the excel and ex A2Z Marshall darts
I work next door to midland there redundat buses have already gone only the exel with no engine is there S2CLA
sorry my fingers are too fat for my keyboard hense the spelling cock ups
Quote from: Tony on August 19, 2012, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: bob on August 19, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
I reckon P942 EMS, the Marshall bodied darts, the excel, and possibly the oldest S reg Solos will probably be the first casualties, Arriva will apparently shortly be with drawing their early P & R reg darts once the step entry buses have gone and the Marshalls are a similar age
P942EMS is just about to get reinstated, so will get a new MoT, I reckon that one will last 12 months. My betting is on the excel and ex A2Z Marshall darts
Makes sense really, can't imagine Arriva keeping the Excel, it's a bit non-standard for them... in face, do any Arriva garages have Excels?
I'd like to see the Marshall bodied darts doing another year at least, certainly very striking buses to look at, almost brings a bit of American sunshine to Bilston, stress "almost"
i think MK Metro still have a couple of Excels . Tony
I think MK Metro still have 2, they were new to Claribels as it goes.
According to my records, Arriva TGM have no Optare Excels, Arriva Midlands did have one or two but theyre no more.
sconehead85
They must have gone a while ago then, thanks for the info
Arriva Shires 3002 V392KVY & 3003 V393KVY were still in service earlier this year at Hemel Hempstead . Tony
I stand corrected then, but they might not last long.
sconehead85
I have had it on good authority from a midland driver that the first withdrawals from Midland will be this week
MCV Evolutions 7600 / 7601 branded for route 9
Scanias 6040 / 42.
These vehicles were not part of the deal made with Arriva and are going to D&G at Crewe this week.
Quote from: nx4737 on August 19, 2012, 09:38:55 PM
Quote from: Tony on August 19, 2012, 07:25:21 PM
Quote from: bob on August 19, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
I reckon P942 EMS, the Marshall bodied darts, the excel, and possibly the oldest S reg Solos will probably be the first casualties, Arriva will apparently shortly be with drawing their early P & R reg darts once the step entry buses have gone and the Marshalls are a similar age
P942EMS is just about to get reinstated, so will get a new MoT, I reckon that one will last 12 months. My betting is on the excel and ex A2Z Marshall darts
Makes sense really, can't imagine Arriva keeping the Excel, it's a bit non-standard for them... in face, do any Arriva garages have Excels?
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=arriva%20excel
They look good still i think, if they had a tidy up they dont look as old as they are
One of the vdls was driving through stafford monday headin toward stoke
Quote from: Discodave on August 19, 2012, 07:25:47 PM
I work next door to midland there redundat buses have already gone only the exel with no engine is there S2CLA
I correct myself S2CLA is in the garage having work on it will it be reinstated or sold off ? only bus left on yard is 2248 a MPD still taxed till oct 12 but not moved for ages no seat swabs on seats though knowing arriva they will keep that though they are good at recycling rubbish buses.
cannock will proberbly have all the crap marshall darts and solos and the y/hke could go stafford to replace r/tjw's p/fea darts
yep fits in with the scrap just right
6041 was in Nantwich today on the 85 direct service to Hanley. Good to have some 'different' vehicles at D & G Crewe.
6042 should be joining it they should have had both they were not part of the arriva sale heard the vdl sb190 buses were going up that way too not sure if it is to d&g
typical, some of the only decent buses midland have are going to d&g and yes i think the y/hke buses should go to stafford, even if stafford had the v/kda volvos from tamworth, the y reg darts would be the newest and i think the v/kda buses would be wasted at stafford, its not that often they fill a dart at stafford is it
no the routes stafford only go to the estates 2 to 3 miles max except for the ecceleshall on the evening and the hixon routes if they still do them
Quote from: Discodave on September 08, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
6042 should be joining it they should have had both they were not part of the arriva sale heard the vdl sb190 buses were going up that way too not sure if it is to d&g
All 3 scanias and 2 VDLs have been at D&G for a couple of weeks now.
I am having trouble updating my website at the moment, hopefully normal service will resume as soon as possible
thanks tony do you have any info on S2CLA I have seen it on the ramps now for a while is it being put back into service or sold/moved on
stafford have 3 or 4 yogs and ex derby w/snr darts and what ever route theyre on, there never full, surely the w/snr darts would be better at cannock and swap them for the 51 plate darts
dont stafford have 2350 S350 YOG because its not being in cannock for some time now and as for the s/khn darts theres 1 or 2 sitting in the yard at cannock, not sure if there withdrawn or entering serviceat sd or ck
how on earth did 2366 get flooded? typical arriva cant even loof after s reg darts!! and 23540 scrapped? this was the better 1 out of the 2 at cannock wasnt it, do burton have any s/yogs, ive seen a couple of darts and there longer than the mpd's
Quote from: arrivaaston on September 08, 2012, 08:05:43 PM
how on earth did 2366 get flooded? typical arriva cant even loof after s reg darts!! and 23540 scrapped? this was the better 1 out of the 2 at cannock wasnt it, do burton have any s/yogs, ive seen a couple of darts and there longer than the mpd's
It was in the floods in July. I believe this is it. (The top picture)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-18737376
And here it is in Cannock garage th day after
http://wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/2366a.html
Note the weeds around the windscreen wiper. The interior even had mud & weeds up to the windows
Quote from: SI 2012 on September 08, 2012, 08:50:38 PM
Thanks for the link TONY, its a bit of a shame for STAFFORD they only had this vehicle for a month or so before this happened i am amazed how it got flooded upto to window level
The river burst its banks while this bus was at the side of it, It it took about a minute for the bus to fill up with water. The driver did not drive through a flood
i take it that this bus wont be refurbed then, it will just get scrapped and why is there som many of these s/khn darts transfering in and what are they replacing?
whats going to happen to the 2 deckers that midland have when arriva take over, surely these wont be going to d&g??
Anyone no whats happing??
pretty simple...... Arriva are taking over midland and will all eventualy become arriva
Plenty of posts already on this subject, do we need another one? ::)
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=661.0
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=613.0
agreed, but does anybody know whats going to happen to the 2 deckers that midland have when arriva take over or is this like the million dollar question?
The buses will be incorporated into the Arriva fleet, and most likely be repainted or have Arriva logos attached.
u sure it was a midland bus and not an ex d&g that went to wardle during that take over?
Nice buses was on one on Friday, big inside as well they seat about 85 people, Midland have had the seats redone in a nice red, some bloke stopped the bus in Perton he wanted to take pictures of as may Midland buses as he could before everything becomes boring arriva. I bet the double deckers will end up somewhere else & boring darts in boring arriva livery will become the norm.
End of an era for Midland that has served the Wolverhampton area well, I wil give it 6 weeks max before arriva start reducing the frequences & then when people start using other means of transport use it as an excuse to withdraw the service altogether
Yep itll be Chase all over again.... Maybe these might be the deckers theyre on about Cannock having...
Fleetline 6477 - You are correct , the fleet news section noted that D&G h ave got 6040-2 and 7600/1. So except 2 Dennis Tridents and an Optare Excel (doubtful) Arriva will get more Darts and Optare Solos from Midland.
Ive noticed the other "Midland" bus company only has three light blue liveried early step Darts which if acquired by Arriva would be heading for Barnsley (or preservation).
sconehead85
Quote from: woody38 on September 09, 2012, 06:32:33 PM
Nice buses was on one on Friday, big inside as well they seat about 85 people, Midland have had the seats redone in a nice red, some bloke stopped the bus in Perton he wanted to take pictures of as may Midland buses as he could before everything becomes boring arriva. I bet the double deckers will end up somewhere else & boring darts in boring arriva livery will become the norm.
End of an era for Midland that has served the Wolverhampton area well, I wil give it 6 weeks max before arriva start reducing the frequences & then when people start using other means of transport use it as an excuse to withdraw the service altogether
and sacking the drivers my mate left and went to midland as he saw more and more of his mates sacked or forced out via dubious means and now him plus some other ex chase drivers are hacked off as they are now took over again and will have to go through the s**t again
Why dont they tranfer the midland drivers to different bus company ??
TUPE rules not 100% sure how they work but apparantly you cant just take over a company and sack everyone does anybody know anymore?
I think wen they take over midland they should keep the drivers who want to stay
They will all stay as what jobs are they about not many? NXWM have vacancies but not in the black country and with Arriva buying up all the smaller companies and possibly try for black/blue diamond you will not be able to get away from them
Do you no what buses they are keeping from the midland fleet ??
Well the good buses have gone to d&g scanias and VDL buses not sure of the rest Tony (Boss of site, super moderator timelord) would be the best one to ask
I like the deckers that midland have hope cannock have them think they would do on some of cannock busy rotes
i think over the next few weeks you will see on fleet changes that the midland deckers have transfered to thurmaston or wigston or maybe even placed in reserve, i cant see cannock keeping them on to be honest
Quote from: arrivaaston on September 10, 2012, 01:19:42 PM
i think over the next few weeks you will see on fleet changes that the midland deckers have transfered to thurmaston or wigston or maybe even placed in reserve, i cant see cannock keeping them on to be honest
The Trident's are more than likely to stay at Wednesfield, rather than to transfer to Cannock. No Other Arriva Midlands garage have Trident's so no garage will be familiar with the type. Unless they are transferred to another part of the Country to an Arriva group with Trident's, then I would think they will stay at Wednesfield with the Drivers that are familiar with them.
Quote from: John-s-91 on September 10, 2012, 05:19:25 PM
No Other Arriva Midlands garage have Trident's so no garage will be familiar with the type. Unless they are transferred to another part of the Country to an Arriva group with Trident's, then I would think they will stay at Wednesfield with the Drivers that are familiar with them.
There's Tridents at Adderley Green.....
Midlands deckers wernt tridents were they? i thought they were presidents?
Quote from: arrivaaston on September 10, 2012, 05:57:37 PM
Midlands deckers wernt tridents were they? i thought they were presidents?
They are East Lancs
bodied Tridents....
>EDIT< Although to be fair, both the EL & Plaxton President bodies have both been greedy with their fair share of the ugly brush! ;D
i dont follow the sympathy or buy a drink remark :s what has that gotta do with 2 bloody double deckers lol
Quote from: NEL111P on September 10, 2012, 05:52:21 PM
There's Tridents at Adderley Green.....
Yeah, course there is! Only 4 though. I still think they might stop at Wednesfield..
adderley green the wardle depot? they have the t/kpu tridents and a couple of those are x50 branded arent they? and now the former 'midland' deckers are at adderley green?
and a x50 branded gemini one on the pictures site
i think the branded gemmini is ex arriva leicester 4777
any body know if Midlands buses will have new fleet numbers and what they'll be??
some of Midlands Darts though have the same fleet as what arriva have, particuarly some of the Y/HKE darts
can they do that though because the ex chase darts have been reinstated somewhere havent they so the fleet numbers will still be in use, and surely the 2 Y/KNB darts will have a different fleet number than the 1's they have now
I'll have a guess at this based on the assumption that the quantities of vehicles taken over are correct.
31 Dennis Darts - 2411-2441 ?
17 Optare Solos- 2550-2566 ?
2 Dennis Tridents - 4892/3 ?
Most if not all of these numbers are likely to be allocated. The Solos are catching up with the 26xx Volvo B6BLEs.
I have on my disks/USBs a plan for a 5-digit national scheme for Arriva if anyone is interested.
sconehead85
proberbly have all the rubbish such as 2153 (Ex thamesdown), 4392 P942 ems, 4301 &4302 Y301/2 KNB and a majority of the MPD's, still think the Y/HKE darts would be better at Stafford to replace ageing darts such as 2307, 2311, 2316 etc
if 20 B6BLEs are going to be put on midland routes will that mean there'll be 20 buses from the Midland fleet that Arriva wont use?
more tahn likely send the decent b6's there and transfer 20 nails to different garrages such as Cannock, Stafford And Burton
Arriva Solo's are also numbered 6000-6010 as well as the ex Wardles ones 25**. So they might be numbered 6011 onwards.
The 6000 series are solos not owned by arriva but by shropshire or any other authority which supplies buses for operators to use on there tendered services they still have to maintain them though
This is the story of 20 Volvo B6BLE/Wrights new to Arriva Merseyside in the autumn of 2000 numbered 2801-22 with gaps (X801-22 AJA). These were despatched to Arriva Scotland West towards the end of 2011, but then McGills took over and didnt want them, so they went to Arriva North East, where they have been in store, bearing numbers in the 45xxx series, which set off a false alarm about Arriva possibly introducing a national numbering scheme.
Its possible Arriva Midlands could receive these vehicles, even though they have only a couple of years left. These could see off most of the ex Midland Darts if these Volvos materalise.
sconehead85
When Arriva accquired Chase, they had a final day of operation specials.
Any plans for the Midland operation to do the same on their final day?
Quote from: Westy on September 17, 2012, 06:35:59 PM
When Arriva accquired Chase, they had a final day of operation specials.
Any plans for the Midland operation to do the same on their final day?
It wasn't on the Chase final day Arriva did anything, it was when Arriva finally decided to withdraw the last Leyland nationals they did it, somehow I cannot see the same attraction with Darts & Solos
Quote from: Tony on September 17, 2012, 06:54:30 PM
Quote from: Westy on September 17, 2012, 06:35:59 PM
When Arriva accquired Chase, they had a final day of operation specials.
Any plans for the Midland operation to do the same on their final day?
It wasn't on the Chase final day Arriva did anything, it was when Arriva finally decided to withdraw the last Leyland nationals they did it, somehow I cannot see the same attraction with Darts & Solos
I bet Bob and Discodave would be first in the queue for a Dart and Solo final running day!
I'll probably catch a Midland solo on the last day but nothing special. I like solos!
When is the last day of operation for MIDLAND before they become ARRIVA i cant wait to see what vehicles CANNOCK will be getting from MIDLAND if we do get any that is
Has anybody got any good information on what MIDLAND vehicles will be going to ARRIVA CANNOCK and ARRIVA STAFFORD if any are to transfer to these depots ?
Quote from: andy on September 17, 2012, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 17, 2012, 06:54:30 PM
Quote from: Westy on September 17, 2012, 06:35:59 PM
When Arriva accquired Chase, they had a final day of operation specials.
Any plans for the Midland operation to do the same on their final day?
It wasn't on the Chase final day Arriva did anything, it was when Arriva finally decided to withdraw the last Leyland nationals they did it, somehow I cannot see the same attraction with Darts & Solos
I bet Bob and Discodave would be first in the queue for a Dart and Solo final running day!
Armed with a rocket launcher and high explosive (for the buses not the passengers)
appanantly the B6 volvos from Tamworth will be there to show the Arriva presence as Tamworth are having Mercedes citaros with the other buses suppose repaint and refurb as the garage is not closing so cannot see any moving for a bit.
Quote from: ARRIVA CK SI on September 18, 2012, 08:25:11 PM
When is the last day of operation for MIDLAND before they become ARRIVA i cant wait to see what vehicles CANNOCK will be getting from MIDLAND if we do get any that is
23rd is when the deal is finished
Damn, the 63 doesn't run on a Sunday.
its hardly worth celebrating considering the fleet is tat lol
Have you seen the state of the paintwork on MIDLAND Optare W298 EYG ( 2298 ) lateley i saw it today in CANNOCK bus station its in appalling condition
will match with the bad state of arriva's MPD darts then lol
seen some of the re-instated vehicles such as a r701mew dart with a mix of seats! and S2CLA operating the 10
Quote from: ARRIVA CK SI on September 18, 2012, 08:30:42 PM
Has anybody got any good information on what MIDLAND vehicles will be going to ARRIVA CANNOCK and ARRIVA STAFFORD if any are to transfer to these depots ?
I would not think that much of the Midland fleet would move elsewhere in Arriva. You never know though! We will have to wait for the next few months of Arriva fleet changes to see for sure.
I would think that some of the Marshall Dart's and the Excels, and maybe some of the older Plaxton Dart's will not last much longer with the slightly newer B6's from Tamworth and the ex-London Dart's coming to Wednesfield soon.
Well last day for MIDLAND is 23RD SEPT i believe so if buses do come to CANNOCK / STAFFORD i imagine they would be in CK workshops for while getting sprayed into ARRIVA
Cannock will need extra buses from day one if theyre gonna run the 23 , 62, 810 from monday or are these stayin at wednesfield?
Spoke to my mate nothing confirmed on any movements of routes or buses just ones for eventual respray will have the B6 buses from Tamworth as Tony and others have said lots of times
23RD September is when ARRIVA take over MIDLAND so things will start to change by Monday so thats why the timetable screens are showing it as ARRIVA in Wolverhampton
arriva have all midland timetables on there website, I thing they where but on Thursday or Friday the 20/21 September.
wonder if therell be any Arriva buses on the routes 2mw??
Just seen a midland solo on the 26 with Arriva Midlands Limited sticker on top of the address for midland
fleetnumbers are
2101 X209 ONH
2102 JJZ 5248
2103 SN51 UDW
2104 JJZ 5278
2105 V332 CVV
2106 Y381 HKE
2107 Y383 HKE
2108 Y384 HKE
2109 Y385 HKE
2110 Y386 HKE
2111 Y387 HKE
2112 Y388 HKE
2113 Y389 HKE
2114 Y391 HKE
2115 Y392 HKE
2116 Y393 HKE
2117 JJZ 3437
2118 GNZ 3462
2119 T551 HMH
2120 T552 HNH
2121 GNZ 3561
2122 W895 AGA
2123 Y301 KNB
2124 Y302 KNB
2125 Y382 HKE
2126 R701 MEW
2127 R702 MEW
2128 R703 MEW
2129 P942 EMS
2411 P153 SMW
2412 OUI 2376
2414 V700 CBC
2415 S516 KFL
2416 S518 KFL
2417 S524 KFL
2418 S525 KFL
2419 LUI 9649
2420 R867 MCE
2421 R869 MCE
2422 R54 OCK
2423 R695 WAW
2550 WL03 AOL
2551 S42 FWY
2552 S102 LBL
2553 W282 EYG
2554 W287 EYG
2555 W291 EYG
2556 W298 EYG
2557 W299 EYG
2558 X332 ABU
2559 X349 AUX
2560 KV51 KZG
2561 KX51 UCW
2562 KX51 UCV
2563 YN53 ELV
2564 X731 FPO
2565 X939 NUB
2566 X943 NUB
3151 S2 CLA
4851 W651 SNN
4854 W654 SNN
I take it that the mass arrival of Arriva liveried buses hasn't occurred then as yet?
I wonder if when the buses from Tamworth some will go to Cannock to cover the 32/33 route freeing up the 51 plates for the old midland routes out off Cannock ?
Regarding the fleet numbers, I PARTLY got the Dart fleet numbers right, but not those in the 21xx range, I got the Optare Solos correct. Im surprised the Excel was purchased, a reinstated Dart could have replaced that.
sconehead85
What an absolute load of tat, cant see much lasting very long, wonder what'll be first to go
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
There are only two vehicles with the 'new style' registrations introduced in 2001, 11 years ago, tells you how bad it is
Average vehicle age of over 13 and a half years!!!!!! ;D
I hope Cannock garage doesnt end up with too many of these
They should send all but about 2 or 3 buses straight for scrap-or sell them to VIP/Travel Express/GRS-which is essentially the same as selling them for scrap :D
Fleet numbers are not going to be easy for me to remember now there all over the place,fleet numbers were much easier to remember when with MIDLAND
Quote from: Tony on September 23, 2012, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
There are only two vehicles with the 'new style' registrations introduced in 2001, 11 years ago, tells you how bad it is
I can see 6?
I'm sure Arriva have made the acquisition for the contracts and presence, not the old Darts and Solos. They have proved elsewhere that they are not afraid to invest in large amounts of new stock and I would be amazed if some new buses dont arrive for Cannock and Midland at some point in the near future, although I'm sure there will be a minor amount of experimenting before the whole thing settles down.
Why do people on here always go straight for the jugular when it comes to the state / age of Arriva vehicles when there are photos appearing on a daily basis of the likes of NXWM's 1643, and that is just one of many examples.
Arriva get lambasted for the state of theirs yet a knackered and awfully presented NX vehicle is celebrated as a classic and cherished. I'm not defending either operator, if they put scrap on the road they should be fair game but a bit of balance guys please!
Quote from: andy on September 23, 2012, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 23, 2012, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
There are only two vehicles with the 'new style' registrations introduced in 2001, 11 years ago, tells you how bad it is
I can see 6?
I'm sure Arriva have made the acquisition for the contracts and presence, not the old Darts and Solos. They have proved elsewhere that they are not afraid to invest in large amounts of new stock and I would be amazed if some new buses dont arrive for Cannock and Midland at some point in the near future, although I'm sure there will be a minor amount of experimenting before the whole thing settles down.
Why do people on here always go straight for the jugular when it comes to the state / age of Arriva vehicles when there are photo's appearing on a daily basis of the likes of NXWM's 1643, and that is just one of many examples.
Arriva get lambasted for the state of theirs yet a knackered and awfully presented NX vehicle is celebrated as a classic and cherished. I'm not defending either operator, if they put scrap on the road they should be fair game but a bit of balance guys please!
I agree with Andy when it comes to why they bought Midlands. Some NXWM buses are not perfect however tatty mercs and b6s and b10ls-most really arent tatty-are amazing buses unlike darts and solos. Ok, maybe not b6s but you get the drift. Its not just the state of arriva's buses-they are overall a lot worse such as the b10bles are newer than nxwm's b10ls but you definitely wouldnt think so! But also, NXWM's buses are better-no darts with flimsy pointer bodies, no mpds and the darts we have are epic
Quote from: Trident 4609 on September 23, 2012, 09:59:09 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to operate the 560 from wednesfield
They may change it in the future, when Arriva have settled into the operations at Wednesfield. It would make a lot more sense.
Quote from: andy on September 23, 2012, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 23, 2012, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
There are only two vehicles with the 'new style' registrations introduced in 2001, 11 years ago, tells you how bad it is
I can see 6
I'm sure Arriva have made the acquisition for the contracts and presence, not the old Darts and Solos. They have proved elsewhere that they are not afraid to invest in large amounts of new stock and I would be amazed if some new buses dont arrive for Cannock and Midland at some point in the near future, although I'm sure there will be a minor amount of experimenting before the whole thing settles down.
Why do people on here always go straight for the jugular when it comes to the state / age of Arriva vehicles when there are photos appearing on a daily basis of the likes of NXWM's 1643, and that is just one of many examples.
Arriva get lambasted for the state of theirs yet a knackered and awfully presented NX vehicle is celebrated as a classic and cherished. I'm not defending either operator, if they put scrap on the road they should be fair game but a bit of balance guys please!
Midland? Presence?? What a handful of low rent two bit routes?
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 08:29:16 PM
Quote from: andy on September 23, 2012, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 23, 2012, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
There are only two vehicles with the 'new style' registrations introduced in 2001, 11 years ago, tells you how bad it is
I can see 6?
I'm sure Arriva have made the acquisition for the contracts and presence, not the old Darts and Solos. They have proved elsewhere that they are not afraid to invest in large amounts of new stock and I would be amazed if some new buses dont arrive for Cannock and Midland at some point in the near future, although I'm sure there will be a minor amount of experimenting before the whole thing settles down.
Why do people on here always go straight for the jugular when it comes to the state / age of Arriva vehicles when there are photo's appearing on a daily basis of the likes of NXWM's 1643, and that is just one of many examples.
Arriva get lambasted for the state of theirs yet a knackered and awfully presented NX vehicle is celebrated as a classic and cherished. I'm not defending either operator, if they put scrap on the road they should be fair game but a bit of balance guys please!
I agree with Andy when it comes to why they bought Midlands. Some NXWM buses are not perfect however tatty mercs and b6s and b10ls-most really arent tatty-are amazing buses unlike darts and solos. Ok, maybe not b6s but you get the drift. Its not just the state of arriva's buses-they are overall a lot worse such as the b10bles are newer than nxwm's b10ls but you definitely wouldnt think so! But also, NXWM's buses are better-no darts with flimsy pointer bodies, no mpds and the darts we have are epic
OK I'm going to bite the bullet and say it, and watch my karma score plummet.....The NX B10L's are complete sheds that should have been up the road a long time ago. Does anybody here ever actually have to travel on one like I do?
Quote from: andy on September 23, 2012, 10:53:48 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 08:29:16 PM
Quote from: andy on September 23, 2012, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Tony on September 23, 2012, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 23, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Totally agree with Bob. NEWEST is 8 years!!!!! And theres only one vehicle this age
There are only two vehicles with the 'new style' registrations introduced in 2001, 11 years ago, tells you how bad it is
I can see 6?
I'm sure Arriva have made the acquisition for the contracts and presence, not the old Darts and Solos. They have proved elsewhere that they are not afraid to invest in large amounts of new stock and I would be amazed if some new buses dont arrive for Cannock and Midland at some point in the near future, although I'm sure there will be a minor amount of experimenting before the whole thing settles down.
Why do people on here always go straight for the jugular when it comes to the state / age of Arriva vehicles when there are photo's appearing on a daily basis of the likes of NXWM's 1643, and that is just one of many examples.
Arriva get lambasted for the state of theirs yet a knackered and awfully presented NX vehicle is celebrated as a classic and cherished. I'm not defending either operator, if they put scrap on the road they should be fair game but a bit of balance guys please!
I agree with Andy when it comes to why they bought Midlands. Some NXWM buses are not perfect however tatty mercs and b6s and b10ls-most really arent tatty-are amazing buses unlike darts and solos. Ok, maybe not b6s but you get the drift. Its not just the state of arriva's buses-they are overall a lot worse such as the b10bles are newer than nxwm's b10ls but you definitely wouldnt think so! But also, NXWM's buses are better-no darts with flimsy pointer bodies, no mpds and the darts we have are epic
OK I'm going to bite the bullet and say it, and watch my karma score plummet.....The NX B10L's are complete sheds that should have been up the road a long time ago. Does anybody here ever actually have to travel on one like I do?
Get them frequently on my local bus route :L
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
Quote from: bob on September 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
I'd very highly doubt they'd send a bus out with masking tape holding a window in place, the NXWM ones are awful with fag burned seats, sluggish performance and etched windows you can't see out off
Yes they do have one with masking tape, V609 DBC , i think thats the one. Ive been on it. Etched windows, etc fag burns, none of Walsalls are that bad, must be the ones that go through the trampier areas of Brum. Its the scummier element of passengers that etch windows etc
Well if and when Cannock get new or newer vehicles , put them in my "Arriva Cannock depot happenings thread" !
sconehead85
Quote from: bob on September 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
Totally agree. The NXWM ones-even before many were refurbed are tonnes better than the v....dbc's. These are complete sheds not the nxwm ones. The seats are really threadbare, they rattle, the engines sound worn out-tbf theyve probably done more miles relative to their age than the NXWM ones as there mostly on interurban as opposed to urban routes but still
Quote from: Peter123 on September 24, 2012, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: bob on September 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
Totally agree. The NXWM ones-even before many were refurbed are tonnes better than the v....dbc's. These are complete sheds not the nxwm ones. The seats are really threadbare, they rattle, the engines sound worn out-tbf theyve probably done more miles relative to their age than the NXWM ones as there mostly on interurban as opposed to urban routes but still
Guys, you're missing the point, which is that these buses are well past their sell by date and give an extremely poor image, doing nothing to entice commuters out of their cars. This is the problem I am talking about. It shouldn't be about a competition between Arriva and NX to see who's Volvos are the least awful! The days of running around on 15 year old boneshakers should be gone.
Quote from: andy on September 24, 2012, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 24, 2012, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: bob on September 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
Totally agree. The NXWM ones-even before many were refurbed are tonnes better than the v....dbc's. These are complete sheds not the nxwm ones. The seats are really threadbare, they rattle, the engines sound worn out-tbf theyve probably done more miles relative to their age than the NXWM ones as there mostly on interurban as opposed to urban routes but still
Guys, you're missing the point, which is that these buses are well past their sell by date and give an extremely poor image, doing nothing to entice commuters out of their cars. This is the problem I am talking about. It shouldn't be about a competition between Arriva and NX to see who's Volvos are the least awful! The days of running around on 15 year old boneshakers should be gone.
I broadly agree with you. However, as I have said before, we mustnt get too worked up about vehicle age more about vehicle condition. As, for instance, with Go North East's refurbished T.... CBW renowns, as they have been refurbed, passengers often imagine them to be new or newish buses.
How come they havent slapped the Arriva name on the red buses?
Have they changed the legal lettering?
Quote from: Peter123 on September 24, 2012, 06:36:16 PM
Quote from: andy on September 24, 2012, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 24, 2012, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: bob on September 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
Totally agree. The NXWM ones-even before many were refurbed are tonnes better than the v....dbc's. These are complete sheds not the nxwm ones. The seats are really threadbare, they rattle, the engines sound worn out-tbf theyve probably done more miles relative to their age than the NXWM ones as there mostly on interurban as opposed to urban routes but still
Guys, you're missing the point, which is that these buses are well past their sell by date and give an extremely poor image, doing nothing to entice commuters out of their cars. This is the problem I am talking about. It shouldn't be about a competition between Arriva and NX to see who's Volvos are the least awful! The days of running around on 15 year old boneshakers should be gone.
I broadly agree with you. However, as I have said before, we mustnt get too worked up about vehicle age more about vehicle condition. As, for instance, with Go North East's refurbished T.... CBW renowns, as they have been refurbed, passengers often imagine them to be new or newish buses.
I went on a black diamond dart 31419 (R954JYS) and it has been refurbed and the seating and paintwork on the hand rails are spotless and definitely doesnt look its age or even sound it. For a vehicle that is over 15 years old it seems to be in very good condition.
Quote from: Peter123 on September 24, 2012, 06:36:16 PM
Quote from: andy on September 24, 2012, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: Peter123 on September 24, 2012, 05:36:52 PM
Quote from: bob on September 23, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
The NXWM ones despite being 3-4 years older are in LOADS better nick than the V reg Arriva ones! Threadbare seats tired sounding engines, one of them has got masking tape on keeping a window secure! So the Midland tat should fit right in
Totally agree. The NXWM ones-even before many were refurbed are tonnes better than the v....dbc's. These are complete sheds not the nxwm ones. The seats are really threadbare, they rattle, the engines sound worn out-tbf theyve probably done more miles relative to their age than the NXWM ones as there mostly on interurban as opposed to urban routes but still
Guys, you're missing the point, which is that these buses are well past their sell by date and give an extremely poor image, doing nothing to entice commuters out of their cars. This is the problem I am talking about. It shouldn't be about a competition between Arriva and NX to see who's Volvos are the least awful! The days of running around on 15 year old boneshakers should be gone.
I broadly agree with you. However, as I have said before, we mustnt get too worked up about vehicle age more about vehicle condition. As, for instance, with Go North East's refurbished T.... CBW renowns, as they have been refurbed, passengers often imagine them to be new or newish buses.
Yes, you're right it isn't about vehicle age, but the post that triggered mine was a cheap swipe at the age of the fleet so clearly to most people on here it's only a crap old bus if it belongs to another operator and not the one you like! That was my point.
Yes, you're right it isn't about vehicle age, but the post that triggered mine was a cheap swipe at the age of the fleet so clearly to most people on here it's only a crap old bus if it belongs to another operator and not the one you like! That was my point.
I agree. Which is perhaps why I am prepared to accept that many of diamond's buses are quite old.
Quote from: Westy on September 24, 2012, 07:01:57 PM
How come they havent slapped the Arriva name on the red buses?
Have they changed the legal lettering?
Legal lettering has changed, fleetnames haven't yet and there is no sign of any Arriva liveried vehicles around.
unless they intend to keep the Midland brand but just paint them in the same livery as Wardles? i.e. red instead of blue and the cow horns.
Plus it depends on if Tamworths B6s become available. Lets hope the mercs are in service soon to replace them.
If the point was to give Arriva a presence in the west midlands i doubt theyll keep the Midland name, not much of a presence in itself ...
Quote from: Tomjusttom on September 24, 2012, 10:34:23 PM
unless they intend to keep the Midland brand but just paint them in the same livery as Wardles? i.e. red instead of blue and the cow horns.
Plus it depends on if Tamworths B6s become available. Lets hope the mercs are in service soon to replace them.
Stated on Arriva website when they aqquired Midland it would be absorbed into the arriva brand they are still doing exact fare will need to give them time on changing things over as they have only just became the official owner
Quote from: Tomjusttom on September 24, 2012, 10:34:23 PM
unless they intend to keep the Midland brand but just paint them in the same livery as Wardles? i.e. red instead of blue and the cow horns.
Plus it depends on if Tamworths B6s become available. Lets hope the mercs are in service soon to replace them.
Mercs enter service any time soon?
You must be having a laugh...
Thought they were entering service in first week of October
Knowing Arriva they'll be late
Quote from: bob on September 24, 2012, 10:42:37 PM
If the point was to give Arriva a presence in the west midlands i doubt theyll keep the Midland name, not much of a presence in itself ...
They are Arriva MIDLANDS Bob, so there is no need for another "Midland" name. Personally they should scrap the Wardle name, although I do think Arriva should bring back the Arriva serving.......
strapline.
sconehead85
Quote from: fleetline6477 on September 24, 2012, 09:23:20 PM
Quote from: Westy on September 24, 2012, 07:01:57 PM
How come they havent slapped the Arriva name on the red buses?
Have they changed the legal lettering?
Legal lettering has changed, fleetnames haven't yet and there is no sign of any Arriva liveried vehicles around.
I guess they are just doing a temporary job at the mo!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/retroscania/8025860944/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/retroscania/8025863628/in/photostream/
more to put on soon!
Quote from: Trident 4609 on September 23, 2012, 09:59:09 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to operate the 560 from wednesfield
See routes 19 and 560 thread I mentioned that plus but not combine them reliablitiy would be awful if wolves goes boobs up plus retime the 560 so it does not carry fresh air being timed 5 mins behind the 89 usually the NXWM one is not on time as they are always on top of each other so much for fair competition and enforcement of timetable from inspectors or VOSA
Dont know why Arriva have carried on with the 560, doesnt make sense, they got rid of the X31 which a lot of the time had very good loads and run this Chase relic?
An old agreement I think with centro which chase agreed to when the 560 went through the hospital (NXWM)
The 89s reliabilty issues were sorted out when it became a 30 min frequency instead of every 20 mins. I use the 89 most days and it is always punctual.
The 89 often misses out Cleveland Street when I'm waiting there for the 3, much to the amusement of those waiting for it.
Quote from: andyr on September 26, 2012, 08:07:01 PM
The 89s reliabilty issues were sorted out when it became a 30 min frequency instead of every 20 mins. I use the 89 most days and it is always punctual.
really
Quote from: Badger on September 26, 2012, 08:39:30 PM
The 89 often misses out Cleveland Street when I'm waiting there for the 3, much to the amusement of those waiting for it.
Proves my point if its so puntual it would run the full route and I have been one of those people plus running in 2's on a 30 min frequency does not help it serving every housing estate side road in Pelsall and High heath split the route always at least 10 mins late getting to Bloxwich from Walsall
The 89 provides the people of High Heath with a regular and reliable bus service to both Walsall Bloxwich and Wolverhampton. Buses need to be routed were there is a demand for it hence the 89 serving these areas. I would of presumed that someone who worked in the industry would be aware of these basic ingrediants to make a succesful and profitable route
Yes but if your going to serve every side street and be running along very busy sections of road give the drivers time to do it espically if your joining 2 routes together like the 89 is the 560 when NXWM ran it even though it ran through New cross unlike Arriva it still was on time plus it had time to catch up in Bloxwich if it was late. Joining up routes may save money and help with driver changes etc but reliability suffers
Hopefully they wont paint many! The Midland Darts are worse Tat than their own!
This has been covered in several threads now!
Arriva are unlikely to paint many of the Midland vehicles. Any day now the new Citaros are due to enter service at Tamworth which will release around 20 B6's for Midland. This is on top of a number of vehicles being released from Burton by the refurbished London Geminis and other vehicle movements which are probably due to occur.
I would also anticipate that creating some 'spare' capacity to free up any Midland vehicles that are being retained in order to start a repainting cycle for them.
My guess though is that the vast majority of the most elderly Darts and many of the Solos will be withdrawn fairly quickly. I will be horrified if I'm wrong, we will see.
Are all of the Citaros at Tamworth ready to go?
Also 'a number of vehicles' from Burton? How many Gemini's are going there I thought it would only be 4? Cant understand why theyve even allocated Double Deckers there to be fair, they dont really have any services that warrant them! Ive seen MPDs cope ( just) on the 1 to Tutbury/Uttoxeter! They certainly dont have any more need for them than Cannock garage...
Quote from: bob on September 29, 2012, 12:32:25 AM
Also 'a number of vehicles' from Burton? How many Gemini's are going there I thought it would only be 4? Cant understand why theyve even allocated Double Deckers there to be fair, they dont really have any services that warrant them! Ive seen MPDs cope ( just) on the 1 to Tutbury/Uttoxeter! They certainly dont have any more need for them than Cannock garage...
They are for the 1, which always used to be 100% decker and I can only imagine has grown somewhat recently, and the X38. To be fair I can't see the reasoning for that but there must be some. I passed one on the A38 at Littleover the other day that has been branded.
The MPD's can't continue on the 1, it is far too demanding for them. They should never have got on there in the first place, much like the Cannock routes.
I was amazed at how many full size SD's and Deckers Arriva replaced with MPD's at Burton, Stafford and Cannock a few years ago. The Burton town services are far too busy for MPD's at times. I think the powers that be are finally starting to realise these errors.
A lot of Cannocks services dont seem to be that busy these days, but certain journeys on the Stafford, and dare i say Lichfields ( ive been on single deckers at bursting point before now). The problem with MPDs is that even on lighter loaded services, theyre not suited to interurbsn routes, as they are horrendously noisy and uncomfortable. Even Solos sound better than them. Travelling to Walsall /Wolverhampton on them is horrible but Arriva still use them. The newer 08 pair of B9TLs borrowed from Derby are for the X38 arent they? or is that just a temporary measure? The fact that most routes from Cannock are amply covered by single deckers doesnt say a lot does it :-(
Most of cannock needs full size sd buses and rid of the mpds as you said about interurban routes just for comfort and yes some deckers but as I have said before the interworked stafford work needs to be shifted for lichfield and the 74/5
yea but no daytime 74/5s interwork i dont think somdeckers would be fine. its made today, its omnilink, full size Centros and a sb120 on 31/2/3 and bloody MPDs galore on the pye greens. Doesnt look like the Deckers out today :-(
its peaks which interwork yes daytime does not but the way Cannock allocate you would land up with a decker on the 825
This may well be the reason why little has happened since Arriva officially took over Midland on the 23rd Sept
http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=7187&categoryid=0
The Incontinence Commission strike again! Takeovers HAPPEN for feck's sake!
sconehead85
oh dear.....
Looks like bully's don't always get their own way lol
Quote from: A1991 on October 10, 2012, 08:53:27 AM
Looks like bully's don't always get their own way lol
Who's the bully? The former owner of Midland demanding money off Arriva? Referrals like just are just a complete waste of taxpayers money. The only thing the two companies were competing on was the price of tenders, and there are enough other companies who can bid if they want to
Another waste of tax payers money,ridiculous.
Does this mean Midland are staying how they are and no Arriva livery?
Quote from: s-m-991 on October 10, 2012, 09:47:57 AM
Does this mean Midland are staying how they are and no Arriva livery?
For now at least while the OFT are investigating, no doubt as soon as the findings are made if all is ok Arriva will proceed with plans for fleet replacement & absorbing the operating in to Arriva Midlands
Quote from: sconehead85 on October 10, 2012, 01:00:35 AM
The Incontinence Commission strike again! Takeovers HAPPEN for feck's sake!
sconehead85
Who actually raises the concern with the OFT in the first place to prompt an investigation? Could NXWM have used it as a tool to slow Arriva's advances down?
Probably as NXWM can't really buy anything themselves in the Midlands for the same reason, or do feel threatened but its another case sticking there nose on where they are not wanted it does not really affect the Market there is still competition between a variety of operators.
Why can the OFT get upset about an operator (Arriva) who currently operate less than 10% of services in the West Midlands acquiring an even less significant one, when they made no attempt to break up the huge monopoly of Coventry and the West Midlands that became TWM? A monopoly that will only be effectively competed with when another large group enters play, as is the situation already in every other large conurbation in the UK.
Far from protecting competitive practices the OFT are actually stifling them.
True a big competetor is needed the OFT are a bunch of numpties will try not to call them any other nasty names
With the competition bodies medalling in Stagecoach's agreed deal to buy First's Barnstable operation, its intervention actually did Stagecoach a big favour and saved them in excess of £2 million pounds, they have ended up cherry picking the best of First routes and still ended up with a monopoly on the town anyway........
Oft upset about nothing. Arriva now have 100% monoply in Cannock!
I wonder if the OFT may have concerns about the Tendered network the West Midlands as Midland and latterly Arriva have quite a large number of Tenders between them, so therefore in theory there is theory less competition for them.
Lol it would be ace if they were told they could keep Midland but had to sell Cannock garage as part of the deal ! haha id love it
Quote from: bob on October 10, 2012, 10:58:51 PM
Lol it would be ace if they were told they could keep Midland but had to sell Cannock garage as part of the deal ! haha id love it
To NX West Midlands as Travel Cannock?!
sconehead85
Na it should be something more upmarket like Cannock Chase -part of Nat Ex lol :-p
Quote from: sconehead85 on October 11, 2012, 08:04:50 PM
Quote from: bob on October 10, 2012, 10:58:51 PM
Lol it would be ace if they were told they could keep Midland but had to sell Cannock garage as part of the deal ! haha id love it
To NX West Midlands as Travel Cannock?!
sconehead85
Didn't TWM/NXWM come close to buying Arriva's Cannock operation at one point?
Dont be daft WHAT ON EARTH would Nxwm want with Arriva Cannock operations?
Didn't TWM/NXWM come close to buying Arriva's Cannock operation at one point?
[/quote] yes i seem to remember a lot of rumours to that effect a few years ago.Tony
Blimey I'd never heard of that before! Anyone think it could still happen now?
Nope if NXWM have any sense they will not go near it with a Barge pole for a fair while yet.
What makes you say that? id imagine at least some of the routes must be turning a profit, specially the Staffords?
Bloody hell are they any closer to getting the Arriva buses on the road yet? Any idea which if any Midland buses will survive? And also when was it that NXWM alledgedly 'came close' to buying Cannock's operations? It would've been ace if they had! Still,never say never
Quote from: bob on October 26, 2012, 11:47:31 PM
Bloody hell are they any closer to getting the Arriva buses on the road yet? Any idea which if any Midland buses will survive? And also when was it that NXWM alledgedly 'came close' to buying Cannock's operations? It would've been ace if they had! Still,never say never
Arriva have given undertakings to the OFT that no part of the Midland business will be changed until the results of its investigations are known, therefore knowing how long these things take it could be 2013 before there is any sign of Arriva branding / livery on the Midland fleet. This is why the Tamworth B6LE's have gone to Stafford & Cannock instead.
Can't remember the date that TWM came close to buying Arriva's Cannock operations, but I suspect it would have been pre the Chase takeover, Tony's probably your best man for that....
Would NXWM still be interested do you reckon? The Cannock operations cant be that much of a basket case. I think its bad that Arriva have absolutely no competition at all its not exactly encouraging them to raise their standards! The new buses on the 60 are ok as are the Staffords but the standard of the rest is horrific to be honest
If National Express took over Arriva Cannock, how long before Cannock was shut & operations transferred to Wolves & Walsall?
Alternatively would it be possible for NX to purchase land somewhere in South Staffs & build a 'super depot' to replace Cannock, Wolves & Walsall?
Its just speculation though, NXWM probably could take over Cannock but its probably quite unlikely. Im hoping they register some competing routes in the area though, as i said before if they competed on the Walsall/Wolves corridors theyd win hands down, and even on the 25/6
Quote from: bob on October 27, 2012, 01:00:44 AM
Would NXWM still be interested do you reckon? The Cannock operations cant be that much of a basket case. I think its bad that Arriva have absolutely no competition at all its not exactly encouraging them to raise their standards! The new buses on the 60 are ok as are the Staffords but the standard of the rest is horrific to be honest
Taking over Arriva Cannock is unlikely to happen now, NXWM registering competing services in to Cannock operated from Walsall garage is always an option, especially if Arriva launch new competing services on NXWM routes.
I think at the time TWM Walsall was gearing up to run the Cannock area routes
Quote from: Westy on October 27, 2012, 01:05:42 AM
If National Express took over Arriva Cannock, how long before Cannock was shut & operations transferred to Wolves & Walsall?
Alternatively would it be possible for NX to purchase land somewhere in South Staffs & build a 'super depot' to replace Cannock, Wolves & Walsall?
I understand the original intention was to operate Arriva's Cannock routes from TWM Walsall, but the deal never came off & is unlikely to happen now....
Acquiring a former First subsidiary/operation seems more likely currently
Pity, it wouldve been so much better for passengers if that had happened
Quote from: bob on October 27, 2012, 09:30:19 AM
Pity, it wouldve been so much better for passengers if that had happened
Yeah, I would still had NX down my road, instead of Arriva!
lol. With better buses and cheaper( £2.20 cheaper!!) Daysavers!
Better buses? Please do not think nxwm are perfect! The interior condition of some of there buses is nothing short of disguting. Heaters not working, thread bear dirty seats windows etched and other windows that have not been cleaned for weeks if not months! Rose tinted specs, dont sit well.
Quote from: andyr on October 27, 2012, 11:39:09 PM
Better buses? Please do not think nxwm are perfect! The interior condition of some of there buses is nothing short of disguting. Heaters not working, thread bear dirty seats windows etched and other windows that have not been cleaned for weeks if not months! Rose tinted specs, dont sit well.
That said, nxwm are actually refurbing their buses.
Refurbishing yes, but once the bus has been done there is no signs that there being looked after. its typical that a WA based B7 been on 89/01. After one round trip when i catch it the seats refurbed or not are covered in dust,dirt and filth and its obvious the floor and windows have mot been cleaned!
Quote from: andyr on October 28, 2012, 12:42:54 AM
Refurbishing yes, but once the bus has been done there is no signs that there being looked after. its typical that a WA based B7 been on 89/01. After one round trip when i catch it the seats refurbed or not are covered in dust,dirt and filth and its obvious the floor and windows have mot been cleaned!
The floors on all Walsall buses get cleaned every night. It would be very expensive to clean the inside of the windows and the seats every night. It takes 3 to 4 hours to do a full clean on a bus, that would mean about 90 cleaners per night, so would need a staff of about 120 to cover days off, holidays & sickness.
Quote from: Tony on October 28, 2012, 09:12:24 AM
Quote from: andyr on October 28, 2012, 12:42:54 AM
Refurbishing yes, but once the bus has been done there is no signs that there being looked after. its typical that a WA based B7 been on 89/01. After one round trip when i catch it the seats refurbed or not are covered in dust,dirt and filth and its obvious the floor and windows have mot been cleaned!
The floors on all Walsall buses get cleaned every night. It would be very expensive to clean the inside of the windows and the seats every night. It takes 3 to 4 hours to do a full clean on a bus, that would mean about 90 cleaners per night, so would need a staff of about 120 to cover days off, holidays & sickness.
This time of year, the floors of buses will get dirty very quickly especially if its wet & windows get dirty/marked as passengers wipe them when after they steam up
I dont just mean better quality interiors ( although compared with 3 of Cannocks SB120s, even the worst nxwm bus would look like a showbus) but mechanical maintanence wise, loads of cannocks buses have screeching brakes rattles and bangs, black smoke coming out the back and some reek of fumes at the back on the inside! I remember being on a B10BLE a couple of months back with masking tape holding one of the windows in!!!!
Quote from: bob on October 28, 2012, 11:47:25 AM
I dont just mean better quality interiors ( although compared with 3 of Cannocks SB120s, even the worst nxwm bus would look like a showbus) but mechanical maintanence wise, loads of cannocks buses have screeching brakes rattles and bangs, black smoke coming out the back and some reek of fumes at the back on the inside! I remember being on a B10BLE a couple of months back with masking tape holding one of the windows in!!!!
masking tape would not be holding a window in! masking tape wouldn't hold anything in, the point of it is it is easily removed. I suspect some painting or glueing had been done and the tape not removed.
Quote from: Tony on October 28, 2012, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: bob on October 28, 2012, 11:47:25 AM
I dont just mean better quality interiors ( although compared with 3 of Cannocks SB120s, even the worst nxwm bus would look like a showbus) but mechanical maintanence wise, loads of cannocks buses have screeching brakes rattles and bangs, black smoke coming out the back and some reek of fumes at the back on the inside! I remember being on a B10BLE a couple of months back with masking tape holding one of the windows in!!!!
masking tape would not be holding a window in! masking tape wouldn't hold anything in, the point of it is it is easily removed. I suspect some painting or glueing had been done and the tape not removed.
Would of most likely been black silicone covered with tape
On the subject of Cannocks fleet does anyone know if theres any truth in the rumours about the five 57 plate Stafford branded Sb200s being moved elsewhere???
I haven't seen 3727 for abit.........
ive noticed that there have been the odd unbranded bus on the 74/5 the last couple of weeks. I wonder if theyll move to another depot or be used to upgrade another Cannock service. Theyd be good for the 1
On staffords today there is 3728, 3729, 3731 and plaxton centro 3738 and I've not even seen 1 of them on pye greens today!! And 3oute 1 branded 3702 seems to of vanished from cannock, I've not seen it for about a week on route now......
3 to 4 hours to clean a bus! I think a time and motion study is needed Tony. Operators like Lothian have an immiculate fleet and your suggesting each of there buses takes 4 hours per night to prepare. We turn round 8 immeculate touring coaches in under 2 hours every Sunday night. Hand washed, bladed and chamiosed plus a full clean inside. Hoovered seats, seat back tables sanitised, kitchen fully cleaned and restocked, 4 hours on a bus?
Caught the 63 today. Still in Midland colours, but all the interior posters have been removed and replaced with the usual aquamarine Arriva posters. Solo; not sure if they just used to use different solos on the route but the chairs appeared to be different, more comfortable than the usual. I guess they might have just moved the buses around a bit. Same driver as usual.
No advertisements inside either.
Quote from: andyr on October 31, 2012, 11:54:17 PM
3 to 4 hours to clean a bus! I think a time and motion study is needed Tony. Operators like Lothian have an immiculate fleet and your suggesting each of there buses takes 4 hours per night to prepare. We turn round 8 immeculate touring coaches in under 2 hours every Sunday night. Hand washed, bladed and chamiosed plus a full clean inside. Hoovered seats, seat back tables sanitised, kitchen fully cleaned and restocked, 4 hours on a bus?
A touring coach after one days work or one tour is far easier to clean than a bus after a weeks work. I've cleaned a coach after arriving in depot when I used to work for Central Liner, and then cleaned a bus after V festival. I know which one was easier and quicker to do.
The coach also looked better after the quicker clean. The length of time it takes also depends on the quality of the clean. When a bus gets a 'special clean' it can easily take 4 hours
Unfortunatley Tony in this day and age people are treating our touring coaches with little or no respect. i can assure you the standard of our claening is second to none as of course is clear to see when one of our immaculate red tri-axle van hools is seen on the roads of the uk and europe. I also worked for Central Liner and the standard of the cleaning there with a few exceptions was very poor. The london liner fleet internally was a disgrace.
Quote from: andyr on November 04, 2012, 02:40:11 PM
Unfortunatley Tony in this day and age people are treating our touring coaches with little or no respect. i can assure you the standard of our claening is second to none as of course is clear to see when one of our immaculate red tri-axle van hools is seen on the roads of the uk and europe. I also worked for Central Liner and the standard of the cleaning there with a few exceptions was very poor. The london liner fleet internally was a disgrace.
I don't disagree with a word you have written there. Remember at Central the London Liners were cleaned by cleaners, the Central Liners generally by their drivers, and yes the London Liners were very poor. I took D932ODA down to the Southampton Coach Rally one year and spent the whole of the day before trying to get it presentable inside. It still wasn't as good as I had hoped for after a complete day. In contrast 245DOC was always kept in the condition your coaches are kept in now by George.
I would imagine that although your coaches are not treated with the respect touring coaches used to be treated with you still don't have to deal with some of the things bus cleaners have to deal with though like finding hyperdermic needles stuck down seats.
Tony your comparison is correct, but the thngs we find are getting more and more distgusting! Womens items in the wc being a major problem!!!! D932ODA, that brings back memories, lets hope that despite its now terrible condition it can be reunited with E906TOJ at Tamworth bus and coach. Terrys bova and Dennis van hool were also immaculate. Good times eh Tony.
Arriva 4778 with a midland sticker on the front operating the 19 service!!
Quote from: andyr on November 06, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
Arriva 4778 with a midland sticker on the front operating the 19 service!!
Interesting that. Still not sure why Wednesfield (Midland) need another decker.
Didnt Chase vehicles operate 'on hire' to Arriva?
How does this work legally?
Arriva could theorectically place vehicles 'on hire' to Midland.
Quote from: andyr on November 06, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
Arriva 4778 with a midland sticker on the front operating the 19 service!!
Does that mean the OFT are happy then?
Quote from: andy on November 06, 2012, 06:15:30 PM
Does that mean the OFT are happy then?
I would think that if the OFT had finished, then Midland would be re-named Arriva, and the Gemini would still have it's Arriva logo's, so the Gemini with Midland on it might mean that OFT have not finished yet, and Arriva are not allowed to incorporate Midland into the main Arriva brand.
4778 a Gemini? lol its a Daf ALX400! Id imagine its Cannock bound and temporary at Midland
Quote from: bob on November 06, 2012, 08:47:01 PM
4778 a Gemini? lol its a Daf ALX400! Id imagine its Cannock bound and temporary at Midland
Well I'm sorry Bob. I don't know Arriva Fleetnumbers and asummed it was the Gemini that was rumoured to be heading to Midland.
Yes, its an S reg DAF with ALX400 bodywork.
It was new somewhere between 08/98 and 02/99.
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/4778.html
Why should the takeover bother anyone? I like the extra Arriva presence in Walsall.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on November 06, 2012, 09:00:47 PM
Yes, its an S reg DAF with ALX400 bodywork.
It was new somewhere between 08/98 and 02/99.
http://www.wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/4778.html
Use that same link now and it will show you it with Midland names on!
Yellow on white?
Why not a standard yellow on red sticker?
Quote from: Westy on November 07, 2012, 09:25:17 PM
Yellow on white?
Why not a standard yellow on red sticker?
Did think that myself. Can barely see the letters!
It seems that a decision is expected from the oft on 14th January 2013.
Before i left the forum I saw the other deckers (midland named in arriva colours) due to OFT police but when leaving work I see 4 MPD darts fresh livery (interurban) and arriva named in yard all LJ51 plated only could make out 2151 fleet number. Have they been given the ok to merge them in. Bob is not going to be happy unless they are the cummins engined buses
On the WMbus group, information on there says they will not be used until it is cleared up in January.
They are -
2151 - LJ51 DAU
2153 - LJ51 DBV
2154 - LJ51 DBY
2155 - LJ51 DBZ
thats good at least its not shit from cannock but you will never know I hope not as Wednesfield deserve better buses not just worn out solos or clapped out older darts non cummins as being an ex cannock driver they are shit
All Darts are Cummins-engined.
I correct myself the non shit version cummins drove enough of the crappy mpd buses at Cannock
Noticed the newer MPD buses have had fare boxes put on. Is Wednesfield going to be an exact fare depot as this is not the Arriva thing like everywhere else in the UK or is there another reason like they do not trust us with money in the West Midlands even though Hill Top give change.
Will they accept Arriva Daysavers after January cos they dont at the minute even tho the timetables are on the Arriva website and it says Arriva on the legal lettering on the buses
What happens if the OFT doesn't give the go ahead for the merger?
I suppose 'Midland' will have to be sold, but would Arriva re-register the routes & operate them from a mixture of Cannock & Hill Top depots?
Maybe but would most of the routes be worth running? they wouldnt even fill a Transit minibus?
Quote from: Westy on December 24, 2012, 03:28:48 PM
What happens if the OFT doesn't give the go ahead for the merger?
I suppose 'Midland' will have to be sold, but would Arriva re-register the routes & operate them from a mixture of Cannock & Hill Top depots?
I can't see why it wouldn't get given the go ahead to proceed with the takeover.
I don't see why it was even referred in the first place, worst case scenario Arriva may have to give some undertakings
I wonder if its a possibility that they could be told to sell off one of their garages to keep the Midland operation, and if they did which one would they sell? My money would be on Stafford if they had to get rid of one, i couldnt see them ever selling Delta Way operation
Quote from: bob on December 24, 2012, 04:51:08 PM
I wonder if its a possibility that they could be told to sell off one of their garages to keep the Midland operation, and if they did which one would they sell? My money would be on Stafford if they had to get rid of one, i couldnt see them ever selling Delta Way operation
Doubt it, Midland isn't that big an operation and the majority of it operates within the WM county. Would have thought it would be undertakings at most on certain routes / fares within Staffs that may also include some currently operated by Arriva Midlands
Quote from: Winston on December 24, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: Westy on December 24, 2012, 03:28:48 PM
What happens if the OFT doesn't give the go ahead for the merger?
I suppose 'Midland' will have to be sold, but would Arriva re-register the routes & operate them from a mixture of Cannock & Hill Top depots?
I can't see why it wouldn't get given the go ahead to proceed with the takeover.
I don't see why it was even referred in the first place, worst case scenario Arriva may have to give some undertakings
According to rumour Winston NXWM moaned to OFT as they could not buy anything being too big and Arriva should not have it as they have aquired 2 operators already chase and green bus whom operated in the West Mids. OFT saw no problem as Arriva are not a huge concern in the West Mids or have a big market but refererred themselves to show all is above board . If its true Winston I cannot see why NXWM are concerned there is plenty of scope for another larger operator its not as if NXWM could not take on Arriva they could with ease and have already beaten them in Walsall and on the Burntwood routes also most of the work Arriva have is tendered anyway (not Including the Midland routes or cross county runs). Delta way does not make that much money if delta way had to go most of the long distance stuff could eaisily be run from Stafford and interworked like Tamworth do with 112,765 eg 76/70 and 60/825 as now with a half hour service on 76 and 74/5 running into cannock and doing locals with Walsall stuff run by Wednesfield
What does 'undertakings at most' mean? They might have to stop operating certain routes into the West Midlands?
May be deregister or not register any routes for a period of time or sell it off it just have to see what OFT say agree with Winston can't see why OFT are involved
Wonder wot theyd deregister, would it have to be a Midland route or 1 of there existing, like the 560, or the 1 or 70 etc
560 deffo runs on fresh air or wrinklies or the 10 to give NX free reign
Damn i was hopin itd be Cannock to Walsall services, least we'd get a bit of variety then
Quote from: Discodave on December 24, 2012, 06:46:13 PM
Quote from: Winston on December 24, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
Quote from: Westy on December 24, 2012, 03:28:48 PM
What happens if the OFT doesn't give the go ahead for the merger?
I suppose 'Midland' will have to be sold, but would Arriva re-register the routes & operate them from a mixture of Cannock & Hill Top depots?
I can't see why it wouldn't get given the go ahead to proceed with the takeover.
I don't see why it was even referred in the first place, worst case scenario Arriva may have to give some undertakings
According to rumour Winston NXWM moaned to OFT as they could not buy anything being too big and Arriva should not have it as they have aquired 2 operators already chase and green bus whom operated in the West Mids. OFT saw no problem as Arriva are not a huge concern in the West Mids or have a big market but refererred themselves to show all is above board . If its true Winston I cannot see why NXWM are concerned there is plenty of scope for another larger operator its not as if NXWM could not take on Arriva they could with ease and have already beaten them in Walsall and on the Burntwood routes also most of the work Arriva have is tendered anyway (not Including the Midland routes or cross county runs). Delta way does not make that much money if delta way had to go most of the long distance stuff could eaisily be run from Stafford and interworked like Tamworth do with 112,765 eg 76/70 and 60/825 as now with a half hour service on 76 and 74/5 running into cannock and doing locals with Walsall stuff run by Wednesfield
Discodave,
Thanks for that, hadn't heard that it may have been NXWM that had complained to the OFT, tbh if the OFT have had no issues with the takeover of Midland when first announced, why are they still bothering to go to the time/expense of investigating the takeover, I don't see the point..... Even with that deal going ahead Arriva will still only be relatively small in the West Midlands, as you say most of it being tendered work. The only monopoly Arriva will have is on their traditional patch of Cannock / Lichfield etc. Whether it was aimed to be a stalling tack tick by NXWM or to fire one across Arriva's bow, we'll probably never know.... I don't personally think Arriva are too much of a threat based on what we have seen to date, however, they are now headed by a former TWM/NXWM man Alex Perry, so who knows what future plans they may/may not have. The days of bus wars appear to have long gone which is unfortunate, as it would have made things more interesting for a while.
Rotala are of little threat to NXWM, as they seem to be retrenching left, right & centre, De Courcey have done well off the back of their contract losses also. Rotala seem to have lost all their fight & simply don't have the finances to take NXWM on properly. If Arriva were to acquire the full Diamond WM business off Rotala, that would at least give them a number of established commercial services, scale & a platform to expand from, that said Arriva generally don't come across as being that aggressive with fellow big groups. Stagecoach would be a different story, but they have had numerous opportunities to set-up in the West Midlands, Brian Souter's heart seems to be set upon NXWM or nothing.....
P.s - Hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas!!! ;)
Thanks Winston hit the nail on the head About the new boss maybe he may put the fight into arriva wonder though if the oft would put there noses in if Rotals were to sell the West Midland operations would make things interesting though
and thanks for your view and also Merry Christmas
The OFT investigation has nothing to do with NXWM, that was merely a rumour that got out of hand.
Well its funny the deal was as good as done then OFT like already said Arriva have no monopoly only in there own areas Staffs/Shrops and the true fact is Arriva put themselves to the OFT so must be trying to appease someone
Not disputing OFT involvement or the fact that it was a Third Party referral, but it was not Nat Ex.
fair enough but does anyone else have anything to gain if oft say no nobody else could really challange NXWM its only them who will gain
It is not necessarily another bus operator.
Cant see why the OFT would rule against arriva I think personally they should be encouraging more competition against NX. Really hope arriva get it and hope they do a good job with it, they certainly will need to have a decent amount of spending buses as the Midland depot buses are quite old and run down. Hope to see some more Enviro200's coming in but cant understand why they wont more double deckers unless there is plans for new routes our something? what do you think the deckers would go on?
Probably the number 10 they seem to be busy at some times
Solo broke down in Sutton this morning on the 105, Lol...
Wonder how much of the Midland fleet will be kept after the takeover, considering its 90% ( probably more) tat lol
I saw S2 CLA Optare Excel in Dudley Bus Station today with digi blinds fitted I dunno if this is relevent but I thought it was withdrawn
Jesus theyre never keepin that surely? lol! I think the P & R reg Darts and Older Solo's will go cos theyre contemporary with the buses Arriva are now starting to withdraw but the question is what will replace em?
Quote from: richie on December 31, 2012, 01:42:19 PM
I saw S2 CLA Optare Excel in Dudley Bus Station today with digi blinds fitted I dunno if this is relevent but I thought it was withdrawn
It's been in service again for a few weeks now, usually on route 10 Wolverhampton-Perton.
With the digi-blinds, it received them at the same time as the rest of the fleet when they had the repaint and new seat covers.
Actually, it never came off the road since being resurrected a few years back and neither has it had the seats re-trimmed (just the floor refitted).
It received the Mobitec blind over a year ago.
Itll be dead interesting to see what Arriva move over to Wednesfield, maybe some of Cannocks smaller buses will go over, i wonder what theyll keep as well. The B6s are staying at Stafford so they definatly arent gonna be going
There are more refurbished MPDs due initially.
Any idea how many altogether? i was hoping Cannocks entire fleet of MPDs or at least most of them would go over
12. Unlikely.
Damn i was hoping the worst of Cannocks fleet would go to Midland where it would fit in :-///
I wonder which will be the first Midland services to get the chop?
Im interested to see how Arriva will manage the wednesfield depot. Im wondering whether they will have duty managers and relief duty managers as at all the other Arriva depots, anyone know??
Also if its MPD Darts theyre transferring in, that wouldnt suggest they were planning to be running any busy services
Quote from: bob on January 01, 2013, 06:05:28 PM
Also if its MPD Darts theyre transferring in, that wouldnt suggest they were planning to be running any busy services
But the current fleet is not made up of 12 buses is it?
Think before you comment.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 01, 2013, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: bob on January 01, 2013, 06:05:28 PM
Also if its MPD Darts theyre transferring in, that wouldnt suggest they were planning to be running any busy services
But the current fleet is not made up of 12 buses is it?
Think before you comment.
Put it this way there not transferring in bendybuses or double deckers so we can assume as Bob says that there are no plans to operate any busier services planning to operate buses any larger than what midland already has which from my observations of midland, transits would probably do most of the time. Honestly, the people at Deutsche Bahn must look and think why the hell would arriva want to buy this company??!! Id say that in terms of vehicles, the current fleet is on a par with VIP at best and even VIP has far newer MPDs than Midland. Yes, midland may be well run but they dont really score in terms of vehicle quality and Im sure many enthusiasts find it frankly insulting that these naf old solos display the same fleetname as that worn by Midland red several years ago.
The introduction of the first "Arriva" buses is to commence gradual replacement of the fleet.
A number of refurbished MPDs are available which suitably replace similar but admittedly older vehicles.
There are no conspiracies about intentions to reduce the number of larger vehicles.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 01, 2013, 08:02:13 PM
The introduction of the first "Arriva" buses is to commence gradual replacement of the fleet.
A number of refurbished MPDs are available which suitably replace similar but admittedly older vehicles.
There are no conspiracies about intentions to reduce the number of larger vehicles.
I asked about in another post about the cashboxes going on the newer Arriva branded MPD buses this is not an Arriva thing like elsewhere (give change) will this spread to hill top whom give change if the company is being absorbed why are cash boxes being put on. Unless the plan is all buses which are operated fully in the West Mids will be exact fare.
Is the decision expected tomorrow still? I wonder what service changes etc can be expected?? I heard the 33 & 68 Cannock services will be transferring to Wednesfield
Quote from: s-m-991 on November 07, 2012, 08:31:16 PM
Why should the takeover bother anyone? I like the extra Arriva presence in Walsall.
The oft seem to have the problem can't see why it could be classed as a monopoly NXWM are the biggrest operator not Arriva in the West Midlands
Quote from: Discodave on January 13, 2013, 11:20:19 AM
Quote from: s-m-991 on November 07, 2012, 08:31:16 PM
Why should the takeover bother anyone? I like the extra Arriva presence in Walsall.
The oft seem to have the problem can't see why it could be classed as a monopoly NXWM are the biggrest operator not Arriva in the West Midlands
I guess it all depends on who & why they asked the Oft to investigate
Quote from: bob on January 13, 2013, 11:12:50 AM
Is the decision expected tomorrow still? I wonder what service changes etc can be expected?? I heard the 33 & 68 Cannock services will be transferring to Wednesfield
Nothing I reckon will be immediate they will need to look at timetables as if some are changing it would make sense to start/finish services closest to depot the 33 does not most finish in cannock or hednesford odd one in brownhills at night. The 560 would be a good one and a timetable change like I suggested so it does not run on fresh air behind the 89 and put the 70 on its own or make the 76 half hourly so it could still be interworked.
True
Thing is though Bob remember they do the 62 and 23 so it may be solos coming to cannock just as bad as the MPD (b series engined buses)
caught the 2 to walsall & back last night, 53 plate MPD There, 52 plate back. Both had filthy threadbare seats & the one on the way back rattled and shook (sk52 mle) and made a strange whining vibrating noise as it accelerated, the driver said it was one of the better ones cos theyd complained & complained until it got a new gearbox. Jesus
Oh and the 53 plate on the way there had no heating
Quote from: bob on January 13, 2013, 11:12:50 AM
Is the decision expected tomorrow still? I wonder what service changes etc can be expected?? I heard the 33 & 68 Cannock services will be transferring to Wednesfield
The decision date was moved from the 14th to the 21st by the oft so we wont be hearing any news I expect
If it goes ahead i wonder how much of the Midland fleet will survive & be repainted into Arriva livery? Not many id imagine, given that most of Midlands fleet are old clapped out shedsk
Old clapped out sheds. . . Perfect for cannock then. ;D
Quote from: Martin Morris (Autistic.) on January 13, 2013, 02:37:26 PM
Old clapped out sheds. . . Perfect for cannock then. ;D
Another person with sense to see Cannocks fleet for what it is not just the odd few New buses.
I have posted elsewhere is there any decision was supposed to be today if it will be absorbed or anyting has to go to absorb it.
The decision is expected by the 21st according to the OFT website
So will we definately find out on Monday the outcome of the Oft investigation into the Midland takeover? Makes me laugh how they can investigate Arriva moving into the Midlands, where there are quite a few different operators, yet Arriva can have an ( as yet) completely unchallenged monopoly in Cannock and therefore provide as crap and expensive service as they like? Oft ought to make them offload some services entering the WM from Staffordshire, that would make things a bit more varied...
Quote from: bob on January 18, 2013, 06:20:42 PM
So will we definately find out on Monday the outcome of the Oft investigation into the Midland takeover? Makes me laugh how they can investigate Arriva moving into the Midlands, where there are quite a few different operators, yet Arriva can have an ( as yet) completely unchallenged monopoly in Cannock and therefore provide as crap and expensive service as they like? Oft ought to make them offload some services entering the WM from Staffordshire, that would make things a bit more varied...
Is the investigation into Arriva moving in to the West Midlands? - or is it the fact that Midland are the only other operator in Cannock?
I didnt think it had anything to do with the Cannock side of things?
But, by the same token, who said it had anything to do with moving into the West Midlands?
Well we'll see wont we, if it was due to them having a monopoly in Cannock then thats a good thing right? But if they recommend no action and nothing. changes then its a total waste of time and taxpayers money
Quote from: Tony on January 18, 2013, 10:06:46 PM
Quote from: bob on January 18, 2013, 06:20:42 PM
So will we definately find out on Monday the outcome of the Oft investigation into the Midland takeover? Makes me laugh how they can investigate Arriva moving into the Midlands, where there are quite a few different operators, yet Arriva can have an ( as yet) completely unchallenged monopoly in Cannock and therefore provide as crap and expensive service as they like? Oft ought to make them offload some services entering the WM from Staffordshire, that would make things a bit more varied...
Is the investigation into Arriva moving in to the West Midlands? - or is it the fact that Midland are the only other operator in Cannock?
Thats a good one as looking at the past buying chase (no competetion in staffordshire as were on 860 and 1) and putting on 68 and 69 to knock out green bus now buying Midland taking out competition for tendered work on the 23,62 etc which Arriva once ran and lost due to tendering (23) or like the 62 they wanted a tender but SCC did not provide so it was took off tendered to Midland now Arriva could possibly have it. Monopoly so maybe good West Mids side but with regards to staffordshire Arriva are dominant just like NXWM you have to take into account not just Cannock but Tamworth,Telford,Stafford and even Wardle look how big they are may be spread out but still covers a huge area.
Quote from: Discodave on January 14, 2013, 11:05:31 AM
Quote from: Martin Morris (Autistic.) on January 13, 2013, 02:37:26 PM
Old clapped out sheds. . . Perfect for cannock then. ;D
Another person with sense to see Cannocks fleet for what it is not just the odd few New buses.
Please don't encourage him Martin ;D
True though, my mate was telling me apparently most of Midlands fleet were nails, and that came from a driver! But you wouldnt need to take the drivers word for it just look at the state of the fleet. Old Solo's are going to be sheds arent they, same for Darts
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:22:04 PM
True though, my mate was telling me apparently most of Midlands fleet were nails, and that came from a driver! But you wouldnt need to take the drivers word for it just look at the state of the fleet. Old Solo's are going to be sheds arent they, same for Darts
Oh I can't disagree there, the fleet is a mixed bag of tat...
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Which begs the question why did Arriva buy it??!! I do agree though about Midland's fleet
I must admit even though I hardly caught Choice Travel, I was impressed with what I saw, especially when TWM went on strike in the 90's & Choice did cover them on a few routes ISTR(I remember them on the 319!)
A2Z, after showing early promise(the 50p off the bus pass for instance) gradually detrioated & I suppose, the problems they had, it was no surprise Choice got their hands on them.
Despite a rename to Midland, the good name of Choice, I feel, got dragged down by the A2Z addition.
You may remember not long after the takeover, an A2Z bus was involved in an accident in Blakenall.
(I believe one of the managers of A2Z joined Midland at that point. Whether this was a factor in events, I dont know. People in the industry or have more knowledge than me, may know more)
That is my view as a long time bus user of over 30 years experience.
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Bob,
I rarely reply to your posts as they are usually of this nature.
Having been involved with the company through several different lines of management - many of which, I accept, have not been what you and I would consider to be "bus people" - I cannot accept your misguided opinions backed up with no real fact. I have strived to bring an element of local understanding and professionalism to a budget-restricted operation with a tired fleet and, although the final product when Arriva moved in was short of what I would want, I do feel the company has come a long way from the later days when Choice merged with A2Z.
The recent takeover by Arriva has provided the largest window of opportunity this company has ever faced and, together with representatives from that organisation and new professionals brought in to the organisation, we intend to develop the business without the restrictive budgetary and, granted, professional constraints.
Your tiresome, slanderous comments, I feel, are unjustified given that nothing has happened yet because, largely, it cannot until the OFT has made its decision. Please stop questioning the professionalism of a worldwide organisation that has acquired a local company for a valid reason and runs its existing businesses not perfectly - but to the best of its ability. Local people are involved with this project and so it is unfair and ill-informed to suggest that the local people we serve are not kept in mind.
Wow a man who speaks sense!! I dont think choice have ever been terrible I complete understand about tue fleet and I think they have done a good uob with what they uad. We shouod be encouraging competition in the west midlands ok cannock is different but we need someone to stand up to national and prove to them there not god, hope arriva taking on choice will do a better job than what rotala are currently doing.
Finally network west midlands wont be network national express and will actually have a bigger presense by others!!
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 19, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Bob,
I rarely reply to your posts as they are usually of this nature.
Having been involved with the company through several different lines of management - many of which, I accept, have not been what you and I would consider to be "bus people" - I cannot accept your misguided opinions backed up with no real fact. I have strived to bring an element of local understanding and professionalism to a budget-restricted operation with a tired fleet and, although the final product when Arriva moved in was short of what I would want, I do feel the company has come a long way from the later days when Choice merged with A2Z.
The recent takeover by Arriva has provided the largest window of opportunity this company has ever faced and, together with representatives from that organisation and new professionals brought in to the organisation, we intend to develop the business without the restrictive budgetary and, granted, professional constraints.
Your tiresome, slanderous comments, I feel, are unjustified given that nothing has happened yet because, largely, it cannot until the OFT has made its decision. Please stop questioning the professionalism of a worldwide organisation that has acquired a local company for a valid reason and runs its existing businesses not perfectly - but to the best of its ability. Local people are involved with this project and so it is unfair and ill-informed to suggest that the local people we serve are not kept in mind.
Well said, I agree with you 100%. I think Midland have done a great job, like you said on a restricted budget. I think with Arriva support the wednesfield operation will go along way, I hope to be part of it in the near future should positions become available
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 19, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Bob,
I rarely reply to your posts as they are usually of this nature.
Having been involved with the company through several different lines of management - many of which, I accept, have not been what you and I would consider to be "bus people" - I cannot accept your misguided opinions backed up with no real fact. I have strived to bring an element of local understanding and professionalism to a budget-restricted operation with a tired fleet and, although the final product when Arriva moved in was short of what I would want, I do feel the company has come a long way from the later days when Choice merged with A2Z.
The recent takeover by Arriva has provided the largest window of opportunity this company has ever faced and, together with representatives from that organisation and new professionals brought in to the organisation, we intend to develop the business without the restrictive budgetary and, granted, professional constraints.
Your tiresome, slanderous comments, I feel, are unjustified given that nothing has happened yet because, largely, it cannot until the OFT has made its decision. Please stop questioning the professionalism of a worldwide organisation that has acquired a local company for a valid reason and runs its existing businesses not perfectly - but to the best of its ability. Local people are involved with this project and so it is unfair and ill-informed to suggest that the local people we serve are not kept in mind.
'a window of opportunity'?? Look what happened when they took over chase? Also if the level of 'investment' involves 11 yr old ex london ( and probably clapped out) 23 seat mpd darts, well... Arriva's cannock fleet ( not all but mostly) is as ive said many times before tired and badly maintained and they ( a lot of the time) run far to small buses on interurban routes...
And given the fact that apart from a couple of deckers on one Wolverhampton route you dont run any more full sized buses or services that would warrant one i cant really see what sort of platform for expansion Arriva have got? Or how much of a presence it will give them...
To be honest when it was choice (the blue/white) they were quite shitty buses, the regular driver on the 23 had so much shit off passengers when it broke down and the same bus (P134MEH) would always brake down, and there's a solo that's often used on the 23 a regular for breaking down and needs a quick paint very soon I think its W298EYG all faded n shit
As mentioned I think judgment should be passed after the oft have made there decision and arriva can or can't put there plans into operation. But if there intention is to compete directly with NX they do need a higher level of investment than refurbished London stock and be prepared that the dominant operator with around 80% market share and increasing are going to have a lot of fight in them and probably the largest private market share in one area.
Quote from: dannygill on January 19, 2013, 08:49:41 PM
Wow a man who speaks sense!! I dont think choice have ever been terrible I complete understand about tue fleet and I think they have done a good uob with what they uad. We shouod be encouraging competition in the west midlands ok cannock is different but we need someone to stand up to national and prove to them there not god, hope arriva taking on choice will do a better job than what rotala are currently doing.
Finally network west midlands wont be network national express and will actually have a bigger presense by others!!
What is rotala doing wrong danny as this comment is relating to diamond/wessex red/preston and all their operations. Not saying your comment is wrong or right just interested to what they could do to improve 'their better job' as well as what their currently doing wrong. I suppose similar to Midland now when rotala brought the diamond operation the fleet wasn't brilliant and i think the newest bus was on a 02/52 reg but they do the best as they are on a tight budget.
Quote from: richie on January 19, 2013, 10:15:52 PM
As mentioned I think judgment should be passed after the oft have made there decision and arriva can or can't put there plans into operation. But if there intention is to compete directly with NX they do need a higher level of investment than refurbished London stock and be prepared that the dominant operator with around 80% market share and increasing are going to have a lot of fight in them and probably the largest private market share in one area.
I'm not so sure Arriva will increase competition against NX now even once the Midland deal finally goes through, they could have launched new competing services from their West Bromwich garage if they had wanted too. Arriva traditionally aren't as aggressive as say Stagecoach when it comes to taking on one of the big boys......
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 19, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Bob,
I rarely reply to your posts as they are usually of this nature.
Having been involved with the company through several different lines of management - many of which, I accept, have not been what you and I would consider to be "bus people" - I cannot accept your misguided opinions backed up with no real fact. I have strived to bring an element of local understanding and professionalism to a budget-restricted operation with a tired fleet and, although the final product when Arriva moved in was short of what I would want, I do feel the company has come a long way from the later days when Choice merged with A2Z.
The recent takeover by Arriva has provided the largest window of opportunity this company has ever faced and, together with representatives from that organisation and new professionals brought in to the organisation, we intend to develop the business without the restrictive budgetary and, granted, professional constraints.
Your tiresome, slanderous comments, I feel, are unjustified given that nothing has happened yet because, largely, it cannot until the OFT has made its decision. Please stop questioning the professionalism of a worldwide organisation that has acquired a local company for a valid reason and runs its existing businesses not perfectly - but to the best of its ability. Local people are involved with this project and so it is unfair and ill-informed to suggest that the local people we serve are not kept in mind.
Also Arriva run to the best of their ability??? Yes in some areas Tamworth, etc they are pretty good, but Cannock? Good God they run it really REALLY badly, not to the best of their abilities at all! Branded buses off route EVERY SINGLE DAY, Small buses designed for minibus services put on busy interurban routes creating an unpleasant experience for passengers, filthy threadbare interiors, buses which are so badly maintained they have jerking gearboxes rattles bangs weird noises and god knows what. The way it is run is a joke.... I dont think anyone could, hand on heart in all honestly say that Cannock operations are run to the best of Arriva's ability...
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 19, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: bob on January 19, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
Definately, and the cheek to be all over red with Midland on! midland red would turn in their grave lol seein that shower of s**t attemptin to emulate it!
Bob,
I rarely reply to your posts as they are usually of this nature.
Having been involved with the company through several different lines of management - many of which, I accept, have not been what you and I would consider to be "bus people" - I cannot accept your misguided opinions backed up with no real fact. I have strived to bring an element of local understanding and professionalism to a budget-restricted operation with a tired fleet and, although the final product when Arriva moved in was short of what I would want, I do feel the company has come a long way from the later days when Choice merged with A2Z.
The recent takeover by Arriva has provided the largest window of opportunity this company has ever faced and, together with representatives from that organisation and new professionals brought in to the organisation, we intend to develop the business without the restrictive budgetary and, granted, professional constraints.
Your tiresome, slanderous comments, I feel, are unjustified given that nothing has happened yet because, largely, it cannot until the OFT has made its decision. Please stop questioning the professionalism of a worldwide organisation that has acquired a local company for a valid reason and runs its existing businesses not perfectly - but to the best of its ability. Local people are involved with this project and so it is unfair and ill-informed to suggest that the local people we serve are not kept in mind.
Lets hope Arriva make a go of it and be able to keep the good name you say but how can you call poor allocation of vehicles (branded buses on everything apart from the route they are on) professional. I have recently been promoted to a traffic manager and I have to allocate vehicles to runs. I may work for a well known French Haulage firm with red lorries but we work on behalf of a lot of major customers whom have like Arriva and other bus companies have liveried vehicles like branded buses and MUST be put onto that customers run. We have in case of shortages generic red lorries which can be used anywhere. What sort of an image would it make if I drove into a customers yard with a competetors liveried vehicle lets just say a few drivers jobs would go and possibly any chance of getting other contracts would be slim. I have approched Arriva about this via facebook and so have many others and the reply is still there and support my view to this point.
Looking at past takeover performance Arriva have been well rubbish, and with what has arrived so far 4 refurbished buses small MPD ones shows they do not really want to give it a go (I may be wrong) more larger replacements may come over. Cannock has had some investment but not as large as garages like Tamworth, Telford. Some of Bobs points are right with regards to interurban routes and some interior quality but they are cleaner than NXWM I am afraid it is a fact, but you can tell they are maintained to a cost and with the facilities Cannock have I cannot see why even though they have an older fleet mainly it is not maintained the best. For a world wide organisation which makes a lot of money why are some areas left behind.
Quote from: Winston on January 19, 2013, 11:38:38 PM
Quote from: richie on January 19, 2013, 10:15:52 PM
As mentioned I think judgment should be passed after the oft have made there decision and arriva can or can't put there plans into operation. But if there intention is to compete directly with NX they do need a higher level of investment than refurbished London stock and be prepared that the dominant operator with around 80% market share and increasing are going to have a lot of fight in them and probably the largest private market share in one area.
I'm not so sure Arriva will increase competition against NX now even once the Midland deal finally goes through, they could have launched new competing services from their West Bromwich garage if they had wanted too. Arriva traditionally aren't as aggressive as say Stagecoach when it comes to taking on one of the big boys......
Arriva try not to tread on the big boys toes but NXWM will not care about that they will fight until they are driven out unless NWM force co operation or co ordinated times etc but this would never happen or be hard to agree except on recent reviews like the 4/4H/4M and 10 in Wolverhampton the 301 could do with this sort of arrangement 3 or 4 buses running together either operator solves nothing but chaos along the route espically when the 302 kicks in at Bloxwich and the bus station we do not want anyone else hurt at the station.
Outcome of the OFT known yet??
Looks like its been cleared
Quote from: trainbasher on January 21, 2013, 12:31:54 PM
Looks like its been cleared
Great!
The 3 remaining Arriva MPDs at Wednesfield can enter service and the DAFs can operate without the Midland stickers.
All clearance given it will be interesting to see what happens now
As of today do Midland bus services accept Arriva Midlands Daysavers then??
No, that sort of thing doesn't happen immediately.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on January 21, 2013, 12:44:01 PM
Quote from: trainbasher on January 21, 2013, 12:31:54 PM
Looks like its been cleared
Great!
The 3 remaining Arriva MPDs at Wednesfield can enter service and the DAFs can operate without the Midland stickers.
2154 is due back Saturday and 2152 has been collected now, so there are 5 at present.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 21, 2013, 07:29:20 PM
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on January 21, 2013, 12:44:01 PM
Quote from: trainbasher on January 21, 2013, 12:31:54 PM
Looks like its been cleared
Great!
The 3 remaining Arriva MPDs at Wednesfield can enter service and the DAFs can operate without the Midland stickers.
2154 is due back Saturday and 2152 has been collected now, so there are 5 at present.
Another 6 have arrived in the Midlands fleet now, 2156-62, 2156-61 are as yet unallocated, 2162 has been allocated to Burton. They will appear on the fleetlist on the main site along with other recent changes tonight
We are also due 2133, 2218, 2284 and 2288.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 21, 2013, 07:47:42 PM
We are also due 2133, 2218, 2284 and 2288.
All just put to reserve from Burton. Just to please Bob 2284 and 2288 were both new to Cannock on the Pye Greens!
Will any of Cannocks MPDs be joining them? Would be nice to see the back of the horrid things! Vile
I remember the V-KDA darts on the Pye Greens, it quickly became apparent that they werent big enough. I wonder if the takeover will result in any review of Cannock based services, about time there was a revamp. There are, according to the express & star changes planned for the 68 service to improve it, what they will be i dont know, cant see that theres much they could do to it
Quote from: bob on January 21, 2013, 08:52:02 PM
Will any of Cannocks MPDs be joining them? Would be nice to see the back of the horrid things! Vile
Does every thread have to resort to Cannock bashing?
I saw a VDL SB200 with leicester branding in Wolverhampton yesterday.
Quote from: Ashley on January 22, 2013, 10:05:35 AM
I saw a VDL SB200 with leicester branding in Wolverhampton yesterday.
I saw it by me on the 560 so being used at Cannock at the moment by the way it looks.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 21, 2013, 07:47:42 PM
We are also due 2133, 2218, 2284 and 2288.
Yes I have seen the new buses in the Yard but still only small ones apart from the decker are they going to have some larger ones. Its a good start but are Arriva going to show they mean business and not just another garage running tendered (apart from the 10). They have a good base to start expanding if they are interested.
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
Quote from: Discodave on January 22, 2013, 11:21:07 AM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 21, 2013, 07:47:42 PM
We are also due 2133, 2218, 2284 and 2288.
Yes I have seen the new buses in the Yard but still only small ones apart from the decker are they going to have some larger ones. Its a good start but are Arriva going to show they mean business and not just another garage running tendered (apart from the 10). They have a good base to start expanding if they are interested.
I'd be surprised if Arriva launch any significant new commercial services against NXWM, I'm still expecting them to try & acquire Rotala Plc in full / or just the Diamond business and expand that way, I think that would result in less of a reaction from NXWM, a bus war would be nice, but those days appear to be long gone....
Will be interesting to see which of the Midland fleet survive, anyone know which buses are for the chop? Id imagine the Solo's & ex A2Z Darts would be on the way out
Not necessarily the Solos or ex-A2Z stock (although the Marshalls are diminishing), as with most moves of this nature, everything is associated with cost - so if something goes bang and requires a significant amount for repair, needless to say, it won't be repaired!
Of course, anything in old age and with MOT expiry looming is also likely to face the chop.
2561 is heading to Shrewsbury after refurb.
Am I mad to hope for something Arriva livery appearing tomorrow morning in Stourbridge?
You might get lucky, I want the newer stuff put to use where it's needed (i.e further away). There is only 2151 in use at the moment though.
Are there any plans to remove the midland name off the buses and replace with Arriva in the mean time?
Are you expecting any vehicles from Cannock at all?
The outgoing names will be covered at some point, yes.
No vehicles from Cannock initially, just those mentioned further up in this post from Burton and reserve.
do you know if the 23/62/810 will move to Cannock?
Not all of those, no.
That would make sense though surely? Maybe there'll be some service revisions too
Does anybody know when the services will move garages and will there be changes
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Another 11 services plus 2 part-commercial services.
2152 on the 63 saw it in Wednesfield this afternoon
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
The 9 and the 334
Quote from: 4006 (Not NEL 111P) on January 23, 2013, 08:14:03 PM
2152 on the 63 saw it in Wednesfield this afternoon
63 and 64 always seem to be nearly empty, and they usually get Solos. Don't know why they're putting one of their best buses, somehow a 12 year old MPD on the route.
If a 12 yr old MPD is a 'best bus'....Theyre going to have to invest in the future if they want to have a serious presence in the West Midlands...
Nearly all Arriva fleets have large numbers of pre-2000 Dennis Darts, for which there is no known Arriva replacement order bar 50 Optare Versas. I reckon at least 500 pre -2000 Darts of MPD or regular length need replacing. Not to forget the step-entry single decks Arriva Midlands are hanging on to.
sconehead85
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 23, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Another 11 services plus 2 part-commercial services.
Never knew they were that many see why Arriva are now the owner.
Quote from: sconehead85 on January 24, 2013, 12:04:09 AM
Nearly all Arriva fleets have large numbers of pre-2000 Dennis Darts, for which there is no known Arriva replacement order bar 50 Optare Versas. I reckon at least 500 pre -2000 Darts of MPD or regular length need replacing. Not to forget the step-entry single decks Arriva Midlands are hanging on to.
sconehead85
The thing is they are still refubishing the things come on Arriva stop recycling tat and replace them with something decent the amount spent on them you could have replaced the lot other Arriva areas have been investing E200's are not the answer or Versas Mercedes have put out a short wheel base citaro at the bus and coach show buy some of them for MPD replacements as like Tamworth you have a longer wheel base version for longer routes or busy ones and some volvos like NXWM show you mean business Mr ex NX mananging director.
Other than the Ex London MPDs ( which have got the old type Cummins engine Discodave im sure youll be pleased to know lol) are there any other buses expected? And any plans to keep the Darts/Solos and repaint them? Could swap some MPDs for B6s at Stafford
Quote from: bob on January 25, 2013, 03:58:40 PM
Other than the Ex London MPDs ( which have got the old type Cummins engine Discodave im sure youll be pleased to know lol) are there any other buses expected? And any plans to keep the Darts/Solos and repaint them? Could swap some MPDs for B6s at Stafford
Yes - have already mentioned buses due other than ex-London MPDs.
A repaint programme will commence at some point.
No sorry i meant any more from other Arriva fleets, i know about the extra Darts from the midlands :)
Not yet.
Quote from: Discodave on January 24, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 23, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Another 11 services plus 2 part-commercial services.
Never knew they were that many see why Arriva are now the owner.
Just out of curiousity, what are the other commercial routes operated by Midland? I believe some are the 9, 10, 19, 33 & 334 and possibly the 35 & 756?
Hopefully in the future Arriva might invest in some newer buses or better models for Wednesfield, that would make a good impression for the Midlands :) Not to sound disrespectful its just that older Darts like what theyve brought in arent going to be the best having been thrashed for years around London & the midlands and arent really much better than slightly newer but still elderly clones of the buses theyre replacing
Quote from: bob on January 25, 2013, 11:30:54 PM
Hopefully in the future Arriva might invest in some newer buses or better models for Wednesfield, that would make a good impression for the Midlands :) Not to sound disrespectful its just that older Darts like what theyve brought in arent going to be the best having been thrashed for years around London & the midlands and arent really much better than slightly newer but still elderly clones of the buses theyre replacing
As long as they're refurbished to a decent standard, which they will be, and turn up on time, I don't see what the problem is...
Quote from: notepanel on January 25, 2013, 10:06:37 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 24, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 23, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Another 11 services plus 2 part-commercial services.
Never knew they were that many see why Arriva are now the owner.
Just out of curiousity, what are the other commercial routes operated by Midland? I believe some are the 9, 10, 19, 33 & 334 and possibly the 35 & 756?
Think the 18, 57, 63 and 64 are also commercially run.
Can't see why Centro would tender them, though don't see why Arriva would want them commercially.
There only ever seems to be a group of pensioners with free passes on there.
Just seen Midland 2117 ( jjz private plate) MPD in Lichfield, jesus christ what a state it is!! Hopefully wont be a stayer!!
Quote from: bob on January 26, 2013, 03:14:43 PM
Just seen Midland 2117 ( jjz private plate) MPD in Lichfield, jesus christ what a state it is!! Hopefully wont be a stayer!!
It will now stay now you have said that.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on January 26, 2013, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: notepanel on January 25, 2013, 10:06:37 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 24, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 23, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Another 11 services plus 2 part-commercial services.
Never knew they were that many see why Arriva are now the owner.
Just out of curiousity, what are the other commercial routes operated by Midland? I believe some are the 9, 10, 19, 33 & 334 and possibly the 35 & 756?
Think the 18, 57, 63 and 64 are also commercially run.
Can't see why Centro would tender them, though don't see why Arriva would want them commercially.
There only ever seems to be a group of pensioners with free passes on there.
Wrong.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 26, 2013, 04:53:13 PM
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on January 26, 2013, 02:44:53 PM
Quote from: notepanel on January 25, 2013, 10:06:37 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 24, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 23, 2013, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: Discodave on January 23, 2013, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 22, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Service 10 is not the only commercial service we operate.
2156 is also here now.
What else is there then?
Another 11 services plus 2 part-commercial services.
Never knew they were that many see why Arriva are now the owner.
Just out of curiousity, what are the other commercial routes operated by Midland? I believe some are the 9, 10, 19, 33 & 334 and possibly the 35 & 756?
Think the 18, 57, 63 and 64 are also commercially run.
Can't see why Centro would tender them, though don't see why Arriva would want them commercially.
There only ever seems to be a group of pensioners with free passes on there.
Wrong.
Also the 991
Saw a double decker ALX400 in Wolverhampton with arriva livery and midland logos, running the A1
Quote from: Shaun on January 27, 2013, 10:03:17 PM
Saw a double decker ALX400 in Wolverhampton with arriva livery and midland logos, running the A1
I think there's two ALX400 DAFs at Wednesfield.
I know for certain that 4778 is a transfer.
Was expecting to have the Midland names removed on those by now, they only need to rip off the Midland stickers.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on January 27, 2013, 10:35:56 PM
Quote from: Shaun on January 27, 2013, 10:03:17 PM
Saw a double decker ALX400 in Wolverhampton with arriva livery and midland logos, running the A1
I think there's two ALX400 DAFs at Wednesfield.
I know for certain that 4778 is a transfer.
Was expecting to have the Midland names removed on those by now, they only need to rip off the Midland stickers.
They will 'rip off' easy, won't they?
They are not as bad as the rather obvious 'West Midlands Part Of National Express' stickers , are they?
One is 4779 and 4791 I think are regular on the A1
4778 (S251 JUA) - 756/19, 4779 (S292 JUA) - A1.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 28, 2013, 04:35:37 PM
4778 (S251 JUA) - 756/19, 4779 (S292 JUA) - A1.
Will 4778 will always be on the 756/19, and 4779 always on the A1 or do they swap from day to day?
Quote from: John on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 28, 2013, 04:35:37 PM
4778 (S251 JUA) - 756/19, 4779 (S292 JUA) - A1.
Will 4778 will always be on the 756/19, and 4779 always on the A1 or do they swap from day to day?
Always the same.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 28, 2013, 06:13:57 PM
Quote from: John on January 28, 2013, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 28, 2013, 04:35:37 PM
4778 (S251 JUA) - 756/19, 4779 (S292 JUA) - A1.
Will 4778 will always be on the 756/19, and 4779 always on the A1 or do they swap from day to day?
Always the same.
Cheers, I know where I can find 4778 now then!!
jarh_9394 whats happening with the exact fare boxes are they staying or are they going now the MPD Arriva buses are there see the earlier ones still have them on 2152 is one of them. Also unless I am seeing things apart from the ones you mentioned they seems to be a lot more there and a few round the back looking like they are going to go.
Well, you seem to have the answer to this judging by your post in the "Arriva Cannock depot happenings" thread:
"The fare boxes are vanishing not on the deckers I have seen in the yard but it was dark though."
I'd be interested to hear where you get your information from.
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 30, 2013, 04:47:06 PM
I'd be interested to hear where you get your information from.
Discodave, has posted numerous times that he works in the haulage yard next door to Midlands's depot, so not by trespassing......
Quote from: Winston on January 30, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 30, 2013, 04:47:06 PM
I'd be interested to hear where you get your information from.
Discodave, has posted numerous times that he works in the haulage yard next door to Midlands's depot, so not by trespassing......
Who said anything about trespassing?
Translated, the quote appears to suggest that a vault has been removed from a double-decker vehicle and this is not true. No vaults have been removed from any service vehicle.
Terrible solo on the 23 working the 5.25 off cannock, gladly took my fair then tells me he won't do the proper route due to a 'knackerd bus' (Drivers words) it cut out about 3 times, the destination blind wasn't working and the driver said it had been over heating and there was also a shabby dart on 62's yesterday I think it was JJZ 2248
A nice modern, clapped out fleet lol
I reckon the only midland buses that will be kept are
SN51UDW
WL03AOL
YN53ELV
And the 2 deckers
Others may stay but I can't see them beig repainted
Why those?
Well and I don't mean to slate the fleet, just an opinion but there like the newer ones and the deckers are used quite reguarlar, is it possible to request a marshall bodied dart on the 23 tomorrow as I've never been on 1 and just a question are the 51 plate darts in arriva liverey replacing anything?
Quote from: arrivaaston on January 30, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
Well and I don't mean to slate the fleet, just an opinion but there like the newer ones and the deckers are used quite reguarlar, is it possible to request a marshall bodied dart on the 23 tomorrow as I've never been on 1 and just a question are the 51 plate darts in arriva liverey replacing anything?
I looked at the fleetchanges a couple of days ago and I think there was about 6 withdrawn.
Using arrivaaston's method, I also think that JJZ 5248, which was DE51 EWJ, 2102.
I've never really understood why so many of their buses were re-registered, there either
GNZ****
JJZ****
ENZ****
LUI***
Wonder if origonal registrations will be put back on??
Any ideas how many of the fleet will be kept?
I reckon the S reg solos will go and the marshall bodied darts
2151 was a nice treat in Stourbridge on a otherwise mundane day :-)
That 1 of the LJ51 darts transfered from Arriva London?
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 30, 2013, 07:47:14 PM
Quote from: Winston on January 30, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: jarh_9394 on January 30, 2013, 04:47:06 PM
I'd be interested to hear where you get your information from.
Discodave, has posted numerous times that he works in the haulage yard next door to Midlands's depot, so not by trespassing......
Who said anything about trespassing?
Looking through the fence and also did say it was dark so will answer why I was wrong. Also can see the buses round the back which have bits removed from them being a manager not in the yard as often any more
Translated, the quote appears to suggest that a vault has been removed from a double-decker vehicle and this is not true. No vaults have been removed from any service vehicle.
Arriva MPD on 21 (Oldbury - Bearwood)
Quote from: Shaun on January 31, 2013, 02:46:45 PM
Arriva MPD on 21 (Oldbury - Bearwood)
2 were on the 20/21's (they change in Bearwood), 2154 and 2155
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/8433404458
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/8432320267
That's where 2154 is then, it was at cannock last week and another solo yet again broke down on the 23!! That's 2 or 3 times this week, loads of people not happy about it, I know brek downs can't be helped but 2 or 3 times in the week normaly its common for the fan belts, heaters or water leaks!! Please put a marshall dart on the 23 tomorrow??!!
What do you expect the fleets made up of tat lol. Seriously surely at least 75% of the vehicles in the fleet are knackered and need to go?
True very true but the marshall darts don't sound half as bad as the 'newer' darts and solos
Don't know that much about Arriva buses and I only use them occasionally but really are they as bad as some make out?
I mean this 51 plate Dart (by appearence) would put most company's to shame
http://www.flickr.com/photos/retroscania/8432815227/in/photostream/
In comparison to other companies 51 platers this don't look too bad I recon!
Cannock's 51 plate Darts are absolute nails, but not as bad as some of Midland's examples, and thats sayin somethin!
That's 1 of the recently refurbed ones as its transfered from London, if you ever go to cannock try using one of the BU51*** darts or any red Midland bus and you'll see what we mean
Quote from: arrivaaston on January 31, 2013, 10:04:33 PM
That's 1 of the recently refurbed ones as its transfered from London, if you ever go to cannock try using one of the BU51*** darts or any red Midland bus and you'll see what we mean
Well ok fair enough as someone who doesnt travel on or drive Arriva buses in cannock much I don't have much to stand for, but I will say plenty of companies have good buses along with their sh**e ones to! hasn't Arriva just had a bunch of very nice Mercedes Citaro's which everyone seams to think on here every firm should have!!!...Who else has them? I know the Optare Versa's get a bad press but they are new and clean and Arriva have stacks of them. As for Midland yes I cannot argue that most the fleet is clapped out 'ready for the kn*****s yard' but at least they are all in the same livery. If your catching a Midland (sorry Arriva) you know its a Midland! Some things turn up you don't know what the Hell it is these days!!
Tamworth and Telford have the mercs, the versas are based at Burton, Telford, Shrewsbury, Derby and leicester and Oswestry garrage have the longer versions, daft thing is Midland are using Arriva sprayed buses on their routes but you still can't use arriva day savers on them!!
Quote from: 4006 (Not NEL 111P) on January 31, 2013, 10:15:01 PM
Quote from: arrivaaston on January 31, 2013, 10:04:33 PM
That's 1 of the recently refurbed ones as its transfered from London, if you ever go to cannock try using one of the BU51*** darts or any red Midland bus and you'll see what we mean
Well ok fair enough as someone who doesnt travel on or drive Arriva buses in cannock much I don't have much to stand for, but I will say plenty of companies have good buses along with their sh**e ones to! hasn't Arriva just had a bunch of very nice Mercedes Citaro's which everyone seams to think on here every firm should have!!!...Who else has them? I know the Optare Versa's get a bad press but they are new and clean and Arriva have stacks of them. As for Midland yes I cannot argue that most the fleet is clapped out 'ready for the kn*****s yard' but at least they are all in the same livery. If your catching a Midland (sorry Arriva) you know its a Midland! Some things turn up you don't know what the Hell it is these days!!
Me and Bob have slated Cannocks fleet but as an ex driver myself and from a passengers point of view apart from a few new VDL buses most of it is tired out MPD or pointer darts with some Volvos which are showing there age a bit. I remember bringing them in from Hinckley. Even some of the SB120 and SB200 VDL buses are basically knackered and they are still in bus terms modern 53/54 plate (only exception is the 06 plate they have which as it had come from head office has been treated well). Cannock as I have said before has top maintence facilities even a VOSA test station and this should show by no matter how old the bus is well maintained but it is not it was crap when I was there and is not really much better. I hope Wednesfield does well but if it is coming under the wing of Cannock I doo not hold out much hope. It cost a lot to renew a fleet but with what has come to Wednesfield so far is a good start better than chase. Decent refurbed buses yes they are 51 plate but look the part and shows commitment to trying and update. They may be MPD darts but are better than any optare bus and if people take to Arriva this time New vehicles may come there way. I have already mentioned about Cannocks problems with regards to network and bus allocation elsewhere but most other garages in the Arriva Midlands Empire have very modern fleets with renewals often Cannock and Stafford do not just the cast offs.
Your dead right about allocations, the 51 plate Darts at Cannock should be swapped with 5 B6s at Stafford as they are used on the 2,3,6,12 and often now the 88 and these routes really dont need a bus that size whereas the 32/3 in cannock often do, Stafford also sometimes use them on the 432/7 as well both of which only need an MPD!!!!
Actually Bob, certain boards on 88 require a higher capacity due to schools as part of the contract.
The old Choice fleet didnt look too bad on their own.
Its those ex A2Z buses that spoilt things!
The old choice fleet?
28 G541TBD
134 P134MEH
If you ever used the 23 you'll know what I mean
Oh didnt realise that, theyre normally empty when leaving Stafford, that aside though all staffords routes bar maybe the 9 do not need B6 sized buses, its ludicrous that Cannock stick MPDs on interurban services a lot of the time when Stafford shoves 39 seaters on barely used routes
Quote from: arrivaaston on February 01, 2013, 10:45:22 AM
The old choice fleet?
28 G541TBD
134 P134MEH
If you ever used the 23 you'll know what I mean
I havent, but I used to see the vehicles used on the old 171 route!
Even the Nationals looked in better nick than these things!
Fairs fair bob cannock do have ex telford b6 in use at cannock lol and the 171 an excel or solo was decent when on the 23 all we had was shitty mercs that constantly broke down
Unidentified Arriva livery bus on 288 today and 2153 was on the 298/9 yesterday.
the old school choice, the merc urbanrangers looked ok, and the excels/solos livery i think suited them - much better than the d&g blue cream. not professional at all. when i was there, they had had p134meh from new, but it was already 7 years old, and well worn. i remember it having new engine and box fitted, and it was ok but was worked hard. g541tbd, another g-tbd plus 2xplaxton beaver 709d's j203/4jrp were bought in late 2003 for the lichfield lines town service. these were from mk and well knackered. choice seemed to like dennis/mercedes and optare stuff.
Quote from: Stuharris63 on February 01, 2013, 02:06:38 PM
Unidentified Arriva livery bus on 288 today and 2153 was on the 298/9 yesterday.
If relevent 2155 was in West brom on a rail replacement today
Rail replacement?
2152 was the bus on the 288 today, makes a change having a bus in Arriva livery on this former Midland route.
The mercs were P134MEH, J203/4JRP, G531/541TBD and R110VNT/R211VNT I think the R110VNT and R211VNT were part of Arriva on the Wardle/D&G take over
there were loads more than that, the 3 star riders, g576prm, g122pgt another g-pgtfleet no.58, g-nns, etc. r210/11 vnt were quickly moved to d and g on choice takeover. i believe they are long gone.
Is it known yet what routes are moving from Cannock to Wednesfield and what if any are coming to Cannock?
I posted on the Arriva page on fb and they said a lot of the Midland buses will be going
Lol they prob need to tbf
The only decent buses Midland had were them 3 scanias and them 2 evolutions... Shame they passed on to D&G but all the solos need to go
Most of the plaxton darts are s*****d as well, worse condition than Cannocks worst ones if thats possible lol
Its possible where Midland darts are concerned don't think they have 1 decent do they and 1 of thr solos is in a right state W298EYG... Any1 else seen this can be found on 23,62 or 810
Aint that one of the coach seated ones? thought they wouldve been slightly better? Dya reckon Arriva aint put vinyls on the Midland fleet cos they wont be stayin that long?
Nah normal seats, its the X reg solos that have the coach seats on them
On the 2r as I write this and its a 51 plate solo and it sonds f****d!!
Well looking at the garage yard (in case of more accusations of tresspass even though I work next door) more and more refurbed MPD darts are appearing possibly the ones mentioned but looks a lot more so looks as if most of the Midland Stuff may go except possibly the deckers. (the non Daf ones)
Looking at previous comments in this thread, looks as though tjere aee some V/KDA darts coming too
2288 is the one I saw in the yard.
2288 was Cannocks many years ago, eventhought it may be older, its in better condition than the Y/HKE's...... As i said i think a majority of the fleet will go, maybe keep the 03/53 plate solo's because the S reg ones are knackered, the W/EYG, The X/AUX and X/NUB are all f****d, maybe some of the Midland 'sheds' will go to Wardle, there already in the liverey, they just need the wardle stickers lol
Disco Dave - Are you anywhere near Aspray?
The company I work for, have used them for extra/overspill storage in the past.
Quote from: Westy on February 03, 2013, 02:31:12 PM
Disco Dave - Are you anywhere near Aspray?
The company I work for, have used them for extra/overspill storage in the past.
yes up planetry road we share K transports yard behind Arriva we are Norberts but use BOC's units being leased off them
Quote from: Discodave on February 03, 2013, 05:02:41 PM
Quote from: Westy on February 03, 2013, 02:31:12 PM
Disco Dave - Are you anywhere near Aspray?
The company I work for, have used them for extra/overspill storage in the past.
yes up planetry road we share K transports yard behind Arriva we are Norberts but use BOC's units being leased off them
I know Norberts. (I work, or did work at the Blakemores site round by Hootys, before I got transferred over to our depot over Great Bridge a few weeks ago!)
2152 on 531 today
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/8447424781
And 2151 on the 81 also
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/8447387129
Doubt the Wednesfield fleets gonna change much then? From one load of clapped out Darts to another... So far the newest one from Arriva is 11 yrs old....
LJ51 dart on the 23A tonight :o was good to see an arriva bus back in wimblebury :)
Yea and u cant use a daysaver on it lol. Do they sound as clapped out as cannocks 51 plate cos theyve got same older type engine
According to a white board in the traffic office (can see quite clear through window) it states no Arriva branded buses on 35/991, 23 and 62 wonder why?
Arriva dart 2151 is on the 23 today and worked the 23A last night
Quote from: Discodave on February 06, 2013, 10:40:11 AM
According to a white board in the traffic office (can see quite clear through window) it states no Arriva branded buses on 35/991, 23 and 62 wonder why?
Maybe their plannin to F##k them routes off first?
Full oft report into the takeover can be read here
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/mergers_ea02/2013/arriva.pdf
Quote from: bob on February 06, 2013, 06:42:21 PM
Quote from: Discodave on February 06, 2013, 10:40:11 AM
According to a white board in the traffic office (can see quite clear through window) it states no Arriva branded buses on 35/991, 23 and 62 wonder why?
Maybe their plannin to F##k them routes off first?
They don't seem to like operating between Walsall & Lichfield, do they?
Then again, as that route has been changed a bit over the past few years, its understandable.
You knew where you were with the route when TWM operated it!
Quote from: Tony on February 06, 2013, 08:15:10 PM
Full oft report into the takeover can be read here
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/mergers_ea02/2013/arriva.pdf
Intresting seems they were more concerned on the Staffordshire market Arriva are almost dominant but one bit for bob which may please him
62. One third party indicated it has the ability to expand in the West Midlands and South Staffordshire but would need to consider a number of factors and another that it may try if the competitive offering were worsened in the West Midlands. However, it is not clear to what extent any entry or expansion would be timely, likely and sufficient to counteract any concerns raised.
but sour grapes from another
65. One third party expressed concerns at the low bids Arriva made for tender contracts. However, no merger effect has been identified from this and the OFT has assessed competition for tender contracts above.
Very detailed report and good to see the OFT have made sense.
They should be bloody concerned, Arriva shouldnt be allowed a complete monopoly on the Cannock area services!
The report only said about 60% of the market was Arriva I can not see this but it did involve areas such as burntwood as NX still operate there was a lot to look through even very small stuff such as coastal liner was included so this shows even if small it all counts to a non monopoly in Staffs, with regards to the West Mids they have 3% according to centro and evidence Arriva put to the OFT. Its a done deal the OFT are happy but weather the public will get a better service in either county or more competetion In the West mids is another matter. Its nice to have another large player with some clout its will Arriva use it in Staffs I am afraid its basically a West mids situation in reverse Arriva are the only main option. This thread needs to be put to bed
.
Fares are increasing on Monday to NXWM levels.
Clout? Id hardly call a fleet of MPDs cascaded in to replace an even worse fleet of MPDs & solos gearing up to use their clout lol! give it 6-12 months itll go tits up like Chase.... Theyll never ever compete successfully with nxwm
Bob,
Maybe you should consider moving to West Bromwich or Dudley, at least then you get the pleasure of travelling around on some of NXWM's 14 year old 'clapped out' Mercedes and B6LEs.
the refurbed B6s at least, are 100% times better internally than bloody 03 plate sb120s & darts ! Try riding on half of cannocks fleet. Would WB put their Mpds on inter urban routes on a regular basis??? I doubt it
Quote from: Stu on February 07, 2013, 07:48:13 PM
Bob,
Maybe you should consider moving to West Bromwich or Dudley, at least then you get the pleasure of travelling around on some of NXWM's 14 year old 'clapped out' Mercedes and B6LEs.
Don't forget the Spectra's ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: mikestone on February 07, 2013, 05:20:02 PM
Fares are increasing on Monday to NXWM levels.
On some routes check Arriva website on 9/334 fares cheaper and NX travel card supplements different too 60p on Arriva services and 80p on Arriva/ex midland services
Quote from: bob on February 07, 2013, 05:24:29 PM
Clout? Id hardly call a fleet of MPDs cascaded in to replace an even worse fleet of MPDs & solos gearing up to use their clout lol! give it 6-12 months itll go tits up like Chase.... Theyll never ever compete successfully with nxwm
I really dout it! arriva midlands have dramtically improved over recent years and with some good aquirsions lately I think they are going from strength to strength. Arriva are going to do even better I think that they are currently really trying to make a good impression in the west midlands and centro seem obviously to like them. I gre up with arriva in shrewsbury and im quite glad now that they are Walsall's second operator. I hope that nxwm need to watch out because I really hope arriva given them a good run for there money!!! hope to see new commercial routes coming soon!!!!
Doubt there'll be any new commercial routes, nxwm would wipe the floor with em, in walsall eg, if people had a choice between a nxwm b7, omnilink or even a b6le or old b10, compared to a clapped out arriva MPD or even worse any ex midland nail ( stick a pin in the fleet list its 90% sheds) and have the choice of £3.90 for a nxwm ticket or paying £6 what are they gonna do? I might be wrong but unless they expand commercially very widely theyll be a flop as ive said before midlands services are pretty low rent
Will have to give them a chance yes they are darts but the replacements they have at Wednesfield have at least been refurbed and are in latest livery and have decent interiors unlike Cannocks which you have said on many occasions like myself, chase had a load of loss making routes and Arriva thought at the time they could expand off them but underestimated the West Mids market. Midland are a little more established but had been struggling but not to the extent of chase just under investment like Jarl said. You cannot just throw new buses at everything and expect results well presented and maintained ones are better and thats where Cannock lacks. It could do with a few newer buses too but what is there to replace the Darts MPD or longer length versions. Scanias and volvos are not cheap neither are new deckers. Optare offer value but build quality is questionable and lasting is another thing look at the solo them things are really clapped out. If any commercial routes are going to be put on a lot of thought needs to be put in as look at diamonds failures on the 59,529.
Exactly! NXWM have got all corner's covered, and crap Darts even if refurbed arent gonna make much of a good impression or any impact are they? Theyre noisier than even a bloody solo ffs
I dont believe the type of bus bothers most people. Most passenger want a clean well presented bus. This is what the ex london darts are, they look clean and tidy and people will get on them. They wont stand at walsall bus station and say oh thats an rerurbished mpd from london not getting on that, they will say oh here is the bus and get on job done
Apparently three of the ex london darts broke down yesterday, things are looking good.....
Pity the ex London darts have the b series engine, ISBE engined ones wouldve been loads better. Also ive been on 2155 today & counted 29 seats not 23? Interior not bad but very rattly & screeching brakes so about Arriva's usual standard but with a better interior
On one of the ex a2z Marshall darts and despite it being refurbed its an absolute rattling bloody shed. Will these be going??
I do not think these are staying
Wonder what they got coming to take their place, id imagine the east lancs spryte dart, that alx200 nail and most of the knackered solo's would be on the way out. Sayin that i saw one of their MPD pointers the other week in Lichfield and that werent looking or sounding too good either. Seen in Buses mag that 3 more DAF/Alx400 Deckers have come from London V-reg this time wonder where these'll be heading, prob Burton so they can be used on more routes that dont need Deckers. Been on sb200 Fd52 GGP today it sounds really knackered.
If you look at the wednesfield bit unless you have seen it 2102 has been re liveried so some of the MPDs are staying and the ex London and the some from the reserve pool will top it all off I reckon the deckers may get re liveried
I saw 2158 yesterday and that seemed to have a few rattles, as oppose to the 51 plate solos, total shit, and I had a pretty decent marshall dart the other day, I'd like to think they'd keep these on
Doubt theyll keep em mate. More likely to keep the Pointers i reckon
I see tony uploaded a pic of 2162 on the A1, thought this was a Burton bus?? And is there any more of these 52 plates?
I reckon the following buses will be on the way out
Sadly the Marshall darts
The optare excell
The 3 east lancs spryte bodied darts
And I think the deckers will transfer to Leicester/Wardle meself
Quote from: arrivaaston on February 25, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
I see tony uploaded a pic of 2162 on the A1, thought this was a Burton bus?? And is there any more of these 52 plates?
I reckon the following buses will be on the way out
Sadly the Marshall darts
The optare excel
The 3 east lancs spryte bodied darts
And I think the deckers will transfer to Leicester/Wardle meself
I saw 2162 this morning heading in the direction of both Wednesfield garage and Wolverhampton, with private on the display.
The two Tridents aren't needed on the 10, it needs full size singles at a push. The DAFs will need to stay though because of the A1.
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on February 26, 2013, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: arrivaaston on February 25, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
I see tony uploaded a pic of 2162 on the A1, thought this was a Burton bus?? And is there any more of these 52 plates?
I reckon the following buses will be on the way out
Sadly the Marshall darts
The optare excel
The 3 east lancs spryte bodied darts
And I think the deckers will transfer to Leicester/Wardle meself
I saw 2162 this morning heading in the direction of both Wednesfield garage and Wolverhampton, with private on the display.
The two Tridents aren't needed on the 10, it needs full size singles at a push. The DAFs will need to stay though because of the A1.
Check VOSA registrations A1 is being withdrawn in April just been mentioned on Arriva depot wednesfield section by a post from someone else.
Quote from: Discodave on February 26, 2013, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: NXWM Spectra on February 26, 2013, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: arrivaaston on February 25, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
I see tony uploaded a pic of 2162 on the A1, thought this was a Burton bus?? And is there any more of these 52 plates?
I reckon the following buses will be on the way out
Sadly the Marshall darts
The optare excel
The 3 east lancs spryte bodied darts
And I think the deckers will transfer to Leicester/Wardle meself
I saw 2162 this morning heading in the direction of both Wednesfield garage and Wolverhampton, with private on the display.
The two Tridents aren't needed on the 10, it needs full size singles at a push. The DAFs will need to stay though because of the A1.
Check VOSA registrations A1 is being withdrawn in April just been mentioned on Arriva depot wednesfield section by a post from someone else.
They're probably gonna go aswell then. Leaving Wednesfield almost completely 29 seater midibuses.
Yea, they need 29 seaters for all their routes, cause theyre so successful lol. I still cant see exactly what Arriva are gonna be able to do with it to make it expand? Bit of a dead duck really?
Transfer 2 Commanders or something to Wednesfield for the 10, transfer those east lancs eyesores to Wardies with the DAFs. Why did Telford have 4787 does anybody know, bit off topic sorry?
A 37 seat Dart could probably cope with the 10 couldnt it?
4787 went to Telford for a college service, in between college duties it can be found working the "Arriva Staff Shuttle" and surely Wardle could transfer the mercedes benz sprinter "taxi" buses for Midlands routes lol
2218 T48WUT now in use at Wednesfield
Aint that a nail?
Not sure m8, its the 1 that was in Cannocks yard for months, sounded ok, better than the lj51*** darts, 2 of them had faults 2day
Quote from: arrivaaston on March 02, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
2218 T48WUT now in use at Wednesfield
Still a lot of Arriva branded darts around the back and still not in service. Not much cop being there with Hill Top services coming over
I doubt Wednesfields gonna get any new or even modern buses, the way its looking its just going to be a Dart MPD graveyard
Looking forward to 12 months from now, where do people see the ex-Midland operation? Will they be roughly the same ie an entire fleet of clapped out midibuses ( probably Dart only), will there be investment, will there be new routes, will they expand with new ones, will they compete successfully on busy NXWM routes therefore grabbing a piece of the market, will it be reduced like Chase was?
I would like to think that arriva will test the waters, do their market reseach and make the most of their expansion, maybe if routes are registered that prove sucessfuf then newer buses may be either transfered from other operations or even brought new, would be intresting to see if they register against NXWM on any route (personally can't see it, NXWM would wip the floor with them) but would be intresting to see two big boy company's battle it out
I personaaly think it would be the other way round, Arriva could wipe the floor with NXWM if they gave it 100%. But as it is & knowing Arriva they will probably not take advantage of the situation, make a complete hash of their commercial competitive services, lose their tendered work & end up closing the operation.
I would be surprised if they didn't give it a go in the midlands despite not a lot happening as yet they have invested in midland and more than just buses after they were took over arriva advertised for a GM the current midland op doesn't require a 50k a year post so I suppose time will tell. But they are no threat to NX as NX have too much to loose to let them be. The only operator that could give NX a run for their money is stagecoach but they have no intention in running them down they want the business not he remnants.
How exactly would they win hands down? No chance at the moment and the fact that theyre transferring in tired 29 seat Darts from London & even worse knackers from the Midlands suggests a) they arent planning to expand onto any busy services b) they havent got a chance with a a crap fleet like that its just replacing crap with more crap
Quote from: bob on March 03, 2013, 07:26:46 PM
How exactly would they win hands down? No chance at the moment and the fact that theyre transferring in tired 29 seat Darts from London & even worse knackers from the Midlands suggests a) they aren't planning to expand onto any busy services b) they havent got a chance with a a crap fleet like that its just replacing crap with more crap
Do you not think that they realised the condition of many of the Midland vehicles when they took over ? They probably earmarked several for immediate or very imminent withdrawal as I would imagine they are beyond practical extension of use, so the only solution in those circumstances is to draft spare vehicles in, just as NX has done for years with it's reserve fleet. They cannot just suddenly lay their hands on a batch of Arriva standard new vehicles at that sort of notice. Even if they wanted to invest that money (bearing in mind they still don't know exactly where they're going with it just yet), many manufacturers have long build lead times and certainly don't carry that sort of stock.
The refurbs they have done on the London stock may only extend their life for a year or two but if it's been done economically that can be budgeted for. They can then look to replace them in a year or two's time...again just as NX are starting to do with vehicles that they refurbished recently.
And as you point out, they also have a variety of MPD's spare elsewhere in the operation and you will find that these are probably in better condition mechanically and mileage wise than the Midland stock, hence drafting them in. It doesn't mean they are expecting all these Darts to run for the next 5 years. These days a large operator can withstand the cost of a basic refurb and repaint to extend the life for a short period, as long as they get their money's worth out of what it operates. A refurb these days is not the same as the old mid life overhaul the likes of WMPTE used to do and does not have the same cost ratio.
Some of the Midland stock will warrant extension, some won't.
These vehicles will not be long term.
Quote from: richie on March 03, 2013, 07:26:12 PM
I would be surprised if they didn't give it a go in the midlands despite not a lot happening as yet they have invested in midland and more than just buses after they were took over arriva advertised for a GM the current midland op doesn't require a 50k a year post so I suppose time will tell. But they are no threat to NX as NX have too much to loose to let them be. The only operator that could give NX a run for their money is stagecoach but they have no intention in running them down they want the business not he remnants.
They are also advertising for a new Duty Manager at Wednesfield.
Am I correct in saying that the MD of Arriva Midlands was a former top manager with NXWM and that the GM at Wednesfield, Raj Chander, previously held the post of Area Ops Manager with NXWM at West Brom?
Im not saying they should be bringing in brand new buses. But as they are just midi buses they cant be realistically used on busy routes, so competing on them isnt really an option is it? To say Midlands fleet is in poor comdition is an understatement! Their maintanence must be worse than Cannocks and thats saying something! I would put money on Wednesfield being wound up within 12 to 18 months. Arriva will most likely fail miserably. Incidentally apparently the drafted in Darts have already started breaking down
Quote from: notepanel on March 03, 2013, 08:50:40 PM
Quote from: richie on March 03, 2013, 07:26:12 PM
I would be surprised if they didn't give it a go in the midlands despite not a lot happening as yet they have invested in midland and more than just buses after they were took over arriva advertised for a GM the current midland op doesn't require a 50k a year post so I suppose time will tell. But they are no threat to NX as NX have too much to loose to let them be. The only operator that could give NX a run for their money is stagecoach but they have no intention in running them down they want the business not he remnants.
They are also advertising for a new Duty Manager at Wednesfield.
Am I correct in saying that the MD of Arriva Midlands was a former top manager with NXWM and that the GM at Wednesfield, Raj Chander, previously held the post of Area Ops Manager with NXWM at West Brom?
Yes, Alex Perry was former Black Country Area Manager (amongst other roles he did) at NXWM, and Raj was Operations Manager at West Brom.
Bit of a come down for them then id imagine
Quote from: bob on March 04, 2013, 09:11:25 PM
Bit of a come down for them then id imagine
Why?
Anybody know what other Midland stuff will be resprayed apart from the MPD's?
Quote from: andy on March 04, 2013, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: bob on March 04, 2013, 09:11:25 PM
Bit of a come down for them then id imagine
Why?
They may show some promise actually knowing the ways NXWM will fight and also some of the dirty tricks.
Quote from: Discodave on March 05, 2013, 04:42:47 AM
Quote from: andy on March 04, 2013, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: bob on March 04, 2013, 09:11:25 PM
Bit of a come down for them then id imagine
Why?
They may show some promise actually knowing the ways NXWM will fight and also some of the dirty tricks.
Exactly, and that is precisely why I think the takeover of Midland will have far more consequences than what happened at the time of the Chase episode.
The chase takeover was a joke Arriva just did not have a clue they still had to run the nationals (no spare low floor to replace) good they were but the West mids were almost 100% low floor and Cannock still had crappy step darts at the time. Which was one of the reasons chase sold up. Arriva also should have relised how much in decline Chases services were due to NXWM competition and how to actually compete, this time it may be better.
I'm seeing a lot of the Midland transit van lately. Broken down Dart on Lodge Farm. About time the plague of Britain was replaced.
Quote from: Discodave on March 05, 2013, 11:52:38 AM
The chase takeover was a joke Arriva just did not have a clue they still had to run the nationals (no spare low floor to replace) good they were but the West mids were almost 100% low floor and Cannock still had crappy step darts at the time. Which was one of the reasons chase sold up. Arriva also should have relised how much in decline Chases services were due to NXWM competition and how to actually compete, this time it may be better.
Would be nice to think so but cant see howw? Was Midland a thriving business just prior to Arriva takeover then?
Quote from: arrivaaston on March 04, 2013, 11:04:31 PM
Anybody know what other Midland stuff will be resprayed apart from the MPD's?
I saw 2125 Y382 HKE today in Darlo in Arriva livery looking very smart indeed. Considering how some of the Midland Darts were/are looking I have to say looks like a good job and although I only saw it in passing no reason why the others can't be done the same also.
Itll still be the same rattling knackered mess though like nearly all the midland buses just with a coat of aquamarine lol. Surprised theyre keeping any of them to be fair
Quote from: bob on March 05, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Discodave on March 05, 2013, 11:52:38 AM
The chase takeover was a joke Arriva just did not have a clue they still had to run the nationals (no spare low floor to replace) good they were but the West mids were almost 100% low floor and Cannock still had crappy step darts at the time. Which was one of the reasons chase sold up. Arriva also should have relised how much in decline Chases services were due to NXWM competition and how to actually compete, this time it may be better.
Would be nice to think so but cant see howw? Was Midland a thriving business just prior to Arriva takeover then?
It was but from what was local to me, it's solo's and subsided routes
2412 (OUI 2376) was on the 10 today with red Arrive fleetnames - has somebody found a box of London stickers?
Despite 2125 havin a full repaint at one of the HKE batch was in Bilston with the red Arriva fleetnames.
Keep seeing fresh aquamarine liveried MPD's around Wolves, quite an improvement on the horribly dull Solos
Arriva are proud to announce they are now serving Brownshills!
http://wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/2156.html
Quote from: trident4370 on March 16, 2013, 07:08:03 PM
Arriva are proud to announce they are now serving Brownshills!
http://wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/2156.html
Well, dont forget they serve 'Blakenhall' in Walsall as well, according to the 19 timetable!
Quote from: Westy on March 16, 2013, 10:39:56 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on March 16, 2013, 07:08:03 PM
Arriva are proud to announce they are now serving Brownshills!
http://wmbusphotos.com/Arriva/2156.html
Well, dont forget they serve 'Blakenhall' in Walsall as well, according to the 19 timetable!
Good old Arriva! ;)
One of the new Darts was on the A1 today
One of the ex London Darts broke down on the 23 service at 8.45am in cannock bus stn the other day & it took them until 2pm to send another bus. As the 23 is a one bus route it meant there was no service most of the day! What a poor show
Quote from: bob on March 20, 2013, 07:22:43 AM
One of the ex London Darts broke down on the 23 service at 8.45am in cannock bus stn the other day & it took them until 2pm to send another bus. As the 23 is a one bus route it meant there was no service most of the day! What a poor show
The 23 route is moving to cannock depot from the 28th so of the bus breaks down in theory you should get a replacement quicker
Are any other routes moving to cannock? And obviously cannock would need some more buses
Not with the lose of the 560
Maybe but are cannock takin on 810 & 62? These with 23 would mean 4 buses and the 560 only needs 2 a time doesnt it?
The only routes cannock are taking on are 62, 15, and 23
Is the 810 being renumbered the 67? And being operated from cannock under that number?
The 67 is not being operated by Cannock I believe its a wednesfield service. It could possibly be a replacement for the 810 i dont know
All the centro tendered work i.e 530, 335, 8a etc currently worked from cannock is all going to wednesfield too
810s a pointless dead route anyway
I gather the 560's been withdrawn & replaced by an extended 19.
I did wonder in the past whether this might be a starter.
(Might be a bit of dead mileage on Sunday, as the Arriva 560 never operated on that day & the 19 is only a daytime service? Unless they give up Sunday 19's?)
They may just keep the sunday service to terminate at bloxwich from walsall
Is there any way that Wolves 28a & Walsall 19 could be linked in some way on a Sunday daytime?
One for Centro to ponder.
(The New Invention to Bloxwich section is the stumbling block!)
Do you mean the 28E and not 28A
Where are the East lancs trident dissapeared to. I haven't seen them at all this week. They have been using the optare excel and even solos this week
Maybe gone for paint and refurb into arriva livery
One of the ex Nottingham Tridents Midland had was on the 19 today
From Sunday 28th April NXWM will be operating the 10 on sundays alongside the existing Arriva (midland) sunday service, presruably to create a combined 30 minute frequency.
Whod put money on Arriva not starting any new commercial services? I would... I'll give them 12months and the WM pperation will be gone
Finally! I have figured out why arriva have brought midland so they don't have to fight for more tendered routes against another company beacuse with midland brought, the only other major competor for tendered routes is diamond
trying to find the other decker the one with midland logos on i know the one was on the A! has gone but where will the other one be found on saturday as in the week it does schools 19 schools thanks
Quote from: Solo1 on April 02, 2013, 05:51:03 PM
trying to find the other decker the one with midland logos on i know the one was on the A! has gone but where will the other one be found on saturday as in the week it does schools 19 schools thanks
Apart from the ELC ex midland tridents, i think the other double deckers have gone unless someone knows if it is still at Wednesfield.
Arriva seem set to invest in Wednesfield
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?pbid=72df4f56-591f-4e5e-b41e-4a48fe55490c
Quote from: broma1k on April 04, 2013, 11:23:32 AM
Arriva seem set to invest in Wednesfield
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?pbid=72df4f56-591f-4e5e-b41e-4a48fe55490c
You will need to register to be able to see the article, it's free to register though.....
Main points are:
17 x buses refurbished 12 x ex London 51/52 plate MPD's (2151-2162) & 5 x DAF DB250/ALX 400 double deckers ex London (4795-7 + 2 others?)
Is what it doesn't mention, is that Arriva are currently swapping 12 plate Enviro 200's with Y-reg ex Leicester MPD's (2257 is one I've seen around Merry Hill)
Raj Chander has joined Wednesfield as Op's Manager ex NXWM (WB garage)
Revenue is currently split 75% tendered / 25% commercial - suggests they may be looking to increase commercial revenue, but doubt it would involve a significant assault on NXWM routes
Thats the second ex NX person involved there now isnt it.
You wouldve thought the ex NX people would have a fairly good idea what works & what doesnt!
Quote from: Westy on April 04, 2013, 01:56:00 PM
Thats the second ex NX person involved there now isnt it.
You wouldve thought the ex NX people would have a fairly good idea what works & what doesnt!
Arriva Midlands MD Alex Perry is former NXWM senior management
Quote from: Winston on April 04, 2013, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: broma1k on April 04, 2013, 11:23:32 AM
Arriva seem set to invest in Wednesfield
http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?pbid=72df4f56-591f-4e5e-b41e-4a48fe55490c
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Main points are:
17 x buses refurbished 12 x ex London 51/52 plate MPD's (2151-2162) & 5 x DAF DB250/ALX 400 double deckers ex London (4795-7 + 2 others?)
Is what it doesn't mention, is that Arriva are currently swapping 12 plate Enviro 200's with Y-reg ex Leicester MPD's (2257 is one I've seen around Merry Hill)
Raj Chander has joined Wednesfield as Op's Manager ex NXWM (WB garage)
Revenue is currently split 75% tendered / 25% commercial - suggests they may be looking to increase commercial revenue, but doubt it would involve a significant assault on NXWM routes
Hi Winston, have 4795-7 been noted at Wednesfield? there are also 4798, 4800-05 in reserve.One other point in the article although not to do with Wednesfield is 3 new sb200's for the x38 derby. .Burton. with regards to E200 2144/5/7-50 are confimed at wigston and so far 2253/6/7 are at Wednesfield.
Quote from: tphi12000 on April 04, 2013, 11:32:31 PM
Hi Winston, have 4795-7 been noted at Wednesfield? there are also 4798, 4800-05 in reserve.One other point in the article although not to do with Wednesfield is 3 new sb200's for the x38 derby. .Burton. with regards to E200 2144/5/7-50 are confimed at wigston and so far 2253/6/7 are at Wednesfield.
No they haven't, it was just an assumption based on Tony's current Arriva fleetlist and those are shown in reserve, I'm not that familar with the Arriva Midlands fleet, none of the others you mention are showing at present, no doubt they may be added at the next set of fleet changes
Quote from: Winston on April 04, 2013, 11:49:25 PM
Quote from: tphi12000 on April 04, 2013, 11:32:31 PM
Hi Winston, have 4795-7 been noted at Wednesfield? there are also 4798, 4800-05 in reserve.One other point in the article although not to do with Wednesfield is 3 new sb200's for the x38 derby. .Burton. with regards to E200 2144/5/7-50 are confimed at wigston and so far 2253/6/7 are at Wednesfield.
No they haven't, it was just an assumption based on Tony's current Arriva fleetlist and those are shown in reserve, I'm not that familar with the Arriva Midlands fleet, none of the others you mention are showing at present, no doubt they may be added at the next set of fleet changes
ok cheers , they were on Feb changes just no added to fleet list yet
What service will the newly aquirred deckers
be found on
Not one that fills them lol
with regards to E200 2144/5/7-50 are confimed at wigston and so far 2253/6/7 are at Wednesfield.
[/quote] 2261 is another ex wigston MPD at Wednesfield parked in the yard this morning , E200's 2141 & 2142 were also there.
Quote from: Trident 4609 on March 23, 2013, 09:09:28 PM
From Sunday 28th April NXWM will be operating the 10 on sundays alongside the existing Arriva (midland) sunday service, presruably to create a combined 30 minute frequency.
Presuming Arriva won't change their Sunday timetable, both NXWM's and Arriva's 10 will combine to make an every 20-40 minute frequency. Arriva's 10 leaving Wolverhampton at :00 and NXWM at :20:
http://nxbus.co.uk/files/NXWestMids/current_timetables/B010v_28Apr13.pdf
Technically the Sunday evening timetable will have a higher frequency than the Monday-Saturday evening frequency
what new buses do people think arriva could realisticly buy for wednesfield and what routes do you think they could be put on. I personally would like to see some of the mcv evo's with vdl chasis replacing the mini pointers and solos and maybe versas for 334/9?
Can you think of any ex midland routes that could warrant investment in new buses? ??
Quote from: bob on April 24, 2013, 06:40:46 PM
Can you think of any ex midland routes that could warrant investment in new buses? ??
334/9/10 and maybe walsall litchfield services. Hopefully better buses would encourage people onto there commerical servicess. The mini pointers which are coming in second hand are ok for centro contracts but new buses should really be sort for commerical services they wish to grow I would also love to see some new sort of service from cannock into birmingham. I would love to see them on x51 but maybe even something via brownhills would be good.
Cannock to Brum bus services obviously don't work do they? Through Brownhills? ????? Are you mad it would take forever! The old 156 took well over an hour plus no one used it hence it being axed, theres already a diamond 56 and nx are starting the 936, why on earth would they do it? Nx have the walsall to brum corridor nailed if anyone should do a cannock service id of thought it would be them
Sunday service 10 has been axed. Apparently, and wishing versas for the 9/334...... NO THANK YOU!! The new 19 service will be going to the bus station in wolverhampton and on hospotal grounds, 67 replaces 810 with an 'additional' saturday timetable, 991 bein renumbered and the 81 is and the 35e I believe, I picked up a leaflet today
Saturdays eh? Thatll be handy
Versas are cheap and cheerful and look great! I know everyone hates them but at 128 grand they are good value for money. I lived on tye route the very first one at arriva midlands was put on and they have grown on me. The ones with the cummins engine are epic would love to see more around the west midlands. And I seriously would say if brand new buses got to wednesfileld its goi g to include a versa I think they are the in thing with arriva and dont think any route needs a full size pulsar!
Another new step for Arriva Wednesfield is its Walsall to Litchfield weekly ticket priced at £16. Hopefully a new west midlands day ticket and weekly ticket will follow suit. Also mentions a £4 day return
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/content.aspx?id=34359738464
This is the type of thing im looking for arriva to be doing for there new operation, and hopefully its a positive step!
There is also a black country week saver i think £11 valid in wolverhampton, walsall and dudley and a day saver for those areas also is £3.80
Quote from: dannygill on May 01, 2013, 11:02:38 PM
Another new step for Arriva Wednesfield is its Walsall to Litchfield weekly ticket priced at £16. Hopefully a new west midlands day ticket and weekly ticket will follow suit. Also mentions a £4 day return
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/content.aspx?id=34359738464
This is the type of thing im looking for arriva to be doing for there new operation, and hopefully its a positive step!
The next step should be getting some decent buses! !!
Quote from: busman99 on May 02, 2013, 06:47:16 AM
There is also a black country week saver i think £11 valid in wolverhampton, walsall and dudley and a day saver for those areas also is £3.80
How does that compare with the equivalent NX tickets?
The network isnt as big at first glance IMO.
Yep only an extra 10p.for a daysaver. .... far better value for money
So im a little gutted that wednesfield has taken over my local route 335. The negitives were even though people slate cannock I honestly berlieve they was doing a good job amd excellent reliability compared to previous operator diamond. I really like my dafs and enjoyed having the 54 plate mini cadets on the route (but diliked the bu51xxx darts). Plus no change as they have vaults. So how will wednesfield perform on the 335? Im not that bothered about the buses I just hope they katch the reliabilty that cannock offered on the 335.
So does anything interwork thesedays?
What does the 335 come from, straight from depot, or from another route?
Quote from: Westy on May 06, 2013, 05:42:53 PM
So does anything interwork thesedays?
I was in Dudley on Friday. Ex-Leicester Dart 2261 came on on the 229. It then left as the 610.
Im unsure to be honest. Logically I coukd guess it make inter work with the 19? I have noticed several different buses on the route throughout tue day and night.
Just seen w298eyg in lichfield, fron and sides has arriva logos but the rear still has 'Midland' and Midlandbus.net on it....... Great image lol
Quote from: bob on May 02, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
Yep only an extra 10p.for a daysaver. .... far better value for money
its not far better value for money though if your not going to use nx services. For example you could be travelling just using the 334 to work? I have been crying out for this ticket for ages. I have lived in Walsall for 4 years now and have seen them grow and grow and I honestly believe its a good thing. Even if you cant stand them bob it might encourage nx to be even better with competition from arriva!
The same should apply in Cannock maybe some competition would at least encourage Arriva to maintain the bloody vehicles so they arent breaking down daily. And as for what about people who just use the 334? On that basis there wont be huge ticket sales as the 334 like 99% of ex midland routes doesnt even require a full sized bus....
Just seen a W reg DAF ALX 400 on the 19 in bloxwich completely empty. When I caught it the other sat it was a dart there and back, 5 on board on way there and empty on way back. Why waste a decker on this route?? Whats the logic? Cant see the route lasting itll just be another massive flop lol
I seen one of the ex midland solos this morning been painted into arriva livery, didnt catch the fleet number but im sure it was a W reg one
Quote from: bob on May 17, 2013, 01:59:43 PM
Just seen a W reg DAF ALX 400 on the 19 in bloxwich completely empty. When I caught it the other sat it was a dart there and back, 5 on board on way there and empty on way back. Why waste a decker on this route?? Whats the logic? Cant see the route lasting itll just be another massive flop lol
If thats the Wolves to Blocko section, I see your point.
If its the Blocko to Walsall section, thats more of a problem if that goes as that only leaves NX 29 for Blakenall.
Suggestion, run the route from Walsall as advertised to Field Road in Bloxwich, serve Pinfold Health Centre, up the Bloxwich High St & Stafford Road to Turnberry, plus serve Mossley as well, rejoining the current route at Sneyd Lane.
(Suggestion for Centro on evenings & Sundays, run the 8a as far as Abbotts St & enter into Blakenall, looping the Church, then Ingram Road turning left onto Field Road as current route!)
Quote from: bob on May 17, 2013, 01:59:43 PM
Just seen a W reg DAF ALX 400 on the 19 in bloxwich completely empty. When I caught it the other sat it was a dart there and back, 5 on board on way there and empty on way back. Why waste a decker on this route?? Whats the logic? Cant see the route lasting itll just be another massive flop lol
The bus is newley tranferred 4798
Why run a decker on a dead service though?
Quote from: bob on May 17, 2013, 05:05:00 PM
Why run a decker on a dead service though?
Don't have a clue. Doesn't need deckers and doesn't even fill a MPD or solo
Exactly they havent got a clue. 12 months max and the 19 & probably the whole ex midland operation will be history.
The route has potential I feel they just need to market it correctly and I think using a double decker on the route is needed as they are in better condition compared to a lot of the rest of the depots buses and it sends a message to the passenger that it is a bigger route. it needs branding!!! and bob I think competition in Cannock would be good, but is it really that big of a place to support a decent sized competitor....that I doubt sadly!
19 route probably has lack of passengers due to the 89 being dominant between Wolves and Bloxwich. Reality is when you have bus passes that lets you travel on hundreds of routed accross Midlands, Joe Public would use NX because of the availabillity. I have used 19 and noticed that OAP's use it most with very few people without passes maybe are actually fare payers (i.e. £1.90).
Quote from: dannygill on May 17, 2013, 08:13:03 PM
The route has potential I feel they just need to market it correctly and I think using a double decker on the route is needed as they are in better condition compared to a lot of the rest of the depots buses and it sends a message to the passenger that it is a bigger route. it needs branding!!! and bob I think competition in Cannock would be good, but is it really that big of a place to support a decent sized competitor....that I doubt sadly!
Cannock to walsall and cannock to Wolverhampton routes operated by arriva would be finished if nx stepped in and competed
On the 19 today there's two arriva liveried deckers, admittedly looking very smart. Then theres an mpd pointer and a marshall dart BOTH in midland livery with midland fleetnames!!! Im sorry but this gives a shit awful impression, surely they couldve used arriva livery darts for christs sake? Its a new service and if this is how seriously they take it god help em
My personal belief is that Arriva have taken a risk with the 19 service.
The '319' part of the route, whenever I used to see it operated by NXWM at least, always seemed quite popular. Don't forget at one point this was operated by both NXWM & Chase/Arriva. Perhaps completely wide of the mark, but I always believed that in the reviews NXWM would 'compensate' a smaller operator with a decent commercial route, in favour for them doing something bigger with another. I suspected this was the case with the 319. More recently I've found it's loadings are nothing special but decent.
The '560' part of the route operates along an extremely competitive, but busy, corridor. Between Wolverhampton and Wednesfield you have the 59, 69 & 89 direct by NXWM, plus several other less regular services. If you are travelling between these two, unless you know the timings off by heart, you would either get on another service by probability or purposely wait at a location with more buses (E.g. the bus station).
The way Arriva have treated the 560 before (I.e. the interworking in Wolves) will automatically have given it a bad reputation, and now they have removed one of the main things it had going for it, the historic service number. How many passengers who let the bus go by know that it is the 560 renumbered, especially when on several occasions a different operator to previous appears to be operating the service? Certain parts of the route have around 10 different services passing, which seem to change quite frequently, you can't expect an elderly person to keep up to date with all the changes, especially if they have not been communicated well.
The new links between Goscote/Blakenall to Wednesfield, New Cross & Wolverhampton are perhaps useful to have on paper, but in reality the demand is probably not great for such a link. I would imagine the extra passengers probably don't replace the potentially lost passengers from the renumbering and any delays the extended route may cause.
It parked up in bloxwich having carried around 10 passengers on and off btwn walsall blakenall ( what a deprived dump) and there then left for wolves from the stop round the corner empty
Someone previously suggested they should compete with the x51, that could be an idea
Does the 19 appear on the "where to find your bus poster" at Wolverhampton - it didn't when I last looked.
;
Presumably Arriva fell for the usual "we really need a bus to the hospital" guff - the 38 very rarely seems to do any business at the Manor.
Red Solo with Arriva fleetnames on the sides, but Midland fleetname on the back operating the Bloxwich to Brownhills 23 today.
(I guess the two 23's have swopped garages, with Cannock having the ex Midland one & Wednesfield having the ex Cannock one! It is also technically impossible to have 2 service numbers the same operating from the same depot, as if you remember the Wolves & West Walsall Review Leaflet, the 560 was to change to the 60, but as Arriva Cannock already operated a 60 between Cannock & Lichfield, the Wolves one stayed as the 560!)
The 19 doesnt appear on the walsall bus stn poster either
Just to correct you on 23's, Arriva Cannock run the Ex Midland 23 (Cannock - Hednesford) and Wednesfield run the Former Hill Top 23 Brownhills to Bloxwich
And I've just thought, cannock do it have 2 routes with the same service number.
26 Pye Green "Circular"
26 Springfields
23 Cannock via Wimblebury and Heath Hayes
23 Pear Tree
So if thats the case, how do Cannock tell the difference between the 2 26's etc then?
Hill Top had a bit of a trek to run their 23 then?
26 springfields and the peartree route are just rugeley local services :)
Why don't Cannock run the 23 from bloxwich-
Brownhills rather than the former Midland depot
Not much in it really is there wednesfield to bloxwich or cannock to bloxwich its probably about the same distance
Quote from: a220 on May 19, 2013, 08:35:50 PM
It's worth noting that it isn't always proximity to a depot that is the deciding factor.
Go on then, how does it work then?
I gather a bus that works in on one route can swop to another route. (I presume this is how tenders work, if a bus is already in the area, otherwise how else do you explain Diamond getting the evening & Sunday 33 in Walsall. In fact it'll be interesting now that Diamond has withdrawn the evening & Sunday 404's, which enabled this to happen, how long they will stay on certain routes? I'm surprised they're still on the 301!)
The 9 seems to be pretty dead lately, even with nice 12 reg buses on it. I see more passengers on the 333X. Tuesday i got on and i was the only passenger on all the way to Walsall just before i got on the 19. I wonder how the Wednesfield depot is going to survive; they have done enough to promote services but they don't seem to be picking many fare paying passengers up.
Doubt it will survive in all honesty. Arriva have got form look at the mess they made with Chase only one service survives now ( I suppose 2 if you count the 19 replacing the 560), and lets face it Midland cant have been doing that well if they were they wouldntve had such a terrible fleet. Plus Arriva didnt last long on the 9 before. But then again maybe theyll pick up, possibly start competing on some decent routes.....
Today on a 529 getting off in Bentley from Wolves, and a 9 branded Arriva Enviro has broken down in the middle of the four way junction by the old Lane Arms pub.
Quote from: s-m-991 on June 20, 2013, 05:52:27 PM
Today on a 529 getting off in Bentley from Wolves, and a 9 branded Arriva Enviro has broken down in the middle of the four way junction by the old Lane Arms pub.
There was one of those further down Bentley Road North, parked on the BCR bridge.
Presume its the same vehicle, but I dont recall seeing branding on it!