https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/coventry-network-consultation
Changes to occur on most routes which will likely commence 1st September
Quote from: JPC on June 19, 2019, 10:10:00 PM
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/news/coventry-network-consultation
Changes to occur on most routes which will likely commence 1st September
Communication is one of National Express greatest weaknesses. Even by its own "standards" a faceless person asking for feedback at three weeks notice for changes which are a fait accompli after seven years is abysmal.
No leader seemingly has the courage or been given the responsibility to present a coherent overall plan to citizens let alone develop an ongoing dialogue.
P.S. My renowned attention to detail tells me Tile Cross isnt served by Coventry's route 5.
Reading between the lines, this is what could happen, although the re-configuration of some cross-city services seems a bit unclear. New Union Street is going to see far less use it would seem!
4 Possible changes->
Divert City – University Hospital services via Hillfields (Primrose Hill Street etc) Britannia St, Swan Lane to Ansty Road.
Break the link between the Arena Park/Holbrooks area to the Hospital and reconfigure a new link with another part of the city, but using Corporation St and travelling past the Rail Station.
Possibly divert City – Arena Park services to serve more of the Whitmore Park/Holbrooks areas as well as use Eagle Street again.
5/7 Possible changes->
Increase the frequency of services to Coundon/Radford & Brownshill Green areas.
Withdraw the 5 between Holbrook Lane/Everdon Road and the Ricoh Arena.
Break the link between Tile Hill and Radford and separate the two segments and cross-linking the City – Tile Hill section to another part of the city.
6/6A No major changes planned
8/8A Possible changes->
This service may serve other areas of the city. A new route in the city centre is planned; using Coventry University, Pool Meadow Bus station, the Burges (in one direction), Corporation Street and Queen Victoria Road (in both directions). The 9/9A and possibly a diverted 10 would maintain direct links with the Rail Station.
9/9A Possible changes->
Alter the city centre route from Pool Meadow to the Rail Station, to traverse Corporation Street and Queen Victoria Road in both directions, rather than using New Union Street.
10 Possible changes->
No major route changes are planned for either segments of service 10 but the service may be divided with new links established. The City – Bell Green section could be diverted via the Rail Station using the current Corporation Street to give a direct link to the station.
11/11U Possible changes->
Planned route changes between Pool Meadow Bus station and the Rail Station would see buses use Corporation Street in both directions instead of New Union Street – the current 12X would still use the New Union Street area.
12X No major changes planned
13/13A No major changes planned
16/16A Possible changes->
No major route changes are planned for the Keresley side of services 16/16A but the link to Binley may be severed with buses running City – Keresley Village only, at an increased frequency during peak times, as the shorter Keresley Road services will be extended to Keresley Village.
The City – Stoke Aldermoor – Binley service; a range of route alterations exist around Humber Road.
Option 1 all buses running along Terry Road & Sunbeam Way (Aldermoor Lane, Bolingbroke Road and part of Humber Road would not be served).
Option 2 all buses running along Terry Road, Humber Road, Bolingbroke Road and Aldermoor Lane.
Option 3 all buses running along Terry Road, Humber Road, Anglian Way (a new road served) and Sunbeam Way (Aldermoor Lane, Bolingbroke Road would not be served).
Services would not traverse the Hillfields area with a diverted service 4 acting as a replacement.
18/18A Possible changes->
Options include running the 18 at an increased frequency and cross-linking it over to the University Hospital.
The current 18A would be replaced by a new route; City – Prior Deram Walk/Mitchell Avenue via the Rail Station, Kenilworth Road, Cannon Hill Road and Cannon Park. This could be extended to the Westwood Business Park giving this area a regular service to the city centre.
19 Possible changes->
See above, the 19 would be replaced by a new City – Westwood Business Park via the Rail Station and Cannon Park service which also replaces the current service 18A. It would operate 07.00 until 18.00 operating every thirty minutes.
20/20A/20B/20C No major changes planned
21/21S No major changes planned
23/23A Possible changes->
The service may be split and a new Allesley Park - City - University Hospital service created.
The City – Cheylesmore/Fenside segment would run via Corporation Street and Queen Victoria Road (avoiding Cox Street & New Union Street) and consideration is being given to run via the Rail Station.
27A Possible changes->
The 27A to Middlemarch Business Park would be replaced by additional 21 journeys using the normal 21 route to/from the city centre (so avoiding the section of London Road from the Ring Road to Daventry Road).
Overall - Very Positive!!
Reading the Blurb on the Consultation- Maybe more Drivers Jobs too! So presumably Higher PVR?
Quote from: gc802002 on June 20, 2019, 08:29:56 PM
Overall - Very Positive!!
Agreed. Am I right in saying there will still be no direct service between the train station and the Binley Rd corridor? Many moons ago there used to be a 44? Or was it 48 direct from Princethorpe Way. Someone may be missing a trick here?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on June 20, 2019, 09:23:54 PM
Agreed. Am I right in saying there will still be no direct service between the train station and the Binley Rd corridor? Many moons ago there used to be a 44? Or was it 48 direct from Princethorpe Way. Someone may be missing a trick here?
Worth submitting the thought!
Thank you to the person who corrected 5 to say it serves Tile Hill.
A example of a really good way of managing bus route change.
1) Ask for feedback within defined period to named individual via internet, at bus stops and by publicising on buses with leaflets that are confined to specific route/route group
2) Hold road shows to enable managers to meet local citizens.
3) Develop proposals that are logical based on feedback.
4) Hold road shows to launch those proposals.
5) Publicise new timetables and make them available at least a month in advance that state what has changed not just "Revised timetables"
6) Introduce services with passengers and staff fully aware of whats changing.
Easy isn't it if all parties work together, after all thats what I thought the alliance was for!
Reading these comments on the survey:
5/7.. "We cannot identify anyone using the direct links beyond Coventry city centre, between Tile Hill and Radford"
10..."We cannot identify a requirement for the direct link between Eastern Green and Bell Green (there would still be direct buses to and from Coventry city centre from both sides of the city), but if you will be affected by the loss of a direct link across the city centre please let us know"
16/16A..."We cannot identify a requirement for the direct link between Keresley and Stoke Aldermoor"
I find those comments/questions a bit odd - almost as if we [as customers/passengers] wanted those particular links set-up! Surely they were linked together from 2012 etc for operational convenience, with the view that hardly anyone would want to travel one from side of the city to the other, on those services.
You would have thought the only direct link people might want - would be to the city centre obviously and possibly University Hospital/the Rail Station.
Filled in the consultation, to get discussion going again here's roughly what I responded:
6/6A:
Nothing proposed but I suggested changing Tile Hill Lane/Broad Lane as a timing point as the railings at the city-bound stop means only one bus at a time can stop. If buses are waiting time there, this can often lead to buses behind being unable to stop. I suggested moving it to Hearsall Common instead.
8/8A:
Good to have buses running the same way through the city centre in both directions, but the survey seemed to be suggesting that the rail station would no longer be served (the wording was confusing, I might be wrong about this), which I disagreed with.
11:
I saw no real point for the change of route in the city centre. Earlsdon/Hearsall Common/Canley already have a link to Corporation Street, and they would lose the link to New Union Street and that side of the city centre.
It's useful in the evenings to have the 11/12X departing from the same stops as they form a combined frequency.
I worry that traffic in the Burges will impact the 11's reliability.
16/16A:
I opted for the choice that covered as much of both routes as possible - better to have connectivity.
18/18A:
I didn't like that the well-used section of the 18A between Canley/Charter Avenue and Cannon Park Shopping Centre would be cut back, and the hourly and often unreliable 60/61 isn't an adequate substitute. Canley needs a link to Cannon Park more than Westwood Business Park does.
Westwood Business Park already has an all-day service to the rail station 10-15m walk away with the 11.
While the 18 could benefit from being more frequent, it shouldn't be done at the expense of cutting the 18A back.
I also fear that extending the route across the city to the hospital could damage reliability as the traffic in Ball Hill and Walsgrave is often very bad.
27A:
I didn't see any point to the proposed changes, which would just make the route slower.
Additionally, they seem to plan on increasing the number of buses between the hospital and the city centre, with both the 18 and the 23 (Allesley Park end) potentially getting new links. One could connect with the new and slower 4 which is being split across the city, but besides that the 9/9A aren't being changed, so that surely means more buses?
The 'consultation' closes at 12 noon on Friday 12th July - In case anyone still wishes to make their views known or has garnered some new thoughts since.
I am quite satisfied with what NX are intent on doing, all the services which have mismatched routing / awkward double backing / opposite directions serving the same road/stop etc. within the City centre is seemingly all being resolved.
Disappointing seeing no changes planned for the 6/6A and 13/13A which are sometimes horrendously unreliable, unfair having one half of a service suffering because of delays on the other half. etc.
It sounds like the 18 from Tile Hill South could be joined to the University Hospital end of service 4 via part of the 16A route through Hillfields, this new route could perhaps be the planned allocation for the future ten electric buses?.
Quote from: JPC on July 11, 2019, 05:47:17 PM
It sounds like the 18 from Tile Hill South could be joined to the University Hospital end of service 4 via part of the 16A route through Hillfields, this new route could perhaps be the planned allocation for the future ten electric buses?.
The word 'direct' was used in the consultation to refer to the new link between the 18 and University Hospital, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but going via Hillfields and then Wyken doesn't seem particularly direct.
However, they say they're considering a link between the Allesley side of the current 23 and the hospital, and that too is referred to as direct, so I guess at least one of the new 'direct' links will probably be by joining something up with the eastern half of the old 4.
In any case, it'll be interesting to see what the new mix of routes and service patterns will be.
Quote from: JPC on July 11, 2019, 05:47:17 PM
The 'consultation' closes at 12 noon on Friday 12th July - In case anyone still wishes to make their views known or has garnered some new thoughts since.
Disappointing seeing no changes planned for the 6/6A and 13/13A which are sometimes horrendously unreliable, unfair having one half of a service suffering because of delays on the other half. etc.
Very disappointing indeed NXC and I cannot see why nothing is being done about it
Date for the Coventry service changes is now confirmed as 22nd September
Amendments are now appearing on the Vosa site where details are sketchy but here goes....
3/3A Arena Park - Fenside (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537610)
4/4A University Hospital - Tile Hill/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537611)
6/6A Tanyard Farm-Victoria Farm (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537622)
7 City - Brownshill Green (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537612)
8/8A Walsgrave - Eastern Green + 9/9A Hospital - Leasowes Ave (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537613)
10 Bell Green - Tile Hill (South)/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537614)
11/11U/12X City-University/Leamington (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537615)
13/13A Willenhall-Whitmore Park (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537616)
16 City - Keresley (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537617)
18/19 City- Tile Hill/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537621)
21/21A Wood End - Willenhall/Middlemarch (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537620)
23 Allesley Park - University Hospital (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537618)
27A Cancelled (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537619)
X30 Ansty Park shuttle (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537609)
Quote from: JPC on August 09, 2019, 05:13:09 PM
Date for the Coventry service changes is now confirmed as 22nd September
Amendments are now appearing on the Vosa site where details are sketchy but here goes....
3/3A Arena Park - Fenside (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537610)
4/4A University Hospital - Tile Hill/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537611)
6/6A Tanyard Farm-Victoria Farm (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537622)
7 City - Brownshill Green (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537612)
8/8A Walsgrave - Eastern Green + 9/9A Hospital - Leasowes Ave (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537613)
10 Bell Green - Tile Hill (South)/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537614)
11/11U/12X City-University/Leamington (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537615)
13/13A Willenhall-Whitmore Park (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537616)
16 City - Keresley (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537617)
18/19 City- Tile Hill/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537621)
21/21A Wood End - Willenhall/Middlemarch (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537620)
23 Allesley Park - University Hospital (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537618)
27A Cancelled (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537619)
X30 Ansty Park shuttle (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537609)
Obviously the 16/16A over to Binley & the Hospital has gone - but I assume its been re-established with a link to the 23? (so 23 to Stoke Aldermoor etc, etc).
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 09, 2019, 05:18:23 PM
Obviously the 16/16A over to Binley & the Hospital has gone - but I assume its been re-established with a link to the 23? (so 23 to Stoke Aldermoor etc, etc).
Seems logical - and if that is the case I'm sure the people of Allesley Park will soon moan about the new link being overwhelmingly too long.
I have a feeling the Allesley Park - City and The Moorfield - Binley WSP sections will be losing out / reduced to a 15 minute daytime frequency - but will gain a solid double deck allocation.
No change to the 5 so far, which is interesting considering it was in the consultation.
I wonder why all three of the 4, 10, and 18/18A/19 are shown to Tile Hill and Westwood Business Park. It'll be interesting to see how it works out...
If I were to guess, the 18/18A/19 registration is used just for the 19, the 4 registration for the ex-18 Tile Hill via Hearsall Common, and the 10 registration for the all day service to Westwood Business Park via Cannon Park.
Quote from: JPC on August 09, 2019, 06:38:04 PM
Seems logical - and if that is the case I'm sure the people of Allesley Park will soon moan about the new link being overwhelmingly too long.
I have a feeling the Allesley Park - City and The Moorfield - Binley WSP sections will be losing out / reduced to a 15 minute daytime frequency - but will gain a solid double deck allocation.
The frequency of the 16/16A to Binley/UHCW is broadly similar to the 23/23A to Allesley Park currently - but they could indeed reduce it down to every 15 mins daytime.
The 5 is missing from that list; I assume the City - Earlsdon - Tile Hill South element has been linked over to either the 4/4A or the 10 - but what about the City - Coundon - Radford - Holbrooks - Arena Park segment ? (I'm assuming the new 3/3A replaces the City - Holbrooks - Hen Lane - Arena Park bit of service 4). Is there no replacement at all !? Do we need two separate services to the Tile Hill area as well as the 6/6A group (both the 4/4A & 10 seem to be heading there) unless the details haven't been made fully clear or there is an error somewhere.
The Cheylesmore/Fenside Ave area finds itself, yet again, with a new number to get used to - although we did have 2/3/3A for a while.
No changes registered for the 5 at all yet.
Quote from: highland on August 09, 2019, 06:57:20 PM
No change to the 5 so far, which is interesting considering it was in the consultation.
I wonder why all three of the 4, 10, and 18/18A/19 are shown to Tile Hill and Westwood Business Park. It'll be interesting to see how it works out...
Maybe the current service 5 won't exist at all after these changes! (but they'll have to be some kind of replacement for the City - Coundon - Holbrooks section surely). Could that be an error - so either the 4/4A or 10 actually go to the Arena Park as a service 5 replacement [and not go to Tile Hill at all]? I can't imagine we would need the 4/4A, 6/6A, 10 & 18/19 all heading to the same area!
It's not showing as cancelled, so if no further changes are registered, then the 5 timetable will be exactly the same as before.
Quote from: highland on August 09, 2019, 07:16:43 PM
It's not showing as cancelled, so if no further changes are registered, then the 5 timetable will be exactly the same as before.
That would perhaps suggest just running as: 5 City - Holbrooks/Whitmore Park via the current Coundon and Radford route only (if the Tile Hill South section has been lopped off - which seems to be the case). The survey did suggest cutting out the Holbrook Lane to Arena Park segment, so maybe a heavily shortened service 5?
All will be revealed as they say!
No, the registration (see https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/499428/) is for Tile Hill Village - Arena Retail Park via City Centre, and there are no changes listed for 22 September 2019. As such, there is nothing to suggest that the route or timetable will be changed at all from 22 September. Change could be coming at some point, but not yet, otherwise the registration would have changed.
Quote from: highland on August 09, 2019, 07:29:34 PM
No, the registration (see https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/499428/) is for Tile Hill Village - Arena Retail Park via City Centre, and there are no changes listed for 22 September 2019. As such, there is nothing to suggest that the route or timetable will be changed at all from 22 September. Change could be coming at some point, but not yet, otherwise the registration would have changed.
That could mean the 4/4A, 5, 6/6A, 10 and 18/19 all heading, broadly speaking, to the same area of Coventry! Sounds interesting.
Of course Vosa details is always sketchy/erratic...
The amended 4/4A likely replaces/covers routes 18 and 19.
The amended 10 probably operates to the Rail Station with certain journeys extending further to replace/cover 18A.
The amendment to the 18/18A/19 might actually become the service which replaces the 5 between City and Tile Hill South, though it'll likely be a new service number - for example 15.
The 5 between City and Everdon Road might now be added on to the registration for the 7 as a variation despite there being no indication on it.
Something will eventually happen to the existing registration for the 5 come another day.
Quote from: JPC on August 09, 2019, 07:59:09 PM
Of course Vosa details is always sketchy/erratic...
The amended 4/4A likely replaces/covers routes 18 and 19.
The amended 10 probably operates to the Rail Station with certain jouneys extending further to replace/cover 18A.
The amendment to the 18/18/19 might actually be the service which replaces the 5 between City and Tile Hill South, though it'll likely be a new service number - for example 15.
The 5 between City and Everdon Road might now be added on to the registration for the 7 as a variation despite there being no indication on it.
Something will eventually happen to the existing registration for the 5 come another day.
Yes, we should take these things with a bit of a pinch of salt! - the full details are not always displayed on the Vosa notifications. But at some point TfWM/Centro and NXC will have to publish the full details.
Quote from: JPC on August 09, 2019, 05:13:09 PM
Date for the Coventry service changes is now confirmed as 22nd September
Amendments are now appearing on the Vosa site where details are sketchy but here goes....
3/3A Arena Park - Fenside (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537610)
4/4A University Hospital - Tile Hill/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537611)
6/6A Tanyard Farm-Victoria Farm (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537622)
7 City - Brownshill Green (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537612)
8/8A Walsgrave - Eastern Green + 9/9A Hospital - Leasowes Ave (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537613)
10 Bell Green - Tile Hill (South)/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537614)
11/11U/12X City-University/Leamington (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537615)
13/13A Willenhall-Whitmore Park (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537616)
16 City - Keresley (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537617)
18/19 City- Tile Hill/Westwood (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537621)
21/21A Wood End - Willenhall/Middlemarch (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537620)
23 Allesley Park - University Hospital (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537618)
27A Cancelled (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537619)
X30 Ansty Park shuttle (https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537609)
Thanks for this pretty much confirms my suspicions reading between the lines of survey that these changes had been decided before the public were "consulted". I therefore wonder who the person in NX is who has the power to implement a culture of effective on going liaison with citizens. An example one company has adopted is individual travel centre staff who have been relieved of ticket selling by the internet are made responsible for specific communities rather than sitting in an office with less to do!
The X30 has only recently gone to NX from Diamond and it still struggles to run to time. Will this be a route or timings change or both?
Quote from: JoNi on August 09, 2019, 10:46:02 PM
Thanks for this pretty much confirms my suspicions reading between the lines of survey that these changes had been decided before the public were "consulted". I therefore wonder who the person in NX is who has the power to implement a culture of effective on going liaison with citizens. An example one company has adopted is individual travel centre staff who have been relieved of ticket selling by the internet are made responsible for specific communities rather than sitting in an office with less to do!
You could argue these changes aren't that radical, there are few new numbers/routes from the current set-up. What seems to be happening is just the breaking of old/establishing new cross-city links - probably for operator convenience, dealing with increased traffic conditions etc. Will many people from Allesley Park want to go to Stoke Aldermoor, Binley and so-on, I doubt they'll be many (save for a few wanting to get to the Hospital).
I note there is no 23A - suggesting the City - Warwickshire Shopping Park/UHCW service will use one direct route (with no split in the Humber Rd area) I wonder which route it will take? - I can feel some moaning coming along from those roads that will miss out. There is still a plan to divert the 4 through Britannia Street so it can serve Hillfields?
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 10, 2019, 12:43:21 PM
You could argue these changes aren't that radical, there are few new numbers/routes from the current set-up. What seems to be happening is just the breaking of old/establishing new cross-city links - probably for operator convenience, dealing with increased traffic conditions etc. Will many people from Allesley Park want to go to Stoke Aldermoor, Binley and so-on, I doubt they'll be many (save for a few wanting to get to the Hospital).
I note there is no 23A - suggesting the City - Warwickshire Shopping Park/UHCW service will use one direct route (with no split in the Humber Rd area) I wonder which route it will take? - I can feel some moaning coming along from those roads that will miss out. There is still a plan to divert the 10 through Britannia Street so it can serve Hillfields?
Some Concessionary Pass holding friends from Allesley Park are very happy with the current 23/A as it goes within walking distance of the station. Is it really beyond the wit of a responsible member of NXC to seek feedback by placing notices on buses asking users for feedback on a route with its own pool of vehicles. Better still a manager could park in Allesley Park and catch the bus to work and speak to customers!
Update - the registration for the 5 has now been changed. It's now between Coventry City Centre and Radford. See link here - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537647/.
Additionally, the registration for the 18/18A/19 has now been cancelled, see link here - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537648/.
No other changes from today as far as I can see.
The consultation said the 19 would stay, but the times might change, so I'm not sure what'll happen with that.
From this it could be the case that the old 5 route to Tile Hill via Earlsdon could be part of the 10 after all. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Quote from: highland on August 12, 2019, 11:15:42 AM
Update - the registration for the 5 has now been changed. It's now between Coventry City Centre and Radford. See link here - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537647/.
Additionally, the registration for the 18/18A/19 has now been cancelled, see link here - https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/537648/.
No other changes from today as far as I can see.
The consultation said the 19 would stay, but the times might change, so I'm not sure what'll happen with that.
From this it could be the case that the old 5 route to Tile Hill via Earlsdon could be part of the 10 after all. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
It seems that way - so numbers 18 & 19 might well disappear (there is a long association with the number '18' and the Canley area - shame to see that end, potentially, but anything goes these days I suppose!).
NXC will be using remarkably few service numbers; using between 3 and 23 in the main - even then there will be quite a few gaps in that range. The lowest number of different services for quite a while it seems, granted we're still sticking to these 'A' services for parallel/similar routes - the obsession with using those remains.
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 10, 2019, 12:43:21 PM
You could argue these changes aren't that radical, there are few new numbers/routes from the current set-up. What seems to be happening is just the breaking of old/establishing new cross-city links - probably for operator convenience, dealing with increased traffic conditions etc. Will many people from Allesley Park want to go to Stoke Aldermoor, Binley and so-on, I doubt they'll be many (save for a few wanting to get to the Hospital).
I note there is no 23A - suggesting the City - Warwickshire Shopping Park/UHCW service will use one direct route (with no split in the Humber Rd area) I wonder which route it will take? - I can feel some moaning coming along from those roads that will miss out. There is still a plan to divert the 4 through Britannia Street so it can serve Hillfields?
The Councillor for the Allesley Park area has confirmed the new 23 service will provide links to Coventry University, Blue Coat School, Stoke Aldermoor and WSP/UHCW, operating to a 12 minute daytime frequency to WSP and hourly to UHCW.
Quote from: JPC on August 15, 2019, 05:17:32 PM
The Councillor for the Allesley Park area has confirmed the new 23 service will provide links to Coventry University, Blue Coat School, Stoke Aldermoor and WSP/UHCW, operating to a 12 minute daytime frequency to WSP and hourly to UHCW.
That sounds like that Bally Singh chap. A 12 mins frequency isn't much different from the current I suppose. But it'll be a long route all-told, will it be any more reliable for the residents of Allesley Park? Might it be quicker for those in that area, to get off in town and grab another service to the Hospital (rather than face a long and winding route via Stoke/Stoke Aldermoor et-al).
So no service at all for Aldermoor Lane, Bolingbroke Rd and those two bus stops on the northern section of Humber Rd? (that's at least 3 bus shelters being made redundant).
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 15, 2019, 05:36:18 PM
That sounds like that Bally Singh chap. A 12 mins frequency isn't much different from the current I suppose. But it'll be a long route all-told, will it be any more reliable for the residents of Allesley Park? Might it be quicker for those in that area, to get off in town and grab another service to the Hospital (rather than face a long and winding route via Stoke/Stoke Aldermoor et-al).
So no service at all for Aldermoor Lane, Bolingbroke Rd and those two bus stops on the northern section of Humber Rd? (that's at least 3 bus shelters being made redundant).
Bally it certainly was!, only key points along the route were highlighted - the exact route between Blue Coat School and The Moorfield remains unclear but I will hope it'll go via the traditional Bolingbroke Road - in the hope that local residents still know how to park their vehicles properly.
Quote from: JPC on August 15, 2019, 05:51:45 PM
Bally it certainly was!, only key points along the route were highlighted - the exact route between Blue Coat School and The Moorfield remains unclear but I will hope it'll go via the traditional Bolingbroke Road - in the hope that local residents still know how to park their vehicles properly.
That's basically back to the old 3/4 route until a load of variations sprang up! If you are going to run every 12 mins, you may as well run it every 10 - but I bet it saves at least one bus on the PVR.
Do we have any more details on the truncated 5? - will it even go as far as the Everdon Rd/Holbrook Lane area.
Separately, looking in a bit more detail at the registration changes:
- the 11U is no more.
- while the 16/16A/16S becomes just the 16, being only the Keresley side, the 23 drops the 23A but keeps a 23S - so I presume that the 16S will just become the 23S, now that the old 23S is becoming the 57.
- the new 10 registration (Bell Green, WBP/Tile Hill South) includes a 10A and a 10S. The current 10A (school service) might be renumbered as the 10S, freeing the 10A up for some kind of variation of the route.
- the new 4 (Uni Hospital, WBP/Tile Hill South) includes a 4A too, so it looks like there'll be some sort of variation. I'd imagine that most 4 journeys will continue along the old 18 route (given the reference in the consultation to a frequency increase and a direct uni hospital link), but it's still not immediately clear what's happening with the Tile Hill leg of the 5 and the ex-18A all-day WBP service - they could be part of any of the 4A, the 10, or the 10A.
Oh, and the old 19 should be in there too somewhere.
Spoke seconds too soon, the 19 is becoming the 4A...
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C004A22919.pdf
Okay, some new timetables are online!
3 3A https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C003C03A22919.pdf
4 https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C00422919.pdf
4A see last post
5 7 https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C005C00722919.pdf
New 6 timetable https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C006C0006AC006S22919.pdf
A few observations:
- the 5 is still going to Arena Park every 30 minutes on weekdays! In the peak, though, the 5 goes to every 20m, and only every other bus goes beyond Burnaby Road. No service to/from Arena Park before about 7am and after about 8pm.
- the 7 is every 30m during the day, then every 20m during the peak.
- 5/7 every 20m combined on Sundays, one to Brownshill Green, one to Arena Park, one to Burnaby Road.
- the 4 is every 15m throughout the whole route, which is a doubling of frequency on the old 18 route. Every 30m in the evenings and on Sundays on the Uni Hospital half, only hourly on the Tile Hill half.
- the 4 (18) has lost timing points at Village Hotel and Bradney Green.
- the 4A is the old 19, timings appear to be nearly identical.
- the 3/3A is every 10m combined, which is the same as the old 23/23A frequency but sees the Arena Park half of the old 4 go from every 15 to every 10 minutes. Combined half-hourly on evenings and Sundays.
- I can't see any major changes to the 6/6A.
Quote from: highland on August 15, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Okay, some new timetables are online!
3 3A https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C003C03A22919.pdf
4 https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C00422919.pdf
4A see last post
5 7 https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C005C00722919.pdf
With the number 2 being 'free' - suppose it could have been 2/3 rather than 3/3A. We've had that combination there before.
Quote from: highland on August 15, 2019, 06:57:43 PM
A few observations:
- the 5 is still going to Arena Park every 30 minutes on weekdays! In the peak, though, the 5 goes to every 20m, and only every other bus goes beyond Burnaby Road. No service to/from Arena Park before about 7am and after about 8pm.
- the 7 is every 30m during the day, then every 20m during the peak.
- 5/7 every 20m combined on Sundays, one to Brownshill Green, one to Arena Park, one to Burnaby Road.
- the 4 is every 15m throughout the whole route, which is a doubling of frequency on the old 18 route. Every 30m in the evenings and on Sundays on the Uni Hospital half, only hourly on the Tile Hill half.
- the 4 (18) has lost timing points at Village Hotel and Bradney Green.
- the 4A is the old 19, timings appear to be nearly identical.
- the 3/3A is every 10m combined, which is the same as the old 23/23A frequency but sees the Arena Park half of the old 4 go from every 15 to every 10 minutes. Combined half-hourly on evenings and Sundays.
- I can't see any major changes to the 6/6A.
We don't know the actual terminal point for these 'shortened' Radford 5 journeys - a loop around Everdon Rd and back again?
Given the 10/10A is registered to Tile Hill and Westwood Business Park, I reckon one is the Earlsdon ex-5 and the other is the all day WBP, with both continuing in the other direction to Bell Green, maintaining the 15m frequency there.
From the timetable, the timing point to city is at 'Holbrooks Lane' at the timing point to Arena Park is at 'Burnaby Lane', so it looks like the 5 will end at the 'Burnaby Road' stop on Holbrooks lane, round the roundabout, and start at the 'Holbrooks Lane' bus stop on Burnaby Road.
Quote from: highland on August 15, 2019, 07:42:09 PM
From the timetable, the timing point to city is at 'Holbrooks Lane' at the timing point to Arena Park is at 'Burnaby Lane', so it looks like the 5 will end at the 'Burnaby Road' stop on Holbrooks lane, round the roundabout, and start at the 'Holbrooks Lane' bus stop on Burnaby Road.
This will become clear when timetables are published on Traveline. Just from the number of guesses made about routes it shows how useful roads served information was on timetables.
Quote from: JoNi on August 15, 2019, 07:47:25 PM
This will become clear when timetables are published on Traveline. Just from the number of guesses made about routes it shows how useful roads served information was on timetables.
Those online NXC timetables don't actually list all the roads served - although in this case you can probably work most of it out. Although not all 5 journeys will go through to the Arena Park - a reasonable service/frequency has been maintained on that side of the city it seems; for a moment I had visions of Everdon Rd/Lythalls Lane getting nothing.
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 15, 2019, 08:22:10 PM
Those online NXC timetables don't actually list all the roads served - although in this case you can probably work most of it out. Although not all 5 journeys will go through to the Arena Park - a reasonable service/frequency has been maintained on that side of the city it seems; for a moment I had visions of Everdon Rd/Lythalls Lane getting nothing.
I was thinking about whether the 3/3A serves Eagle Street
8 8A https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C008C008AC008A22919.pdf
9 9A https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C009C009AC009S22919.pdf
10 10A 10S https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C0010C010AC010S22919.pdf
11 https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C001122919.pdf
12X https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C012X22919.pdf
Things to note:
- 8 8A no longer serve the railway station, as suggested in the consultation, but instead go to Eastern Green on the old 10 route, maintaining the same 15m frequency there.
- 10: Bell Green - Coventry - Earlsdon - Tile Hill South (i.e. the old 5), still every 30m.
- 10A: Bell Green - Coventry - Cannon Park - Prior Deram Walk - Westwood Business Park (i.e. the old 18A), still every 30m.
- in the evening and on Sundays, the 10 goes to every 30 minutes on the Bell Green side, with one bus an hour continuing to Canley Station, as per the current 5.
- the current 10A becomes the 10S.
- the frequency of the 11 has increased from every 20 to every 15 minutes. The 11U is no more, and instead morning/afternoon short journeys are just stated on the timetable as being term time only.
- the 12X is still advertised as being 'at frequent intervals', so probably stays the same at every 10 minutes.
The 13 timetable is now online, too: https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2019-Timetables/22nd-Sept-2019-COV/C0013C0013A22919.pdf
Quote from: JoNi on August 16, 2019, 08:48:12 AM
I was thinking about whether the 3/3A serves Eagle Street
We're still not totally clear of the routing of the 23 on the eastern side of the city - Sunbeam Way or is it via Aldermoor Lane/Bolingbroke Road? Presumably the 4 diverted via Hillfields negates the need to run a new '23A' (what was the 16A). There was talk of running into the new housing estate near Terry Rd/Humber Rd in the consultation, but I've heard nothing more on that.
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/information/service-changes/coventry-service-changes-from-22nd-september-2019
Quote from: JPC on August 16, 2019, 02:21:02 PM
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/information/service-changes/coventry-service-changes-from-22nd-september-2019
That just about tells us what we need to know - pretty-much as expected from a brief glance. And the 23 will, more or less, run to the old 3/4 routing in the Stoke area.
It does seem Oxford Street in Hillfields has lost its service - but that only equates to one bus stop on each side and it appears the 3/3A is running via Eagle Street etc to get to Foleshill Rd (so another return to service 3 & 4 of old). Sunbeam Way will be bus-less - but nothing actually stopped on that anyway.
Looks likely the 10 in the evening interworks with 23.
Quote from: JoNi on August 16, 2019, 05:47:45 PM
Looks likely the 10 shorts in the evening interwork with 23.
I wonder how long that 23 will run in that form!? Its a long way from University Hospital/Binley to Allesley Park and don't forget Councillor Bally Singh rallying the troops if things start getting unreliable over on the Allesley Park side. They've been tinkering with that service for some time now (2/3/3a, 2/3 & 23 then 23/23a) how long will this attempt last!
Just looking through the changes again - is there a direct replacement for the 8/8A City to Rail Station segment ? (I can't see one unless I'm missing the obvious). Will another service heading to the south or west side of the city be diverted to serve the Rail Station Bus Hub (realistically the 10 or 10a). Or is it felt the 9/9A, 11/12X provide adequate coverage. There has been a City Centre - Rail Station service since the late 60s with the introduction of the 25, later 17/27 (reduced to just 27 much later on) & then of-course the 8/8A.
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 17, 2019, 08:46:42 PM
Just looking through the changes again - is there a direct replacement for the 8/8A City to Rail Station segment ? (I can't see one unless I'm missing the obvious). Will another service heading to the south or west side of the city be diverted to serve the Rail Station Bus Hub (realistically the 10 or 10a). Or is it felt the 9/9A, 11/12X provide adequate coverage. There has been a City Centre - Rail Station service since the late 60s with the introduction of the 25, later 17/27 (reduced to just 27 much later on) & then of-course the 8/8A.
The 12x alone is as frequent as the 25 ever was without the 9 and 11
Quote from: Tony on August 17, 2019, 08:53:01 PM
The 12x alone is as frequent as the 25 ever was without the 9 and 11
There should be perfectly adequate coverage from those services (in fact the 11 will be enhanced slightly). I guess some of the current 8/8A users to the station will migrate to the 9/9A - which they probably use already.
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 17, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
There should be perfectly adequate coverage from those services (in fact the 11 will be enhanced slightly). I guess some of the current 8/8A users to the station will migrate to the 9/9A - which they probably use already.
Many people travelling to the station from town catch the bus at convenient stop behind Primark, some passengers even campaigned for a shelter there.
I assumed the 9 and 11would provide a 7/8 minute service but its actually 4 and 11 in the peak. The 10/A will be useless because the walkway from the station to Warwick Road was closed last week in preparation for building works. I assume the 10/A arent going to serve the station as it isn't mentioned on the timetable.
Quote from: JoNi on August 17, 2019, 09:26:34 PM
Many people travelling to the station from town catch the bus at convenient stop behind Primark, some passengers even campaigned for a shelter there.
I assumed the 9 and 11would provide a 7/8 minute service but its actually 4 and 11 in the peak. The 10/A will be useless because the walkway from the station to Warwick Road was closed last week in preparation for building works. I assume the 10/A arent going to serve the station as it isn't mentioned on the timetable.
This might well be the first time there hasn't been a direct city centre terminating at the Rail Station service since 1967 (unless one existed before then). The 25 was launched by Coventry Transport around that time. For users at the station travelling inbound its simply a case of jumping on the next bus to town (being careful not to go the other way on the 9/9A, 11/12X more recently!). But for many passengers in town it was grab the bus with 'Railway Station' on the front of it - that won't actually exist from 22/9/19. But they'll still be good coverage here.
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 17, 2019, 10:34:09 PM
This might well be the first time there hasn't been a direct city centre terminating at the Rail Station service since 1967 (unless one existed before then). The 25 was launched by Coventry Transport around that time. For users at the station travelling inbound its simply a case of jumping on the next bus to town (being careful not to go the other way on the 9/9A, 11/12X more recently!). But for many passengers in town it was grab the bus with 'Railway Station' on the front of it - that won't actually exist from 22/9/19. But they'll still be good coverage here.
Yep, the 25 ran to a 10 min freq. and could regularly get to PM in 7 mins or less via Hertford St. Sometimes it can now be quicker to walk rather than wait for a bus that then goes on a circular route around the town centre to get to PM. Is that progress? One for the council.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on August 18, 2019, 08:04:26 AM
Yep, the 25 ran to a 10 min freq. and could regularly get to PM in 7 mins or less via Hertford St. Sometimes it can now be quicker to walk rather than wait for a bus that then goes on a circular route around the town centre to get to PM. Is that progress? One for the council.
The role of the bus in the Coventry is one for the council!
A report in a 'local rag' (https://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/major-changes-to-bus-routes-and-timetables-in-coventry-and-warwickshire/) indicates the route to/from Fenside (3/3A) has been put on hold from serving the Rail Station (and Corporation St both directions?) until NX can assess the completion of a amended road layout at the Rail Station - so maybe the start of next year if we're lucky.
Quote from: JPC on August 20, 2019, 06:58:18 PM
A report in a 'local rag' (https://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/major-changes-to-bus-routes-and-timetables-in-coventry-and-warwickshire/) indicates the route to/from Fenside (3/3A) has been put on hold from serving the Rail Station (and Corporation St both directions?) until NX can assess the completion of a amended road layout at the Rail Station - so maybe the start of next year if we're lucky.
The Commercial Director's comments in this rag regarding the route of the 11 in the City Centre dont seem to match up with those of the bod who wrote the detail of the changes on the web stating it was going outbound via Corporation Street!
Quote from: JoNi on August 20, 2019, 08:21:32 PM
The Commercial Director's comments in this rag regarding the route of the 11 in the City Centre dont seem to match up with those of the bod who wrote the detail of the changes on the web stating it was going outbound via Corporation Street!
To be fair the article does state 'from the rail station to Pool Meadow' and the 11 is staying the same in that direction, but outbounds via Corporation St would be half-heartedly replacing the 8/8A, it's still an utter mess and not simple for average Joe.
Was the actual immediate plan to run the 3/3A via the Rail Station? I assumed it wasn't, just using the outbound 23/23A route to reach Fenside, with the 9/9A, 11/12X looking after Rail Station passengers. I still think the City - Rail Station link will be missed - passengers having instead to use services that travel well beyond the station, albeit they do enter the station hub itself.
Quote from: JPC on August 20, 2019, 09:12:30 PM
To be fair the article does state 'from the rail station to Pool Meadow' and the 11 is staying the same in that direction, but outbounds via Corporation St would be half-heartedly replacing the 8/8A, it's still an utter mess and not simple for average Joe.
Some comments in press releases are very amusing such as the reducing the headway of 23 improves reliability when it is the running time and layover resilance that facilitates reliability!
Quote from: paulb1973 on August 20, 2019, 10:18:18 PM
Was the actual immediate plan to run the 3/3A via the Rail Station? I assumed it wasn't, just using the outbound 23/23A route to reach Fenside, with the 9/9A, 11/12X looking after Rail Station passengers. I still think the City - Rail Station link will be missed - passengers having instead to use services that travel well beyond the station, albeit they do enter the station hub itself.
In the consultation they had indicated they were considering serving the Rail Station on both the current 4 and 23/23A services. I suppose in the interim they'll be looking at how well the 3/3A performs and if it'll have enough time to reliably operate via the Rail Station.
Timetables now on Traveline, indicating a few tweaks in the city centre stopping arrangements including..
13/13A/16 to Whitmore Pk/Keresley will park at the shelter in the Burges,
3/3A coming in from Holbrooks will (à la 16A) fly past Pool Meadow but doesn't stop anywhere near it,
4/4A/8/8A/10 will not stop inbound on Croft Rd but will instead stop around the corner on Queen Victoria Rd.
Over on the way to Tanyard Farm is the 6/6A not stopping at Sainsbury's on Herald Avenue (which will cause a load of moans) or is that a mistake again? (which has happened before here).
The route map they uploaded showed all 6/6A services going along Tile Hill Lane, and not serving Herald Avenue, which I assumed was either a mistake or easier than trying to depict something similar to what the current 5 does towards Tile Hill. Apparently not, then. While passengers from stops towards the city at least have the 4 and 11 running more frequently to Sainsbury's, pretty rubbish for anyone hoping to get back to Tile Hill. It can't be that much quicker either via Tile Hill Lane, can it? Besides the obvious point that you'd carry fewer passengers, which seems to defeat the point of a bus company. Baffling.
On a separate note, it looks like the 11 will go via Quadrant to Pool Meadow and via Burges/Corp Street to Leamington. I thought they were reducing the number of buses that took different routes through the centre in opposite directions? I opposed the rerouting but if they're going to go via Corporation Street at least run it both ways! Again, baffling.
Traveline reveals the allegedly frequent service for dudes in Keresley is only every 10 minutes.
My perception of a frequent service service is every 7-8 Mins with turn and go every 3-4 minutes or less, probably comes from frequent use of the Victoria line where even the every 10 minute Nightube service has advertised departure times!
Quote from: JoNi on August 30, 2019, 12:18:55 PM
Traveline reveals the allegedly frequent service for dudes in Keresley is only every 10 minutes.
My perception of a frequent service service is every 7-8 Mins with turn and go every 3-4 minutes or less, probably comes from frequent use of the Victoria line where even the every 10 minute Nightube service has advertised departure times!
I must admit when something is advertised as at 'frequent intervals' - I take that to be less than 10 mins frequency, I'm surprised there aren't more services timetabled like that then! (would cut out those 'my bus didn't turn up at the specified time' type of complaints).
Re. Tile Hill Lane/Herald Ave and the 6/6A - why don't they run all services along Herald Ave past Sainsbury's?! I assumed once Herald Avenue was completed some years ago now all bus services would run that way in both directions, but obviously not.
The traffic commissioner sets the definition of a frequent service as every 10 minutes or less. You'll see that 12X, 13 and 21 timetables are described this way too.
Quote from: highland on August 30, 2019, 04:55:34 PM
The traffic commissioner sets the definition of a frequent service as every 10 minutes or less. You'll see that 12X, 13 and 21 timetables are described this way too.
TfWM still want a full timetable registered to make the realtime etc work properly
Quote from: highland on August 30, 2019, 04:55:34 PM
The traffic commissioner sets the definition of a frequent service as every 10 minutes or less. You'll see that 12X, 13 and 21 timetables are described this way too.
I should have phoned a friend who's swotting up on this stuff.
Those familiar with Coventry's buses know they ran perfectly well for many years with timing points only at outer terminals and the city centre, places where adequate layover existed for more than one vehicle to stand.
You only have to compare the current City Centre bus map with one from 1985 to realise how many access points for buses that like many cities have been lost to taxis and public realm!
Written while standing at a bus stop served by a 10 minute headway with a familiar number showing departure times and claiming to be turn up and go!
Quote from: JoNi on August 30, 2019, 07:15:54 PM
I should have phoned a friend who's swotting up on this stuff.
Those familiar with Coventry's buses know they ran perfectly well for many years with timing points only at outer terminals and the city centre, places where adequate layover existed for more than one vehicle to stand.
You only have to compare the current City Centre bus map with one from 1985 to realise how many access points for buses that like many cities have been lost to taxis and public realm!
Written while standing at a bus stop served by a 10 minute headway with a familiar number showing departure times and claiming to be turn up and go!
Try registering a service with only timing points at either end and it will be thrown out as unacceptable.
Even in the times you refer to they were not as simple as you state. Drivers & conductors were issued with instruction on how long they got between various timing points along the route.
Quote from: Tony on August 30, 2019, 07:35:16 PM
Try registering a service with only timing points at either end and it will be thrown out as unacceptable.
Even in the times you refer to they were not as simple as you state. Drivers & conductors were issued with instruction on how long they got between various timing points along the route.
I accept times have changed re registering of bus service timing points.
Certainly I remember 32/33 catching each other up in Pool Meadow Bus Station on 15 minute combined headways in evenings and on Sundays.
Quote from: JoNi on August 30, 2019, 08:29:09 PM
I accept times have changed re registering of bus service timing points.
Certainly I remember 32/33 catching each other up in Pool Meadow Bus Station on 15 minute combined headways in evenings and on Sundays.
And you complain about service reliability now?
Quote from: JPC on August 29, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
Timetables now on Traveline, indicating a few tweaks in the city centre stopping arrangements including..
13/13A/16 to Whitmore Pk/Keresley will park at the shelter in the Burges,
3/3A coming in from Holbrooks will (à la 16A) fly past Pool Meadow but doesn't stop anywhere near it,
4/4A/8/8A/10 will not stop inbound on Croft Rd but will instead stop around the corner on Queen Victoria Rd.
Over on the way to Tanyard Farm is the 6/6A not stopping at Sainsbury's on Herald Avenue (which will cause a load of moans) or is that a mistake again? (which has happened before here).
Something seems to have happened to the 6/A on evenings and Sundays with 6 going to Victoria Farm and 6A to Little Heath setting off via the currect routes from Tanyard Farm but on the opposite half hour from the existing timetable!
Quote from: Tony on August 30, 2019, 08:41:53 PM
And you complain about service reliability now?
If I recollect the last time I made a complaint to NX about a number 9 bus not running from Leasowes on a 30 minute headway I didn't even get a reply.
The logic is simple
Poor performance is poor management and
Poor management is poor leadership!
Spotted two chaps on 16 Sept on Keresley Rd replacing the plate on a bus stop there, showing 16, 735 etc. But on Humber Rd the two stops quite close to Bolingbroke Road currently used by the 16A [but not for much longer] now show '735 towards Binley' - the 735 doesn't run anywhere near there does it?! Is there another service 735. A new outbound stop has appeared on the same road between Terry Rd and the aforementioned Bolingbroke Rd (the section used by the old 3/4 for many years).
The 735 (Coventry-Ansley) has a.m/p.m journeys which extend on school days between Pool Meadow and Blue Coat school serving stops on Humber Rd, Sky Blue Way, Gosford St, Cox St and Fairfax St baths.
Quote from: JPC on September 17, 2019, 10:37:17 PM
The 735 (Coventry-Ansley) has a.m/p.m journeys which extend on school days between Pool Meadow and Blue Coat school serving stops on Humber Rd, Sky Blue Way, Gosford St, Cox St and Fairfax St baths.
Gotcha, that would explain it, the Traveline website wasn't showing that bit. I can't imagine those two stops are going to see much use! - but it saves removing them I suppose.
A request for someone to obtain a 4 timetable from the Travel Centre was met with it gone back to be reprinted due to mistakes!
The stops on the Sunday section were printed in reverse order on the University Hospital - Tile Hill section.
Quote from: Lukeeee2018 on September 18, 2019, 03:53:53 PM
The stops on the Sunday section were printed in reverse order on the University Hospital - Tile Hill section.
Thanks, There is a correct timetable of different format on the NXC website appears to be a duplication of effort in an era of the Alliance.
First impressions of weekday
3/A E200
4 B7
5 B7
23 DD gemini
I drove along Lythalls Lane earlier Monday - seems all the bus stops there are showing 'Not in Use' Is that correct? The 5 still runs that way albeit on a reduced frequency. On a similar subject the two outbound bus shelters on Croft Rd; the one nearest Queen Victoria Rd is used solely by the 47 - while all the other services use the other shelter! That doesn't seem very sensible. A couple of other bus stops [poles] seem to have been rendered redundant in the city centre too.
Living on the 23 route; mainly Trident & Gemini double decks today displaying 'Binley via Coventry' when heading that way.
E200s have been rebranded in same format for 3/A including on the rear window that makes the bus dark inside. So similar didnt notice it had been changed.
The same with the 8's, Eastern Green and Whoberley have been added to the branding.
Quote from: Lukeeee2018 on September 23, 2019, 03:49:13 PM
The same with the 8's, Eastern Green and Whoberley have been added to the branding.
I'll look out for an 8, when bus companies change routes they usually change the branding so the route change is noticeable!
Quote from: Lukeeee2018 on September 23, 2019, 03:49:13 PM
The same with the 8's, Eastern Green and Whoberley have been added to the branding.
I've just caught 8 branded 4890 on 21 in Bell Green showing "Coventry via Whitley". I see they have stuck Eastern Green and Whoberley over the station. A garage run off creeping down Stoney Stanton Road at 15mph!
The X30 timetable has also been amended and seems thinned out in the afternoon evening peak. Reduction in service from what I can see. Diamond struggled with a regular 30 min service and TC have found the same problem. Not sure if this clashes with the contract for Ansty Park?
The route map on the inside the 11/12X route branded buses has had connecting routes updated too (for instance, at Canley Sainsbury's).
I've noticed that the 11s have been quiet since Sunday - perhaps the whole announcement system has been switched off until the new stops on Corporation Street are recorded.
Unsurprisingly, now the 4 is every 15m it had mostly single deckers yesterday, with one ALX400 on the circuit.
The 10/10A were mostly double deckers, which makes a change for the old 5 which mostly got single deckers before the change. I also fear the Canley/Tile Hill halves of the 4/10A are going to get a lot less reliable now they also go to the other side of Coventry. The 10A I was on lost a lot of time on the way to Westwood.
I took a trip on the 3/3A and was surprised at how many people from Arena Park/Holbrooks were hoping to use the old 4 to get all the way to the Hospital, especially given the relatively wide range of alternative and more direct routes, at least from Arena Park. The driver was very helpful to anyone who had a question.
Facebook users don't seem particularly happy with the changes, with some seeing it all as rather pointless (and I'm minded to agree), but of course the people who comment are a bit self-selecting as bus users ambivalent about the changes probably won't chip in. So, hard to tell how it's all being received as a whole.
Quote from: highland on September 24, 2019, 10:33:00 AM
The route map on the inside the 11/12X route branded buses has had connecting routes updated too (for instance, at Canley Sainsbury's).
I've noticed that the 11s have been quiet since Sunday - perhaps the whole announcement system has been switched off until the new stops on Corporation Street are recorded.
Unsurprisingly, now the 4 is every 15m it had mostly single deckers yesterday, with one ALX400 on the circuit.
The 10/10A were mostly double deckers, which makes a change for the old 5 which mostly got single deckers before the change. I also fear the Canley/Tile Hill halves of the 4/10A are going to get a lot less reliable now they also go to the other side of Coventry. The 10A I was on lost a lot of time on the way to Westwood.
I took a trip on the 3/3A and was surprised at how many people from Arena Park/Holbrooks were hoping to use the old 4 to get all the way to the Hospital, especially given the relatively wide range of alternative and more direct routes, at least from Arena Park. The driver was very helpful to anyone who had a question.
Facebook users don't seem particularly happy with the changes, with some seeing it all as rather pointless (and I'm minded to agree), but of course the people who comment are a bit self-selecting as bus users ambivalent about the changes probably won't chip in. So, hard to tell how it's all being received as a whole.
Isn't that what Transport Focus is supposed to be there for!
Quote from: Lukeeee2018 on September 23, 2019, 03:49:13 PM
The same with the 8's, Eastern Green and Whoberley have been added to the branding.
Very poorly (on the sides), I might add. Instead of reapplying side branding, or accurately placing the new branding over the old one, it's been poorly placed on top of the old one, completely out of line with the old branding, and I slightly different shade of maroon to the original branding
The revised displays on NX Coventry vehicles is not helpful or constructive. Vehicles now display "Coventry" or "via Coventry" which is meaningless. Most routes, whether cross city or terminus to city (centre), still operate within the Coventry boundary so "Coventry" or "via Coventry" as a destination is absurd. Whatever was wrong with "City Centre" or "via City Centre" which is a far more precise as a destination or intermediate stopping point? I note also that the same logic has invaded the printed timetables.
Quote from: sandboy20 on October 11, 2019, 01:02:44 PM
The revised displays on NX Coventry vehicles is not helpful or constructive. Vehicles now display "Coventry" or "via Coventry" which is meaningless. Most routes, whether cross city or terminus to city (centre), still operate within the Coventry boundary so "Coventry" or "via Coventry" as a destination is absurd. Whatever was wrong with "City Centre" or "via City Centre" which is a far more precise as a destination or intermediate stopping point? I note also that the same logic has invaded the printed timetables.
Exactly, it's very vague. Is it stopping at Pool Meadow or at the city centre. For me, buses that stop at Pool Meadow should say Coventry (Pool Meadow). It's the same with Birmingham bus routes. Birmingham for me it's doesn't make sense on its own, City Centre should be underneath it.
Quote from: Sh4318 on September 29, 2019, 06:29:21 PM
Very poorly (on the sides), I might add. Instead of reapplying side branding, or accurately placing the new branding over the old one, it's been poorly placed on top of the old one, completely out of line with the old branding, and I slightly different shade of maroon to the original branding
Maybe temporary until the buses are sky blued
Stop CU3 in town caught me out after the review. For years and years all buses stopped here including NXC 13 and SC 86. Now the 13 doesnt but the 86 does. Both also serve the stops either side.
Is there a reason? Just seems crazy to me?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on October 14, 2019, 06:15:49 PM
Stop CU3 in town caught me out after the review. For years and years all buses stopped here including NXC 13 and SC 86. Now the 13 doesnt but the 86 does. Both also serve the stops either side.
Is there a reason? Just seems crazy to me?
Traveline says the 86 serves CU3 but the City Centre guide (https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/media/3051/coventry-city-centre-20190922-web-version.pdf) thinks different,
I suppose the close proximity of the next stop in Gosford St CU1 is the reasoning... routes which turn right into Jordan Well uses CU3 and routes which turn left into Gosford St uses CU4 - apart from Stagecoach defying this.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on October 14, 2019, 06:15:49 PM
Stop CU3 in town caught me out after the review. For years and years all buses stopped here including NXC 13 and SC 86. Now the 13 doesnt but the 86 does. Both also serve the stops either side.
Is there a reason? Just seems crazy to me?
That sounds like the outbound bus stop on Cox Street nearest the Gosford St/Jordan Well/Whitefriars St crossroads. Not sure why the 13 isn't calling there!? But I notice stop 'VR1' (previously solely for the 21 to Willenhall on Queen Victoria Rd) is out of use. I don't think there is much using one of the inbound stops (either CR1 or CR2, a pole not a shelter) on Croft Road for that matter - even more curious is all the buses heading outbound on Croft Rd using stop CR4, with the occasional service 47 having adjacent stop CR3 all to its self!
The 10 to Tile Hill also randomly uses the stop at Primark TS5 instead of a stop in the Burges/Cross Cheaping such as BS6 making it rather awkward for anyone waiting who should have the option of getting on whichever route to Tile Hill etc. appears first.
Quote from: JPC on October 14, 2019, 08:43:01 PM
The 10 to Tile Hill also randomly uses the stop at Primark TS5 instead of a stop in the Burges/Cross Cheaping such as BS6 making it rather awkward for anyone waiting who should have the option of getting on whichever route to Tile Hill etc. appears first.
Service 10 goes with Service 11, both for Earlsdon.
Quote from: Adam 404 on October 14, 2019, 09:14:49 PM
Service 10 goes with Service 11, both for Earlsdon.
Ah OK, I suppose shorter journeys are prioritised/more valuble to the operator.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on October 14, 2019, 06:15:49 PM
Stop CU3 in town caught me out after the review. For years and years all buses stopped here including NXC 13 and SC 86. Now the 13 doesnt but the 86 does. Both also serve the stops either side.
Is there a reason? Just seems crazy to me?
Do you think that it is the bus stop managers in Birmingham who have made a mistake or is it due to with the bus companies wanting this. I just cannot see logic in it.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on October 15, 2019, 06:17:42 AM
Do you think that it is the bus stop managers in Birmingham who have made a mistake or is it due to with the bus companies wanting this. I just cannot see logic in it.
Especially as the x17 runs every 20 mins and 86 every 30mins and once an hour they depart on same minute. The council in its wisdom has installed a electric car charging point directly opposite where the 13 and 23 stop!
Quote from: JoNi on October 15, 2019, 05:22:53 PM
Especially as the x17 runs every 20 mins and 86 every 30mins and once an hour they depart on same minute. The council in its wisdom has installed a electric car charging point directly opposite where the 13 and 23 stop!
Is that the shelter on Hales Street? Has the 13 moved back one stop on that road? - I'm sure it used the bigger bus shelter further up, which did seem more sensible.
A few tweaks are going to occur on 1st March....
Amended timetable for services 4 and 23.
Service 6/6A is reverting back to run along Herald Avenue towards Tanyard Farm. ::)
No indication yet if the affected stop on Tile Hill Lane will be covered with the 10.
Quote from: JPC on January 22, 2020, 09:58:04 PM
A few tweaks are going to occur on 1st March....
Amended timetable for services 4 and 23.
Service 6/6A is reverting back to run along Herald Avenue towards Tanyard Farm. ::)
No indication yet if the affected stop on Tile Hill Lane will be covered with the 10.
Does the 6/6A use all of Tile Hill Lane (between Hearsall Common and the A45) in both directions currently? I think it does. It seems from 1/3/20 using that section of Tile Hill Lane inbound only.
Quote from: paulb1973 on January 22, 2020, 10:42:59 PM
Does the 6/6A use all of Tile Hill Lane (between Hearsall Common and the A45) in both directions currently? I think it does. It seems from 1/3/20 using that section of Tile Hill Lane inbound only.
Yes! - though alternatively Tanyard Farm bound journeys might still run as current to the Stewart Close stop on Tile Hill Lane then additionally serve the Herald Ave Sainsbury's stop, now that I've thought about it this option seems more likely - if the 10 isn't changing.
Quote from: JPC on January 22, 2020, 09:58:04 PM
A few tweaks are going to occur on 1st March....
Amended timetable for services 4 and 23.
Service 6/6A is reverting back to run along Herald Avenue towards Tanyard Farm. ::)
No indication yet if the affected stop on Tile Hill Lane will be covered with the 10.
any info on the 23 tt changes?
Quote from: JPC on January 22, 2020, 09:58:04 PM
A few tweaks are going to occur on 1st March....
Amended timetable for services 4 and 23.
Service 6/6A is reverting back to run along Herald Avenue towards Tanyard Farm. ::)
No indication yet if the affected stop on Tile Hill Lane will be covered with the 10.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on January 23, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
any info on the 23 tt changes?
No info as yet. Just out of interest how have you
@JPC heard of these changes?
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on January 23, 2020, 06:21:29 PM
No info as yet. Just out of interest how have you @JPC heard of these changes?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on January 23, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
any info on the 23 tt changes?
No further info other than what is seen here... https://bustimes.org/licences/PD0001111
VOSA registrations are aggregated to this site (a few days after appearing on the VOSA website) and it has a, sometimes useful, additional 'details' section - if you click through on the 6/6A you will see a summary saying it is 're-routed via Herald Avenue' etc.
Quote from: JPC on January 23, 2020, 07:11:55 PM
No further info other than what is seen here... https://bustimes.org/licences/PD0001111
VOSA registrations are aggregated to this site (a few days after appearing on the VOSA website) and it has a, sometimes useful, additional 'details' section - if you click through on the 6/6A you will see a summary saying it is 're-routed via Herald Avenue' etc.
Hi
@JPC I can see what you posted but as I've said befor on other threads the VOSA reg may not be correct or even the operator may change it at the last minume. So your post about tbe changes on the 1st March might not be correct. On the other hand they may be but you can't be sure. I know someone who runs another website that when changes are announced through VOSA he doesn't take that at face value and he waits for the official announcement if there is one. Obvious if there isn't he waits for the timetable to appear on the NX website or any other webiste before he casts his aspersions (meaning he doesn't update a timetable until he fiscally know the changes are going ahead).
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on January 23, 2020, 09:18:25 PM
Hi @JPC I can see what you posted but as I've said befor on other threads the VOSA reg may not be correct or even the operator may change it at the last minume. So your post about tbe changes on the 1st March might not be correct. On the other hand they may be but you can't be sure. I know someone who runs another website that when changes are announced through VOSA he doesn't take that at face value and he waits for the official announcement if there is one. Obvious if there isn't he waits for the timetable to appear on the NX website or any other webiste before he casts his aspersions (meaning he doesn't update a timetable until he fiscally know the changes are going ahead).
OK, most people on here will already know that, of course I should of referred where the infomation came from in the original post and add a 'take with a pinch of salt' warning. Hopefully I'll remember to do that if or when I make similar posts in the future.
Quote from: JPC on January 23, 2020, 10:39:22 PM
OK, most people on here will already know that, of course I should of referred where the infomation came from in the original post and add a 'take with a pinch of salt' warning. Hopefully I'll remember to do that if or when I make similar posts in the future.
Most times the VOSA for is correct but sometimes it can be incorrect. Maybe all the poster on here should post 'with a pinch of salt' when comenting on VOSA licensing when they post about them.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on January 23, 2020, 06:15:10 PM
any info on the 23 tt changes?
changes to 23 are to improve reliability due to traffic congestion.
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/information/service-changes/service-changes-from-2nd-march-2020
Same for the 4A 6 & 6A
Quote from: Sandy Lane on February 07, 2020, 10:21:23 PM
changes to 23 are to improve reliability due to traffic congestion.
https://nxbus.co.uk/coventry/information/service-changes/service-changes-from-2nd-march-2020
Same for the 4A 6 & 6A
So after one final big push with the 6/6A service proving to be fruitless the outbound stop by Stewart Close on Tile Hill Lane is finally being abandoned this time around. (Ref. Traveline Midlands website)
The 13 route is affected by traffic congestion on a MEGA scale yet nothing appears to be happening about it? I am hoping that Stagecoach come in and bring some competition back again on short 86 runs to Binley Woods.
Quote from: Sandy Lane on February 08, 2020, 08:17:14 AM
The 13 route is affected by traffic congestion on a MEGA scale yet nothing appears to be happening about it? I am hoping that Stagecoach come in and bring some competition back again on short 86 runs to Binley Woods.
Is that because stagecoach buses don't have to sit in traffic congestion
Tony, 13 is a cross city route and the Willenhall service gets really badly clagged up due to congestion on the Whitmore Park end. The 86 coming in from Rugby generally runs to time. I reckon the 13 Willehall should either be standalone or go to some other cross city destination - train station maybe?
Quote from: Sandy Lane on February 08, 2020, 02:35:25 PM
Tony, 13 is a cross city route and the Willenhall service gets really badly clagged up due to congestion on the Whitmore Park end. The 86 coming in from Rugby generally runs to time. I reckon the 13 Willehall should either be standalone or go to some other cross city destination - train station maybe?
Splitting cross-city services into individual routes is a poorer use of resources presumably and if the 13 was joined in some way to the Rail Station, is it very busy there too in the morning and evenings. That route might get delayed as well! I would have thought the 13 would get snarled up around Willenhall Lane & Brandon Rd as people travel to/from work at that nearby business park.