London Midland Trains

[Bob]

train from
Cannock cancelled, ruined me & my lil brothers night out to brum. Crap service! why couldnt they run a replacement bus?

[Tomjusttom]

Now you are talking complete crap. Every other train company's conductors come out in the evening. I have to check tickets in the evening. Are you saying all evening train services should be free?

No I am not talking crap. I'm just saying obviously LM have made a descion on forgoing that bit of revenue over guards safety.

All you need is good conflict avoidance training. If you walk along a train and someone says they are not paying you don't have to challenge them, you just report it or get assistance if you can. That is no excuse for not collecting fares from people willing to pay.

What is the conductor on the train for if he is not going to move from the back cab. Put a few mirrors up and make the line DOO like trains in the South East if all they are going to do is operate the doors, at least we wouldn't get this current farce because some someone on £26,000 a year was unavailable just to press a button to open the doors

A Gaurds role in importance:

Most Important:
Ensuring that access/egress to the train is safe.
The safety of the train.

Plus other Safety Critical duties.

After they have done all their duties then Revenue can be considered.

DOO is not worth the hastle it is causing down South. I'd rather have a guard on a train I am on as at least if there was an emergancy then an additional man would be able to help. Thats a downfall of DOO!

[andy]

i dissagree it is an inspectors job to INSPECT i by my train tickets when i could quite easily jump the train and as i often see people doing it and not getting copped, why should i couth up for someone not doing their job properly and then some jobsworth getting a kick out of exploiting thier companys failings

Perhaps you could tell that to London Midland who tell their conductors they do not have to come out of the back cab after a certain time in the afternoon, even on lines like mine which has unmanned stations. It is basically a free service between Walsall and Rugeley after 6pm. London Midland are gradually becoming one of the worst train operators of privatisation for customer service side of things.
Of course their twitter feed won the 'putting customers first' award so they think they are wonderful

They have to think about safety...or would you rather have a train cancelled due to a guard being injured by a potential yob?

Now you are talking complete crap. Every other train company's conductors come out in the evening. I have to check tickets in the evening. Are you saying all evening train services should be free?
All you need is good conflict avoidance training. If you walk along a train and someone says they are not paying you don't have to challenge them, you just report it or get assistance if you can. That is no excuse for not collecting fares from people willing to pay.

What is the conductor on the train for if he is not going to move from the back cab. Put a few mirrors up and make the line DOO like trains in the South East if all they are going to do is operate the doors, at least we wouldn't get this current farce because some someone on £26,000 a year was unavailable just to press a button to open the doors

Couldn't put it better myself.

[andy]

train from
Cannock cancelled, ruined me & my lil brothers night out to brum. Crap service! why couldnt they run a replacement bus?

They don't have to for a staff shortage, they will just get a fine. Judging by the amount of cancellations this week, a considerable one.

Anyway Bob, knowing your luck the rail replacement would have been operated by Arriva MPD's!

[Tony]

Now you are talking complete crap. Every other train company's conductors come out in the evening. I have to check tickets in the evening. Are you saying all evening train services should be free?

No I am not talking crap. I'm just saying obviously LM have made a descion on forgoing that bit of revenue over guards safety.

All you need is good conflict avoidance training. If you walk along a train and someone says they are not paying you don't have to challenge them, you just report it or get assistance if you can. That is no excuse for not collecting fares from people willing to pay.

What is the conductor on the train for if he is not going to move from the back cab. Put a few mirrors up and make the line DOO like trains in the South East if all they are going to do is operate the doors, at least we wouldn't get this current farce because some someone on £26,000 a year was unavailable just to press a button to open the doors

A Gaurds role in importance:

Most Important:
Ensuring that access/egress to the train is safe.
The safety of the train.

Plus other Safety Critical duties.

After they have done all their duties then Revenue can be considered.

DOO is not worth the hastle it is causing down South. I'd rather have a guard on a train I am on as at least if there was an emergancy then an additional man would be able to help. Thats a downfall of DOO!

I would rather have a conductor on the train than DOO, but the safety items you mention above don't take any longer at 7pm, than they do at 7am.

But what hassle is DOO causing down south? last Tuesday I went to watch England at Wembley, came back on the 22:18 Wembley Stadium to Birmingham Moor Street. Quite successfully DOO operated as far as Banbury, my ticket was checked before boarding the train. The driver managed to shut the doors despite hundreds of people on the platform and train. Could be because Chiltern are a proper company who can organise their staff rotas so that not only did every train run, they actually ran extras to move all the fans, and still collected all the fares

[andy]

I do feel a little for Go Ahead with the London Midland situation. I think they have done their best with it against the backdrop of a very unionised and militant environment and little staff flexibility. When you compare it to Southern and Southeast they have achieved far more there.  I can't understand how the old Central Trains employment conditions have survived so long, I don't think this situation crops up anywhere else? Even the new positions being advertised quote that Sunday working is 'as agreed' so they are still not able to employ staff who have to work Sundays. That can only be down to unions.

I also think Go Ahead are falling out of love with trains and will shift the emphasis to acquiring more bus operators over the next few years. To be fair they outperform most on that side of things and I wish they'd managed to stick with Diamond for a bit longer.

[D10]

Was the problem only on certain lines today? I was in Kidder for the Severn Valley's Gala weekend today and there was no problem, or maybe it was down to sheer luck!

[Tony]

Was the problem only on certain lines today? I was in Kidder for the Severn Valley's Gala weekend today and there was no problem, or maybe it was down to sheer luck!

It appears to be affecting conductors based at New Street and Wolverhampton only

[danny]

in response to my earlier post, a gaurd/conductor/inspector can operate the doors from any point in the train, and they know what job they sign up for, the points made on safety are ludicrus, its like saying to a NX inspector dont check tickets on a bus because someone might not like getting caught with an out of date bus pass ect,.thats why we have transport police on the system, and i have seen may such officers on train services of all hours, so "its to dangerious to work after 7" is no excuse in my opinion

[Isle of Stroma]

Could be because Chiltern are a proper company who can organise their staff rotas so that not only did every train run, they actually ran extras to move all the fans, and still collected all the fares

Whilst I agree in general that other TOCs could learn a lot from Chiltern, (At least) one of their Goldies needs immediate retraining on ticket validities & customer interaction. I do not appreciate said muppet loudly announcing "this ticket isn't valid here" when passing through Leamington Spa barriers with my Daughter. Fortunately, both I & his lesser ranking colleague knew better. I still didn't get an apology for the officious ignoramus upsetting my Daughter though....

I do feel a little for Go Ahead with the London Midland situation. I think they have done their best with it against the backdrop of a very unionised and militant environment and little staff flexibility. When you compare it to Southern and Southeast they have achieved far more there.  I can't understand how the old Central Trains employment conditions have survived so long, I don't think this situation crops up anywhere else? Even the new positions being advertised quote that Sunday working is 'as agreed' so they are still not able to employ staff who have to work Sundays. That can only be down to unions.

I say good luck to the Central Trains / London Midland staff that have somehow held on to their contracts. Both TOCs knew the score when they undertook the franchise, if they want to renegotiate, then it's up to them to come up with appropriate renumeration. Don't hold your breath - & don't blame the staff for standing up for their rights.

[andy]

I do feel a little for Go Ahead with the London Midland situation. I think they have done their best with it against the backdrop of a very unionised and militant environment and little staff flexibility. When you compare it to Southern and Southeast they have achieved far more there.  I can't understand how the old Central Trains employment conditions have survived so long, I don't think this situation crops up anywhere else? Even the new positions being advertised quote that Sunday working is 'as agreed' so they are still not able to employ staff who have to work Sundays. That can only be down to unions.

I say good luck to the Central Trains / London Midland staff that have somehow held on to their contracts. Both TOCs knew the score when they undertook the franchise, if they want to renegotiate, then it's up to them to come up with appropriate renumeration. Don't hold your breath - & don't blame the staff for standing up for their rights.

That's all very well, and I'm not taking sides atall, but in the end if LM can't recruit staff or end up losing the franchise these guys are only stuffing their own jobs up in the long term.  Whether it's the fault of the OC for not paying up and negotiating, or the fault of the Union for being a dinosaur, this situation is not fit for a 21st century train service. I have to use it everyday and suffer the continual disruption and confrontation and to be fair the attitude of most LM staff (barring the individual ticket offices in some cases) is absolutely appalling, they certainly don't engender the sympathy of their customers.

[Isle of Stroma]

That's all very well, and I'm not taking sides atall, but in the end if LM can't recruit staff or end up losing the franchise these guys are only stuffing their own jobs up in the long term.  Whether it's the fault of the OC for not paying up and negotiating, or the fault of the Union for being a dinosaur, this situation is not fit for a 21st century train service. I have to use it everyday and suffer the continual disruption and confrontation and to be fair the attitude of most LM staff (barring the individual ticket offices in some cases) is absolutely appalling, they certainly don't engender the sympathy of their customers.

Who says they can't recruit staff? There's a hell of a lot of people out of work. If London Midland fail (& they sure as hell deserve to), staff will transfer to whoever takes over. I'm glad you mentioned ticket offices, my local tends to be shut most times that i pass, wonder why that could be eh?

I'd say sorry to hear of your suffering - but then i've never voted tory. Maybe you'd be best served asking them why they've been making such a b@lls up of possibly the nations greatest asset for the last half a decade ?

[Bob]

I hope Labour Renationalise the bloody things theyve been S**T since privatisation like everything else! i cant wait for the street parties when Maggie kicks the bucket!

[vinh1000]

That's all very well, and I'm not taking sides atall, but in the end if LM can't recruit staff or end up losing the franchise these guys are only stuffing their own jobs up in the long term.  Whether it's the fault of the OC for not paying up and negotiating, or the fault of the Union for being a dinosaur, this situation is not fit for a 21st century train service. I have to use it everyday and suffer the continual disruption and confrontation and to be fair the attitude of most LM staff (barring the individual ticket offices in some cases) is absolutely appalling, they certainly don't engender the sympathy of their customers.

Who says they can't recruit staff? There's a hell of a lot of people out of work. If London Midland fail (& they sure as hell deserve to), staff will transfer to whoever takes over. I'm glad you mentioned ticket offices, my local tends to be shut most times that i pass, wonder why that could be eh?

I'd say sorry to hear of your suffering - but then i've never voted tory. Maybe you'd be best served asking them why they've been making such a b@lls up of possibly the nations greatest asset for the last half a decade ?

Agree
I had also my local ticket office tell me a lot of them are now short staffed and that LM are only opening them 2 days minimum per week

[D10]

Agree
I had also my local ticket office tell me a lot of them are now short staffed and that LM are only opening them 2 days minimum per week
[/quote]


And no doubt this will be one of the ticket offices that will be having its hours reduced because of lack of use. Welll it might be used if it was actually open!